The comments on that article are really missing the point that leveling a city block to kill a few terrorists almost invariably means you created more terrorists than you killed.
Unfortunately I'm not so sure they're missing the point. I'm afraid there's quite a few people who are just excited to see their scheduled genocide put into motion.
Far too many people seem to be itching to find an enemy, all so they can justify their desire for vindictive bloodlust.
Finding an enemy, anyone, to rally angry and hate-fueled people has been a solid political staple for at least the last decade or so. The only “new”-ish part is that a lot of people are dying as a direct result of that now.
The ultimate tragedy of the last few weeks is that the average Israeli will only be more radicalized against Palestine, while the average Palestinian will only be more radicalized against Israel. It's a perpetual cycle of anger and violence that has no end in sight, and I don't feel any hope for a better future for the region and the innocent people on either side of the conflict.
What should have happened, like yesterday, should be obvious to anyone with a brain and a heart: Hamas should free all of their hostages and turn over anybody who participated in the terrorist attack on Israeli civilians, and Israel should cease fire immediately, call all settlers back and return the Gaza borders back to what they were a month ago. Terrorism and genocide are inexcusable, and the simple fact is that both sides have the blood of the innocent on their hands, all because of the politics of greed.
We shouldn’t be.
The only solution to the region is a Palestine that is prosperous and free. So long as people have nothing to lose, they will continue laying down their lives.
Hamas wants “peace” in the form of a repressive Islamic state which is run by Sharia law. They are not friends to the Palestinian people. They are Iranian puppets.
Wow look at all those downvote for stating a fact. The pro-Israel crowd sure is sensitive when facts that don’t agree with their propaganda are mentioned.
Like in any war of occupation: the ever more militarized government of the occupier and the ever more militarized force of the occupied are objective allies.
The first thing that should have happened is the dethroning of Netanyahu. The fact the guy who let it happen is still in charge is by far the biggest cause of this.
They know this, that’s the point, they want a biting dog that you can euthanize instead of the calm golden lab everyone will be upset with you for putting down
In the past Israel beloved that. But the organization of Hamas has scared them. They believe that they need to destroy the Command and Control infrastructure Hamas has for its 40k person military or Hamas will simply organize followup slave raids.
Is this the only thing that troubles you? Hamas creates terrorists anyway. Palestinians are being told they need to kill Jews in order to become heroes, which will get them money they really need. It’s not much different from Russia where people are led by propaganda but ultimately decide to abandon peaceful life for a chance to get big money.
You prefer calling a truth you don’t like useless? Because it’s the truth that hamas will not be able to achieve its goals (kill all jews and destroy Israel) using what they have and receive as aid, even if they build tons of missiles they usually build. This is not how you “fight for freedom” because the freedom will never be the result of it. They need to change a lot in order to even try better. For example build defenses along with missiles for a change etc.
If you would otherwise vote Democratic and fail to vote for Biden over stupid shit like this, you will be electing someone who openly admits to wanting a purge program here:
Your choice is to vote for someone who supports Israel because he wants donations from the true believers, or through inaction, allow someone to get elected who actively says he will start rounding people up HERE. Immediately.
There is no choice. You don’t have to LIKE Biden. You don’t have to tell polls the truth about who you’re voting for. You don’t have to donate, and in fact I advise you do not and you tell the campaign exactly why.
But when it comes to the actual vote, no, you do not have a choice. It’s Biden or complete fucking anarchy.
‘my vote doesn’t matter’ is a self fulfilling prophecy. The more people actually believe that, the more they won’t go and vote and then indeed it doesn’t matter.
However if all the people that think that their vote doesn’t matter actually do go and vote, they would be a significant demographic.
It might not make a difference straight away, but thinks only happen if you invest in them.
Same thing with sports. If you support one team, it makes you more invested in the game itself. Your team might not win every time, but if you care only about winning you’re not a true supporter. It will make it easy more satisfying if you do win, though. And one day you will.
To add to this: if the opposition party consistently shows up to vote, the dominant party gets nervous, and has to focus on the chance of losing. Not showing up means they’ve truly won.
It also shows the opposition party that they can and should invest the time in supporting that area, because there’s people who haven’t given up yet.
Also, the president isn’t the only person on the ballot, and small races are where more radical third parties actually have a shot!
He’s technically correct. As long as the electoral college exists, many peoples votes effectively don’t matter because that state will always go one way. Once that occurs, the opposing votes are effectively erased.
Afaik the American special the electoral college votes for whatever the majority vote of that State is. So votes do count, towards that majority.
If everybody assumes that one party will win and doesn’t go to vote it will never change, if everybody who thinks that their vote doesn’t matter would do that, a change can happen.
Congressional, state and local elections are held at the same time on the same damn ballot and absolutely matter. They absolutely will affect you and congress is arguably just as important as potus. It’s called being engaged, instead just complaining while letting others take the wheel.
Except in actuality where with the electoral college in play, states that have as few electors as Rhode Island have a smaller number of EC votes than every margin of victory in the modern history of presidential elections. You could axe any one state with that few number of electors and you wouldn’t change a presidential result of the last century or more.
Okay? My point is that the electoral college means not every vote will count, and that is a system that only effects the presidential. So saying, and I quote from who I replied to “every vote matters” still isn’t telling the whole story as much as something like “every vote matters except the votes for president unless you live in specific places”
If your apathy opens the door to a Republican supermajority in your state legislature, then they can more easily a) strip rights from your friends and neighbors, b) assist in the ratification of amendments and calling of Constitutional Conventions, c) gerrymander away your power to influence Congress, d) remove your city’s ability to govern itself, among others. Down-ballot races can potentially affect all of us.
I think what you are saying is mostly true but also you do have a choice. If you can’t bring yourself to vote for Biden because of well founded reasons I don’t think it’s fair to judge because of that. All the centrists start screaming and losing their minds that they are going to lose because their candidate sucks and blame it on people who have specific, previously vocalized reasons for not wanting to vote for said candidate.
You aren’t the problem if you don’t want to vote for Biden because of his unwavering support for genocide. Yes the alternative is worse, but election after election you can’t just keep handing centrists your vote who don’t give a shit about you or your policies (and actively shit on you while loudly posturing that they aren’t like you at all). At some point you have to make the threat of withholding your vote a real one, there are always consequences to that especially for this election but at the same time nothing is really going to change if we keep handing centrist corporate democrats the reigns to power because this time is an emergency too (just like last time).
I recommend voting for Biden for similar reasons you brought up, but I also don’t think there is any shame to deciding you can’t bring yourself to vote for such a trash candidate and want to choose this election so support a third party. Bad timing? Yeah, but it isn’t the voters fault for not wanting to vote for someone that doesn’t represent them?
Yes the alternative is worse, but election after election you can’t just keep handing centrists your vote who don’t give a shit about you or your policies (and actively shit on you while loudly posturing that they aren’t like you at all). At some point you have to make the threat of withholding your vote a real one, there are always consequences to that especially for this election but at the same time nothing is really going to change if we keep handing centrist corporate democrats the reigns to power because this time is an emergency too (just like last time).
Here’s where you’re missing something fundamental. You’re taking as a given that a protest vote will meaningfully register with the Democratic Party, and they’ll chase you around to get your vote back. I’d offer that a significant reason major US parties have drifted rightward over the past 40 years is this. Conservatives skew older. Leftists skew younger. Young people simply don’t vote. Ergo conservatives have an outsized voice in the political sphere. When more leftists disengage, the conservative voice grows louder.
If you protest vote the Democratic Party, you’re just proving to them that they can’t count on your vote. If they can’t count on your vote, they have the option of scrambling to try to figure out what you want, or chasing voters whose support they can count on, and based on recent history that’ll probably result in more of a shift to the right. Because, at the end of the day, right-leaning voters have a weird fervor that leftists don’t share, and leftists disengage at the drop of a hat. If we’re being honest, that’s not a great group of people to have on your team if you’re trying to sustain political relevance.
I don’t think this sentiment is about protest. It’s about conscious. Many cannot consciously vote for a Zionist president complicit with genocide. Many may change their minds, it’s a year away, but many won’t. We can selfishly brow-beat them into voting for Biden. But in the end, it’s their choice.
