plenty of APIs in Java have documentation like that and it is worst when I read the documentation in order to find out the definition of the nouns and verbs used there and then it is just like that
Disagree. The technology will never yield AGI as all it does is remix a huge field of data without even knowing what that data functionally says.
All it can do now and ever will do is destroy the environment by using oodles of energy, just so some fucker can generate a boring big titty goth pinup with weird hands and weirder feet. Feeding it exponentially more energy will do what? Reduce the amount of fingers and the foot weirdness? Great. That is so worth squandering our dwindling resources to.
I really don’t know whats going about the Anti-AI people. But is getting pretty similar to any other negationism, anti-science, anti-progress… Completely irrational and radicalized.
Sorry to hurt your fefes, but I don’t like theft and that is what AI content ALL is. How does it “know” how to program? Code stolen form humans. How does it speak? Words stolen from humans. How does it draw? Art stolen from humans.
Until this shit stops being built on a mountain of stolen data and stolen livelihoods, the argument is over. I don’t care if you like stealing money from artists so that you can pretend you had any creative input into an AIs art output. You’re stealing the work of normal people and think it’s okay because it was already stolen once before by the billionaires who are now selling it to you.
Yes, please apply the logic of stealing form large multi-national corporations to individual artists. Sterling logic.
I know why my boss makes more money then me. Because he is my enemy in a class war.
If any of these AI models draws art that is slightly too close to looking like Mickey Mouse the Disney corporation is sharpening the lawyer axe. I wonder why. But sharing is caring, right? Why would they do that?
Oh right because they want to decide what their intellectual property is used for. A right that wasn’t afforded to basically every single artist whose stuff was used to train these models. These artists often rely directly on selling their art for their daily survival. Maybe they would have liked some money to sell their art for this purpose? Maybe they didn’t want to sell it at all? Doesn’t matter, they weren’t asked. If you don’t have an army of lawyers, the corporations will do as they like. Which is why Disney is save, while normal artists are fucked and weren’t even asked in what hole they would like it before they were.
So shut the fuck up about sharing is caring, it’s easy to say that if you are the one taking advantage. I don’t know what field you work in, but I hope you lose your job to a robot that they trained on recordings of your work. You can tell me then how good it feels to share your skills.
Disagree. The technology will never yield AGI as all it does is remix a huge field of data without even knowing what that data functionally says.
We definitely don’t need AGI for AI technologies to be useful. AI, particularly reinforcement learning, is great for teaching robots to do complex tasks for example. LLMs have shocking ability relative to other approaches (if limited compared to humans) to generalize to “nearby but different, enough” tasks. And once they’re trained (and possibly quantized), they (LLMs and reinforcement learning policies) don’t require that much more power to implement compared to traditional algorithms. So IMO, the question should be “is it worthwhile to spend the energy to train X thing?” Unfortunately, the capitalists have been the ones answering that question because they can do so at our expense.
For a person without access to big computing resources (me lol), there’s also the fact that transfer learning is possible for both LLMs and reinforcement learning. Easiest way to explain transfer learning is this: imagine that I want to learn Engineering, Physics, Chemistry, and Computer Science. What should I learn first so that each subject is easy for me to pick up? My answer would be Math. So in AI speak, if we spend a ton of energy to train an AI to do math and then fine-tune agents to do Physics, Engineering, etc., we can avoid training all the agents from scratch. Fine-tuning can typically be done on “normal” computers with FOSS tools.
all it does is remix a huge field of data without even knowing what that data functionally says.
IMO that can be an incredibly useful approach for solving problems whose dynamics are too complex to reasonably model, with the understanding that the obtained solution is a crude approximation to the underlying dynamics.
IMO I’m waiting for the bubble to burst so that AI can be just another tool in my engineering toolkit instead of the capitalists’ newest plaything.
Sorry about the essay, but I really think that AI tools have a huge potential to make life better for us all, but obviously a much greater potential for capitalists to destroy us all so long as we don’t understand these tools and use them against the powerful.
How will these reasonable AI tools emerge out of this under capitalism?
How does any technology ever see use outside of oppressive structures? By understanding it and putting to work on liberatory goals.
I think that crucial to working with AI is that, as it stands, the need for expensive hardware to train it makes it currently a centralizing technology. However, there are things we can do to combat that. For example, the AI Horde offers distributed computing for AI applications.
And how is it not all still just theft with extra steps that is imoral to use?
We gotta find datasets that are ethically collected. As a practitioner, that means not using data for training unless you are certain it wasn’t stolen. To be completely honest, I am quite skeptical of the ethics of the datasets that the popular AI products were trained on. Hence why I refuse to use those products.
Personally, I’m a lot more interested in the applications to robotics and industrial automation than generating anime tiddies and building chat bots. Like I’m not looking to convince you that these tools are “intelligent”, merely useful. In a similar vein, PID controllers are not “smart” at all, but they are the backbone of industrial automation. (Actually, a proven use for “AI” algorithms is to make an adaptive PID controller so that’s it can respond to changes in the plant over time.)
A deep neural adaptive PID controller would be a bit overkill for a simple robot arm, but for say a flexible-link robot arm it could prove useful. They can also work as part of the controller for systems governed by partial differential equations, like in fluid dynamics. They’re also great for system identification, the results of which might indicate that the ultimate controller should be some “boring” algorithm.
This has been going on since big oil popularized the “carbon footprint”. They want us arguing with each other about how useful crypto/AI/whatever are instead of agreeing about pigouvian energy taxes and socialized control of the (already monopolized) grid.
