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Biden calls for 'immediate ceasefire' in Gaza

The US will begin air dropping food aid to the people of Gaza, President Joe Biden announced on Friday, as the humanitarian crisis deepens and Israel continues to resist opening additional land crossings to allow more assistance into the war-torn strip.

Speaking in the Oval Office, Biden said the US would be “pulling out every stop” to get additional aid into Gaza, which has been under heavy bombardment by Israel since the October 7 Hamas terror attacks.

“Aid flowing to Gaza is nowhere nearly enough,” the US President said, noting “hundreds of trucks” should be entering the enclave.

Biden said the US is “going to insist that Israel facilitate more trucks and more routes to get more and more people the help they need, no excuses”.

He also noted the efforts to broker a deal to free the hostages and secure an “immediate ceasefire” that would allow additional aid in.

rambling_lunatic ,

I’m a bit out of the loop. Did he stop funding Israel or is the USA helping both sides?

absentbird OP , (edited )
@absentbird@lemm.ee avatar

Congress controls the purse, they have been providing foreign aid to Israel since long before he was elected. Biden directs the armed forces, and is using them to supply aid to Gaza.

That said, the US has been ‘helping both sides’ for ages. We provide more money to Israel than any other country, and also contribute more to UNRWA than any other nation. The goal of the US has been to reach a two state solution, so it makes sense to fund both states.

rambling_lunatic ,

Ah. Thank you.

ArmokGoB ,

Everyone’s in here giving Biden shit like not voting for him and letting Trump win will make things better for anyone.

Atomic ,

You know that you can vote for someone AND be critical of their future, past and/or present decisions right?

ArmokGoB ,

There’s a time and place to be critical of dumbass politicians taking half-measures on important issues, but doing it now is potentially undermining the election in favor of fascist criminals.

AgentDalePoopster ,

Seems like Biden should listen to his constituents if he wants to win re-election.

TengoDosVacas ,

When the options are that or try to capitulate to fascists to gain favor, this should be a super easy choice.

Oh, but wait…he’s a Catholic, and Democrats are Zionists.

We are super screwed

Bloodh0undJohnson , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    ArmokGoB ,

    I’m not happy about it, but it’s the reality of the situation. We’re sliding towards fascism as our rights are being eroded away. The government ignores our protests and no one will take up arms against the ruling class. This is how it is.

    OmnislashIsACloudApp ,

    honestly doesn’t it seem like this change of direction is him listening? Even weeks ago I would have never thought I would have heard the words ceasefire out of his mouth.

    to me this seems like a direct response of the message people sent to him with the Michigan primary and I am happy to see it.

    doesn’t mean I’m happy with what he’s done so far or even that he has not immediately taken direct action but this is a pivot and failing to acknowledge it weakens protest actions like this in the future.

    Maggoty ,

    If you read the article, he still wants the hostages released as a pre condition to any ceasefire. His position there hasn’t actually changed.

    OmnislashIsACloudApp ,

    maybe I am missing something that I don’t see why that is an objectionable position? like obviously the ceasefire needs to happen immediately but what is wrong with hostage release as part of it?

    not that long ago politicians were doing anything they could to avoid the word ceasefire and now they’re actively calling for it I’m really not thinking that this is an unchanged position but I am willing to listen if I have some drastic misunderstanding.

    Maggoty ,

    Because the hostages aren’t why we need the ceasefire. We need it to deliver aid. Also it’s an Israeli pre-condition. So what the white house is doing is putting the one big thing Israel wants and telling Hamas they’ll get a temporary peace out of it. Hamas has no reason to take that deal. Israel would similarly tell the white house to pound sand if they showed up in Tel Aviv to say Hamas has a deal that just requires the removal of all IDF troops from Palestinian territory.

    OmnislashIsACloudApp ,

    thank you for the explanation that is a lot more understandable now.

    hostages being released in order to stop the violence is what I was thinking.

    but you’re saying it’s more like losing leverage in order to temporarily pause the violence.

    they would have nothing left to bargain with and would just have to hope the world actually cares enough to step in.

    I can definitely see why they wouldn’t want to do that

    fellstone ,
    @fellstone@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I mean, wouldn’t it be a good thing if hostages were released? Also, surely getting a ceasefire like this is one of the reasons Hamas took hostages, right?

    Maggoty ,

    In a vacuum, yes. But we aren’t in a vacuum and Hamas needs something more than a shaky ceasefire to release all of the hostages. Israel isn’t agreeing to a ceasefire unless every hostage is released. At that point Hamas loses all leverage.

    It’s also an incredibly partisan move by a mediator who says their main concern is getting aid into the area. You need cooperation for that and you don’t get cooperation by backing the demands of just one side.

    zarkanian ,
    @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

    It sounds like he’s starting to. He’s gone from full-throated support to silent complicity to actually calling Israel out. I hope he can do more.

    RalphFurley ,

    Tell that to the terminally online edgelord jimmy Dore “left” crowd

    drislands ,

    You’re right, but there are a lot of people (that I’ve seen, at least) who are willing to abstain from voting over Biden’s handling of this.

    Atomic ,

    Then that is their democratic choice. And it’s Bidens loss for not listening to his voters.

    Don’t blame the voters for using their votes

    xenoclast ,

    We’re not. We’re blaming them for being fucking idiots who will vote in a literal dictator because they’re mad at Biden. Someone who will do far more damage to and destroy hundreds of millions of lives in the US and the rest of the world.

    30,000 deaths in another country is nothing compared to US deaths little orange is responsible for when you only consider his one choice to fuck over pandemic response at the beginning of the pandemic. Dude has the deaths of millions on his hands already.