We can selfishly brow-beat them into voting for Biden.
Shaming people into voting for your candidate doesn’t work, but Dems will do it anyway. It splits the left and helps Republicans, but they either aren’t aware of this or don’t care.
you will be electing someone who openly admits to wanting a purge program here:
Understood. You’re okay with that stuff happening in Palestine, but not the USA, because you live in the USA. Supporting tyranny abroad is a-okay because you don’t think it affects you.
There’s no way you could honestly interpret what I wrote that way. I’m responding to the fans of Joe who are openly saying “Who cares about genocide when Trump is worse?”
I do care about genocide, and that’s (one of many reasons) why I’ll be voting for Jill Stein, not Joe Biden.
If you’re not familiar, the US uses a two party system. Not voting is no different than voting for Jill. There’s no difference between not voting for Biden and voting for Trump.
Unfortunately, it’s not up to “the Democrats”, it’s up to the DNC and there is no way they will back anyone else unless Joe has a major medical event between now and election day.
Even if he did drop out, they would push Harris who is poison right now.
The problem is that, in a democracy, you have to vote for the best candidate. Otherwise, democracy doesn’t work. If you decide to vote for a candidate "you don’t like* (i.e. “strategic voting”), you are contributing to the problem.
People call it “voting for the lesser evil”, but a vote for a lesser evil…is still a vote for evil. So, while it isn’t as wrong as voting for Trump, it’s still wrong.
If there can only be 1 winner, and there are 2 frontrunners who have the only real chance of winning, a 3rd competitor only takes votes from a frontrunner and has no chance of winning themselves.
As someone like Stein is mentioned as an alternative to voting for trump, therefore the person was never a trump voter, they were never going to ADD to Trump’s chances. Their only voting action is to either vote for Biden, or NOT* vote. By NOT* I mean not contribute to bidens vote totals.
Voting for stein is effectively a non republican voter staying home.
This is a major problem with our voting system, there can only ever be 2 realistic choices, and a third party vote has greater game theory implications than independent voters like to accept.
every vote must be earned. so-called “third parties” dont take votes from other parties: they earn them from voters.
Voting for stein is effectively a non republican voter staying home.
for a party who believes they deserve every non-republican vote. but in the elections offices across the country, it’s effectively a vote for Jill Stein.
Let’s be clear: I’m condescending you, because you have a childish understanding and engagement with presidential elections.
Not because you choose to vote 3rd party, there’s nothing wrong with that.
But because you naively dodge the consequences of your voting choices.
Stand on whatever justification you like, but voting has consequences, and 3rd party votes are levers pulled against a competitive candidate. That’s it.
Basic understanding of game theory is not rhetoric.
a basic understanding of it would tell you it doesn’t dictate human actions, and people frequently make decisions that do not seem to be in their “rational self interest”
are you sure? biden wrote the crime bill and the patriot act and voted to fund every war he could. trump signed the first step act and didn’t start any new wars and he even doubled my unemployment payments. joe promised me 2k and gave me 1200.
and to think that either of them are even trying to be leftist is laughable.
i’m probably gonna vote for jill stein or cornel west. i guess it depends on whether west gets ballot access but there is some possibility jill can just win me over.
oh, you know what? maybe it’s the option of having my foot crushed or amputated. one isn’t quite as bad but neither is really something i’ll be choosing given any other choice.
Saying “both sides bad” has implied meaning. I’m only expanding on the words you said without changing anything. If you said, “The Earth orbits the Sun.” and I expanded that to explain Kepler’s laws, I’m not contradicting you or putting words in your mouth.
If you want to suggest details such as an example where Trump did good and Biden did bad on a particular policy, then please elaborate. Trump said Ukraine needs to surrender. Biden didn’t say Ukraine should surrender so they are both equally bad? Give me an example.
Trump said Ukraine should surrender. Biden said Ukraine shouldn’t surrender and the Republican controlled House of Representatives should help Ukraine. You group both as bad.
Good thing you do remember since he’s still ripping apart immigrant families. Biden’s border policy is only marginally better than Trumps, he just doesn’t brag about it.
Really? The first thing you do when seeing this is tell people to vote for Genocide Joe instead of saying “actually let’s try to get a third party going”.
"No guys we have to vote for Hitler, Stalin is way worse! ".
That’s not true either, it is simply that democracy is complex and messy. Vote in primaries, campaign for better candidates, and pay money to organizations that support the things that matter most to you.
There’s a whole Wikipedia page of dominant parties that reigned supreme as a duopoly in this country until a third party came along and dethroned them. What you just said shows a shocking ignorance of history. Vote whig.
There is a whole Wikipedia page showing changes in name. The function of the first past the post system means these are fundamentally the same constructs with different branding. If a party replaces democrats or republicans, then we will be back in the same place in an election cycle.
You’re doing way worse than throwing away your vote, you’re voting FOR genocide. If you and other Dem voters who want to feel good about yourself weren’t cowards and voted Green we wouldn’t be perpetuating a genocide in the first place.
Any vote is for genocide. You’re voting for either a self avowed zionist (Biden) a literal Nazi (Trump) or throwing away your vote to allow the literal Nazi to win.
No one voting Stein would ever vote Biden so that’s untrue. A tired old argument that’s lost it’s luster, just like all your arguments for voting for Biden.
Making it so Trump supporters can’t vote will definitely hinder his progress. How many died because they failed to take Covid protections? How many can’t vote because they are now Jan. 6 convicts?
You act like there was a non-genocide option. Once Hamas did that attack, there was no stopping the crazy right wing Israeli government from doing what they are doing.
So what? The US should take a hard line against Israel anyways, even if it does no good, right? Great, so Israel is removed from the US sphere of influence and goes shopping for a new sugar daddy. That would be China, or more likely Russia. Now Russia is chummy with both Israel and Iran, which has the inconvenient little side effect that the Palestinians will lose the support of Iran. But who cares about the Palestinians anyways.
Any hope the US had of restraining Israel in any way whatsoever is contingent on our continued support. Without that, we have no influence and someone else steps in.
I’m not claiming that Biden has handled this perfectly, but the general direction he has gone has been in the best interest of saving as many Palestinian lives as possible. There are no clean hands in foreign policy.
Yikes. Way to miss the point. I was laying out the unintended consequences of naive foreign policy, and your pointing to a list of people you think are naive enough to do it - and you seem to think that’s a good thing. Assuming you are right, they would be fucking over the Palestinians in order to be smugly pro-Palestine. Form over function and virtue signaling instead of getting to better outcomes are hallmarks of third party politics in this country.
The outcome of a policy isn’t irrelevant to a policy, it’s the whole point of the policy. I didn’t make a wild guess or rely on my own intuition. That scenario is one of several that foreign policy experts are warning against. The worst case is Iran getting actively involved, but that’s far less likely.
not really: eyewitness testimony is some of the worst we can ask for. you should ask carville, though, you don’t have to: he’s in the mini-doc i linked.
You could say the exact same thing for the exact same reasons about the US government. If you can’t fix a rotton organization, then any attempt at political action in the United States is a fools errand. Thankfully, you’re just talking out of your ass. We get it, you’re edgy.
Setting aside that you know nothing of my voting history, this is entirely irrelevant.
The Democratic party used to be what the Republicans are today. Eventually they became the party of FDR and the new deal. Now they are the party of Bill Clinton and third way neoliberal corporatism. Things change, and we can influence the direction of that change. Forcing Biden to the left has made him a better president than anyone on the left expected. He’s still not the president we want, but we shifted him in the right direction. The Democratic party as a whole is better now than it was 10 years ago.
Go ahead and piss on the progress that’s been made, but then be prepared to explain how third party movements have done any better.
Clever, but wrong. You actually get to choose between:
Continuing to give $600 million in annual aid to Gaza and diplomacy to try to get Israel to minimize civilian casualties while they understandably pursue Hamas terrorists, Or,
Fascism and complete disregard for civilian casualties.
Perhaps neither is to your taste, but there are stark differences in the two positions.