Pollock’s paintings are art. a bunch of paint buckets falling on a canvas in an earthquake wouldn’t make art, even if it resembled Pollock’s paintings. there’s no intent behind it. no artist.
because if you teach me to pronounce some japanese words without teaching me what it means, i may say them perfectly, and even trick some people who don’t see my face into thinking I’m speaking native japanese, even though i don’t know what the fuck I’m saying. the fact that i tricked some people into thinking otherwise does not make me a japanese person.
Any work made to convey a concept and/or emotion can be art. I’d throw in “intent”, having “deeper meaning”, and the context of its creation to distinguish between an accounting spreadsheet and art.
The problem with AI “art” is it’s produced by something that isn’t sentient and is incapable of original thought. AI doesn’t understand intent, context, emotion, or even the most basic concepts behind the prompt or the end result. Its “art” is merely a mashup of ideas stolen from countless works of actual, original art run through an esoteric logic network.
AI can serve as a tool to create art of course, but the further removed from the process a human is the less the end result can truly be considered “art”.
As a thought experiment let’s say an artist takes a photo of a sunset. Then the artist uses AI to generate a sunset and AI happens to generate the exact same photo. The artist then releases one of the two images with the title “this may or may not be made by AI”. Is the released image art or not?
If you say the image isn’t art, what if it’s revealed that it’s the photo the artist took? Does is magically turn into art because it’s not made by AI? If not does it mean when people “make art” it’s not art?
If you say the image is art, what if it’s revealed it’s made by AI? Does it magically stop being art or does it become less artistic after the fact? Where does value go?
The way I see it is that you’re trying to gatekeep art by arbitrarily claiming AI art isn’t real art. I think since we’re the ones assigning a meaning to art, how it is created doesn’t matter. After all if you’re the artist taking the photo isn’t the original art piece just the natural occurrence of the sun setting. Nobody created it, there is no artistic intention there, it simply exists and we consider it art.
there’s something’s highly suspect about someone not understanding the difference between art made by a human being and some output spit out by a dumb pixel mixer. huge red flag imo.
and yes, the value does go. because we care about origin and intent. that’s the whole point.
if the original Mona Lisa were to be sold for millions of dollars, and then someone reveals that it was not the original Mona Lisa but a replica made last week by some dude… do you think the buyer would just go “eh it looks close enough”? no they would sue the fuck out of the seller and guess what, the painting would not be worth millions anymore. it’s the same painting. the value is changed. ART IS NOT A PRODUCT.
there’s something’s highly suspect about someone not understanding the difference between art made by a human being and some output spit out by a dumb pixel mixer. huge red flag imo.
Translation. I can’t argue your point so I’m going to try characters assassination.
if the original Mona Lisa were to be sold for millions of dollars, and then someone reveals that it was not the original Mona Lisa but a replica made last week by some dude… do you think the buyer would just go “eh it looks close enough”? no they would sue the fuck out of the seller and guess what, the painting would not be worth millions anymore. it’s the same painting. the value is changed. ART IS NOT A PRODUCT.
Pretty ironic to say art is not a product and then argue that its monetary value would decrease, which can happen only if you treat art as a product.
Imagine if instead of a physical painting Mona Lisa was a digital file and free on the internet, would people think Mona Lisa is less impressive as an art piece because anyone could own it? I think it’s artistic value wouldn’t decrease, only its value as a product would decrease because everyone could get it for free.
it’s not a product in the sense that its value does not come from its function, otherwise it would not lose value when it would be revealed to be of a different origin, but otherwise exactly the same. i spoke of the monetary value just because it’s quantifiable; it’s not otherwise relevant.
if Mona Lisa was free and digital it would be as valuable as a digital Mona Lisa could be. being free and digital doesn’t make it pointless, without agency or intent like AI art is.
It seems like you’re agreeing with me on the reasoning why AI art is art, you just refuse to accept AI as art. So let’s try a different way. Who says art has agemcy or intent? Clearly it’s not just “everything made by humans” because if I showed you the toilet paper I used to wipe my ass we can both agree that it’s not art. Neither is the comment I’m writing right now. So there needs to be something more that separates not art and art. The two most common ways would be the intent of the artist and the perceived intent of the viewer.
If it’s what the artist intended the am artist can prompt AI until AI generates the image the artist intended. Since the artist intended the AI generated image to look that way the intent is inherited from the artist.
If it’s what the viewer perceived we can reach the original question I postulated. If an image makes you feel something and you can’t know if it’s made by the artist or by AI, how do you know it’s art or not? If we take by whether you perceive intent of not then you’re attributing intent to art and it doesn’t matter how it was made. If you feel something and after the fact you find out it was AI generated image then it doesn’t invalidate what you felt.
You can come up with whomever to validate intent or agency and I’ll show you how AI wouldn’t play a role in that decision because AI isn’t sentient. It’s a tool like a camera or a paint brush or just chalk. We give the intent by using the tools we have.
AI is a tool used by a human. The human using the tools has an intention, wants to create something with it.
It’s exactly the same as painting digital art. But instead o moving the mouse around, or copying other images into a collage, you use the AI tool, which can be pretty complex to use to create something beautiful.
Do you know what generative art is? It existed before AI. Surely with your gatekeeping you think that’s also no art.