    Anyone, any human being alive, that would vote for him is a fucking idiot that needs to give their head a bashing

    I love that you used the phrase democratic choice to describe it too. A+

    marxistsynths19 ,

    America’s path to fascism doesn’t begin and end with Trump. Forcing people to vote for someone they do not morally support is fascist. The last time he was president the world didn’t end. Millions of peoples lives in the United States are already horrible and the US regardless of who is president , democrat or republican, murder people all over the world. This narrow minded take of how the world works is part of the problem not the people abstaining from voting for Biden.

    CeruleanRuin ,

    Okay, sure, but voting on a single issue is what fucking morons do.

    xenoclast ,

    And children without a lot of life experiences to understand. Imagine coming of age in the last decade. This is their “normal”. Its awful and terrifying… exactly what all the people working to divide and and destroy democracy around the world have been working for.

    As much as I’m angry at their ignorance, it’s also really fucking sad.

    xenoclast ,

    No. It is not, this is a scary and extremist perspective and I’m sorry you feel like that. The media in America and the propagandist dismantling democracy have done so much damage.

    So many bots, so many promoters of disjunction. It’s overwhelming.

    You’re being asked to make a choice between eating a gross vegetable and a the barrel of a shotgun and you’re arguing for the shotgun.

    Atomic ,

    First you say “were not” and then in the next sentence you say “we do”. Good one.

    Best part about a democracy is that everyone gets to vote.

    Worst part is that everyone gets to vote.

    This is how it works. Just because you’re afraid of being on the losing side doesn’t mean anything has changed.

    And before you start yapping on. I’m not American. We don’t work on a 2 party system. I’m just saying what everyone else can see looking in.

    You can’t support democracy ONLY when your side gets what they want.

    ArmokGoB ,

    It’s the unalienable right of every US citizen to say whatever dumbass shit they want. I’m still gonna call them a dumbass for saying dumbass shit though.

    fellstone ,
    @fellstone@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    People who are able to vote and specifically choose not to should absolutely be blamed. Voting third party is perfectly reasonable, but you have no right to complain about the state of politics and deserve to be ridiculed if you make the conscious decision not to vote even though you are fully able to.

    machinin ,

    It’s the trolley problem. It is much more difficult for people to be an active part of genocide by voting for Biden than simply not voting and allowing a worse outcome to happen if Trump becomes president…

    nurple ,
    @nurple@lemmy.world avatar

    Seems like they missed the lesson of the trolley problem, then.

    Jentu ,

    Perhaps we should work to make sure no one is on the tracks instead of pulling the lever?

    nurple ,
    @nurple@lemmy.world avatar

    We should do whatever we can to keep people off of the tracks in the future. But that’s not mutually exclusive with pulling the lever right now, since the trolley is already heading towards people.

    Jentu ,

    It’s an easy decision to make if you aren’t the one tied to the tracks. Palestinian Americans are losing their families and flipping that lever will neither bring them back nor make the situation better. Not only that, but flipping the lever without any real change of action from the DNC just means they can just trust their base to overlook genocide again and again in perpetuity as long as republicans remain the worse choice (which will be always).

    flying_sheep ,
    @flying_sheep@lemmy.ml avatar

    Maybe read up on what the trolley problem (together with its variations) is about then.

    zarkanian ,
    @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I’m not abstaining. I’m voting for Jill Stein.

    Jill’s currently polling at 5%. If the Green Party could get 5%, we’d qualify for millions of dollars in federal grant money, which would go a long way towards helping us fight the corrupt two-party system.

    ThePrestige ,

    yes i do

    cogman ,

    Exactly, I demand better of him and I will probably vote for him. I really wonder though how someone that’s a Muslim or Palestinian can stomach voting for him. His policies around Israel are pretty much identical to what Trump would do which is a big deal for a lot of people. He’s basically saying “Forget that I let Israel murder and starve to death your loved ones, I’ve been pretty good when it comes to monopolies right?!?”.

    I’ll vote for him because he’s the better of two options, however, he has blood on his hands and that may just lose him a second term.

    Hotmailer ,

    F… Him, he needs to be in a care home yesterday.

    zalgotext ,

    You’re allowed to swear on the Internet

    derf82 ,

    And they are never satisfied.

    “Biden must demand an immediate ceasefire!”

    Biden: I demand an immediate ceasefire!

    “Biden isn’t doing enough!”

    cogman , (edited )

    Ok, read what actually was said then come back.

    The headline is misleading. Biden simply said “I hope a ceasefire happens one day”. Which is a FAR cry from “demanding a ceasefire now”. He isn’t doing enough because he hasn’t been saying things like “We are planning on withdrawing aid from Israel if they keep up this offensive”. Instead it’s “Well golly gee I hope Hamas returns all the hostages for a 2 week ceasefire and no troop withdrawals by Israel.”

    But hey, at least he’s decided that he can say the word “ceasefire” Up until maybe a couple of weeks ago that was a forbidden word by the administration.

    zarkanian ,
    @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

    When Biden ran in 2020, this was the argument I heard from Biden supporters: sure, Biden may not be perfect, but we should support him anyway, and then, once he gets elected, we’ll hold his feet to the fire.

    Yet now, when people try to hold his feet to the fire, they’re accused of supporting Trump. Funny how that works.