Yes, I know, actual rational policy-making is so boring. It is much less satisfying than over-simplified, one-sided memes. But, you know, that’s what adults do. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Democracy is when you get to choose between genocide over there OR genocide over there and right here too. Because you know damn well Trumps policy on Israel won’t be any different.
Go lick orange asshole elsewhere. Or did you forget when he tried to start a war with Iran by assassinating one of their generals on Iraqi land against the Iraqi government's wishes?
Look up how many Trump did that t- oh, wait, he revoked the rule implemented by Obama that demanded drone strike deaths be publicly reported, and outright ignored the legal demands to release the strikes, so you can't.
Fucking dumbass. Keep chowing on Great Orange's literal shit, and maybe he'll deign to grab you by the pussy too.
I’m not American. Trumps track record was a serious improvement for people hold that office, all you have to do is look at the facts and numbers, and ignore how unpleasant he was. I know, I know, Baracks class n charisma made everything seem OK when they were literally murdering a head of state to intentionally destabilize but it wasn’t
Clearly it hasn't stopped you from attaching your lips to Trump's asshole. "Just look at the numbers!" right after being shown that numbers are quite literally not available because of Trump's explicit reversal of previous policy. It's like those pig-fuckers saying "Read the transcript!", not realizing one of the first fucking lines of the document is saying that it's not a transcript. Just utter, brainless cocksucking for a STD-ridden loser.
If you’re going to seriously try to insist that there’s no homophobic subtext in “You have fun sucking off your orange messiah”, then you’re more dishonest than Trump himself.
Voting for fascism is also voting for genocide. You’re choices are a little genocide without fascism or a lot of genocide with fascism. I know what I’m choosing.
From a utilitarian point of view, it probably makes more sense to attempt to minimize suffering rather than opting out of the decision and thereby passively enable greater suffering.
But hey, it’s the trolley problem all over again, and people hate even thinking about that one.
What an inspiring message. Biden will win for sure if we all make just one lecturing, patronizing post each day. Bonus points if you can find someone who had family killed in Gaza! They need the most reminding that Trump is the real threat.
Sadly, I don’t live in a swing state so it doesn’t matter who I vote for. My vote, whether it be for Biden or a third party, is effectively a protest vote against the state’s electors voting for Trump. I can vote, not vote, vote for a third party; it really doesn’t matter.
Whatever happened to “vote blue no matter who” anyway?
Even though I belong to one political party, I personally always vote on a case-by-case basis, for the best person for the job/country, and not automatically for party.
Shit take. Fascism is never out of the picture and spouting “vote blue no matter who” only pushes the window closer to it. You’ll just say the same thing in 4 years when it’s Trump again or one of his many soundalikes vs another genocidal Zionist wearing a D by their name. Engaging with the 2 party system validates it and it will never be “healthy.”
Not sure what you mean, but it sounds like you just don’t care because it doesn’t affect your choice. I wonder how you will feel if one day your party’s candidate finally crosses your line
or how about we overthrow our shit govt instead of participating in this fucking circus act year after year. also this isnt stupid shit its a genocide you daft cunt
If you coerce/force someone to vote the way you want them to, then can you truly say we live in a free country?
There’s nothing stopping the Democrats from putting someone else up to run against Trump.
And don’t say no one else can be Trump, there’s a whole year still, and it’s going to be the undecided Centrists who decide who wins in any case, so you just need to put someone up that appeals to them mostly.
Nobody is going to tell the sitting president not to run again, that’s a decision he needs to come to all on his own, and if he doesn’t, the DNC will not oppose him.
Nobody is going to tell the sitting president not to run again
Actually if the warning signs were dire enough, the inner democratic party elites would push hard for it. Some are saying that the Cali Gov is already running a stealth run, being ready to jump in if Biden exits.
As a Cali native, Newsom would be worse than Biden. If he ran in a Democratic primary, he might lose California because Democrats here don’t like him that much. If the primary was between him and Biden, I would vote for Biden because he’s less elitist and has a better moral compass. Newsom honestly doesn’t seem to have serious principles beyond political success. He’s a distilled version of what people hate about Democrats.
As a Cali native, Newsom would be worse than Biden. If he ran in a Democratic primary, he might lose California because Democrats here don’t like him that much.
Actually he was doing a lot better until just recently when he started supporting Biden, basically pissing off Californians as he moves to the middle for a national race. But historically he’s had good (for a Governer) ratings.
The survey showed Newsom’s popularity has tumbled this year as he continues to amplify his national profile and campaign outside of the Golden State to support President Biden and attack Republican governors and their conservative political agendas.
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Newsom honestly doesn’t seem to have serious principles beyond political success
Yeah he does come off is being slick and opportunist, and I hate saying what I’m about to say, but at the same time he’s a politician. /shrug
The kind of person I’d like to vote for never seems to run for office.
Newsom hate isn’t new. There was genuine worry he was going to lose his recall election, replaced by a radical Republican with a plurality of support from only those that voted for his removal. Left wing Democrats who were critical of Newsom united and organized to prevent a fascist rising to power. We put aside our gripes with corpocrats to prevent someone even worse from winning.
California is guaranteed for the Democrats in the modern era, so we usually sit on the sidelines of the fight for the presidency and hope other states make the right call. However, the recall race showed that we were also willing to hold our nose and vote for the lesser of two evils.
That’s part of why I get so frustrated by the anti voting shit. Biden is more of a genuine human being than Newsom, yet people fall for accelerationist propaganda. They delude themselves into thinking that not voting will strengthen the left when the opposite is true. The unreliability of young, left wing voters reinforces the establishment bias of not appealing to them. If they won’t even turn out for Bernie in the 2020 primary, why rely on them?
The survey showed Newsom’s popularity has tumbled this year as he continues to amplify his national profile and campaign outside of the Golden State to support President Biden
Any governor in any state always gets some hate, but Newson popularity’s gone down allot just recently because of his support for Biden and his move towards the center for a possible national run.
There was genuine worry he was going to lose his recall election, replaced by a radical Republican with a plurality of support from only those that voted for his removal.
In California? Highly doubtful (the italicized part).
I was here, and I saw that the local news pushed that angle (probably for ratings) but the people in the streets weren’t really saying that.
They delude themselves into thinking that not voting will strengthen the left when the opposite is true.
I actually agree with this, but, I think the nation should come before ideology, and definitely for party. And at the end, you have to do what you think is right, not what is best for a particular organization.
Bottom line, I don’t believe Biden is physically and mentally able to hold the office for another four years. He should leave with the thanks of a grateful nation for steering us away from Trump, and not cling on for another four years.
Give me another Democrat to vote for, and I’ll happily do so, or a good/decent centrist Republican for that matter. The choices we have to choose from these days are horrible.
I get the physical part of Biden being unfit, but not the mental part. I’ve not seen any evidence of his age making him less intelligent or mentally. He’s not physically well, but whenever someone says he’s senile, I automatically assume they don’t know what they’re talking about. “Senile” is not synonymous with “out of touch.”
With the recall, concern wasn’t just coming from some rando or only Democratic partisans. I heard it from respected political scientists. They thought Newsom was likely to win, but there was still great risk of a Republican governor getting elected without popular support. It’s how Arnold Schwarzenegger, a moderate Republican, managed to get elected. The Governator never could have won a Republican primary, and didn’t even win the popular vote. If it weren’t for serious campaigning in the last few months, the recall could have been close.
Newsom always had majority approval, but the concern about the recall came because people were only lukewarm on him. He isn’t an exciting candidate, which is what the left claims to want. Like I said before, Biden seems more genuine about his morals and principles than Newsom. Newsom is more of what the left hates than Biden.
I get the physical part of Biden being unfit, but not the mental part. I’ve not seen any evidence of his age making him less intelligent or mentally.
The regular main news goes out of its way not to show him being in that state, for obvious reasons, but there are moments caught on camera. Not only because they help support him, but what it would mean for Americans and their worry factor if they thought their current president was incapable of doing the job.
He’s not physically well, but whenever someone says he’s senile, I automatically assume they don’t know what they’re talking about.
