About damned time. I was checking the LGBT travel advisories a few months ago, and was surprised that the US was green. Absolutely no way should anyone be travelling to Florida.
This bs made it impossible to buy sodium nitrite, which is a very useful reagent as an amateur chemist. Like really can’t we just start blaming the people that use chemicals irresponsibly instead of the chemicals themselves, like they’re some anthropomorphic inherent evil out to get you.
I’ve been saying for years if we just said queer and trans we could pretty much capture the whole thing. In a lot of ways I think straight cis folks and corporate culture are some of the main drivers of the alphabet soup acronym because they can’t imagine saying queer.
for other categories doesn’t suffice, we also need * to represent, by wildcard, those that don’t fit any category, as well as - for those who fit the other letters/symbols but don’t want to identify with the rainbow mainstream (say, gay folks who aren’t fans of gay marriage)
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think even the LGBT+ community gets annoyed with it. It’s the media that seems to want to keep adding letters to this ever-growing acronym.
In my opinion, it just makes the whole thing seem more like a joke to the people who want to find reasons to dislike the movement.
People who are homophobic or transphobic don’t care what terminology we use. We could literally only use the word “gay” and they would absolutely continue to hate us.
Also, the use of progressive terminology originates within the queer community. 2SLGBTQ as an acronym began being used specifically to acknowledge two spirit people, who have faced a great amount of racism and queerphobia even from within the queer community. This term was neither invented by the media nor popularized by it.
Honestly, including people is why i prefer just saying queer over using acronyms. It’s completely open-ended, it doesn’t create a hierachy based on who gets named first and who ends up with one of the slots behind the LGBT that may or may not be included by a given speaker, it’s easy to use, it doesn’t shoehorn people into rigid categories and makes it easy to fit in for people who are questioning or have complex identities - and it pisses off the exact type of bourgousified, reactionary, assimilationist, racist, mysogynist, transphobic, biphobic cis gays that the farthead you’re replying to refers to when they bring up how supposedly “gay people shit talk” all of this.
That said, i don’t mind when ohter people go with the acronyms, and it often tells you a lot about the background of the person using it. Like, i see that it starts with 2S, i immediately know they’re Canadian because that’s the only place in the world doing that. Or when somebody still says GLBT like they did before AIDS, i know i’m reading a post from a cis gay boomer. And when i see something including LGBTT, i know they’re a transmedicalist and possibly from Southwest Germany and think you’re not valid if you don’t get bottom surgery.
same tbh, plus i find i trip over acronyms a lot and it gives Certain Assholes the feeling that they can use that as a vector for attack (“it’s so complicated even they can’t keep track!” etc)
supposedly “gay people shit talk” all of this.
worth mentioning scumfuck up there only added that bit after getting criticized for their bigotry. homophobes are all magically harvey milk’s favorite nephew the instant someone calls them out.
worth mentioning scumfuck up there only added that bit after getting criticized for their bigotry. homophobes are all magically harvey milk’s favorite nephew the instant someone calls them out.
Yeah that’s common, i see that a lot both online and irl and they always mean somebody like that one gay dude in their QAnon chat group who dates muslim men exclusively while also wanting to genocide them.
disagree, queer is not all encompassing. if you dont identify as queer but you still want to identify with the community the acronym is still the best descriptor. as for the order, i do support updating it by putting trans first and pushing bisexuals down the list in favor of pansexuals.
im not trying to do a bi erasure, bi people are valid. im just saying as someone who was bi sexual who later became pan sexual after learning about the term i just think changing some of the letters around would be good ways to raise awareness about different genders and sexualities in the acronym. so many people know what lgbt is but they dont really know the plus part. the first four are really important to the broader conception of gender and sexual identity as a whole. look if we can change the flag i dont think the acronym is sacrosanct either, i do however think we need an acronym.
i think lesbian, gay, and bisexual should be lower on the acronym. i think trans people should be first since they are receiving most of the targeting and attacks out of any group in the community right now, i think pansexuals, asexuals, and nonbinaries could really benefit from a representation bump. TPAN, rolls off the tongue. we can keep lgbt too. nobody got rid of the pride flag after the progress flag. both can exist at the same time. i just think its a representation issue.
I don’t follow - my understanding of the term is that it encompasses everyone who fits under the umbrella. if you’re not under the umbrella, the acronym isn’t going to fit either, no? can you give me an example of who you mean?
I’ve seen/heard of people specifically disavowing the term “queer” for their personal identity, but only a couple times and I, like others here, much prefer “queer” as a catchall term for brevity in all cases where there isn’t someone objecting to it being applied to them.