I’m so sick of this. there are scenarios in which so-called “AI” can be used as a tool. for example, resampling. it’s dodgy, but whatever, let’s say the tech is perfected and it truly analyzes data to give a good result rather than stealing other art to match.
but a tool is something that does exactly what you intend for it to do. you can’t say 100 dice are collectively “a tool that outputs 600” because you can sit there and roll them for as long as it takes for all of them to turn up sixes, technically. and if you do call it that, that’s still a shitty tool, and you did nothing worth crediting to get 600. a robot can do it. and it does. and that makes it not art.
So do you not what generative art is. And you pretend to stablish catedra on art.
Generative art, that existed before even computers, is s form of art in which a algorithm created a form of art, and that algorithm can be repeated easily. Humans can replicate that algorithm, but computers can too, and generative art is mostly used with computers because obvious reasons. Those generative algorithms can be deterministic or non deterministic.
And all this before AI, way before.
AI on its essence is just a really complex and large generative algorithm, that some people do not understand and this are afraid of it, like people used to be afraid of eclipses.
Also, you seems not to know that photographs also take hundreds or thousands of pictures with just pressing a button and just select the good ones.
cameras do not make random images. you know exactly what you’re getting with a photograph. the reason you take multiples is mostly for timing and lighting. also, rolling a hundred dice is not the same as painting something 100 times and picking the best one, nor is it like photographing it. the fact that you’re even making this comparison is insane.
If you know how to use an AI you also know how it’s working and what are you going to get, is not random. It’s a complex generative algorithm where you put in the initial variables, nothing more.
the AI itself doesn’t know what it’s doing, neither are you. the fact that you’re putting in words to change the outcome until the dice fall somewhat close to where you want them to fall doesn’t make it yours. you can’t add your own style to it, because you’re not doing it.
Please, do not extend your lack of knowledge to me. Thanks.
Also, most traditional artists never develop a style of their own. If you believe that every single artist has its own unique style… You’d be much incorrect. That does not make it less of an artist.
I remember back in the day when lots of people followed the Bob Ross style to do some nice paintings. Luckily you are here to gatekeep them from doing art.
Nothing forbid anyone to train an AI with its own drawings in its own style.
Once again, AI is a tool. Like many others used in digital art. It’s just a statistically driven generative algorithm. People can use a tool as they please to make art, same as they can use any other tool, and you have not the authority to gatekeep an artist of doing art just because you think their tool, their style, the object or anything about the artist does not fit with your morals.
And they also can, and will, mix it with other tools to produce the piece of art they want to create.
Also all this discussion about “the style™” could be just disproven given the fact that if you weight your variables and use a specific dataset you can generate consistent images in a determined style. And some AI artists does have a representative style due to this… So…
People said exact same thing about CGI, and photography before. I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody scream “IT’S NOT ART” at Michaelangelo or people carving walls of temples in ancient Egypt.
the “people” you’re talking about were talking about tools. I’m talking about intent. Just because you compare two arguments that use similar words doesn’t mean the arguments are similar.
Intent is not needed for the art, else all the art in history where we can’t say what author wanted to express or the ones misunderstood wouldn’t be considered art. Art is in the eye of the beholder. Note that one of the first regulations of AI art that is always proposed is that AI art be clearly labeled as such, because whomever propose it do know the above.
I get you but it’s really not necessary. In case of (somewhat) realist art you can still recognize AI artifacts, but abstract art is already unrecognizable (and this is the precise reason they want AI art to be marked, so they won’t embarrass themselves with peans over something churned out by computer in few seconds), not to mention there is also art created by animals, and it is considered art but it’s not created with intent, except maybe the intent of people dipping dog’s paw in paint. Thus we again just get to the distinction that art needs to be created just by living things? It’s meaningless.
Anyway, i guess next few years will make this even more muddled and the art scene will get transformed permanently. Hell recently i’ve encountered some AI power metal music which is basically completely indistinguishable from normal, but in this case it mostly serve to show how uninspired and generic entire genre is.
Technology is a cultural creation, not a magic box outside of its circumstances. “The problem isn’t the technology, it’s the creators, users, and perpetuators” is tautological.
And, importantly, the purpose of a system is what it does.
So you’re using a different specific and niche technology (which directly benefits and exists because of) the technology that is the subject of critique, and acting like the subject technology behaves like yours?
“Google is doing a bad with z”
“z can’t be bad, I use y and it doesn’t have those problems that are already things that happened. In the past. Unchangeable by future actions.”
No one wants to ban technology outright. What we’re saying is that the big LLMs are actively harmful to us, humanity. This is not fear mongering. This is just what’s happening. OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, and Meta are stealing from humanity at large and setting the planet on fire to do it. For years they told us stealing intellectual property on an individual level was a harmful form of theft. Now they’re doing the same kind of theft bit its different now because it benefits them instead of us.
What we are arguing is that this is bad. Its especially extra bad because with the death of big search a piece of critical infrastructure to the internet as we know it is now just simply broken. The open source wonks you celebrate are working on fixing this. But just because someone criticizes big tech does not mean they criticize all tech. The truth is the FAANG companies plus OpenAI and Microsoft are killing our planet for it to only benefit their biggest shareholders
I did not believe in Intelectual Property before. I’m not going to start believing now.
The same I think that corporations having a hold on media is bad for humandkind I think that small artists should not have a "not usable by AI"hold on what they post. Sharing knowledge is good for humanity. Limitate who can have access or how they can use that knowledge or culture is bad.
The dead of internet have nothing to do with AI and all to do with leaving internet in hands of a couple big corporations.