That’s honestly kind of insulting to say that, and it shows a lack of awareness on your own part. You’re making one hell of an assumption that people aren’t informed and that they’re making a diagnosis without putting any thought behind it.
“Senile” is not synonymous with “out of touch.”
Also, it’s not binary, we’re not talking about perfectly sane or completely senile, there’s a range in between, and there are moments of clarity, and moments of not clarity.
{Comments about Newson’s unpopularity.}
I’m not going to hash this out detail by detail, but just say that you and I must have lived in different California’s, because as a native, I didn’t see what you’re describing.
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There are other Democrats that could run against Trump and have a better chance of success.
Finally, there are literal medical tests that he could take that test for mental competence. If he took those tests from a trusted source, and passed them, then that would be good enough for me. It’s not the literal age, it’s the ‘mileage’, that’s the determining factor of capability.
That’s honestly kind of insulting to say that, and it shows a lack of awareness on your own part. You’re making one hell of an assumption that people aren’t informed and that they’re making a diagnosis without putting any thought behind it.
I’m not out of line in thinking that people can’t diagnose Joe Biden of being mentally unfit. People couldn’t definitively diagnose Trump with narcissistic personality disorder, and he didn’t have a known disorder that could interfere in a diagnosis. Biden has a well documented stutter, making it hard for any observer to parse his communication disorder from cognitive impairment.
People who are informed would recognize this, and even those willing to diagnose politicians from TV appearances would need solid examples of abnormal behavior that could only be explained by cognitive impairment. I don’t take armchair diagnosis seriously because I have some expertise in psychology. People want a reason to have someone other than Biden, so they assume mental disability can be determined by the public. I don’t think we can with the info available. Gut feelings will just reinforce your biases.
People who are informed would recognize this, and even those willing to diagnose politicians from TV appearances would need solid examples of abnormal behavior that could only be explained by cognitive impairment. I
I’m aware of that condition, I’ve heard/seen it before. Still, I’ve also seen other things.
You’re assuming they are mutually exclusive, that if you have a stutter, you can’t have mental cognizance problems, and that’s not true at all.
As I mentioned before, if he took a legal mental capacity test and passed it then that would alleviate my personal worries, but I don’t see that happening, at least I haven’t heard them speak of it.
It’s not centrists who decide elections by choosing a candidate, it’s the people fed up with the system who decide elections by choosing whether or not to show up for the vote.
It’s not centrists who decide elections by choosing a candidate, it’s the people fed up with the system who decide elections by choosing whether or not to show up for the vote.
Well I speaking towards from the pool of people who actually show up to vote, decide the vote. Not the no shows.
These days the two sides are ‘baked in’, so it’s going to be the undecided middle that decides.
I’m assuming that if the Democrats choose somebody else besides Biden, that the younger voters have more of a chance of showing up to vote, than with Biden.
No, it is never the middle that decides elections in the US. Democrats win when turnout is high, and Republicans win when turnout is low.
Know how AOC won her seat from Pelosi’s presumed successor who was considered unbeatable? She focused her campaign on unlikely voters. When she actually spoke to those people, they showed up to vote. That’s the path to victory for Democrats.
Hillary dominated with moderate voters in 2016. She was also an uninspiring elitist which led to terrible turnout. Biden wasn’t much better, but four years of Trump drove record breaking turnout,band Biden won.
It’s all about energy and engagement. Biden sure isn’t going to bring that next year, but maybe there is enough anti-Trump sentiment left to drive turnout. Of course Trump might not be the candidate. I think Biden might beat DeSantis, but not a slightly more obscure candidate like Nikki Haley.
You are right about the energy level scenario, but I wasn’t speaking towards that. I’m assuming that unless a candidate really screws up that everyone will come out to vote, since we’re very much in a party warish voting mode these days.
I was speaking about what the size and a large turnout vote, the people who are not already baked in for one party or another, always vote just for one party, and when there is a large turnout.
Basically everyone else, the centrists, those are rarely vote, those who literally jump back and forth and decide on a case by case basis based on the individual running in every election, etc.
America isn’t that free of a country. Democrats were always going to run their incumbent. The time to choose a left wing candidate was the 2020 primary, which is why I was devastated when Biden won. I knew we would be stuck with him for 8 fucking years. The left didn’t turn out enough in that primary, and the establishment went with one of the worst choices.
The fact that there isn’t some popular Democratic alternative at this point means it will not happen. Biden has been the most left wing president in over half a century, and none of his shitty decisions have been due to his age. Organize with the DSA or promote left wing Democrats if you’re fed up with the establishment. Recognize that becoming cynically apathetic makes you a pathetic asshole, not a person who’s better than those that try.
Eliyahu also voices his objection during the interview to allowing any humanitarian aid into Gaza, saying “we wouldn’t hand the Nazis humanitarian aid,”
The Nazis never had nukes or the backing of the United States. They didn’t have a state religion. They weren’t dispatching military assets to settle their neighboring territories. Zionism is worse than naziism.
They didn’t have a state religion, but not for lack of trying. Most of Germany was Christian in some way, and that was exploited by the Nazis, but they generally wanted their people to be Nazis first and anything else second. If Nazi Germany had continued, I’m sure Nazism would have been the state religion.
They weren’t dispatching military assets to settle their neighboring territories
So, what exactly would you call what they did during WW2? I'm with you on everything else you said, but this statement makes me think you know very little about history.
Netanyahu does not state that killing of civilians is his goal, nor does IDF purposely do that. Imagine the amount of civilian deaths if it were actually IDF’s goal, as it is for Hamas.
This is an important distinction in my opinion. Does the IDF care if they kill palestinian civilians? No. But they aren’t actively trying to murder as many palestinian civilians as they can either.
Seriously look at their actions and decide for yourself whether or not they are going out of their way to kill civilians or whether they are so careless they kill anyone on their way
The idea that the IDF would have to beat Gaza into a pulp so we can finally admit to ourselves that they don’t care about civilians is weak, not to mention a logical fallacy. This isn’t the indication to look for when war crimes happen. It’s the actions of the IDF themselves.
Maybe they just want plausible deniability more than they want immediate genocide. It sure looks to me like that’s what they’re doing, and that it’s working.
Just like every other piece of civilian infrastructure.
You say Jabalia like it hasn’t been a city since the 40s. It’s not some tent city. It’s a legitimate city that has been around for decades, which Hamas only took control of after 2007.
It’s not a refugee camp at all. It’s a city that has existed for almost a century.
You can cheer for Hamas. Your emojis don’t mean shit lol. Nobody else supports them. Even “the media” (you sound like my drug addicted religious dad here).
And the very fact that somehow bombing people taking refuge in a city rather than a refigee camp is something you needed to point out as though that changes anything … That’s very telling.
And lastly, Israel is losing the media war. 😊 It’s not sustainable to kill more people and get away with it, not when even holocaust historians are alarmed at the Israeli rhetoric and massacre it keeps committing on a daily basis.
It’s still a refugee camp. It houses refugees who have been displaced. Many Palestinian refugee camps are X number of years old because Israel has been ethnically cleansing them for decades. It doesn’t matter how you define it, no one “made shit up”, it’s classed as a refugee camp. The UN set it up as a camp, but here comes some random regular jackoff on lemmy trying to tell us otherwise.
The audacity of pro-Israelis in twisting all international definitions is beyond me.
Again, the very fact that it’s been a refugee camp for decades where people have shitty living conditions makes this bombing that Israel did worse, not better.
The people living in that camp were done dirty by the 1949 armistice, don’t get me wrong. But it’s been 75 years; they need to move on.
Palestinians are literally the only refugees on the planet who pass down refugee status to their children. That’s based on the definition that the UNmade up because the Arab countries didn’t want to take in Palestinians.
They’ve had 75 years to move out of that camp and make their own lives better. At some point, they need wipe the snot off their noses and stop crying. The Jews who were ethnically cleansed from the Arab countries faced adversity when they moved to Israel, but they’ve moved on and made their lives much better.