I’m guilty of using queer without considering who I’m talking to.
When I talk to boomer gays and use queer as a catchall term I’ve seen visible recoil.
To them queer was a slur similar to foxtrot-Oscar-gay-gay-oscar-triceratops (I can’t remember the phonetic alphabet) and was used to oppress and attack them at least in the UK.
And like yeaaah, it was even when I was in school up until like 2010s so its not as reclaimed with the older generation as we’d like to hope because of lived experience from what I’ve seen which is fair.
So as a result I don’t use it around older gay men and use the acronym since queer genuinely seems to bring back a lot of the 80s gay panic trauma for them I guess.
I’d liken it to when a cis friend called me triceratops-rain-alpha-november-november-yacht as a in-joke he assumed i knew since he knows a fair few trans people who are reclaiming that term on twitter but for me that word is full of trauma and I was like “nope, I’m not in that community please don’t ever say that again”.
I called him a chaser cos he has a trans gf and said it was reclaimed by friends of mine with trans gfs and he got the message why you can’t assume reclaimed words have the same gravity with each individual.
I guess I see queer in a similar vein, I guess the difference is the time since it was reclaimed is the big difference.
I don’t think we need a new umbrella term but I think it’s important for us to remember others experiences with reclaimed words before we assume them to be gospel (despite most gay publications I’ve seen using it fine).
yep totally fair. I mostly interact with younger trans people - a lot of the boomers are just straight up dead here because of how the government handled AIDS. so there isn’t the same kind of memory. like 40 is unfortunately the oldest I’ve met. it’s rage inducing to think about - I transitioned with literally zero wise elders around to provide guidance.
I transitioned with literally zero wise elders around to provide guidance.
Mood
I have however had enough moments of speaking to older gays in our cities gay town and was asked to be aware of the history of that term and it deffo made me go “ah m’bad”.
I get that for older gay people in English-speaking countries and i appreciate that you shared this. My perspective on this is rather different, as i’m from Germany and completely out-of-date English slurs are obviously not something people here normally have a personal trauma from. On this side of the North Sea, the people who take objection to the term queer are mainly assimilationists who don’t want to be lumped in with anybody who is too flamboyant, loud and gender-nonconforming for their straight friends and business partners, or they’re outright terfs who love to make up stuff about how lesbianism is erased by the queer agenda (ofc most of the time these aren’t even lesbians, and if you see them at a counterprotest to a Dyke* March, odds are they are paid to be there by one of the European fronts for the Heritage Foundation). So i’m not used to needing to pay attention to who i piss off with the term, because my experience is that it reliably pisses off people i want to piss off.
That’s really interesting, I guess my perspective is shaped by my material conditions niko-dunk
Lmao but genuinely that’s really interesting. Admittedly this thread is the first time I’ve heard it’s not pecieved in the same way which says to me I’ve fallen for a British (but positioning itself as the “International community”) position so it’s given me some things to think about as hearing its being weaponised by reactionaries makes me feel the ick now.
Likewise, i’m feeling kinda icky because my previous opinion towards the term kind of brushed over the trauma queer elders had to endure. Because it originally wasn’t the international term it is now, it was something that gay people abroad probably knew about, but definitely not something your average bigot in a rural central-European village yelled at you when he thought your pants where too fancy to make him feel secure in his fragile masculinity. So i was under the impression that people still alive today just had no direct, hurtful experience with it like with other slurs.
I’m sure you’ll find them in the anglosphere too. I’ve seen a few threads of twitter. Possibly just Germans though, since they tend to have good English.
It’s literally a catchall term for anybody who’s not het, cis, allo or endo.
pushing bisexuals down the list in favor of pansexuals
As a bisexual trans woman exclusively dating t4t, let’s NOT start the “bi is actually transphobic, you should call yourself pan” nonsense debate. It always leads to awful bad faith discussions, pushes bi erasure and completely ignores any and all actually transphobic dating behavior, of which there is plenty, none of which is connected to calling yourself bisexual.
Why would you change the order? It implies some level of arbitary importance to certain unique struggles over others which I don’t think is healthy while we all share the same acronym.
Also L should stay at the front because that relates more to gay history and the allyship shown by women during the AIDS epidemic to provide blood to sufferers and L comes first to honor that.
BREAKING: China’s new Bureau of Gender has announced 121,890 new genders. Furthermore, the PM announced yesterday “Every Christian church in Shanghai will be replaced by a gay club.”