    ArmokGoB ,

    My argument is: Biden may not be perfect, but he’s a whole hell of a lot better than the guy that tried to start an insurrection and appointed a Supreme Court justice that got rid of Roe v. Wade. Holding his feet to the fire is a waste of time because the house always wins; the People will be the ones to bear the burden of any sort of loss for the Democrats. All I can do is hope that people will finally be pushed too far and revolt against the government, but that will be a whole hell of a lot harder if the 1st and 2nd Amendments are infringed on any more than they already are.

    bufalo1973 ,
    @bufalo1973@lemmy.ml avatar

    So essentially, shock doctrine. “This is bad, but it could be worse”.

    ArmokGoB ,

    More like “This is bad, but the only other remotely probable outcome is worse.”

    zarkanian ,
    @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Revolting against the government is far less feasible (and far more ethical) than simply voting for an alternative party.

    ArmokGoB ,

    1996 had the lowest recorded percentage of voter turnout in the past century, at 51.7%. Assuming there’s currently about 250 million eligible voters in the US, that is equivalent to about 129 million voters.

    Imagine you were a wizard and could force everyone on Lemmy to vote for a single third-party candidate. Also assume every account on every instance of Lemmy is a US citizen capable of voting. Lemmy has about 421 thousand users. Even if each account on Lemmy could magically convince 50 other eligible voters to vote for the same independent candidate, that would only amount to about 21 million votes, or about 16.3% of all votes in the election going towards that candidate.

    Voting in an independent party is nothing short of impossible in the US.

    zarkanian ,
    @zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

    What does Lemmy have to do with it? I never brought up Lemmy!

    ArmokGoB ,

    My point is that the numbers are so unbelievably stacked against a third party winning that you’re not achieving anything by voting for a third part.

    Diva ,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    He’s doing the thing where he calls a temporary pause a “ceasefire” with the only leverage getting handed over.,. So the genocidal ethnostate can continue the slaughter at its leasure.

    Sounds like a shit deal.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    The only leverage Hamas has is to keep being terrorists? No. Hamas can either surrender and give up or keep being bombed until they are gone. It is the only thing still killing people in Gaza at this point.

    sinedpick ,

    It must be so exhausting to carry water for a settler-colonial ethnostate whose very foundations are genocidal violence.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Not really. Israel didn’t build the terror tunnels under everyone’s houses and then tell everyone not to evacuate. Maybe your thinking of Hamas, and it’s regressive and religio-authoritarian genocidal violence?

    ___ ,

    And maybe you’ve run the numbers to realize that those “terrors tunnels” would cost too much to be real. It’s a good excuse to ethnically cleanse a region you have no right to.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Ridiculous take. Even Hamas doesn’t deny they are real. Like gtfo with that conspiratorial nonsense that you pulled out of your ass.

    ___ ,

    Maybe you should watch the news before speaking. Maybe even a Google search. Then go away. Thanks.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Lol. Okay little kid.

    ___ ,

    Was that response even worth writing out?

    sinedpick ,

    You have zero understanding of cause and effect or you are looking at this conflict through a pinhole. Stop supporting and lapping up the propaganda of genocidal settler-colonialists like an useful idiot. Learn history and have some morals.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    “Genocidal settler-colonialists” sounds like you’ve been lapping enough propoganda for the both of us.

    I’m aware of the long history of two way violence. I’m aware that even if Israel stopped the violence now and forever, Hamas is still an ideology that exists as antithetical to democracy and peace. They’ll still be stoning people to death. They’ll still have zero elections. And whatever, that’s wildly popular in Gaza. But when they leave Gaza and start doing international terrorism, accepting money and weapons from Iran and North Korea, that’s not being very neighborly and I’m sorry but Hamas needs to go. They have no right to be terrorists. They can practice nok violent resistance if their lives are important to them. If not…

    Krauerking ,

    I will tell the repressed how to protest my oppression and they will be grateful for the chance for me to ignore them.

    Man, yeah that always works out.

    Keeponstalin , (edited )

    You’re not aware of the history because you choose not to

    JustZ , (edited )
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Sorry I spoke too soon on your post. Should have kept reading. Applaud the effort toward fairness.

    Here’s a couple more for you;

    Apartheid:

    papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=43439…

    www.jstor.org/stable/41575857

    Hamas Lawfare:

    …duke.edu/…/five-ideas-to-counter-hamas-lawfare-s…

    thehill.com/…/213546-asymmetries-and-proportional…

    …westpoint.edu/attacking-hamas-part-i-context/

    lieber.westpoint.edu/idf-hamas-duty-to-warn/

    justsecurity.org/…/expert-guidance-law-of-armed-c…

    core.ac.uk/download/pdf/214077887.pdf

    snek , (edited )
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    The first paper you linked to basically makes the argument and it’s not an apartheid system because Gazans are not citizens of Israel… never stopping for a moment to wonder how they ended up refugees in Gaza instead of citizens of Palestine…

    Do you not understand that Israel stole land from Palestinians using law, using force, and using ethnic cleansing? Do you not understand that Gazans SHOULD be citizens and have full rights and tjat denying them this while also building a gisnt siege wall around a little strip is the apartheid part, right?

    That paper sounds like it was written by a stinky slithering lying lawyer who thinks this “loophole” cancels human rights for Palestinians. It ignores how the West Bank is made to shrink under zones.

    And also, Palestinian citizens of Israel do have it shit.

    Btw turns out the two people who wrote the paper also wrote this one: papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=40876…

    This is the kind of intellectual smut that you read… lawyers who want to make it legal to steal land from the native population.

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    The second link you posted is a study by a Zionist think tank lobbyist called Robbie Sabel

    Prof. Robbie Sabel is the former legal advisor to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Director General for Arms Control of the Ministry, and former Israeli counselor in Washington

    Yes… totally unbiased and free of emotion!