As for emissions… are insignificant relative to other sources of CO2 emissions. Do you happen to eat meat, travel abroad for tourism, watch sports, take you car to work, buy products made overseas? Those are much bigger sources of CO2.
You dont think polluting the world is going to have a net negative effect for humanity?
What exactly is there to gain with AI anyways? What’s the great benefit to us as a species? So far its just been used to trivialize multiple artistic disciplines, basic service industries, and programming.
Things have a cost, many people are doing the cost-benefit analysis and seeing there is none for them. Seems most of the incentive to develop this software is if you would like to stop paying people who do the jobs listed above.
What do we get out of burning the planet to the ground? And even if you find an AI thats barely burning it, what’s the point in the first place?
What exactly is there to gain with AI anyways? What’s the great benefit to us as a species? So far its just been used to trivialize multiple artistic disciplines, basic service industries, and programming.
The whole point is that much like industrial automation it reduces the number of hours people need to work. If this leads to people starving then that’s a problem with the economic system, not with AI technology. You’re blaming the wrong field here. In fact everyone here blaming AI/ML and not the capitalists is being a Luddite.
It’s also entirely possible it will start replacing managers and capitalists as well. It’s been theorized by some anti-capitalists and economic reformists that ML/AI and computer algorithms could one day replace current economic systems and institutions.
Things have a cost, many people are doing the cost-benefit analysis and seeing there is none for them. Seems most of the incentive to develop this software is if you would like to stop paying people who do the jobs listed above.
This sadly is probably true of large companies producing big, inefficient ML models as they can afford the server capacity to do so. It’s not true of people tweaking smaller ML models at home, or professors in universities using them for data analysis or to aid their teaching. Much like some programmers are getting fired because of ML, others are using it to increase their productivity or to help them learn more about programming. I’ve seen scientists who otherwise would struggle with data analysis related programming use ChatGPT to help them write code to analyse data.
What do we get out of burning the planet to the ground? And even if you find an AI thats barely burning it, what’s the point in the first place?
As the other guy said there are lots of other things using way more energy and fossil fuels than ML. Machine learning is used in sciences to analyse things like the impacts of climate change. It’s useful enough in data science alone to outweigh the negative impacts. You would know about this if you ever took a modern data science module. Furthermore being that data centres primarily use electricity it’s relatively easy to move them to green sources of energy compared to say farming, or transport. In fact some data centres already use green energy primarily. Data centres will always exist regardless of AI and ML anyway, it’s just a matter of scale.
No. I’m just not fear mongering things I do not understand.
Neither am I. When you’re defending whatabputism, it’s best you at least try to represent the arguments of the person you’re arguing with accurately.
False equivalence is a classic. Biotechnology is not a technology, for example, it’s billions of technologies informed, designed, and implemented, by humans, technology is a cultural feature.
Technology as this thing free from the ethics of its use is tech bro ancap cope to justify technological pursuits with empty ethical value. You can think “banning human progress in any way” is evil. But that would make you wildly uncritical of your own beliefs.
Feel free to take your arguments back to e/acc, where that level of convenience induced niavety is considered rhetorically valid.
Technology is a product of science. The facts science seeks to uncover are fundamental universal truths that aren’t subject to human folly. Only how we use that knowledge is subject to human folly. I don’t think open source or open weights models are a bad usage of that knowledge. Some of the things corporations do are bad or exploitative uses of that knowledge.
You should really try and consider what it means for technology to be a cultural feature. Think, genuinely and critically, about what it means when someone tells you that you shouldn’t judge the ethics and values of their pursuits, because they are simply discovering “universal truths”.
And then, really make sure you ponder what it means when people say the purpose of a system is what it does. Why that might get brought up in discussions about wanton resource spending for venture capitalist hype.
That’s not at all what I am doing, or what scientists and engineers do. We are all trained to think about ethics and seek ethical approval because even if knowledge itself is morally neutral the methods to obtain that knowledge can be truly unhinged.
Scientific facts are not a cultural facet. A device built using scientific knowledge is also a product of the culture that built it. Technology stands between objective science and subjective needs and culture. Technology generally serves some form of purpose.
Here is an example: Heavier than air flight is a possibility because of the laws of physics. A Boeing 737 is a specific product of both those laws of physics and of USA culture. It’s purpose is to get people and things to places, and to make Boeing the company money.
LLMs can be used for good and ill. People have argued they use too much energy for what they do. I would say that depends on where you get your energy from. Ultimately though it doesn’t use as much as people driving cars or mining bitcoin or eating meat. You should be going after those first if you want to persecute people for using energy.
It does not appear to me that you have even humored my request. I’m actually not even confident you read my comment given your response doesn’t actually respond to it. I hope you will.
Think, genuinely and critically, about what it means when someone tells you that you shouldn’t judge the ethics and values of their pursuits, because they are simply discovering “universal truths”.
No scientist or engineer as ever said that as far as I can recall. I was explaining that even for scientific fact which is morally neutral how you get there is important, and that scientists and engineers acknowledge this. What you are asking me to do this based on a false premise and a bad understanding of how science works.
And then, really make sure you ponder what it means when people say the purpose of a system is what it does.
It both is and isn’t. Things often have consequences alongside their intended function, like how a machine gets warm when in use. It getting warm isn’t a deliberate feature, it’s a consequence of the laws of thermodynamics. We actually try to minimise this as it wastes energy. Even things like fossil fuels aren’t intended to ruin the planet, it’s a side effect of how they work.