You named yourself after a washer as best I could tell, not quite sure what point you’re trying to make. Are you also gonna bump your name out a bit to get with the times or are you gonna grow old and mad with the years?
I love how people like you piss and cry over LQBTQIA+ which is an 8 letter acronym but managed to learn the higher amount of letters in an alphabet and didn’t act like a whiney piss baby then.
I bet you’ll be able to tell me encyclopaedic knowledge of either gaming, sports, TV, movies or programming depending on your interests though.
I wonder how many fucking numbers and letters they will keep adding over the fucking years.
Numbers and letters over the years:
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself”
Galations 5:14
“Be genial, sweet and kind towards your companions.”
Mino-ī-Kherad, II.7
“For my people are foolish; they know me not; they are stupid children; they have no understanding. They are ‘wise’—in doing evil! But how to do good they know not.”
unless one of the frothing right-wing psychos who’s full up on nazi propaganda decides you’re a groomer and hate crimes you, which can happen in any state in the u.s.
It’s nice that you link to the site that puts out the trans murder monitoring. You should probably look up how the USA usually scores in that before you embarass yourself further.
Because these are the games of politicians. Try being trans in rural China, India, pretty much anywhere in the African continent or anywhere in the middle east. Come visit and see if you’d like. I’ve been to these places and if you don’t believe me look at other travel advisories. The risk to travelers is being blown out of proportion and just because the media is doing this it doesn’t mean that educated individuals hanging out in Lemmy communities need to propogate this garbage. Do I want politicians to get their shit together? Yes! Do travelers need to eat up the media fear that pours out like a fire hose these days? No, it’s rubbish.
I’m not saying that other parts of the world are all safe, i’m saying that it’s entirely proportional to issue a travel warning for the US, and that you’re deliberately downplaying the rise of institutional and societal transphobia in Amerika.
Recommend doing a bit of real traveling. As far as things go on a global scale a lot more FUD comes out of the US because it is an absolute media machine and everyone has their eyes glued on it at all times. As far as real world acceptance of LGBT it doesn’t get much better anywhere globally than California. In my experience other than perhaps, some select parts of Western Europe, the comfort level for LGBT travelers is much higher in the US than most places. There are cesspools like Florida that stand out, but this travel warning is largely propaganda.
I’ve been harassed and attacked in one of the safest cities for queer people in the US - it’s only safe anywhere in the country if you’re white. so no, this isn’t true.
The amazingly free and open USA makes it difficult for American citizens to visit Cuba, which treats gay and trans people better than any state in the USA.
How do they make it difficult? I know several people that have visited and had no issues to complain of. I was half joking about the Florida thing, just going through the airport there probably wouldn’t be as bad as walking the streets.
“It’s Florida and Texas and red states that are the problem,” I tell myself as my entire country continues to collapse in a thousand different ways. “It’s Florida and Texas and red states. If we just had 60 Democrats in the senate and a more moderate SCOTUS (like in 2008), everything everywhere would be perfect! I mean, just look at all Obama managed to accomplish during that time! Endless drone strikes, corporate welfare, and a health care “plan” endorsed by the Heritage Foundation that made no difference to health insurance prices (which continued to rise as though nothing had happened) and left tens of millions of people uninsured or underinsured and which led to tens of thousands of deaths over the years due to lack of coverage—and that was before the pandemic even started! It’s not the system designed by genocidal slave owners that’s the problem, we just need to get rid of the corrupt elites and replace them with GOOD elites and everything will work itself out!”
What do you mean? Some massive nerd on here the other day was telling me how its totally easy to move, and people who don’t are just choosing to stay poor and marginalized!
I live less than 2 hours from the Canadian border in one of the most progressive states and there’s trucks in town painted red white and blue with 3% logos and the moaning labia shit.
There’s another one with two stickers on the back window “kill your local pedophile” with somebody getting shot execution style and “democrats are pedophiles”
Everywhere in America 30 minutes outside a major city is like that.
Moan abe or however they took it. Means come.and take it apparently it’s what the Spartans said to the Persians at Thermopoli.
An ironic line because if you learned history from something other than a homoerotic Zac Snyder movie you would know the Persians responded with “k” then killed them all
then sparta lost their king, his honor guard, the elite of their army AND a highly defensible pass that they were supposed to be able to hold for months ortega-clap and this all happened in a few days.