    Is any article you read not written by some propaganda arm of the Israeli government?

    Keeponstalin , (edited )

    Both those ‘papers’ on apartheid don’t consider any of the overwhelming evidence brought forth by the Reports by three Major Human Rights Organizations, and completely ignore the International Law of the Crimes of Apartheid laid out by International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD), the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (Apartheid Convention) and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (Rome Statute).

    This “Lawfare” argument requires being unaware of the history of Zionism as Settler Colonialism, The History of Israeli Occupation, and the abhorrent material conditions Palestinians as subject to on a daily basis due to the Apartheid. It hinges on the premise of human shields. In bad faith of course, as it ignores all IDF use of Human shields and assumes all Hamas as a given despite any verified evidence. It’s a way for US State Department Propaganda to justify its military and international support of Israel’s ethnic cleansing campaign and genocide.

    When it comes to human shields, the only independent verification back in 2014 (Amnesty link) is of Weapons (not rockets) hidden at a vacant school, situated btwn 2 UNRWA schools housing displaced people, by a Palestinian armed group.

    The Guardian journalists had encountered a couple individuals in 2014 too.

    HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009

    Amnesty on Hamas War Crimes 2023

    Yet none of those come remotely close to making hospitals and schools bombing targets. Even if all the IDF claims were true, that does not exempt those hospitals and schools as protected under international law.

    While we’re on the subject, let’s look at how the IDF uses Human Shieldsincluding Children (2013 Report)

    This kind of apologia for Israel, where you blame the violence imposed on the Palestinians by their occupiers to be the fault of the Palestinians, shows you don’t genuinely care about resolving the conflict or bringing an end to the violence. Whether you know it or not; you’re justifing the brutal occupation, the apartheid, the martial law, the military courts, the theft and extortion of water, the exploitation of Palestinians as a workforce without rights, the settler violence, the deprivation of human rights for Palestinians, the destruction of schools, the destruction of hospitals, the destruction of homes, the starvation of children, the execution of women and children, the inhuman torture and abuse of Palestinians and yes even children in Israeli prisons. You don’t see Palestinians as human when you justify all this, that’s the point of this dehumanizing rhetoric, to justify the human rights abuses and destruction of Palestinians. If you do see palestinians as human, the same as Israelis or anyone else. It’s completely clear that this shit is completely unacceptable, yet it’s been the reality for decades and decades.

    JustZ , (edited )
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Okay I’m obviously not going to read all this and click all these links, but what the hell do you mean by this:

    The only independent verification of Hamas using human Shields was in 2014.

    Look at your television right now and you can see with your own eyes Hamas using entire cities as human shields.

    Plenty of recent evidence of tunnels under cities and of Hamas directing people to ignore evacuating warnings.

    How can you explain your double standard on this if it’s not anti-semitism?

    I’ll start giving a shit what happens to Hamas when they reinstate elections, release all the hostages, and stop taking money from Iran and North Korea to kill Jews. Or maybe if they start following any international law: they can start by wearing uniforms and not purposefully targeting civilians, at a minimum. Until then, they are enemy combatants and not entitled to equal rights under the law.

    And that’s another reason why it’s not apartheid, as cited by the authors of my first two links. If you want to say Israel is Apartheid, your argument is limited to its statutory laws that apply to Israeli citizens, not to non citizens; every country discriminates against non citizens and it’s not a war crime. But suddenly with Israel it’s a war crime? How do you explain your double standard on this if it’s not anti-semitism?

    Keeponstalin , (edited )

    Sounds like denial, this is a war on children by Israel.

    If you want to know the answers to those questions, read the first few pages of the Amnesty International Report. It’s answered there in detail.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Children always make up a huge chunk of civilian casualties in war. Why is it any surprise it’s absurdly high when Hamas is using entire cities as human shields?

    Keeponstalin , (edited )

    A lack of food, water, shelter and sanitation continues to put children’s lives at risk as they suffer under relentless airstrikes with no safe place to go, said UNICEF spokesperson James Elder, who recently returned from the enclave.

    The UNICEF spokesperson explained that the “safe zones” were “anything but safe” because they had been designated unilaterally by Israel alone and lacked “sufficient resources for survival”: food, water, medicine, protection.

    Mr. Elder added that more than 130,000 of children under two are not receiving “critical life-saving breastfeeding and age-appropriate complementary feeding” such as micronutrient supplementation.

    ‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza

    Compared to previous Israeli assaults on Gaza, the current war — which Israel has named “Operation Iron Swords,” and which began in the wake of the Hamas-led assault on southern Israel on October 7 — has seen the army significantly expand its bombing of targets that are not distinctly military in nature. These include private residences as well as public buildings, infrastructure, and high-rise blocks, which sources say the army defines as “power targets” (“matarot otzem”).

    The massive attacks on power targets and private residences came at the same time as the Israeli army, on Oct. 13, called on the 1.1 million residents of the northern Gaza Strip — most of them residing in Gaza City — to leave their homes and move to the south of the Strip. By that date, a record number of power targets had already been bombed, and more than 1,000 Palestinians had already been killed, including hundreds of children.

    Although it is unprecedented for the Israeli army to attack more than 1,000 power targets in five days, the idea of causing mass devastation to civilian areas for strategic purposes was formulated in previous military operations in Gaza, honed by the so-called “Dahiya Doctrine” from the Second Lebanon War of 2006.