It’s a very common talking point now to claim technology exists independent of the culture surrounding it. It is a lie to justify morally vacant research which the, normally venture capitalist, is only concerned about the money to be made. But engineers and scientists necessarily go along with it. It’s not not your problem because we are the ones executing cultural wants, we are a part of the broader culture as well.
The purpose of a system is, absolutely, what it does. It doesn’t matter how well intentioned your design and ethics were, once the system is doing things, those things are its purpose. Your waste heat example, yes, it was the design intent to eliminate that, but now that’s what it does, and the engineers damn well understand that its purpose is to generate waste heat in order to do whatever work it’s doing.
This is a systems engineering concept. And it’s inescapable.
The purpose of a system is, absolutely, what it does. It doesn’t matter how well intentioned your design and ethics were, once the system is doing things, those things are its purpose. Your waste heat example, yes, it was the design intent to eliminate that, but now that’s what it does, and the engineers damn well understand that its purpose is to generate waste heat in order to do whatever work it’s doing.
Huh? Then why is so much money spent on computers to minimize energy usage and heat production? This is perhaps the biggest load of bullshit I think I have heard in a long time. Maybe there is some concept similar to this, but if so you clearly haven’t articulated it well.
Anyway I think I am done talking about this with you. You are here to fear-monger over technology you probably don’t even use or understand, and I am sick of lemmings doing it.
More likely you’re more interested in finding a way to disagree with the concept of posiwid than in doing basic research or listening.
It’s funny when y’all use “fear mongering” for people pointing out systemic issues with ai and its hype. Though it’s honestly tragic how uninterested you are in considering why AI and its hype is being criticized. Whatever makes the exploitative slave labor trained energy hungry silicon make venture capital money disappear, eh?
Source on this? I was young but I remember that election. Perot seemed to be like some kind of ultracapitalist “run the country like a business” moron that people respected because he was rich. My grandpa loved him and I rarely heard him talk politics. He was also only educated to the sixth grade for what that’s worth.
Seems like the kind of guy to take a bite out of the conservative vote.
I’m gonna fix my ignorance and go look him up right now though.
Edit-- I’m back, learned a lot. I love that he supported electronic direct democracy way back in 1992. He was in favor of gun control and money for AIDS research. Openly supported gay rights in 1996 but notably not until his second campaign when he really had no chance.
He didn’t believe trickle down economics worked. Was a billionaire who spoke against greed which is really strange. But me calling him an ultracapitalist is probably misplaced. Also not a moron. He was into taxing the wealthy, starting to like this guy, but balancing the budget by cutting social programs, nevermind do not like.
He opposed outsourcing factory jobs and favored environmental protection. He wanted to decrease the budgets of both the military and NASA. Wanted to cancel the space station.
Quite the complicated guy. I love some of his policies and hate others. Seems like a weird mix when viewed through a modern lens. I think I’d have considered voting for him if I was ten years older in '92. Probably would have voted for Clinton though who notably achieved one of Perot’s primary goals, which was to balance the budget.
So I ended up researching Clinton’s campaign and it was straight up racist against black people. He also pledged to end welfare “as we know it”. I think I actually would have voted for Perot! Maybe there’s something to what you’re saying about reducing Clinton’s margin of victory.
Yep. A third party candidate hasn’t gotten a single electoral college vote since George Wallace, and the only time a third party has done better than either a Democrat or a Republican was with Theodore Roosevelt and his Bull Moose party, which crushed Taft but got absolutely obliterated in turn by Wilson due to the spoiler effect.
The youngsters are downvoting you, but what you’re saying is sad but true. It’s the reason Bernie never ran as an independent, he knew it would hand the victory to republicans on a silver platter.
Almost anyone with an irrational political stance betrays their youth.
Political ideology has always captivated the passions of youth, but isn’t successfully implemented or even internalized except by people with age and experience and emotional regulation.
I agree with you. Do you think people become more conservative with age or is it society becoming more progressive and leaving them behind? Obviously ignoring the current regressive times of the last eight+ years there.
To contribute an answer to the original question I offer this post as evidence of age- thinking about how much has changed during my life may have come through above.
Do you think people become more conservative with age or is it society becoming more progressive and leaving them behind?
I am getting up there in years and seeing this play out over and over.
I think every generation wants to be more progressive than the last, but we tend to carry baggage of fear and insecurity through the generations. Or more specifically, older people tend to gain the political and monetary capital needed to affect policy and shape our societal outlook and attitude. They will always be more conservative than the younger generation who will want more freedoms and personal rights, inherently, and as the ruling class will clash with newer sensibilities, over and over.
What we’re asking here, is the conservatism reflected in our elders and leadership now broadly more harmful or helpful? Are we out of the touch or is it the kids who are wrong?
I think it’s a mix but mostly it’s not our real problem. Our real problem is that no matter what our age, we have greatly misunderstood how our own existence works. Most people have been taught that they have brains designed to exercise logic and reason and that brains are the best thing ever if you use them and make them smart.
No, our brains are not logical tools. We are not a rational species. There was no “age of enlightenment.” It’s all a hoax. Our brains are tools designed to write a story to explain how you feel. And that’s it. It doesn’t even have to make sense. When we all learn how our brains actually work we will collectively make better decisions, have more compassion for each other, and likely sink into even deeper despair as we all start to realize we have no free will.
You would need some real insurance that others were commuted to vote 3rd party no matter what. Otherwise the real benifit is just getting to that 5% mark where third parties get some bennies like federal funding and automatic ballot access in some places. Which is minor vs say stopping a campaign of vengeance from a candidate who has acted feloniously already and has abused his position to black bag political opponents before.