Yeah, those are hillbillies - they are all over the place. Many of them are actually homosexual believe it or not. If we are talking bumper stickers though, can’t say I’ve come across many anti-LGBT ones. Mostly confederate flags and black and white flags with blue stripes all in the generic grab bag of generalized hatred. I stay away from those people / areas as it’s just not my crowd, but not sure what this has to do with the safety of LGBT visitors to the US. Linking these stickers to that is a pretty broad sweep.
Yup - northern state, near Canada, usually blue voters. Regularly see thin blue line stickers, confederate flags, punisher skulls, thin blue line themed punisher skulls, “protect our children” slogans n shit…hell I’ve seen at least a couple black suns on cars around here, which is a lot more mask off than I expected (and waaaaaay more alarming)
Until Democratic centrists sacrifice trans people to pass various “must pass” bills after House GOP reps put poison-pill regulations into them and try to make a new Hyde Amendment, prohibiting Federal support for gender-affirming care and opening the door to outright legal discrimination federally.
And that’s assuming they don’t lose the Senate/Presidency.
Total exceptions? No. But many states still allow people to get reduced sentences via the gay panic defense for killing LGBTQ people. That, and some politicians are encouraging hate crimes against them with hateful rhetoric about them being “groomers” and whatnot.
But many states still allow people to get reduced sentences via the gay panic defense for killing LGBTQ people.
You say that like it’s explicitly allowed by the state. It isn’t. It’s a legal defense lawyers use in court. Whether or not it’s legitimate is determined by a jury.
Are other countries juries exposed to our media ecosystem (in the same way) which the US government supports and which pushes vile transphobia constantly?
don’t know what? laws that criminalize being queer should be stricken from the books and the people who do hate crimes should be punished. both of those elements are being rolled back in the US and you’re being obtuse.
Meanwhile in reality, there is still plenty of shit on the books that will be enforced again if the conservative Supreme Court changes precedent and new laws are being passed with the ultimate goal of exterminating trans people.
You say that like it’s explicitly allowed by the state.
It is. Keeping it a valid legal defense is a policy choice. Some states banned it, they chose to. Other states have not, they decided not to. That’s politics.
You literally can, just like any number of other valid bases for objections to arguments put forward. If the judge rules it to be such a defense, it would be struck from the record and the jury instructed to disregard it, and if the lawyer keeps on it, they would be held in contempt of court. Furthermore, if it is plainly a case of such a defense and the judge lets it fly, the prosecution can claim mistrial.
Perhaps there are other ways of banning it, but that is the obvious one in the American framework.
legal and extralegal actions by the police are both effectively legal in the US because we effectively don’t prosecute police. as the laws illegalize queerness, what actions the police are permitted to take expands.
“Effectively legal” is not remotely the same thing as “legal”. Do the cops kill all sorts of people unjustly? Yes. That’s not the conversation we are having right now. The conversation we are having pertains to being queer in America and it’s supposed dangers. And not just “dangerous” but dangerous to the extent that a country issues a warning to a group of people about literally just entering an entire country of 300 million people.
To treat it as a valid legal defense is an abomination and judges have countless times ruled in favor of the perpetrator on just the basis of that defense.
Do you understand how precedent works in the US court system? I mean, I fully agree that US judges and laws are corrupt, but it doesn’t change the fact that those laws and judges are still upheld by the state
We’ve already been over this several times now, there are no homophobic laws in the US.
The topic of conversation is a warning to “queer” people about going into the US, as if it is more dangerous than the country they’re leaving. So yes, it matters.
Red states are dangerous for any nonwhite male. Women? Traveling to a red state and get raped? Whelp better hope you don’t find out that you are pregnant while still in the state. LGBTQ+? Whelp, better hope no one knows your sexual identity or you could be denied life saving medication or could be jailed for simply using the wrong bathroom. Black? Whelp, people are literally hunting you while you try to pick up snacks at the local dollar general.
Except, the truth is that this has happened twice in two years and those are only the mass shootings in which African Americans were explicitly targeted.
Florida holds a unique status within these states, with travel advisories warning against visits. The “do not travel” recommendation extends to even connecting flights through Florida. As of July 1, transgender individuals could face up to a year in jail for using the bathroom that aligns with their gender identity. This risk persists even for those who have legally altered their identification documents. The state retains the power to investigate an individual’s birth gender to determine if a crime has been committed simply by using the bathroom - investigations that could involve genital exams, chromosome testing, and more.
Wow, that’s some serious third world country shit. Horrifying!
It’s not just Florida, all of the other red states are trying to pass similar laws. The courts have been striking many of them down, though it’s only a matter of time until they find a way to write them vaguely enough that the courts don’t care.