    Not only has the current war seen Israel attack an unprecedented number of power targets, it has also seen the army abandon prior policies that aimed at avoiding harm to civilians. Whereas previously the army’s official procedure was that it was possible to attack power targets only after all civilians had been evacuated from them, testimonies from Palestinian residents in Gaza indicate that, since October 7, Israel has attacked high-rises with their residents still inside, or without having taken significant steps to evacuate them, leading to many civilian deaths.

    Such attacks very often result in the killing of entire families, as experienced in previous offensives; according to an investigation by AP conducted after the 2014 war, about 89 percent of those killed in the aerial bombings of family homes were unarmed residents, and most of them were children and women.

    JustZ , (edited )
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah the people in Gaza lie constantly about what happens. None of them are ever members of Hamas. Nobody ever saw anyone using tunnels. Nobody knows who is launching the rockets.

    Yeah the unarmed families and the houses, it’s horrible. Unfortunately, digging tunnels under your house and using them to launch terror attacks for decades on end is as good as packing your family into the car and driving them right into a war zone. Who would do that? Hamas members and loyalists. They call it martyrdom. They literally stand on the roof of buildings after being warning of an incoming airstrike, trying to get a pension.

    Keeponstalin , (edited )

    Palestinians have been terrorized for generations by Israel under occupation and apartheid. Armed resistance groups don’t pop into existence for no reason. You don’t understand the history or meaning of a Martyr in Palestine. Literally anyone who dies at the hands of the Israeli Occupying Force is considered a Martyr. You are being delusional and racist if you think Palestinian people including women and children want to die. They have hopes and dreams like anyone else, you’re doing dehumanizing rhetoric. Palestinians are being exterminated in Gaza every day, and people like you are defending it without a second guess.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6a5ec106-446c-4281-8f87-d266b0b15a4b.png

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0dbc7c3d-5a9e-4b42-b56a-a773e87a4882.jpeg

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Their hopes and dreams of putting terrorists in charge, ending all elections, killing all Jews, and stoning all infidels to death. Real cool stuff you’re defending!

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    They’re talking about Palestinians :/

    Yeah, I think you are actually racist

    Keeponstalin ,

    You justify apartheid and genocide because you make things up about Palestinians? Wow you are just incredibly racist.

    Humanitarian groups, including UNICEF, are calling for an immediate end to the unrelenting violence in Gaza and the unconditional release of all hostages. Hear what the children of Gaza, caught in a catastrophic situation, have to say.

    “I hope for a ceasefire and I dream of a future where I can return to school much sooner,” said Maryam.

    “My dream is to become a nurse, and I hope the war will end soon," said 8-year-old Salwa.

    Eight-year-old Mohammed lost all his toys when his home was destroyed in an airstrike. “I wish for a ceasefire,” he said.

    “I lost my house and my two brothers,” said Wafaa. “I want to return to our house, even though the chances are that we will never get back, and we will never be whole again, as everyone is losing their loved ones.”

    “I want this war to reach an end,” said 14-year-old Ahmad. “I hate waiting in lines all day — water, bread, drinking water. My dream was to become a doctor but now I’m dreaming of staying alive.”

    “I never imagined that I would be sitting at my school desk as a displaced boy," said 10-year-old Ahmad. "I used to love my school and my classes … I don’t know if I would still love my school again after all of this.”

    Outside a Gaza City bakery, 10-year-old Kenan said, “I’ve been waiting in this endless line since 6 a.m. just to bring some bread home for the day. Sometimes, I don’t get back to my family until five or six hours later. I miss my school the most — my only dream now is to put an end to this war and for the world to send us bread.”

    “The only thing I want to share is love to the entire world,” said 11-year-old Amal. "I want them to know and to understand that we are kids like any other kid on this earth.”

    That was months ago. How many of these children do you think have died while you’ve been dehumanizing them and defending Israel?

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Keeponstalin ,

    Yeah. It’s honestly sad. It can be difficult to break through the propaganda if you don’t have a starting point, but to willfully ignore all these sources in favor of dehumanization…

    I’m glad more people are failing to fall for it, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine can’t be ignored any longer

    JustZ , (edited )
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t you see how killing 30,000 is not acceptable just because more died in a bigger genocide? Don’t you see how hypocritical it is to believe in “Never again” but fall short of applying it?

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, rule 5:

    “Rule 5: Keep it civil. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!”

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    You have now lost your mind /:

    Telodzrum ,

    So you’re supportive of kidnapping and using civilians as human shields? Cool.

    Diva ,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    It’s a national liberation struggle against a settler ethnostate with mandatory military service. Obviously the settlers stealing their land are valid targets.

    Telodzrum ,

    Unhinged shit.

    Diva ,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yeah fucked up that Biden is enabling those genocidal settlers

    Krauerking ,

    Well they are only using human shields because Israel insists it’s still fine to fire up on them if maybe they take out a Hamas member with them.

    Like, we shouldn’t actually be still killing the civilians right? That would be gross and fucked up right?

    nurple ,
    @nurple@lemmy.world avatar

    Netanyahu won’t agree to a permanent ceasefire. The hope seems to be to get any sort of long pause then push to extend and extend it so it is de facto permanent (and hope Netanyahu gets kicked out of power somewhere in there).

    ricdeh ,
    @ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

    Too little, too late. Military intervention or nothing, Israel and Gaza need to be taken in by UN peacekeeping forces and a new dialogue needs to be started about how to find a permanent solution for the coexistence of Palestinians and Israelis. If the need exists, maybe even deconstruct the current Israel to make way for a more tolerant and democratic nation that respects people of all origin.