Why not vote 3rd party in states that only go one direction? Take NY for instance. What the fuck harm comes from voting 3rd party assholes for president? One time the state elected a republican candidate and it was (still is I think) the largest landslide in history. I’m 36 and have always hated the 2 party system. It’s been easier and easier as I got older too with increasing political polarity.
What I want is more than 2 fucking options. What you are assuming is that I wouldn’t get what I want if a conservative won NY. For this to happen there would need to be a mass exodus of democrats abandoning their party to vote conservative. So for that to happen either the democratic candidate is God awful or the conservative is a homerun. Either way I dont give a fuck.
I vote for my interests in state and local elections. Presidential elections in NY are the least concerning elections as they should be for every fuckin American.
This, comments like “Presidential elections in NY are the least concerning elections as they should be for every fuckin American” is how you know someone is a kid. Saying the presidential election is the least concerning election? The guy who appoints Supreme Court Justices that shape our laws and lives? The guy who basically runs the country, don’t worry about that one. What the actual fuck lol.
Gave my age in the parent comment of the one you replied to mid-thread. Unless you already saw it and are asserting that my age qualifies me as a child! In that case, my receding hair line is flattered!
Overreacting to comments that don’t align with your own doesn’t give away age but sure as shit shows your maturity.
Read my parent comments for better context and if you need help understanding the fundamentals of federal, state and local elections, I’m happy to explain further! 🍻
Well first, you can lie, it’s the Internet, it’s known to happen from time to time. You could be older but I find that idea worrying and a little depressing.
Secondly, me pointing out that saying “presedetail elections should be the least concerning to everyone” is just straight ignorance. I mean you don’t even seem to understand the impact of the Supreme Court on every day citizens alone (abortion rights much) and how they are appointed, why would I bother sift through your nonsense comments lol.
Either way, hope you get some good information/education from all the responses people are giving ya! 🍻
So you didn’t read the comments that added context lol. Starting to think this is more of a reading comprehension issue lol.
So Ill give you the outline:
I live in NY.
There would have to be like 5 million democrats voting republican to even create a scenario where my voting 3rd party affected the outcome.
NY goes democratic every election no matter what my vote is for. For that reason the presidential election is the least important election.
The quote you keep taking out of context emphasized the importance of voting for EVERY elected official because even with Roe v Wade over turned nothing has changed where I live for how abortions are handled.
Yes, so let me introduce this concept called “swing states” where it is not like NY. There, votes matter. So them voting does matter and have an impact. Either way, even if you know your state will go one way, the outcome of the election is still very impactful to citizens.
You said the presidential election should be the least concerning election for everyone. That’s just wrong. Swing states have power and the president can impact everyone. It is very consequential to multiple people.
If you’re upset that NY is always blue blame republicans who are against getting rid of the electoral college and having rank choice voting.
Or you can just keep insulting me because I disagree with you, that’s a very Republican move.
But sure, over turning Row v Wade hasn’t impacted you directly so it doesn’t matter. No one should be concerned about the president because big changes to law haven’t impacted you so they shouldn’t matter to anyone. Jfc… Some people were impacted you know, you are aware of that right? And that was a direct result of the president that was elected selecting a conservative justice. But hey, it didn’t effect you so it shouldn’t matter to anyone right?
“Presidential elections in NY are the least concerning elections as they should be for every fuckin American.”
You can say I have a comprehension issues all you want, but you seem to think all voters shouldn’t care about the presidental election because it won’t impact you in NY, big lol.
If you want more than two options vote for Democrats in primaries that support ranked choice voting initiatives. As it stands, you realistically have a binary choice and until you have ranked choice voting that will continue to be true.
I know a full grown adult that does that in every election. Local elections, sure, I can understand, but he does that with all of them, Basically a card carrying communist that’s a useful idiot for right wing politicians.
Well, they aren’t alone. Blizzard and Activision is on my blacklist. As well as pretty much any studio own by Microsoft at this point… Oh, and Sony! Can’t forget about them.
Lol, all these GIMP haters who don’t seem to understand the goal was being on par with Photoshop when it was a desktop application. It works exactly like Photoshop always did. And I agree, selection makes sense. There were many apps that worked the same… Paint Shop Pro as well.
I guess the kids have all grown up with some other tools and would rather call things they don’t understand stupid than try to grasp where the tool came from.
I’m not sure how Krita is different but then again I haven’t used it. I installed it, saw it looked like a fork of GIMP, and stuck with what I knew. Which is probably what anyone who hates GIMP should do.
I was using Mac OS 9 at the time! But PS 7’s workflow was already pretty similar to what it is today, and far more intuitive than GIMP which I tried for the first time in 2006-ish.
Interesting. I remember trying a copy of newer Photoshop a few years and being genuinely confused by how layers worked as they’ve always been part of my flow.
The old versions of photoshop and paint shop pro were heavily layer based and selections were automatically a mask of the current layer as in GIMP so GIMP was easy for me to transfer too at the time.
I also find that intuitive is a relative term. Relative based on your own experience.
I mean, even if that was what they said, that would make it and things that function like it more intuitive to them, wouldn’t it? And someone who’s used to a different workflow would find it unintuitive.
Note where you said “only ever tried Gimp”, when they said they have, in fact, used Photoshop. Additionally, nowhere in that did they say they’ve not used anything else since then even, just not Photoshop.