Yes her map is good, I just wish it didn't show "states with a possibility in 2 years" in such a dark red color as it is misleading when compared to like... Actual bad states.
It is but… Which province? I help trans people get HRT and I know of/have lists of available doctors who will do it via informed consent in every province.
I know I’m a random internet stranger so don’t doz yourself here, but if you feel comfortable messaging me I’ll help out if you need.
I live in New-Brunswick, and there used to be Clinic 554 in Fredericton which did informed consent, general trans healthcare, and abortions, but they closed down due to lack of funding.
The way it generally works here as per my friends on hormones is you get a letter of recognition from a WPATH-certified mental health professional, and then get a referral to an endocrinologist via your family doctor. Navigating the NB healthcare system sucks for everyone, but trans patients are even more limited.
I’m glad to hear there’s another avenue for people other than waiting to see an endocrinologist (they have pretty long wait lists here) but from what I can gather you still need a referral from another healthcare professional, contrary to Clinic 554 which did do self-referrals.
I believe that’s a little knee jerk. My brother, who is a real rough and tough redneck type of guy, is researching it to see what it really means. He wants to understand what implications could lay ahead when voting either way. To call someone racist for wanting critical analysis and clarity doesn’t help. In fact, it drives division, in my opinion.
The official booklet provides a summary of the main points for both sides, each given 5 pages. That said, there has been a lot of criticism about how these points have been explained and published, so it's not a perfectly balanced explanation from either side, but it's a start. https://www.aec.gov.au/referendums/files/pamphlet/referendum-booklet.pdf
As you can see from comments, if you try to offer any considerations about the No side, someone from the Yes side will call you a racist.
We need to have a vote on this because it is a constitutional change. There have been a few advisory bodies over the years, but then the opposition gets into power and they kill them off. Having it enshrined in the constitution means that will no longer be possible.
The details really aren’t that important. How the body is compromised isn’t going to be part of the constitution. And frankly, as a white person, it isn’t really my place to tell indigenous people how they should put this advisory body together. They’re not in parliament. They aren’t voting on bills. They don’t have veto rights. They just have a channel where they can speak on topics under discussion.
Before anyone starts to say even this is too much power, ask yourself how much power Rupert Murdoch should have. Because he and every other billionaire in the country has a pretty loud voice.
Not a lot is going to change from this. Why bother then? Listen to or read of the Uluru Statement From the Heart. It’s only a page long. There is no hidden agenda. 300+ first nation tribes from around the nation got together to make it.
And as a blue blooded, god feering, gun toting, truck driving, steak eating, pussy grabbing, anti-woke, America first, patriot like myself that is exactly what we want. -s
Those laws basically say it’s OK to shoot someone if you feel threatened. You can practically get away with murdering someone for looking at you the wrong way.
Fine, maybe I misinterpreted why people think it’s OK to shoot at people for knocking on their door or pulling into the wrong driveway. I still don’t want to go to places where people are likely to do that.
Kinda weird to be randomly knocking on doors, but to each their own. The country is also massive, just visit the nice states. Depending on where you live, youd be just as likely to be stabbed then shot at for knocking on a door.
I’m not moving anything. You think because a couple of people, in a country of 300 million killed by done crazy dude when they knock on his door, that the whole country is at risk. It’s a completely preposterous position. And this is not an exclusive risk to the US.
GO. It’s a Federal Government department that is jointly run by the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of International Development, and the Minister of International Trade. Putting out travel advisories is part of their mandate.
Most Canadian GO follow a [Purpose] Canada naming scheme. If you want a SIN (equivalent to an SSN) you got to Services Canada. You get your weather warnings from Enviroment Canada. Drugs are related by Health Canada. Natural Resources Canada does the obvious. Parks Canada does National Parks. Transport Canada does highways and waterways.
This is an official government warning confirmed by the Deputy Prime Minister. From the source:
Asked why the guidance had been updated, Canadian Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland told reporters in Atlantic Canada that the government employed experts “to look carefully around the world and to monitor whether there are particular dangers to particular groups of Canadians”.
She declined to comment when asked whether there had been discussions with the US government before making the change.
I heard a right wing sound bite on the radio a while back where they were saying “if you’re unsure and don’t know just vote no” Instead of informing and educating. Just put your head back in the sand. Inspiring stuff.
I’m sad for the indigenous folk that will have to go through this nonsense much like our queer friends did during the run up to the gay marriage plebiscite.
bbc.co.uk
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