@steventhedev@snek The Jews didn't "move on" , they literally created "Zionism" and STOLE land they had only a mere historical connection to. Your entire post was completely delusional
@steventhedev@snek Oh wait, I misspoke, the "Jews" of the 1940's didn't have a "historical" connection to the last, they only had a RELIGIOUS connection to the land. Religion doesn't convey physical property rights, so talk about making shit up.
Jabalia refugee camp consists of an area that is 1,4 km^2^. It had a registered population of about 50 000 inhabitants in 2017, who knows how much these days. It’s not exactly a small place, even if the term “refugee camp” might give that image.
So who knows. Perhaps they’re just murdering civilians, or perhaps a place like that is a perfect breeding ground for extremism.
Well, I, for one, hope that the IDF is finally fucking losing the popularity war. Until the US stops propping them up no matter what, they have no incentive to seriously work towards peace.
If they were fighting an actual war, then the leaders of Israel would be pulled into the ICC for war crimes.
Your argument might have more weight if the head of national security wasn’t a former member of the Kach party, a group Israel designated a terrorist group in 1994.
“When he came of age for conscription into the Israel Defense Forces at 18, he was exempted from service by the IDF due to his extreme-right political background.”
What a guy. I thought militaries (and police) love those people.
Israeli military is not for volunteers, it’s for everyone. The top ranking generals and chiefs of staff were prominent against Netanyahu and this extremist incompetent government. They are also said that human rights activists that give a voice to solders that saw atrocious acts of the idf itself. This is not the norm, contrary to what the media would have you think. This, according to the top ranking Israeli ex officers, is how the idf should fix its wrongs.
If I were a military commander in WW2 with the same technology we have today, and Hitler was out in the open at an elementary school graduation next to a preschool, I would not make that order. Instead, I’d mobilize intelligence agents to get there immediately and tail him, while moving my forces nearby.
I find it hard to believe that Israeli military and intelligence agencies could not track him and wait. The IDF just cares more about their own skin than they do of Palestinian children.
It took the US 10 years to track down Bin Laden, all the while he was still communicating with cells. In your example that is a LOT of quality holocaust time for Hitler.
There is no easy way out of the trolley problem of slippery genocidal targets popping up with a limited time window to execute.
He allowed Hamas to be funded but it’s still horrific the hand he had in making this monster. He allowed Hamas to grow so it would fight those looking to negotiate toward a two-state solution.
I think this is what @SlikPikker is talking about:
For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.
Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.
Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm.
Toward the end of Netanyahu’s fifth government in 2021, approximately 2,000-3,000 work permits were issued to Gazans. This number climbed to 5,000 and, during the Bennett-Lapid government, rose sharply to 10,000.
Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000.
Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza.
Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip.
Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
The USA didn’t ignore it, poorly thought out government regulations that didn’t allow US intelligence agencies to share information between each other caused it.
No, bush 2 ignored it. There were reports something was going to happen. The sharing of information was justification for the patriot act.
He then fabricated weapons of mass destruction to fan the flames for iraq. The other countries intelligence agency said it was bullshit, but we were told ours were more smarter.
Freedom fries were our measured response to the French being correct in their intelligence assessments.
It would make sense for Netenyahu to want something big and despicable enough to wage total war against Palestine. Israel has been slow rolling invasion and genocide for decades. It's definitely a conspiracy theory since there's no real proof yet but I element be surprised.
Again people lose sight of the fact that regardless of hamas actions, that doesn’t justify the killing of thousands of kids and families that are taking shelter in the hospital.
If anything, the medical staff and families are also hostages and they shouldn’t be killed either.
People kept arguing about the tunnel and the hospital ignoring the genocidal killing of Palestinians.
Tunnels or Hamas using the biggest and maybe only hospital Doesn’t justify the bombing of the hospital while people still getting treated from other bombing…
I mean, I read through what you posted and it literally never says Israel bombed hospitals.
HRW just cites a Tweet by “WHO in occupied Palestine” that is very non-specific while sounding specific.
The relevant bits from the Tweet used as the primary source by HRW:
“We are horrified at the latest reports of attacks on and in the vicinity of Al-Shifa Hospital, Al-Rantisi Naser Pediatric Hospital, Al-Quds Hospital, and others in Gaza city and northern Gaza, killing many, including children.”
“Over the past 36 days, WHO has recorded at least 137 attacks on health care in Gaza, resulting in 521 deaths and 686 injuries, including 16 deaths and 38 injuries of health workers on duty.”
If I thought I knew better from my seat in a chair what was going on in Gaza than the humanitarian organizations on the ground there then I would simply log off and touch grass.
Clearly you can’t even read or are mentally broken. The link above doesn’t say the hospital itself was bombed. Go to sleep, it must be late in the morning, tankie
I mean, when you are calling people liars because they don’t agree with you, especially when your own sources don’t support what you say, I’m pretty sure that’s a sign you need to log off and touch grass.
Is it possible Israel has bombed hospitals in Gaza? Certainly.
I disagree that saying someone is ignorant or that I would STFU if I was that ignorant is a personal attack. I also do not see how that is somehow more objectionable than lying about bombed civilians.
I haven’t received notifications for any of those other warnings as far as I can tell, the links in the log won’t actually load for me. I also stand by them and encourage everyone to check out my forbidden opinions. It’s hilarious that one of them is literally a single sentence of me asking a mod for clarification.
Btw, why is lying about murdered civilians fine but calling someone ignorant is beyond the pale?
Not all mods bother replying to comments they remove, I choose to because I believe transparency is an important part of moderation.
As to the question, engaging in personal attacks violates rule 5 in the sidebar (which I wrote BTW):
“Rule 5: Keep it civil. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!”
Ok, I understand that your stance is that ignorance is not a neutral statement of fact but a personal attack, and I do appreciate you replying unlike the last mod I asked that just deleted my comment without answering. Which I also had no idea about because I don’t monitor the mod log of every place I comment.
It’s just a really awful policy for the exact reason I’ve been underlining over and over: if polite lies about mass murder are fine and calling someone ignorant for saying heinous shit isn’t fine, you’re just creating an environment where impoliteness is worse than bigotry. And yeah I see the rules against that, doesn’t seem to be doing anything about the overt lie that hospitals haven’t been bombed.
“It’s the rules” is a terrible justification for leaving up lies about mass murdered civilians as long as they’re polite.
If the facts are on your side, I absolutely encourage you to refute incorrect information, just don’t attack the other user in the process.
“I’m sorry, you’re wrong. - Link.”
“Reality disagrees. - Link.”
That’s all cool.
Ad hominem attacks cross the line. When you start going after the other user, that’s a problem and we don’t want flamewar threads top to bottom. That’s why the rule exists.
If you don’t want flame wars then removing obvious flame bait–like lies about mass murdered civilians and hospitals not being bombed–would go a lot farther than deleting everyone that calls that shit what it is.
I’ve explained the mod position multiple times. It’s not up for debate. You’re now starting to shade over into a different form of disingenuous argument affectionately called “sealioning”.
If you want to run a community where it’s more offensive to say someone is ignorant than it is to lie about mass murdered civilians I’m not under the delusion that I can make you do anything else. Just don’t expect me to not say it’s a shitty policy or to ignore what it allows and what it doesn’t allow.
So the rule actually isn’t “don’t make personal attacks”, it’s “don’t tell the mods that their policies are bad.” Maybe you should add that to the sidebar.
I am very civilly pointing out that the idea hospitals haven’t been bombed is a disgusting piece of propaganda and someone who done even the bare minimum of reading non-IDF sources should know that. Personally I would feel more shame about lying about the deaths of civilians.
Hamas surrenders, releases hostages and it’s done. But Hamas is the one pushing this war and they’re using the suffering of their own people to push propaganda - and people like yourself support their efforts.
Put yourself in Hamas miltant shoe. Mostly now had lost family members, living since born in a prison, you cannot go to sea, or cross to Egypt or even other part of the country.
They’re going to die pointlessly regardless of what they do. While I disagree with what they’re doing. I can’t exactly fault them for feeling powerless and lashing out. When people have nothing to lose. They don’t care how much anyone else loses either. And the Israeli government has the largest part of the blame on this. They helped Hamas come to power and use them extensively to justify their genocide. They don’t want Hamas to stop.
