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Iran launches drone attack against Israel as Biden rushes to White House

Iran said it launched dozens of drones and ballistic missiles towards Israel on Saturday in a major attack following days of acute tension building up in the region and warnings from the US and elsewhere about a wider conflict erupting.

Air attack warning sirens began wailing over Jerusalem just before 2am local time on Sunday after the weapons were fired a few hours earlier from Iran with US and Jordanian military assisting Israel’s air defenses in intercepting the first incoming barrage.

With weapons believed to be still in the air en route to Israel, Iran’s mission to the United Nations posted on X: “Iran’s military action was in response to the Zionist regime’s aggression against our diplomatic premises in Damascus. The matter can be deemed concluded.”

However, it threatened more severe action in the face of further Israeli aggression and warned the US and Jordan specifically not to assist Israel.

MBFC
Archive

Edit: here are links to the NYT and BBC live feeds.

Edit 2: updated summary and archive to reflect article changes.

paraphrand ,

“Firing drones at” is a new phrase for me.

Churbleyimyam ,

I heard about this on the radio while I was eating and thought “fuck yeah, big news, looking forward to reading about it online in a bit!”

Totally forgot immediately and instead been looking at dank memes and making incendiary comments in posts about american political issues.

assassin_aragorn ,

Fuuuuuuuuck.

Iran has all the right in the world to do this and is justified in doing so, but I really wish they hadn’t. Hopefully the attacks can be intercepted, and that’s that. Escalation benefits no one at all except Netanyahu and the Ayatollahs.

The best case scenario here is that everything is intercepted and Israel stands down from doing anything else. And, Jordan and the US and the UK use this moment to force Netanyahu to stop the genocide. This attack highlights just how reliant Israel is on its allies, and why it should listen to them when they say it’s time to stop.

We should be threatening to not act next time unless he completely capitulates and does a full withdrawal – and if he refuses, we keep our word and leave them to themselves.

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

I know Israel is a small country of only 10M people with a traumatic history surrounded by enemies…so they need to act tough in their neighbourhood, take no shit and all…but they start to feel like the tiny angry girlfriend who dates a big guy and picks up fights in every bar expecting everyone to be afraid that her date will come to the rescue every time…

matcha_addict ,

Painting Israel as a victim just for having a small population / geography… I don’t know about that. They’ve committed far too many massscres since their inception to be portrayed like that.

CanadaPlus ,

They were victims of the Holocaust. They were aggressors in the Nakba. They were probably victims one or more times after that, as well as aggressors (I’m a bit fuzzy on that history, honestly), and now they’re aggressors doing a “proportionate genocide” in Gaza. And they want to start shit with Iran, which might just be a case of two assholes fighting each other.

beardown ,

Jews were victims of the Holocaust

Zionists were aggressors in the Nakba

Don’t conflate Judaism with Zionism

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Yeah, but Zionism is a Jewish movement, and I doubt there were many Zionists who got through the Holocaust unscathed. It was the major motivating factor for actually doing it, so it is a big part of the picture.

Signed, a (technically) Jewish anti-Zionist.

beardown ,

Zionism is a Jewish movement

It’s a movement that concerns followers of Judaism. But plenty of Zionists are Evangelicals etc. And Zionism has always had support from Non-Jews, dating back to its 19th century origins

CanadaPlus ,

I actually don’t know much about the history of non-Jewish support, come to think of it. I should look into that.

CommanderCloon ,

Stop giving in to the narrative that Israel equates to Jews. Jews suffered the Holocaust. Israel does not benefit from the suffering endured by a distinct group

CanadaPlus ,

Inequivalent, yes, distinct no. The founding of Israel and especially the settlement had a lot to do with the Holocaust. That doesn’t justify the Nakba, but if someone is trying to make one side out as always the villain they’re basically part of the problem we’ve had this whole time.

We’re all people. Just ordinary people, like you’d meet in a grocery store, but also capable of horrendous things.

livus ,

The tiny angry girlfriend who is also killing children and old people in her basement?

CanadaPlus ,

I’m not quite sure how to fit Netanyahu into this analogy, but that’s also a factor. The dude doesn’t want to go to jail and it looks like he has no problem flattening the Middle East if it helps prop him up.

Wanderer ,

Seems like no one in Israel has any issues with following orders.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

but they start to feel like the tiny angry girlfriend who dates a big guy and picks up fights in every bar expecting everyone to be afraid that her date will come to the rescue every time…

Lol, I called them US’s little Chihuahua dog that rabidly barks at any moving object

MyEdgyAlt ,

Chihuahuas don’t kill so many children.

cybersandwich ,

So pitbull then

Grandwolf319 ,

Let’s be honest, they would if they could.

Land_Strider ,

Also they have started the hostilities and made enemies of neighbors, not like they weren’t offered a fair share of land even in the face of them settling in there because the big ex-boyfriend just forced so.

Jamil ,

Israel is an apartheid. Stop falling for the Holocaust sympathy propaganda. The country is rotten to the core and doesn’t represent Jews.

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

It is an open air prison, no doubt about that. Yet the apartheid in this case did not arise out of pure racism, but as a reaction to a history of constant suicide bombings. Besides, there are 2 million palestinian israelis living peacefully inside Israel…but there is also a part of Israel that does not help their case either by covering for every nationalist invading the West Bank or the cruelty they allow to go unpunished e.g. Shireen Abu Akleh.

Jamil ,

It’s an apartheid, but it’s good. Get out of here.

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

What would you have done?

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I personally wouldn’t have used mass murder and eviction to create an ethnostate aka Israel. Israel then has proceeded to annex more land against all treaties, blocks aid from entering Palestine and routinely murders Palestinian civilians. Are you saying Israel had no other options?