    MeanEYE ,
    @MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

    Doubt UN troops would help here. They’d either get swayed like UNRWA was or would get the same treatment as Israelis.

    filister ,

    What is more plausible according to you:

    • Hamas managed to sway UNRWA and pretty much all of the known humanitarian organisations operating in Gaza?
    • Or that the situation on the ground is really dire and it was like this long before the 7th of October no matter what Israel is claiming.

    And please feel free to send me any article of any non affiliated NGO or humanitarian organisation with Israel praising their efforts to achieve long lasting peace before the 7th of October.

    Because I can easily do the opposite.

    Maggoty ,

    Our own intelligence agencies rated that as “low confidence”. Which is the Intel version of pressing F to doubt. It means they found nothing to support the allegations. Typically it’s followed by the briefer saying something like, “we do not recommend action on this item at this time.”

    chiliedogg ,

    They absolutely need a 2-state solution.

    And neither of the 2 states should be the current states of Israel or Palestine.

    Maggoty ,

    A 2 state solution is effectively impossible at this point. Israel won’t let their settlements go and the Palestinians will not accept anything less than the 1967 borders. There’s also the split country problem. Bangladesh used to be East Pakistan. Split countries have a bad habit of one part getting exploited pretty hard.

    chiliedogg ,

    So what you’re saying is the problem with the 2-state solution is the 2 existing states that I specifically said shouldn’t be part of the solution?

    Maggoty ,

    You can’t just do a rebrand. These are thousand year old ethic identities. There has to be a structural change as well.

    dangblingus ,

    It’s about re-election optics, not about helping Gazans.

    abracaDavid ,

    Ding ding ding!

    They started seeing everyone posting on social media that they’re not voting to support us paying for a genocide.

    dumpsterlid ,

    Vote “uncommitted” in the primaries, all the centrists shaming progressives for having a red line at “genocide” are so desperately wrong about now being not the time to raise our voices, fuck them.

    The only way to get Biden to care about the horrific mass slaughter of an entire population is to directly make him afraid he won’t get his power trip again if he doesn’t capitulate because it is blindly obvious nothing else will sway him until it’s farrrrrrrrr too late.

    After the election is the worst time to do it, if Biden wins he will just completely ignore progressive/almost unanimous international outcry over Israel’s genocide and continue handwringing because why would he do otherwise given his ideology and the fact that he doesn’t need the votes anymore?

    iAvicenna ,
    @iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar

    calling for a ceasefire when it matters the most: before the elections. good job Biden.

    Shialac ,

    when he realizes he is probably going to lose the election because a lot of his former voters don’t support genocide as much as he does

    ashok36 ,

    When those same former voters watch Israel murder every Palestinian while Trump actively cheers them on and rounds up all Palestinian Americans to deport them for further ethnic cleansing.

    pjwestin ,
    @pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean, it’s pretty hard to make an argument that Trump would be materially worse for Palestinians than Biden if both are going to defund UNRWA and give Israel military aid. What Biden is doing now is definitely a step in the right direction; I hope he keeps this up, even when the Republicans inevitably say he’s being, “soft on terrorism,” (or whatever the talking point becomes).

    Seasm0ke ,

    2024 where the harm reduction vote goes to whoever supports genocide less fervently. Thanks DNC!

    ashok36 ,

    It isn’t the dnc’s fault a third of the country is apparently fascist these days. Nothing moves left until the ultra right is thoroughly defeated and sent back to the shadows.

    Glytch ,

    Yes it is. The Democrats have had plenty of opportunities to step away from their pro-corporate stance and start doing things to help people. Every single time they cave to Republican pressure in the name of “bipartisanship”. Look at the border policy they just proposed that was everything that Republicans wanted. Democrats will give the whole game away just to keep that sweet sweet donor money coming in.

    “Republicans are worse” is a shitty argument when Democrats already give them everything they want.

    In fact the Democrats LOVE the far right because they can just point to them and go “well you don’t want THOSE guys in charge do you?”, while doing absolutely nothing to help the populace who are suffering under greedflation.

    Maggoty ,

    Bullshit. They can absolutely move left and pick up all the voters they left behind over the decades.

    ashok36 ,

    There are nowhere near enough left behind voters to make up for one’s they’d lose. We have to marginalized the ultra right first.

    Maggoty ,

    So we have to keep moving right to marginalize the right? We keep running party propaganda further to the right, and expect that makes less people vote to the right?

    That’s the most insane shit I’ve heard all day.

    Maggoty ,

    Right and at this rate the Democrat will be doing that in 2028 while telling us it’s okay, we can still vote and the other guy is worse!

    Harm reduction only works so long as there is remediation between elections. Just ratcheting shit further to the right and telling everyone they have to vote for you because you’re still not as far right as the other guy isn’t a scenario I want to participate in. If they want my vote the least they can do is not be worse than GW Bush.

    ashok36 ,

    If you think Biden is no better than GWB then I don’t even know what to say. You’re living on a different planet.

    Guy_Fieris_Hair ,

    Sucks because Trump is going to stay behind Isreal too. The people that refuse to vote for Biden because of this likely just won’t vote. Which = Trump.

    seathru ,
    @seathru@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    And again we’ll blame it on the voters that failed to “fall in line” instead of the establishment that gave them no reason to.

    abracaDavid ,

    Gives a whole new meaning to “vote or die”.

    blazeknave ,

    You got what you asked for you

    *Ftfy

    filister ,

    Didn’t the US just recently block another UN resolution calling for a ceasefire?