But you think you’ve made some credible point here, and likely won’t back down no matter how wrong you are, so go ahead and respond telling me some twisted logic about why you’re right and I’m wrong and I can ignore it so you can walk away thinking you’ve won some useless internet points.
You said they admitted to NEVER using anything but GIMP. Your gotcha screenshot screenshot you’re spamming literally proves otherwise. It was the user at the top of this comment chain that never used anything but GIMP, not the one you’ve been replying to.
I also find that intuitive is a relative term. Relative based on your own experience.
That’s a very good point. As a counterpoint though, pretty much every other app (Affinity Photo, Photopea, even Krita to a certain extent) emulates the PS workflow, which makes GIMP feel even more odd. Its paradigm was probably OK in the early 00s but the world has moved on.
Yeah that’s fair. I’d have to figure out how people are getting on without layers, probably take myself back to basics and pretend I know nothing and see how the ‘learn from scratch’ track teaches these skills today.
OTOH, I also getting to the old dog point, not because I can’t learn new tricks, but because I have so many responsibilities I have little time to do so, which is another reason ideological camps like this form. Which frankly is the wrong reason for them to exist.
I should go figure out how the new apps work, but when I do need to do graphics (since its not my main bread and butter but usually an additional skill I need to help develop something) I habitually pull out the familiar to save time.
Totally understandable in your case. I’d like to see GIMP merge the PhotoGIMP project and make further modifications to bring the app more in line with current best practices. They could make the “classic” vs “modern” UI toggle-able on first launch. Its underlying functionality is not bad, but it’s just so far outside of what people are used to today. It’s like like asking a random 20-year-old to use dialup and Netscape Navigator.
The problem with that, though, is if they changed the workflow to be like Photoshop, it would leave those of us who know how to use Gimp but not Photoshop high and dry
Gimp is intuitive to me at this point because I have some idea of how it looks at raster image manipulation from using it off and on for years. I have no clue how to do things in Photoshop that I can do easily in Gimp. It may be the better user experience, I don’t know.
If they ever do that, I really hope they leave the option for it to work like classic Gimp in there, because people like me don’t actually do image editing that much overall and relearning would be painful for much longer than someone who can deep immerse themselves until they get it. I’d hate to do it but I think I’d have to stick with an old version if that happened without any way to keep doing things the same way
if they changed the workflow to be like Photoshop, it would leave those of us who know how to use Gimp but not Photoshop high and dry
That’s a VERY good point. I think a good example would be how Blender has evolved in the last decade or so.
It started out very “in-house” and unconventional, but it had very specific UX principles in mind rather than just aping “ThE iNdUsTrY”. Coming from learning 3D MAX to OG pre-3.5 Blender was really difficult. Right-click select?!
But like Blender, I feel like GIMP could benefit from having easily adjustable settings that could line up with what a particular user finds intuitive. Certain layer behavior seems to be the big one here. The settings are there, they’re just awkwardly small buttons or buried in menus.
(Adding the universal transform tool was a VERY nice jump in the right direction.)
Blender’s UI / UX overhaul caused a bit of screeching, but overall was instrumental in balancing accessibility with familiarity to existing users. It made those options very accessible and modular.
For instance, I always use left-click-select, but I use the “Blender way” for everything else. If someone’s coming from Maya? There’s the “industry standard keymap” for them.
To add to this, it’s not like other apps have just blindly copied Photoshop. Affinity Photo has shape tools that are far less convoluted than Photoshop but they still feel instantly familiar.
Even when they couldn’t stick to common patterns (such as the eyedropper tool) they still manage to communicate how the feature works just by designing intelligently, no Googling required.
But every time I’ve used gimp, common tasks feels like a collection of workarounds for missing features. Someone elsewhere in this thread asked how to place an ellipse and got told that wasn’t something commonly needed but to make a selection and fill it using the paint bucket tool (and a modifier key).
That solution is jankier than MS Paint, which at least offers you an actual tool and a short period where you can make non-destructive modifications to the stroke, fill, size and position.
But since you’ve technically got the circle you asked for, it’s treated as “people who don’t like GIMP are just haters” rather than “people don’t want to use bad tools for their job”
What this will mean is middle management will fire all the line managers. Your only contact with management will be through one of their AI’s.
[Robot Voice] Work harder! Your vacation is denied. Don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions! There’s no way your solution will work. Drive this bus off the cliff or find another job! Write a 15-page self-assessment of your accomplishments this quarter. Your performance review is 0 out of 5. Your pay is cut 10%. No, I did not read your self-assessment. I didn’t have time. Our company has failed. I’m giving myself a $2M severance. You are fired.
I already had our CEO send us a speech video of him made with ML during a all-hands, although he said just afterwards it was made with ML. I fully expect this to become the norm in the future, even if we can tell the uncannyness for a while, they will not care.
I might report it but not name him. I know there is a chance that he could get sacked, I think the guy is a grade A moron but I’m not willing to ruin his life over it.
There’s consequences and then there’s ruining his livelihood. I’m severely pissed off but seeing him sacked won’t make me feel better. I don’t want revenge, I just want him to act like a professional.
He’s already ignored your requests to be more professional. You’ve already made it clear that his behavior is making you uncomfortable. I’m sure there’s a code of conduct or similar somewhere that he agreed to that would prohibit this bullshit. Fuck him. Whatever happens to him is on him at this point.