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

Yes, I agree it should not have been done, it is the UN’s original sin. But now it is there, survived lots of attacks from its beighbours, lots of jews were expelled from e.g. arab countries to shelter there, you just can’t go back.

I’m asking what you would do if 20% of a country next to you kept trying to kill you (hamas wouldn’t even be happy with Palestinian statehood, they just want Israel wiped off the map).

I’d “build a wall”, stop weapons going in and let them be until they calm down somehow…but that’s not what Israel did anyway…and hamas got over the fucking wall anyway, so here we are…back to 2007 again.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

They didn’t just do that though, they funded Hamas, allowed them to recieve weapons, refuses to recognize any sort of Palestinian statehood, pursued policies that enabled the most extreme factions of Palestinian resistance and thwarts any attempt at lasting peace. There is a long-term plan in the works by Israeli forces to annex all of Palestine. Israeli officials from top to bottom have made it clear they want to eliminate Palestine as an idea.

What would you do if you were Palestinian?

Jamil ,

Stop being an apartheid and have a truth and reconciliation process to correct the wrongs done to the Palestinians.

Gsus4 , (edited )
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

I stopped looking at this problem through the lens of morality, it just leads you into a paralyzing spiral of blame and righteousness, because you have millions of people who don’t even know their borders, their status, their rights, an israeli military that is not sure where their jurisdiction and authority ends, a divided capital (that in itself is a stupid diplomatic trap by design, who the hell thought that would ever work?). This was a political failure in the making born from the utopian lack of vision of the birth of the UN: a political trap for anyone that gets near it, which can also be weaponized into political ammo by outside forces.

Probably the only solution starts by disabling the first layer of the trap: a palestinian state with its own official borders (which is its own problem, because there is no contiguity…legacy of the stupid original bipartite design), some form of limited military, navigation rights, release Marwan Barghouti, etc …and then you pray that hamas does not win the elections and immediately declare jihad on Israel :/ , but at least then there will be some clarity about what to do in terms of what we want states to act like with each other.

Madison420 ,

Pretty sure isrealis were the first to bomb given that they were doing it before their country existed and then took terrorists as national heroes and military leaders.

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

Ok… great … as if the problem wasn’t complex enough, there were/are? also crazy jewish bombers :/

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The point is, you stated the apartheid was a response to bombings, but Zionist terrorists were bombing and killing Palestinians before the Israeli state existed, and those terrorists were rewarded by the West and put into positions of power in Israel. After which there has been continued resistance by Palestinians.

ryven ,

So, uh, are we doing World War 3 now? Just asking because I need to know if I should be canceling my summer plans and investing in canned food.

JesusSon ,
@JesusSon@lemmy.world avatar

No, that shouldn’t start until the Summer of '25

AeonFelis ,

No. Sorry. This is Cold War II.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

Analysts are literally calling it that

orphiebaby , (edited )

Cold wars don’t have direct conflict. Nevermind.

beardown ,

Yes they do, just not directly between the primary powers

The US invaded Vietnam and the USSR invaded Afghanistan during the Cold War. Conflicts are standard

orphiebaby , (edited )

I stand corrected. But in my defense, the dumb online dictionary backed up what I thought– after I got past “The Cold War”, anyway. Stupid search engines…

Azal ,

Honest answer, should’ve been investing in canned food yesterday. Today is the next best day to start.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

I have trouble seeing anyone risking escalating this beyond the Middle East, so not exactly. Millions could die there, though, and Europe still relies pretty heavily on the Gulf for fuel.

pelerinli ,

I am not expecting a full scale war on “developed” countries up until China does something. Because, you know, it is against capitalism.

Topipolous , (edited )

So now the Zionist spam brigades have started infesting Lemmy as well judging from some of the comments here. Very sad to see that. Last time I checked on Reddit it was already unbearable there.

This is really bad news, and by no means do I support Iran. But the attack on Irans embassy should have caused sanctions and condemnations. Instead Biden rushed to defend Israel as if Israel wouldn’t have started this.

I can’t believe what a fucking tragedy this is. With the US elections upcoming, Biden being prepared to die on this hill is what may actually cause that Trump wins and the US turns into full on fascism. Needless to say Trump won’t do jackshit for Palestinians either.

assassin_aragorn ,

I think it’s fair to rush to intercept. It’s a purely defensive action, and if they’re able to intercept the entire barrage of attacks, Israel may not retaliate. It’s in everyone’s best interest – Iran included – that this doesn’t escalate even farther and farther.

Iran had all the right to do this, but that doesn’t mean they should have. The ideal situation would be for the US and company to prevent attacks from landing and then telling Israel to end their genocidal operations unless they want to face the next wave themselves.

And if Israel refuses, then let Netanyahu handle it himself. Make good on our threat to not help.

matcha_addict ,

Unfortunately, I’m not certain it’s in Israel’s best interest that this doesn’t escalate. They can probably do serious damage to Iran whereas the reverse is far less certain (evidently from this attack). And they knew very well that their embassy attack will bring Iranian retaliation. Now they’ll just use that for an even greater response.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

From coverage I just read:

The U.S. has no doubt Israel will respond whether lives are lost or not. And that Iran itself will be targeted.

My hot take: at least Iran didn’t shoot down its own civilian airliner this time thinking they were taking out a US bomber or whatever. My fear is that Iran thinks it’s ordained by Dog to restore Islam to its rightful place (read: cleanse Israel of all the Jews and and put decent Muslim folk in charge of all the holy piles of rocks), and maybe that means their strategic calculus isn’t exactly sober. Perhaps they think they can win a war with Israel, what with Dog on their side, and they absolutely cannot. Iran has said they are willing to let this wave of attacks be the end of the matter so let’s hope they are sober enough to not keep going blow for blow. So far it seems to be a proportionate response by Iran (given that almost nothing seems to have made it through (though I am not sure what their targets were, specifically)). I’d like to see Iran have a nice Arab spring and see the Supreme Leader get the respect he deserves just like Gaddafi, but I’d be just ducky if it could be a drone strike. Hopefully this doesn’t devolve into utter catastrophe and a cascade of failed states.