Netanyahu’s own cabinet has literally said on video that Hamas is an asset to them. Those are the facts. Netanyahu and his ministers have also done a lot to help Hamas as well. Mind you, I’m not defending Hamas. Fuck hamas. Palestine is not Hamas however. Most the people living in Gaza never voted for Hamas. And don’t support Hamas. And would love to get rid of Hamas. But they don’t have the power to. The people that have the power to would rather come in and slaughter innocent citizens of Gaza under pretense of going after Hamas. Creating more Hamas and the process rather than actually getting rid of Hamas. These are the facts. Netanyahu’s government’s actions are indefensible.
When the so-called rescue response has killed multiple times more than the initial terror attack. It is a terror attack in its own right.
well if an ant bite kills your mom and you go and poison bomb the whole colony, then the surviving ants come bite and kill your dad. are you gonna just let the ants keep killing your family or are you gonna poison bomb the whole colony again
this is just an analogy (works for the nukes in japan too) at this point both sides are shitty and idek how to have a take about it anymore.
It is certainly better to kill Israeli soldiers than it is to not kill them. Peace has been tried for over 30 years, but Israel has refused. It’s about time Palestine started fighting back. Genociders do not listen to anything short of warfare and terrorism.
What genocide are you talking about? About the non-existent one against Palestine? How come they are under genocide when their population literally doubled over the last 70 years?
Can I ask you whether you support Hamas and their actions? Do you consider them terrorists?
Are you aware that Israel doesn’t need to literally kill every palestinian in order to succeed at genocide? Do you think the Holocaust wasn’t a genocide?
I don’t give a fuck about Hamas, Palestine should fight back against the genocidal state by any means necessary. Nothing Hamas has ever even been claimed to have done is worse than genocide, so criticizing them at all is a logical fallacy. If palestine thinks incorporating terrorism into their war effort is necessary, I’m not arrogant enough to claim I know better. Every repercussion of this war on both sides is the fault of Israel, just like was true of Nazi Germany.
I know that for genocide you don’t have to kill the whole population. Issue is that during the genocide, population goes down. During holocaust, 1/3 of the jews were killed and the population of jews was 30% smaller at the end of the genocide. This is not happening with Palestinians as their population literally doubled and there has never been a significant dip in their numbers. So no, Israel is not a genocidal state.
In the second paragraph you are finding excuses for Palestine for fighting genocide (why by the way doesn’t exist). Hamas is a terrorist organisation which does not care about Palestine at all. They are only capable of killing Jews, tying opposition to cars and dragging them around. They were also the ones who broke the ceasefire and made the population of Gaza so radical that no one wants to have anything with them. Even PLO rather stays away from Gaza. I am honestly shocked how can you support terrorism and blame Israel for everything. You also ignore the fact that Hamas is not Palestine.
So if Israel kills 2 million Palestinians, but elsewhere 3 million are born, that is still genocide. Also, source on their population going up? You mean like world wide or something? Certainly not in Gaza. No, Hamas did not violate a ceasefire. Laying seige to an open air prison for 20 years does not count as ceasing fire. Hamas attacked Israel in retaliation to them getting worse and worse.
Furthermore, Gaza is not Israel’s open air prison and it was Hamas who broke the ceasefire.
I honestly see no reason in this discussion when you keep inventing random facts and when you support terrorist organizations. This is truly unbelievable.
They haven’t killed them yet,but they very much intend to. If you’re not trolling, I highly suggest you do some research on this subject before speaking confidently on it. Basically everything you’ve said is incorrect. I can’t educate you to that degree in a couple comments. But if you are well meaning, and you can ditch your pro America/ pro imperialism bias, you will come to learn a lot about how the world works overall by doing a deep dive on this subject. But let me be very clear: Israel is the bad guy, and America is bad for supporting them. This is a fact. Genocide is always evil, no matter who is doing it.
Honestly it’s funny that you say I am wrong and pro-american but at the same time you are the one supporting terrorism and spreading complete bullshit. I don’t know who of us should educate themselves on the subject.
The land of Palestine is where it was when the borders of Israel were drawn in the 50s. Israel has expanded itself drastically since then, and most (all?) of that stolen land is Palestine.
Never heard of it before, but based on the summary, I assume he says some real wack job shit, alongside his factually correct points, such as America bringing 9/11 on itself. He’s right that when America targets civilians, they justify attacks like 9/11 in return.
“Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:
Because you attacked us and continue to attack us”. Yep, he is 100% correct.
He also blames interest on loans as core to America’s failings, which is honestly way more than I expected from him. Though, I figured out that capitalism is evil at like 25, while living inside capitalist propaganda, so it’s probably not that difficult to figure out. Not that interest is literally capitalism, but it’s a decent stand in for it that fits within his wack job religious message.
It’s an interesting comparison between 9/11 and the recent Hamas attack though. It’s not good that 9/11 happened, it just was wildly obvious that it eventually would. Meanwhile the exact opposite is true of the Hamas attack. It’s good to kill people genociding you, but I’m surprised it actually happened.
What? No. Osama also believes the sky is blue, does that make us all lunatics? If people say true things, it is intellectually dishonest to disagree with them. That is how brazenly obvious it is that capitalism is evil.
Sure, it’d pretty much have to be, right? Anything that isnt currently causing all of the world’s problems has a very low bar to clear, and if you think communism is the answer, Im not gonna disagree with you. What we replace capitalism with is much less important than the fact that we get rid of capitalism in the first place.
“International law stipulates that [the reaction] must be proportionate. Civilians must be taken into account, and humanitarian law is very clear on this. I think this limit has been largely exceeded”
But the Times of Israel likes to erase this from the title and make it sound like they just went one woopsie too far. Poor genocidal Israel… pout
Easy don’t acknowledge that anything‘s going on now. I’ve been watching western news media and there is now no coverage of Russia Ukraine situation.l, other then US politicians trying to get an aid package to Ukraine. Unsurprisingly, it’ll be tied to aid for Israel. This way they don’t need to preform mental gymnastics to condemn Russia and not Israel. I think the only story I’ve seen about Ukraine was about a family of 9 that was massacred in their sleep.
The war of Russia against Ukraine is still covered in most news – its just not happening much due to the current stalemate.
The general consensus regarding Israel is the same like before the war: the Settling is breaking international law and needs to stop. At the same time Hamas is a terrorist organization. It’s a classic ‘everybody sucks here – but one side is significantly worse’ and the palestinians are suffering from the conflict between Hamas and Israel.
War in Ukraine is still very much covered in the print/digital news. My two go-tos (the guardian and the bbc) both have dedicated section for the Russian Invasion.
I don’t watch television news, but I can imagine there is less coverage on that simply because there is not much suitable video content to be broadcast and what there is is usually several days, or even weeks old for operational reasons.
No excuses, but it helps to remember context. People are people, and there are always shitty people in any state. It is what considered acceptable is important. What more do you want from IDF? Execution without investigation?
Also this is honestly goes as nitpicking. Yes, there are always bad apples. But as far as I can see IDF reacts correctly. It is disturbing in my opinion that there is so much anti-Israel propaganda (not even criticism) is ongoing and supported by clearly more than half of the fediverse (judging by upvoting), where even correct behavior is criticized, and completely ignores the realities that Israel has to deal with. Not even criticizing the use of Himan shields by Hamas, for example.
What more do you want from IDF? Execution without investigation?
Oh, heavens no. That’s not what I want from the idf. At this point, that’s what I want for the idf.
It’s worrying for me that you’re confusing anti-israel propaganda with anti-terrorism discussion. At this point, Israel is a terrorist state. It shouldn’t ‘disturb’ you that people discuss about it and find that they don’t agree with their actions. People are rarely alright with mindless murder for any reason, let alone for land-grabbing masked as religion. Bombing civilians and hospitals, humiliating people because you’re holding a gun and get off on being “powerful”, raping people and committing war crimes, ethnically cleansing a region for the past 70 years, holy shit, this is what you see from a terrorist organization masquerading as a legitimate state and you draw the conclusion that it’s disturbing to be against that? Maybe you should be disturbed by your misshapen world view where all of this is acceptable.