Consequences and revenge are not the same thing. If he doesn’t receive the direct consequences of his actions, he will not learn that he shouldn’t do that. Clearly he is incapable of learning via polite means. You are not the only person he’s doing this to, and it is not acceptable.
He chose to be a douche and is presuming on others to keep this under wraps so he can continue being abusive. Playing along with his secrecy game only helps the abuser. You have absolutely no obligation to keep this private, and moreover you have digital evidence in the form of a text message.
This person will obviously never be professional. How many others you work with are also traumatized by those videos but don’t say anything, I wonder. Get this scumbag fired for your coworkers if you won’t do it for yourself.
I’m UK too. As I see it your options are one or more of:
ignore the incident without comment and don’t give him the satisfaction of upsetting you;
block him so he can’t do it again. If he needs your number for other reasons then he gave up that right when he sent you that disgusting stuff; now he needs other routes, which you can block as needed;
raise the issue with your team leader or manager advising that you just want it to stop, you don’t want disciplinary action taken against him, but if he’s a repeat offender then the company might take it further anyway (which would be appropriate and correct);
DO NOT go to HR. They are not your friend or ally. They are there to protect the company and it’s just as likely you’ll be terminated as him. HR is a last resort, if you can’t get any satisfaction from management, and you keep suffering this kind of abuse (because that’s what it is; I’m not exaggerating), only then go to HR and even then only after notifying everyone concerned - the bully/bullies and your manager - that’s what you’re going to do.
If this cockwomble gets fired because of sending that video to you, you have nothing to be ashamed of. It’s his own stupidity that got him there, not you “grassing him up” or whatever other cockney nonsense you might have knocking around inside your noggin. You don’t owe that wanknugget anything, especially after he sent you stuff you explicitly said you didn’t want to see.
When life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons, what the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man who’s gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I’m gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!
Look into the benefits offered by your other credit cards. My identity was stolen a few years ago and I learned like a few months ago that one of my credit cards offers free identity protection services if/when your identity gets stolen.
They handle all of the annoying shit like contacting the bank, getting the debt off of your credit card, etc.
If not, and you were part of the Equifax (or any) hack, you likely have this same service available to you for free.
You want to have both hands free while moving or an extra dose of speed to go faster? With the Mobility Plus Package you can activate a variety of clever additional functions in the Mobility App.
With the Mobility Plus Package you can increase the support speed from 6 km/h to 8,5 km/h and benefit from the Cruise Mode that allows you to keep a permanent speed with only one deflection on the push rim.
Holy fuck!?!? The wheelchair is actually actively crippled if you don’t pay?
If you are able to crack software, this is the time to stand up and do actual real good for humanity !
Oh my god empress, I fell down that rabbit hole a while back hahaha. I mean I “cracked” the app now with luckypatcher but that’s only locally on my device, I’m not a true hacker even if the boomers I know in real life think I am lol
Yea the fun stuff is that it’s actually manually operated but it straight up blocks at the 6km or the 8,5. The 8,5 is decent enough but even when turned off the wheels feel ‘blocked’ so I can’t do a quick running contest with my husband. Not the wordt but at 6km it’s just average walking speed which means I can’t take a sprint when crossing the road.
Fun fact: it was stuck in 2,5km/h for months before I finally figured out the manufacturer manual because the actual wheelchair company didn’t know how it worked.
Because even if they actually had an income of zero, they had saved up enough money over the years to be able to survive off it for some time. Commonly referred to as a “war chest”. They don’t actually have an income of zero though, their income is actually quite significant since they still have major trading partners like Iran, India and China to sell their fossil fuels and other resources to. They don’t buy fossil fuels, incidentally, they sell them. Like Saudi Arabia.
Also, you can buy things with more than just money. People figure that Kim Jong Un probably isn’t trading his stuff to them for money, but instead is getting technological assistance from them. Just one of their modern fighter-bomber tech, for instance, would be immeasurably valuable to N Korea, where their own tech has lagged behind a good bit over the years.
Lastly, people in the west have been doing sanctions evasion. I recall some German financial/tech company has its CEO now wanted by Interpol for being a Russian agent. So, when your own people are playing fast and loose with the law, that’s going to make things like sanctions more difficult.
It’s just cable tv all over again. Pay for 8 services to get a handful of shows you want to watch with the other 90% not being touched , now with ads creeping back in too .
While I’m all for piracy (obviously), there’s always a choice. Decades ago when cable was going through this, TV was at the center of culture and absolutely everyone watched it.
That’s just not true anymore. Even aside from piracy, they have to compete for people’s time and attention with videogames, social media, and all sorts of other internet-based entertainment. I suspect a lot of the executives making these decisions don’t realize this - they think it’s still 20 years ago when having some of your biggest shows on your channel guaranteed a big audience. If they squeeze too hard people will just spend their time with other sorts of entertainment.
I think that the publishing industry is a good comparison - look at where it is now. It still produces stuff but its cultural relevance is a pale shadow of what it once was and its margins are razor-thin because few people are going to pay a premium even for a bestseller. I think that that’s the long-term fate of TV and movies, especially as the generation that was weened on them dies off and a new generation that watched much less growing up comes of age.
at least you can choose to pay for one streamer at a time, binge, switch, repeat.
(for now, anyway.. until they all quit the full season drops and/or start putting their catalog on a rotation like the 'disney vault' was to home video).
Yeah, this is what is next. Another thing might be to split up one service into subcategories, like family, sci-fi, cinema or whatever and then charging for each individually. Obviously ending up more expensive if you get them all than what it is now.
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