Ultragigagigantic ,
@Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

“You’re out of office and getting prosecuted right away when this war is over!”

Netanyahu:

AA5B ,

Starting a two front war is never a good idea. Israel has the advantage over any single country in the region but it would be stupid of them to escalate that into multiple countries.

bluewing ,

This drone attack by Iran may have more to do with “showing” it’s little vassal terrorist groups it’s prodding and bankrolling into doing Iran’s dirty work that Iran is “doing” something militarily in support of Hamas and the Houthi.

What is a drone strike that is going to take 8 to 10 hours to arrive supposed to accomplish when it’s so easy to spot coming well ahead of time. It’s not like Iran doesn’t have missiles that can hit Israel in a handful of minutes if Iran really wanted to do damage.

AA5B ,

I’d say the best that could be hoped for is Israel shoots everything down.

  • Iran got their revenge
  • Israel wasn’t harmed
  • As a US citizen, I’m fine with encouraging this part of the war to end with “sure, we’ll replace all the missiles Israel used to defend themselves”

Before everyone attacks me, remember that anti-aircraft missiles are good for defense but not offense.

aodhsishaj ,

They’ve been here for a while. Try reading new posts and find the negative vote comments. Same for y’all-queda and the qultists and white supremacists, and tankies, and most misinformation campaigns. It is the internet after all.

livus ,

They’re being a bit futile. If your default sort is active it doesn’t hide any downvoted comments.

And if you’re on an instance like Kbin or Beehaw, downvotes don’t even affect vote count because the downvotes are not federated.

ShepherdPie ,

God I hope this place doesn’t turn into something like Voat where it’s just another 4chan like environment filled with all the users banned for posting racist shit and CP.

Cryophilia ,

Nah, mods here are pretty liberal with the banhammer.

Banned for calling mods liberals

TexasDrunk ,

Yep. They had CP come through a couple of the communities and they locked that shit down pretty quickly.

Some motherfuckers don’t know how to act.

Ultragigagigantic ,
@Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

Blue conservatives.

TokenBoomer ,

Who do you think the tankies support in this conflict? Or, is this just poisoning the well to help Israel / US?

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

“Tankie” doesn’t coincide with any distinct political bloc, it’s essentially a buzzword to discredit leftists that are claimed to support authoritarian regimes. But what one might call a tankie in this instance would support Palestine as ‘tankies’ are against the US and their proxies.

narp ,

Someone who supports Palestine and is against the US is not automatically a Tankie. But if this person at the same time makes excuses for the Russian invasion or argues that Taiwan belongs to China, then they are.

Hypocrisy (lying / arguing in bad faith) is exactly what makes the difference between a leftist and a Tankie.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You are correct, and it is used that way, what I’m saying though is there isn’t a distinct definition, it’s used differently by different groups and so only really serves to muddy discussions and shun ideological outsiders.

kamenoko ,

The same embassy that was full of Hezbollah? Iran is a terrorist state that sponsors terrorism.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Based on what evidence? Even if it were, an attack on an embassy or consulate is akin to attacking their territory. If Israel has a right to retaliate against Hamas then Iran has every right to retaliate against Israel.

kamenoko ,

The Iranian General they killed planned the October 6th massacre near Gaza.

ShepherdPie ,

By terrorism you mean brown people committing acts of violence? This is a response to Israel attacking Iran much like the genocide in Palestine is a response to Hamas attacking Israel.

CanadaPlus ,

Terrorist is a meaningless word.

bamboo ,

It’s not completely meaningless, but it only means “people I don’t like”. It’s not anything objective.

InformalTrifle ,

Would you prefer Jihadist?

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Yes. But then you run up against the fact there’s plenty of Jewish holy warriors in Israel, including in the government, so it starts looking morally equivalent again.

kamenoko ,

If you had to pick between Israel and Saudi Arabia to move your family to which one would you choose?

CanadaPlus ,

Well, this is completely unrelated to the original point, but Israel. Which happens to get along okay with Saudi Arabia, and both of which hate the original subject of Iran.

Even as an atheist Jew, somewhere Muslim like Khazakhstan or Indonesia are still higher on my list, in part because they don’t have theocrats in government.

kamenoko ,

Can’t say they’re much higher on my list. I guess what I’m trying to highlight is that Israel is a lot closer to a functional democracy than any other state in the Middle East and advocating for the terrorists they’re fighting is really naive.

CanadaPlus ,

Again, terrorist is a meaningless word.

Historically, sure, but they’re definitely not heading that direction. As far as I’m concerned they’re just another state in the Middle East at this point.

CommanderCloon ,

Irrelevant, embassies are internationally protected sanctuaries.

kamenoko ,

So it’s okay to massacre 1200 civilians wherever, I don’t personally respect the international rights of Iran being they’re a terrorist state who does a lot of terrorism.

CommanderCloon ,

Irrelevant, embassies are internationally protected sanctuaries.

kamenoko ,

Except it wasn’t an embassy. You got worked.

anticurrent ,

Western media hypocrisy made it seem mike an ordinary thing to target embassies, which have a very particular status akin to targeting the homeland territory , some mainstream media barely touched upon the news or dismissed it completely, if it were any other country like Russia targeting an EU embassy in asia or Africa it would have been non-stop news and escalation. they manufacture the outrage on small issues and keep the people ignorant on more important ones.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

My local news straight up called these air attacks “Iranian aggression”. No, you fuckers, Israel went first this time. Usually it’s a slight slant but that’s just lies.

Maeve ,

"You furnish the pictures, I'll furnish the war!"