    TacoButtPlug ,
    @TacoButtPlug@sh.itjust.works avatar

    This made me laugh through my nasal passages because I read it in the sarcastic tone I would’ve delivered it in.

    abracaDavid ,

    Just had to wait for there to be 30,000 Palestinian deaths first.

    9/11 had 2,996 deaths for a little bit of context. Just imagine what would be happening right now if there were 30,000 dead Americans.

    Balinares ,

    Empirically: a pandemic. :(

    index ,

    They waited and will wait until the goal is achieved which is destroying gaza and drive as many palestinians away so that israel can extend its state.

    theletterd ,

    Theyve returned the hostages right? Did we forget about the hostages?

    uSpetzWon ,

    Well, this is what is happening right now because there were 1319 dead Israelis.

    memri.org/…/palestinians-gaza-west-bank-celebrate…

    radicalautonomy ,

    Be right back, getting popcorn.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Uno Reverse: the actual genocidal and apartheid party operating in Israel was always Hamas! ✅

    snek ,
    @snek@lemmy.world avatar

    But what Israel did to Gazans is just as bad as a thousand October 7th.

    Diva ,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    America has 9/11s of covid deaths monthly, long after Biden “ended covid” with Trump’s strategy of “just stop reporting the numbers”. That’s what our journalists also do with all of the people murdered by Israel. Keep them out of sight, out of mind.

    Urist ,
    @Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

    To be fair, it is medically hard to determine whether elderly people die with covid or from it.

    Diva ,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’m sure that it is, but it’s not just elderly dying, plenty of kids and their parents are suffering. I just read a NPR puff piece about a landlord who finally got their investment property ‘back’ by evicting their tenant… a recently widowed healthcare worker with a child. It’s almost like we shouldn’t be trying to just return to ‘normal’ with an uncontrolled pandemic raging.

    nomous ,

    As many people die from covid as do from influenza or RSV at this point. I’m not saying it’s not a serious illness but I am saying it’s very far from “an uncontrolled pandemic” and saying it is is hyperbolic to the point of disregarding any other point you made.

    Diva ,
    @Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

    We’ve given up on all testing, masking, vaccination and even quarantining at this point. 9/11s of people are dying monthly from all manner of respiratory diseases (after getting wrecked by covid). What exactly would uncontrolled look like to you then?

    barsoap ,

    Uncontrolled would be the very start of the pandemic, with neither masking nor immune people. It’s not a wildfire any more, not even in the US with their proclivity to shoot themselves in the foot. It’s better controlled than influenza simply because more people got shots against it.

    nomous , (edited )

    That’s all I’m saying. Yes it’s a dangerous illness, but ERs aren’t overwhelmed by patients like they were late 2020. I think part of the issue is semantics and a lot of people not realizing just how dangerous full-on influenza is, it’s absolutely a deadly virus and 10s of thousands of people die from it every year right here in the first world; much less in the 3rd world.

    edit: get mad about it but I guess you don’t remember lockdowns and toilet paper shortages. I never got to work from home (medical-related field yay), I know exactly what uncontrolled looks like. If you want to panic about something start reading into microplastics, way more long term damage we’re only beginning to understand. Plastics are everywhere.

    barsoap ,

    I think part of the issue is semantics: People think that “controlled” is as much as an absolute as “uncontrolled”. Control over such things will never be absolute as medicine isn’t omnipotent.

    And then they’re mardy, thinking “if not for those anti-maskers we would have that absolute control” – nah. They can’t take from the rest of us power that we never had. And even over here in my state with like 85% immunisation and noone griping at masks (wat mutt dat mutt) there’s still cases. That failing (because people don’t become noticeably symptomatic), there’s measurable viral load in wastewater: The bug is still around, just not really an issue any more. We’ve basically forgotten about it at this point, people over 80 or otherwise susceptible get refresher shots, but they’re getting shots against a fuckton of things so it’s not special, any more.

    The pandemic got brought into control even with covidiots around. And if it hadn’t been for medicine saving a gazillion lives, our collective immune system would’ve done it in a decade or two.

    ltxrtquq ,

    As many people die from covid as do from influenza or RSV at this point.

    I understand you don’t feel affected by covid anymore, but you’re incredibly wrong.

    CDC estimates for influenza deaths in the 2022-2023 flu season: 21,000

    CDC cumulative covid deaths from Sep 9, 2023 minus Oct 1, 2022: 84,560

    Honestly, I’m not seeing a death count for RSV, but based on this RSV Burden Estimates, it’s at most: 10,300 per year.

    And this is all shown pretty well in the Trends in Viral Respiratory Deaths in the United States graph.

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/77a880db-13fc-4dc7-b78b-19daccd7f771.png

    Urist ,
    @Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Not denying covid is more deadly than influenza or RSV, but you still have to account for the fact that covid might kill an old person that would otherwise die to influenza in a month or two (or something else, they are old and their bodies are degrading inevitably). That is why sustained increased death rates in corrolation to covid numbers is a better qualifier for the argument that we have to take precautions to limit people dying. I have been of the understanding that after the major initial waves, death rates are not higher than usual and hence unsustained.

    ltxrtquq ,

    Even if I ignore you moving the goalposts, would you really look at a graph like this https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/stories/2022/03/united-states-deaths-spiked-as-covid-19-continued-figure-2.jpg

    that’s a few years out of date and assume the total deaths settled back down into the old pattern?

    I’m not finding a more up-to-date data source for deaths per month, but it’s not like you’re providing any kind of data that covid isn’t still killing a lot of extra people per year.