In response to the evidence, the IDF said that “the [soldiers’] conduct that emerges from these scenes is grave and inconsistent with the values of the IDF. The incidents are under investigation. The IDF commanders will hold talks with all the soldiers on the front. One soldier has been dismissed from reserve service.”
Hey look it’s some asshole who didn’t read the fucking article and they’re quoting some other asshole who didn’t read the fucking article and who’s somehow oblivious to the comment from the person I replied to that says “oh I didn’t read the article.” (emphasis added)
Although I’m awed by your commitment to being the dumbest motherfucker on the planet, you could’ve spared yourself getting so upset about this water-is-wet statement of fact by just reading for a minute before opening your dumb mouth.
Your previous comment was pretty vague about what you were responding to. You should have made it clear you were responding to the article and not the comment you actually replied to because that’s what it sounds like. You really don’t have a right to respond this aggressively.
I disagree about the clarity. It’s a thread of replies that begins with a direct quote from the article. Any vagueness could be cleared up by either asking a question or reading the article.
When someone replies directly to me quoting something completely irrelevant and unrelated saying “you suck,” I reserve the right to mock them. Especially when my original comment should be as controversial as saying the article was published in the Times of Israel on November 1st.
I made a single, well-founded assumption that you didn’t read the article. If you did read it, it’s worse. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that, had you read it, you would have actually replied to what I said and not posted something completely irrelevant.
Care to elaborate on how videos not depicting death of any kind are evidence of murder? Or what the IDF’s very specific response to the very specific crimes shown on these very specific videos has to do with what you quoted? Or what that has to do with my very narrow (and true) statement that the videos in question don’t depict murder?
Remember when they shot a journalist in the head and provided a fake investigation into it that they then took back but still concluded in the end that the journalist was at fault for getting shot?
Remember when they crushed a 23 years old woman from the US to death with a bulldozer because she was protesting the demolition of palestinian homes, then they started an “investigation” where they found out they hadn’t done anything wrong because they didn’t see her even though the woman has been protesting there for hours and the soldiers that were there testified that she was being a nuisance for hours?
Remember the laws they passed that let the IDF destroy palestinian homes if they deem by internal investigation that they’re somehow connected to “terrorism”?
Remember the laws that let IDF soldiers shoot kids if they throw rocks at soldiers in occupied territories?
How many Gaza civilians does Israel get to kill in retaliation?
100? 1000? 2000? 5000? 10,000? We’re still not at the actual number that have been killed just since Oct 7th, by the way. If killing 1200 Israelis is bad why is killing 15,000 Palestinians just shit that happens that everyone should just get over?
Trying to break the walls of their open air prison thats killing everyone inside.
Hamas murdered 1,200 civilians in Israel.
If you think that’s just fine in order to reach some abstract goal, you really have no leg to stand on complaining about the IDF killing civilians inside Gaza.
Its abstract to you, because youre not gonna let the plight of gazans be a real thing that matters to you. But its very real, well before this recent assault. A humanitarian crisis for hundreds of thousands of people short on food, water, and shelter due to Israeli military oppression
Hamas is not fighting for the “plight of Gazans” - they’re on record saying that the Palestinians are not their responsibility.
That’s probably why they don’t give a fuck if their rockets detonate and explode in Gaza, killing hundreds of Palestinians. That’s probably why they launch rockets from hospitals and schools. That’s probably why they hide weapons production facilities next to places of worship. That’s probably why they shoot Palestinians who are trying to evacuate. That’s probably why they abduct, imprison, torture and murder Palestinians who they perceive to be enemies. That’s probably why they close down, shutter and burn down Palestinian coffee shops, hotels, shops, water parks, and entertainment venues out of “religious concerns.”
Really, you’re assuming that Hamas is fighting for the Palestinians, but all evidence points to the exact opposite.
They’re a terrorist organization that murders people in cold blood, and they rule over Gaza in a reign of terror.
Neither was Lehi and now they’re officially part of the IDF, you know the terrorist group.
All of these things are the exact same thing Israel did in mandatory Palestine including using schools, hospitals and temples to store weapons and fighters. Their terror organizations murdered people for religious concerns and quite honestly still do.
And yet lehi and similar were the same but are now praised as freedom fighters.
You could say the same if the idf dude, they literally absorbed about a half dozen terrorist organizations into the idf as an official matter with commendations for attacks that killed civilians.
Why do you simp for one or the other, they’re both dogshit.
Sorry this is a barrage of accusations i dont have the time to try and dig through myself. I tried searching for them closing down coffee shops and found nothing, and them claiming no responsibility for palestinians and only found an israeli news article. Im dubious of the rest of the claims
Sorry this is a barrage of accusations i dont have the time to try and dig through myself.
I understand.
You’re trying to defend the massacres committed by Hamas as legitimate self-defense. You’re trying to defend Hamas as a bunch of freedom fighters protecting Palestinian civilians.
Of course you’re not going to look up evidence that Hamas has been making Palestinians’ lives miserable. That would run counter to that narrative.
The restrictions taken in place by Egypt and Israel were inevitable due to the presence of terrorist groups and the complete radicalization of the country. Many tend to blame Israel for the situation in Gaza but if the population there were peace-loving individuals, they definitely wouldn’t have so bad relationships with Egypt.
If they were peace loving they would have been killed off long ago like the hundreds of thousands of palestinians Israel drove out in the name of their religion.
What are you talking about? Israel is the only democratic country in the middle east. It is also the only country there which respects basic human rights. That’s true despite the fact current Netanyahu’s government is quite right-winged.
It was Hamas who decided to kill thousands of people just because they were jews. There are literally more than a million Arab people living in Israel.
If Palestinians were peace-loving individuals, the solution would have been found man decades ago.
Israel has done many mistakes but it definitely is not a terrorist state and I honestly don’t understand why people find excuses for Hamas.
Yes, Hamas was democratically elected 18 years ago. Since there, there were no elections. Name any democratic country which has elections once in 18 years or so. Furthermore, the fact they were democratically elected does not give them right to be terrorists. That’s like with communists: the fact they were elected once does not mean that everyone will want them forever. That’s not how democracy works mate.
Yes, my point is they’re not allowed in Gaza at all, weapons are technically illegal there and if Israel catches you with one you’re pretty likely to be shot or rapidly made multipart.
This is goddamn insane, imagine Russia trying to tell Ukraine theyre not allowed to have a military. Of course the genociders dont want their victims armed. Tell Israel theyre not allowed to have a military
Hamas did not try to coup Egypt or Jordan nor did they attempt a genocide in Israel. None of what you’re saying is true or even close to being true. There’s not even a way you could bend the truth to fit your narrative. You’re just lying.
Lmao dude this is just history. Hamas had the destruction of Israel in its charter. Their intent is caliphate. They’re religious extremists.
Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood and Hezbollah are all directly linked, and all funded by Iran. Why do you think Egypt and Jordan closed their borders after their respective problems?
This is not even a controversial take, much less a lie.
So then where is the evidence that Hamas attempted genocide in Israel or tried to coup Jordan and Egypt? If this is “just history” then it should be easy to find reliable sources right? Unless of course you were just lying.
When you’re about to share what you’re thankful for, I hope you think about those children being ripped apart limb for limb by a bombing campaign you support. Maybe then you’ll find what little humanity you have left buried beneath all the propaganda and lies.
I don’t think anyone is saying the war is just but rather relatable. If someone occupied my country, killed my family and took my family land I can’t say I’d react any different.
You’d sneak into their villages and go door to door killing thousands of innocent people in their homes? And do the same to young people at a music festival?
I think we can all relate to resistance, but this is something else.
A. Isrealis have been doing that for the better part of 50 years.
B. Sure, that’s abborant but yeah I think we can all picture being so frustrated and stuck you lash out at whatever is nearby.
It’s resistance, resistance has never been pretty not even when proto Israeli terrorists were bombing civilian targets in 1946 and hiding weapons and fighters in schools, hospitals and temples.