William Randolph Hearsts, the lot of them.

zenitsu ,

“went first”? Are we just sweeping under the rug Iran’s role on the 7th of October?

Daft_ish ,

Silliness to try and justify the taking of human life. No matter, “who started it.”

AA5B ,

But that’s an awfully simplistic take too. I’m not defending Israel’s actions, but if these officers have been involved in either “starting it” or even the continued war, taking of human lives, they are valid targets. Having them run and hide in a diplomatic building while continuing to participate in the war, continuing to take human lives, is surely frustrating. To the country whose lives they are taking.

I’m not trying to take Israel’s side here, just saying that you can’t just take this attack out of context

CanadaPlus ,

How far back do you want to go, lol? It’s easy to skip back to the last “tat” in a series of “tit-for-tat” that stretches back to the 40’s at least. The hardliners on both sides like to go back all the way to mythology, and while that’s obviously backwards it at least is intellectually honest.

zenitsu , (edited )

On the 6th there was a ceasefire, then what Hamas did on the 7th changed that. People going further back are apologists looking to justify the unjustifiable.

CanadaPlus ,

Wowee, that’s so arbitrary.

zenitsu ,

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/8ccccfed-c13e-4150-93a7-c1b27048d5d1.jpeg

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

“Embassies.”

occhionaut ,

Fuck off promptly

AA5B ,

I’ve seen the media careful to make a distinction between the embassy and “a consular building adjacent to the embassy”. I did a quick search expecting the to be the defense.

But international law is the real wtf. According to the Wikipedia entry

is the obligation of the country in which an embassy is located to protect the embassy, but international treaties do not expressly prohibit a third country to target diplomatic premises if they host combatants and are targeted in an act of self-defense, although a claim of self-defense cannot usually justify an attack on the territory of a country not participating in hostilities.

So, it’s Syria’s fault for not protecting diplomatic buildings? Plus Syria probably has a claim against Israel, whereas Iran doesn’t?

I’m sure Israel will attempt to argue self defense based on the targeted officers and however they may have participated in the original attack and involvement of Yemen, but that’s a pretty big stretch.

Jamil ,

This is all due to the breakdown of norms by allowing Israel to do whatever it wants. Respect for American soft power is non existent because of the double standard with Israel, Russia and the Middle East. Now American citizens get dragged into another war that they don’t want by the ruling class.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Not just allowing israel to do so, but providing them with weapons and now America and the UK are even intercepting any retaliation. Making sure nobody can fight back against the bully.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Would you look at the time. It’s april 13th the day history starts

HuddaBudda ,
@HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

How are those deescalation bombing missions going?

Oh.....

You mean, it didn't bring about a lasting peace in the region?

It's like anyone with 2 brain cells understood this was going to happen.

Rapidcreek , (edited )

Inflight Emergency (IFE) declared via squawk 7700 for USAF tanker, now returning to al-Udeid from over Iraq (electrical).

QUICK UPDATE:

  • Iran names the operation “The Promise of Truth.”
  • Israeli aircraft are positioned over western Iraq.
  • Interceptions have commenced over Jordan and Syria. A number of middle east Arab states announcing that they’ll knock down anything in their skies
  • Incidents of drones crashing in western Iraq have been reported.
  • Iranian media suggests that ballistic missiles will be launched from Iran in the early hours of the morning.
  • Airspace across the Middle East is closed
  • Al-Arabiya reports that British fighter jets are now involved in operation to interceptal Iranian drones launched against Israel
  • 6 p.m. ET Isreal should start to see missles, rockets and drones
avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

Iran has officially declared the start of the attack on Israel. “The evil regime will be punished,” its leader said.

LOL! Iran calling someone else evil is really something. I’m eager to see where this round of fuck around and find out ends, since Israel is not known for forgivness. Only good thing I see at the moment is that Iran maybe has to stop supporting the russians to save equipment for their own stupid war.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Oh no the FAFO israel lovers have arrived

NoIWontPickAName ,

I didn’t realize that whenever you punched someone else and they punched back that’s fucking around and finding out.

Israel started this, remember that.

The stupid fucking British are involved.

Everybody wants to kick off fucking World War III because Israel wanted to fucking destroy shit and then hide because they’re too tiny to do anything about it

MeanEYE ,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

By that logic Iran started this by funding Hamas and meeting with them. Israel responded, now they respond, then Israel will respond.

Corkyskog ,

I too can go back further in history, when do you draw a line?

MeanEYE ,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

Pick any place.

livus ,

Israel was also funding Hamas.

PhlubbaDubba ,

Yep, I’ve already placed my bets on Putin popping a vein over his entire reserve war material strategy going kaput over this

Wilshire , (edited )
@Wilshire@lemmy.world avatar

https://i.imgur.com/AmFfoIK.mp4

t.me/pravdaGerashchenko_en/31824

Iran has officially declared the start of the attack on Israel. “The evil regime will be punished,” its leader said.

Iran, the Houthis from Yemen, Syria, Hezbollah are performing massive strikes on Israel with drones and missiles. Over 200 combat drones and missiles are in the air - media.

Iran’s defense minister: “We will also perform a strike on those who open their airspace or territory to Israel to attack Iran.”

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/43e4722a-1f77-4cf2-beb0-0d2c090c1b95.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/vXnD4st.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/S7wyqlT.mp4

t.me/combatfootageua/15045

https://i.imgur.com/ar0X3jM.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/nyCprat.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/03MpxLF.mp4

t.me/yigal_levin/65257

maynarkh ,

Yeah, Iran sucks and everything, but didn’t Israel start this by bombing their embassy in Syria? If Israel had been held to account for that, maybe we wouldn’t be looking at yet another flashpoint involving a nuclear armed state.

I don’t know what anyone expected Iran to do here.

Billy ,

iran is funding and arming hamas, hizballah and the houthis, all of which were attacking israel.
in addition to their attacks on usa bases.

avater ,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

iran is funding and arming hamas, hizballah and the houthis, all of which were attacking israel. in addition to their attacks on usa bases.

don’t forget that those fucks also support Russia with their drones…

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

Yup. I've seen a disturbing amount of people pretending Iran are the good guys just because Israel are also the bad guys, as if it's impossible for multiple sides in a conflict to be awful

NoIWontPickAName ,

Wait, now you motherfuckers understand how multiple sides can be bad?

All I keep hearing from people like you is how Israel must be fucking great because fucking did something wrong so Israel can’t do anything else wrong

GBU_28 ,

That is absolutely not a popular sentiment here.

Cool it with the targeted language too

NoIWontPickAName ,

I don’t know who the fuck you think you are tell me to cool it, but you’re nobody.

I don’t give a shit if you’re a mod or the admin of this instance.

Ban and go about your damn day

TSG_Asmodeus ,
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

image

GBU_28 ,

Lol flail

kescusay ,
@kescusay@lemmy.world avatar

Who are “people like you?” I’ve seen plenty of people who are capable of recognizing that Israel’s behavior has been atrocious and Iran funds and sponsors terrorists and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Alto ,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

Homie go check my history, you'll see I am far from a fan of Israel and the IDF

NoIWontPickAName ,

Fair enough I got heated, mea culpa.

I apologize

breakfastmtn OP ,
@breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca avatar

The Good Guy Iran narrative is so bizarre. It’s like applauding someone for “showing restraint” because they hired a hitman instead of killing someone themselves.

disguy_ovahea ,

It’s also not covered within international law to fund an attack by independent groups, only sovereign nations.

Funding Ukraine makes it legally Ukraine’s action. Funding Houthis makes it legally Iran’s action.

Skyrmir ,

There are no good guys in the middle east. Only civilians that are angry about being shit on.

livus ,

no good guys

Yes there are. Hero doctors and nurses who risk their lives to save civillian patients. Aid workers. World Central Kitchen workers.

That’s the side we should be on.

Tryptaminev ,

don’t forget that those fucks also support Russia with their drones…

Maybe you didn’t know yet. But Israel sold $ 400 Million worth drones to Russia. And they have been used in the war against Ukraine by Russia. Meanwhile Israel did not sanction Russia after its invasion of Ukraine.

haaretz.com/…/0000017f-dbe8-db5a-a57f-dbea5c4b000…

jpost.com/…/report-russia-purchased-ten-israeli-d…

timesofisrael.com/ukraine-photos-claim-to-show-do…

Note that Israel continued to sell drones to Russia after the Crimea annexation by Russia. So it can also not be said, that they didn’t knew what Russia would do with them. Israel was happy to aid Russia’s invasion from the very beginning.

Altofaltception ,

Wasn’t Hamas created in response to Israeli aggression?

Not defending Hamas, but they don’t exist in a vacuum.

Sunforged ,

The religious extremism that became Hamas was funded and grew to power with Israeli funding.

This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)

KevonLooney ,

As usual in the Middle East, the answer is “it’s complicated”. Anyone claiming that either Israel or Iran is 100% good or 100% bad is wrong.

Glemek ,

And continued by Netanyahu himself: timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-…

Hyperreality ,

The Israeli far-right gained power in part due to Hamas, PLO and Hezbollah attacks.

It's an endless spiral of violence, reprisal and even more violence.

MxM111 ,

The goal of Hamas is not “to stop aggression” but to destroy Israel. So it was formed as response to Israel existence, to which many Muslims never agreed.

CommanderCloon ,

Israel is born out of aggression

MxM111 ,

Nonsense. It was born according to UN resolution (and League of Nations resolution as well). And since then the aggression was directed against Israel with multiple wars initiated by those who did not want to agree with the resolutions. If it were not for those wars many Arab/Muslim lives would be saved and there would not be a situation we are today. The situation with Palestine today is direct consequence of all that history because how Israel can trust an independent Palestine when Gaza ruling party has destruction of Israel as one of the main principle. The same principle that you seem to support by the way, thus supporting the cycle of violence with no prospects of peace.

maynarkh ,

Yes, it does, and it sucks. It’s basically war over there. That said, attacking an embassy is a line where Israel’s actions should have been condemned. The point is not that Iran is in the right in any way, the point is Israel is just as wrong here.

KevonLooney ,

Iran’s response isn’t proportional though. Israel made a single strike on military leaders using a nearby embassy. Launching dozens of drones is an escalation.

It’s not even a smart escalation. It allows Israel to claim they were attacked disproportionately and launch strikes on Iran’s actual military in country. Iran has much worse defenses against cruise missiles and drones. Now they may lose what sympathy they had from other countries.

I predict the US will free the ship Iran took today within a few weeks. Maybe the Navy will knock out all Iran’s anti-air radar in the south, just as a show of force, and then not attack anything. That would be a good way to tell them to stop without killing.

Sunforged , (edited )

The US just tried to negotiate with Houthis over the attacks in the Red Sea, an omission admission that things aren’t going so well. Iran is in a stronger position than Houthis, I think your over estimating the US right now.

GBU_28 ,

Well the whole premise is that the US is trying to play middle ground seacop (shittily). Obviously if they wanted to they could delete the existing houthi command/regime. (And thereby creating Arab quagmire new, electric boogalo)

cecinestpasunbot ,

That’s not so obvious. The US heavily supported the Saudi’s military campaign against Ansar Allah which ultimately failed. The US has since bombed them directly which has also failed. Like if the US didn’t have the capacity institutionally or otherwise to eliminate the Taliban why would Ansar Allah be any different?

Aceticon ,

Have you already forgot Afghanistan?!

Do you need to be reminded how well the US “deleted” the Taliban Poshtun leadership?