Yep I’m sure that’s what they’d say. You know how the Indians drove out the British and ended their apartheid state? By shooting people at electronic music festivals and committing necrophilia and by killing babies.
Same thing in South Africa actually in the 80s: they killed white babies, and shot white South Africans at electronic music festivals.
Oh and don’t forget Martin Luther King Jr. in the USA. He actually personally attended electronic music festivals and killed his fellow Americans, regularly. He had a huge kill-count. The tunnels he dug beneath hospitals are fucking legendary, all school children learn of his wanton murder during the civil rights movement, and we venerate him for it. Every chance he got, he called for the extermination of white people, and of Jews, and of Asian people too. That’s how he became a fucking hero. Never tried to unite people together, not even once. Americans are so fucking proud that he sewed division and hate, and killed people all the damn time. That’s why he has a street in every single major city in the USA and in other places too.
The protagonists in the Old Testament do exactly that more than once with less provocation, and millions of people still consider them the good guys. Israel’s PM in particular has specifically cited one of them as a model to emulate. Look up his comment about Amalek.
So yes, a lot of people would do that, and the people in charge of this massacre in particular would definitely do that given a chance. Or, you know, you can look at the fact that they basically are doing that right now, just with bombs rather than small arms.
You know you’re on the moral high ground of relatability when your evidence comes from the fucking Old Testament. Like when your morality comes from 4000+ years ago, wow, that’s some good shit right there. Hold my beer, I’m about to say that I read slavery is ok in the Old Testament. Watch as I drive down to Whole Foods with a net gun and get myself some laborers from the produce isles. It’s ok because they wear multiple kinds of cloth at the same time, and I saw one pick up a lobster so he can definitely be my chattel. There goes one holding hands with his partner, give me a minute while I righteously smite them in the name of my lord; pour out some salt for them!
Man, you suck at reading comprehension. I’m using the Old Testament as an example of what people believe, not a source of factual information. You understand those are different things, right?
Dude you suck at reading comprehension because that’s exactly what I addressed in my comment. If one’s belief system is actually based in or otherwise aligned with the Old Testament, their opinion is invalid and they are morally bankrupt.
The Old Testament is so fucking brutal and devoid of morality, that 2000 years ago people started Christianity just to get away from its brutality; that was literally the appeal of jesus. To say “god did a take back and the world doesn’t have to be so brutal”.
I’m not religious so no, and I made no mention of religion. Israel was forged by hard-line religious extremists as well but is technically a secular nation.
You should look into every revolution on earth, 98% of which will include religious extremists. Your point is idiotic, the American revolution had religious extremists lol.
You’re being tedious. You know what I meant and notably hamas is not the only dog in this fight buddy. The narrative is it’s hamas because they’re religious extremists and it tends to discount the fact that regardless of their intent or reasoning the effect is the save, armed defense of Gaza. Without hamas the place would have been annexed 30 years ago.
I’m not being tedious. You specifically said you’d join Hamas. That’s what Hamas is. If you want to say something differently, just say different words.
Without Hamas there would literally be a Palestinian state, and it would be a secular state, and I know this because this is the reason Hamas exists.
They seized power and canceled elections forever specifically because Palestinians were going to be their own secular state, and Israel would exist. They find that unacceptable. Just like the entire reason for the October attacks was Israel normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia.
These things are not secrets or opinions man. This is history.
You are, meaning by context is a thing. I did not specifically say I’d join hamas, hyperbole is absurd when there’s an objective record just above your comment.
Not at all, there’s good evidence that Israel was always writing against that namely the Israeli government paying hamas and letting them thrive so long as they took out targets beneficial to right wing Israelis.
No it’s not, they’re both terrible and need to be dismantled and reformed in a less shitty way. Simple as. I think it’s idiotic to “take a side” in the war as a multiple century religious holy war. What Israel is doing right now with people like you cheering it on is killing more then ten times as many people in “self defense” and then lying about what they find to justify murdering civilians. That’s objectively wrong.
shows u have no clue what ur talking about. Israel wasn’t forged by religion extremists, on contrary. I will never understand people like u who talk with such confidence about matters they have no clue about.
nice personal attack, maybe because facts are not at your side? fake news, half truths, and propoganda is all I get from u. good luck with that I’m out
The first gulf was so effective it saved countless Iraqi lives. Presenting airpower so goddamn unfair thousands just ran into the desert rather than stay and get killed. It really is as fast and humane as it can be, as long as the execution is perfect
He didn’t really have nothing to do with the execution of the attack, gen Schwartzkopf or however the fuck his name is written was in charge of that. I mean I know you’re memeing but I’d just like to make that point. Really interesting guy too check out his memoirs.
People didn’t like this post, but the truth is unpopular. It’s not like I’m encouraging war crimes after all, but you just haven’t been paying attention if you think they don’t make additional war crimes easier.
War crimes have definitions, though, so lots of terrible things aren’t war crimes… they’re just war.
Especially when getting fired is a much bigger deal than whatever the media usually considers ‘slammed’ to mean (people on Twitter and TV saying mean things).
Ya it’s like they’re using the multiple billions of dollars we’ve invested in spy satellites and other technologies to track people against Hamas or something…
It just seems that in USA it’s self they can know about a guy whose been calling for help because he’s on the verge of shooting up a place and they don’t do nothing about it until they start shooting things up. US intelligence seems incredibly dysfunctional and if they can’t sort things out at home I don’t know how they would figure these things out abroad.
Internal affair with 1 citizen is a police matter. Terrorists are the intelligence community’s focus. The same organizations wouldn’t be involved in both examples.
It’s a stupid article that didn’t deserve reposting.
Zelensky is obviously going to take Israel’s side, since Israel might actually provide Ukraine with weapons, aid, or intelligence, whereas Hamas will provide Ukraine with nothing and is aligned with Iran who are actively supplying Russia with the drones that are murdering them.
But yeah, from an analagous standpoint, Israel would be Russia who has illegally occupied the land of Palestine, and this is roughly the equivalent of Ukraine striking back at Russia in Russia’s territory, though there certainly seem like far far more civilian casualties than in any of Ukraine’s operations, at the same time Palestinians are also far more desperate and have face decades and decades of oppression, conditions likely to foster extremism.
Idk I feel like the autocorrect on the iPhone with iOS 17 has gotten much better and apparently it gets even better with time as it learns your words and other aspects of how you wrote.
Ok, I swiped the above as fast as I could without corrections. Only issue is I didn’t put any punctuation, bc I’m not use to typing that way. Usually a two thumbed, tapping typer.
There’s another way to spin the analogy, and I believe that’s closer to what Zelensky had in mind.
Both Russia and Hamas target civilian buildings with rockets. Both recently advanced in a military invasion into the sovereign territory of Ukraine / Israel. Both kidnapped and murdered citizencs. So the analogy is Russia / Hamas vs Ukraine / Israel.
I think it’s a bit weird Zelensky would ally with a country which behaves like Russia from his point of view. I agree he probably might still do it, since he needs the weapons. But given this incentive, I think the alternative analogy becomes far more appealing and convincing.
Eh, that alternative analogy is a worse one though, since it falls apart the minute you look at Israel’s past indiscriminate killing of civilians and current unilateral and internationally condemned occupation of Palestinian territory.
Both Russia and Hamas target civilian buildings with rockets
Thats disingenuous. While im sure Hamas would have 0 problem with targeting civilians if they could, the reality is their rockers are far too primitive to target much of anything.
gunning civilians down during a music festival is “defending themselves” now? God I’m sick of people outright defending literal monsters. IDF and Hamas are both evil organisations. the people being killed on both sides are not. I cannot understand how anyone can sit here and justify killing civilians on any side for any reason.
Thats kind of my point. Im pointing out the absurdity of claiming Israels actions are “self defence” by comparing them to Hamas’ actions which are just as clearly not self defence.
My dude, for your own sake get a hobby or something. Spending your time being a troll on lemmy is just about the most wasteful thing you can do with you life. When youre old you dont want to look back on your life and realise then how much time you wasted on this nonsense.
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