Because the Houtis in Yemen is a very similar situation, even to the point of the Houtis also being a mountain people, and they’ve already been enduring American and British bombs delivered by Saudi planes for years now.

The reason the US and Britain, after an initial couple of days of heavy and loud chest pounding, very quickly went very quiet about their attacks on the Houtis following the latter’s attack on shipping, is because it just wasn’t working all that well.

America’s ability to militarilly bully a group into compliance with American wishes relies on the targets being city people, who are pinned down and own shit they don’t want to lose, and doesn’t frigging work on mountain nomads.

CommanderCloon ,

There guys keep losing wars and fucking up internationally, yet still behave like they have presidency over everyone’s existence lmao

GBU_28 ,

I don’t think the warlords of the taliban are the closest available comparison. I also don’t think the mountainous terrain of Afghanistan is the closest available comparison.

That said, it would still become a huge mess, as I clearly indicated

Aceticon ,

You need to read more, A LOT more, to even begin to opinate on how easy it would be for America to “delete” the leadership of this Yemeni faction.

The northern part of Yemen is mountainous and these guys are tribal people from that area, who have taken over a large part of the rest of Yemen, to the point that Saudi Arabia directly intervened to try and stop them and have been at it for many years now (and it’s not working).

It’s not perfectly like Afghanistan (and it would never be, as it’s not Afghanistan) yet the whole situation is a lot more like Afghanistan, than, say Iraq, so your casual expectation that the US can “delete” them is ridiculous and seems to have no foundations other than nationalism and ignorance of the situation.

GBU_28 ,

No, I’m good. Simmer on the tone.

I made very clear it would not be a good thing. I’m not stanning for another middle east war.

The houthi faction has much more established infrastructure and footprint than the afghani Taliban ever did, and it was obviously that infrastructure i was referring to.

Further, the mountains of Afghanistan are much larger and more complicated than those of Yemen. I didn’t say Yemen is flat.

Aceticon ,

Let me put things another way: you originally made quite a tall claim that the US “if it wants could delete the Houthi leadership” and confronted with my point that in similar conditions not long ago the US failed to “delete” a leadership even though it wanted to, your whole argument is now “it’s not quite the same conditions”.

Of course it’s not the same: it’s a bloody different country.

The thing is, merely me pointing out a situation were the US failed to “delete” a leadership when it wanted to is enough to prove my point (and if you want another example, how about Vietnam) because I was never making the point that the US will fail if it tries, I was making the point that US is not guaranteed to succeed, i.e. I was disproving your original claim and all that it takes to disprove a certaintly of success is to point out 1 situation where the it was a failure.

The entirety of your argument now is about “it might succeed” because Yemen ain’t Afghanistan.

Well, yeah, sure, I agree that it might, but that’s not what you wrote originally: what you wrote originally is that “if it wants it can”, which is a whole different claim from “it can try and maybe it will succeed”.

Whilst Yemen not being Afghanistan means US is not guaranteed to fail to “delete the Houthi leadership” if it tries (and I never claimed it will), Yemen being similar to Afghanistan makes it more likely (IMHO) that the US will fail than if, for example Yemen was like Iraq instead.

All that however is mere decoration to my original disproving of your original post which was done since I pointed out how it once in the recent past wanted to and failed.

GBU_28 ,

I made 2 points:

  1. The US could make a targeted strike to decapitate houthi leadership and and command infra. I made this claim knowing a bit about Yemen, but specifically knowing that Yemen is very different from Afghanistan and that the leadership and critical military infrastructure is very different to afghan / Taliban setups.
  2. This action would result in a “quagmire” the likes of our past attempts to assert control over a middle eastern country via military power.

I am and have been clear that America shouldn’t do this, wouldn’t be successful in the long run, and wouldn’t create any of the change they would hope to achieve.

Edit but if they foolishly chose to, they absolutely could strike Yemen and massively destabilize / decapitate / destroy much of what makes the houtis a regional concern.

Aceticon ,

It doesn’t make sense that the Houthi “critical military infrastructure” is made of up of big fat targets that can just be bombed by a nation with air superiority for the simple reason that the Houthis have been bombed by Saudi Arabia (which has air superiority over Yemen), using US provided hardware and likely intel, for over a decade and they’re still there and still control most of the country.

This isn’t Iraq with AA and radar emplacements, big fat army barracks, large ammo depots or even government buildings that you can just take out to significantly degrade their combat effectivness and remove command and control structures.

Maybe there once were big fat critical infrastructures Houthi targets that the US could just take out there, but over a decade of war with an enemy with exactly the strategy of hitting them from the air has made sure it’s not the case anymore.

That the US and UK bombings to stop the Houthis from attacking ships seem to have failed miserably, is something that indicates that the Houthis are adapted to exactly the kind of attack favored by the US to takeout “critical military infrastructure” and leadership.

Another point is that judging not just by the Poshtun in Afghanistan but other similar tribal groups, taking out their leadership just results in new ones getting the job - tribal groups in the Middle East don’t just get totally lost and collapse as an effective military force if you take the top people out.

My reading of the actions of the US there now after the bombings failed to yield significant results is that they’re now playing the “better the devil you know than the devil you don’t” game and instead of trying to take out the leaders (who are known variables) which would just see them replaced by unknown variables, they’re trying negotiating with them instead.

Cryophilia ,

an omission that things aren’t going so well

Admission

maynarkh ,

Israel escalated by striking an embassy, breaking the Vienna convention, to Iran arming insurgents. That was Israel launching four missiles at Iranian sovereign territory, targeting high-ranking Iranian military officials, on ground that is considered to be sacrosanct internationally to preserve diplomacy in times of war.

The thing is, the drones are proportional retaliation, but still, it should be on both sides to try to de-escalate.

What I see though is that Israel wasn’t even condemned for the attack, in fact they tried to claim it wasn’t even an embassy they hit. Now the problem is that Iran, with its leadership and government being how it is, can’t let this go as they are humiliated. When Trump killed Soleimani, which was a similar strike (but not at an embassy!), Iran launched attacks at US bases, wounding US troops which the US let go without retaliation. That’s how it got de-escalated.

Your point with “let’s humiliate Iran by performing a show of force” is that they won’t take it and de-escalate. It will make it worse. I’m not saying we should let Iran walk all over us, but stepping in to cover one shitty side against another will just lead to either war or another 9/11.

KevonLooney ,

You didn’t mention the ship they took. If you think the missiles and drones (dozens) are proportional, then the ship makes no sense. Commandeering a civilian ship is clearly extra and disproportionate. They’re probably not going to give that up without getting something in return.

The leaders of Iran are desperate to seem tough to their domestic audience, like Putin. That’s why they did this. Unfortunately for the people of Iran, this is going to hurt them further with sanctions.

FJW ,
@FJW@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Iran attacked the specific military installations that Israel used to perform their highly illegal attack on the Iranian embassy. This is the most textbook example of textbook examples of appropriate, proportional and measured self-defense we have seen in a very long time in the entire region. The relevant thing to count is not the number of missiles or drones, but the number of targets and their relevance to the case.

SulaymanF , (edited )

Meanwhile Israel funds and arms terrorist groups in Iran like the Mojahiden-e-khalq or Al-Nusra in Syria, in addition to their cyber attacks on Iran and assassinations of Iranian scientists.

Billy ,

al-nusra in syria is funded by qatar, which syrians are suing for that.

the mek was allegedly supported also by israel, along with the saudis and the usa.
which had to start after their funding and cooperation with saddam hussein. so after 2003. much after iran’s support for hamas since the 1990’s and the founding of hizballah in the 1980’s.

and since then they’ve barely done anything other than the 2 assassinations related to iran’s nuclear program. not even close to hamas, houthis’ or hizballah’s actions. and they barely have any weapons or funding compared, let alone thousands of rockets and drones.

SulaymanF ,

Of course Saudi tries to blame their enemy Qatar. That was more of an accusation than any solid proof, at which point the CIA likely helped them to since they were toppling Assad.

Meanwhile according to Wikipedia:

There were cases of al-Nusra combatants receiving medical aid in Israel and returning to fight. Former head of Mossad, Efraim Halevy, in an interview for al-Jazeera implicitly confirmed that such practices had taken place

theotherverion ,

You cannot say it started with the embassy. Fucks like Hezbollah and Hamas were shooting rockets into israel for a looong time and israel has been doing the same.

maynarkh ,

It didn’t start with the embassy, it got worse with the embassy. Iran is not in the right here, but Israel is not interested in de-escalation either. Both are warmongers, and it’s the people who lose.

assassin_aragorn ,

We really just need to lock Netanyahu, the IDF, the Ayatollahs, Hamas, and Hezbollah in one room and let them figure it out for themselves.

andxz ,

It’d probably end with one really fat Netanyahu. He’s exactly the kind of backstabbing bitch who’d thrive in that environment.

homura1650 ,

And Israel has been attacking Hezbollah and Hamas.

Iran has been surprisingly restrained in not getting directly involved. However, directly attacking an Iranian embassy forces their hand in a way that retaliating against their proxies does not.

This is not some abstract notion about ethics. It is simply a basic strategic observation. The fact that Iran is attacking Israel directly, is a direct and predictably consequence of an strategic decision that Israel made.

matcha_addict ,

You cannot say it started with hezbollah and Hamas were shooting rockets into Israel. The occupation has been committing massscres since 1917.

Rapidcreek ,

Let’s not forget that it was the US that started this trend of killing Iranian generals.

NoIWontPickAName ,

Let’s not forget the same thing I have to say every fucking time in one of these posts: Just because the United States did something wrong does not mean others should follow

You guys need to learn from our fuck ups!

Rapidcreek ,

But maybe it wasn’t judged as a fuck up. Maybe it just gave license for others to replicate.

NoIWontPickAName ,

No I stand here and tell you as a natural born American that our military actions have an infinitesimally small good to bad ratio.

We have like the independence war and WWII and even that has atomic bombs involved.

WWI was just a giant clusterfuck and idk that there were good and bad guys in that one.

WWII at least had hitler going after the Jews, gays, and non-aryans, plus japan going after China and well honestly I don’t know why people remember the holocaust so much and forget all about the super fucked up shit Japan did.

Aqarius ,

Good/Bad isn’t the point. The point is if you do something that shouldn’t even be on the table and get away with it, it’s now on the table for everyone.

machinin ,

Has the US ever bombed an embassy? Knowing your post history, I have a feeling you left out that detail for a reason.

Rapidcreek ,

The Syrian Israeli strike was not on Iran’s embassy. It was on a building next door. An embassey is where you practice consultant affairs. Having a place to discuss military strategy doesn’t count.

machinin ,

As an apologist for the genocide, I know why you do it, I just want other people to see your strategy.

Rapidcreek , (edited )

Have you ever worked on your vocabulary? It needs freshoning

gnutrino ,

Has the US ever bombed an embassy?

Yup

machinin ,

Good, 25 years ago and not a part of this conflict. And it was a huge issue. The OP is trying to omit that part of the story.

In any case, hopefully Israel gets what it deserves for the genocide it’s committing.

Hyperreality ,

didn’t Israel start this by bombing their embassy in Syria?

Israel bombed their embassy in Syria as a response to Iran helping Hezbollah and Hamas. At one point an Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps spokesman said October 7th was a response to the death of Quds Force commander Qasem Soleimani, although they later retracted that. The Israelis wanted Soleimani gone because of his role in supporting Hamas and Hezbollah and earlier attacks on Israel, including his involvement in the 2006 war in Lebanon. Etc. etc. etc. on and on back to before Iran became Iran.

The middle-east is an illustration of the idiom "An Eye for an Eye Will Make the Whole World Blind".

matcha_addict ,

If we keep going back, Israel has committed far too many hostilities that were never responded to. Hell, they bomb syria most weeks without any retaliation form Syria. They commit horrors against west bank citizens all the time.

Hyperreality ,

Uhuh.

Anyway, breaking news is that Iran has also launched cruise missiles, so now Israel's going to retaliate with a significant strike against Iran. And in case you haven't been paying attention, Israel are less than great on proportionality.

Never a dull day.

matcha_addict ,

Israel doing more genocide. Disappointing but not surprising.

AA5B ,

Come on dude, don’t dilute the word for every atrocity. Nothing between Iran and Israel is remotely a genocide , and using that word here diminishes the suffering in Gaza and other places

matcha_addict ,

Call it whatever you want, I literally don’t care about emantics and I won’t argue them. It doesn’t discount the horror that Israel commits.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

If we keep going back, Israel has committed far too many hostilities that were never responded to.

en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_United_Nations_resolut…

Can you guess how many of these were vetoed by USA

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Yep. Most places the UN would come in and try to settle everyone down, but the US basically blocks anything like that, and it’s possible that’s mostly because of mystical prophecies they believe.

Maeve ,

Israel doesn't care about MAD

maynarkh ,

Theocratic dictatorships tend to be like that. Iran does not care about MAD either, I reckon.

TransplantedSconie ,

If it’s just drones, this is just a tit-for-tat for the attack in Syria and not WWIII.

If ballistic missiles follow? Well…

Ensign_Crab ,

It’s a good thing that Israel’s retaliation is never disproportionate.

DdCno1 ,

Obligatory, since people are not getting it:

https://youtu.be/SZE4pEKc6WY

There can not be a "cost of doing business" for the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. Has anyone here ever wondered why Hezbollah are so tame in this conflict, why they are so deathly afraid of an escalation? Hint: They are seeing the footage from Gaza too, they too are keeping track of how every single Hamas commander is being systematically hunted down, how Israel is willing and able to level an entire apartment block just to get one of them, global public opinion be damned - or, if they are feeling particularly humane that day, sending a small missile or drone precisely into the window that commander happens to be sitting behind.

How anyone expected anything but pure hellfire in response to the October 7 massacres and rapes is beyond me. No nation on Earth would have reacted any differently. The likes of Switzerland or Denmark would have gone medieval on the perpetrators in a situation like this. Iran is playing a very dangerous game. One "lucky" hit by one of their missiles or drones, e.g. into a busy crowd, school or hospital, could spell the end of the regime in Tehran.

NoIWontPickAName ,

I don’t think you understand how many orders of Magnitude hezbollah is above hummus

DdCno1 ,

Sure thing, but they don't want to experience the kind of air campaign (let alone ground assault) that is currently wiping the floor with Hamas. They are much larger and more capable than the Palestinian terror org, but the mere fact that they don't have an air force would make any meaningful escalation a very uneven fight. There's a reason Nasrallah hasn't seen any daylight in years.

NoIWontPickAName ,

Wiping the floor, I mean, they did kill a shit ton of Innocent and children. So they won that.

Other than that, they can’t even keep the stuff that they’ve already bombed to hell with no one in it.

livus ,

No nation on Earth would have reacted any differently.

I see this canard a lot, and it’s simply not true.

There are plenty of nations that don’t have track records of ignoring international law and committing egregious human rights abuses, including during armed conflict.

It is simply not reasonable to assume those countries would start a campaign of massive civilian slaughter.

sirboozebum ,

Last time I checked, the UK didn’t level parts of Belfast during the troubles and commit collective punishment of civilians there.

livus ,

Good example.

Land_Strider ,

Or similarly how Turkey handles its current operation in northern Syria that started with ISIS attacking Turkish villages across the border and continues against local groups funneling support to PKK there.

Billy ,

they also sent cruise missiles

TransplantedSconie ,

That is unconfirmed. So far it’s drones according to the article and US intelligence. Our intelligence guys have been doing a good job forecasting what is happening so I’m inclined to believe them. Guess we will see in a few hours.

Billy ,

Iran launches dozens of drones, cruise missiles at Israel

also statements from iran about missiles being fired.

TransplantedSconie ,

Like I said, we will find out in a couple hours. They will launch the ballistics and cruse missiles way later. Those don’t take hours to get there.

NoIWontPickAName ,

I am backing sconie.

The trick to this whole thing is to overwhelm iron dome with sheer numbers.

With how quick the other explosive delivery vehicles are, you have to launch them staggered so they all hit at the right time.

You use your little bitty drones and cruise missiles so that you can drive a hole over one area before they can re-arm the iron dome right there.

Your ballistic missiles fall through the gap and really do the damage

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Joe Biden was rushing back to the White House on Saturday afternoon from a weekend trip to Delaware as Iran fired dozens of drones against Israel.

The US president had been due to spend the weekend in Delaware at his residence in Rehoboth Beach but early on Saturday afternoon set off at short notice to return to the White House.

This followed Biden saying on Friday that he expects an Iranian attack on Israel “sooner rather than later” and issued a last-ditch message to Tehran, saying: “Don’t.”

Earlier on Saturday, Iran’s paramilitary Revolutionary Guard Corps in the strait of Hormuz, 50 nautical miles off the coast of the United Arab Emirates, seized an Israeli-affiliated container ship.

National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson said the US strongly condemned the seizure and urged Iran to release the ship and crew immediately.

“We will work with our partners to hold Iran to account for its actions,” she said, warning that “seizing a civilian vessel without provocation is a blatant violation of international law and an act of piracy.”.

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