    Urist , (edited )
    @Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

    I am not from the US, but here are the statistics from Norway where no covid measurements have been in place since the start of 2022. The table below is official statistics on mortality nationwide:

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/fa59590d-4b87-411c-9451-10b325aefd09.jpeg

    Also, I got this first from discussions with some newly graduated medicine students. It is not like I was pulling it from my ass in the first place.

    If there is any discrepancy in mortality rates, it could very well be caused by different ratios of vaccinated populace:

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/44981c5f-44ba-4f2f-b97e-1046fe11c9ba.png

    ltxrtquq ,

    It looks like you’re getting the data from here (except the Norwegian language version), so I have to ask: is there a reason you’re cutting off the part of the graph showing “Deaths per 1000 mean population” spiking in 2022? https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/dfc39c8b-8a96-46d0-8fb0-5ebe33b939df.png

    This new table is from here, and you can click “Choose variables” at the top if you want to see different data. But even just the graph you provided shows that total deaths for both sexes jumped up dramatically in 2022, the year you say covid restrictions were lifted. What are you trying to prove here exactly?

    Urist ,
    @Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

    The population is slowly increasing but for the purposes of calculating the mean mortality can be treated as a constant, which is why I did not care about the weird cut off caused by me using my mobile phone and the table not adjusting for it. The increase of 2022 and 2021 was expected due to general decline of normal viruses (caused by covid measurements), which in turn made the general populace more susceptible to being sick later through decline in antibodies (due to smaller contagion, not some collective breakthrough in immune systems) through large parts of the pandemic. Either way, the point that I am making is that vaccines and effective health care to those sick with covid provides a highly effective measurement against it. This so much to the point that there is not, by Norwegian consitutional law, enough reason to keep the temporary measurements going any longer.

    It was right to stop social contact. It was right to vaccinate everyone that could and wanted to (should have made it mandatory for all that could in my opinion). Then, afterwards, it was right to open schools and other parts of society gradually.

    What are you trying to prove here exactly?

    That it was right to open up after a critical percentage of the populace had been vaccinated with what has proven to be highly effective vaccines (better than we could have hoped, to be honest). Also I want to discredit the point that there is a raging pandemic. Even if it was raging in the US, which is not strictly true either, it would be more correct to call it an epidemic at this point caused by ineffective vaccination rates and shitty access to public health care for way too many people.

    ltxrtquq ,

    So if I’m understanding you correctly, you went from

    you still have to account for the fact that covid might kill an old person that would otherwise die to influenza in a month or two

    thinking covid wasn’t causing any/many additional deaths per year, just speeding them up a little

    to providing a graph that shows thousands of extra people are dying each year

    The increase of 2022 and 2021 was expected due to general decline of normal viruses (caused by covid measurements)

    to saying all those extra deaths were because people weren’t getting sick from normal diseases, despite us not seeing much of a drop in 2020 from people not getting those diseases during the covid restrictions. But now that the restrictions are lifted and they’re being exposed to those normal diseases (and covid) again, all/most of theses extra deaths are from the normal diseases and have nothing to do with covid.

    Norway absolutely did a better job at handling covid than the US, but the US’s death rate seems to just be permanently higher now as a direct result of covid. Maybe removing all restrictions was the right thing to do, but we shouldn’t ignore the fact that it comes at the cost of several thousand more people dying each year, just in Norway.

    Urist ,
    @Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

    It was, as I said, not a sustained increase:

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/b57a4201-174b-4df5-b77b-46fba02e22ff.jpeg

    From that we can conclude that after an initial burst in death numbers, as covid and other viruses passes through the populace (which is bound to happen without indefinite restrictions), death rates return to normal. Also, with respect to uncontrolled spread in unnvaccinated populace, the increase was very minor. Actually comparable to a few high normal years earlier. Hence we can conclude reopening of society and the vaccines enabling it to be a major success, all things concidered, yeah.

    You are very much wrong in saying stuff like each year and so on. There is no data to back your claim.

    ltxrtquq ,

    From that we can conclude that after an initial burst in death numbers, as covid and other viruses passes through the populace, death rates return to normal.

    I mean, no, we really can’t. There’s not enough data available (that I’m willing to search for) to say for absolutely sure that excess deaths has increased and will stay high, but even just the snapshot you provided here shows that it’s slightly lower in January, and massively higher the rest of the year. Maybe the May 2023 data shows that the numbers are evening out compared to 2016-2019, but the one year we actually get to see shows way more excess deaths over the course of a year compared to before. You can’t just look at the most recent month, that’s not how yearly trends and averages work.

    You won’t have much of an argument that the numbers are going back to “normal” until you’ve got closer to a full year’s worth of data with that excess deaths line being close to zero.

    Urist ,
    @Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yea, “totally absolute for sure” was the standard you applied to yourself, I assume, when you talked about how thousands will die for sure in the coming years in perpetuity? The numbers for 2023 are no higher than normal either, and this time I won’t bother to dig them up for you just so you can make a shitty accusation about me cropping a screenshot to not include info or something. There is no data that backs the claims you have made. I have provided more than sufficient for mine.

    Edit: I guess next time I see a fucking “mOVInG tHe GOOalPoSt!!!” I will take the clue and not fucking bother.

    ltxrtquq , (edited )

    The numbers for 2023 are no higher than normal either

    The numbers for 2023 in the 2-3 months you have data for. Look at the rest of the graph, how it starts off lower in January and is higher for the rest of the year. Go back up and look at this graph https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/77a880db-13fc-4dc7-b78b-19daccd7f771.png

    and see how covid comes in waves each year, not evenly distributed throughout. Then go back and look at this graph https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/stories/2022/03/united-states-deaths-spiked-as-covid-19-continued-figure-2.jpg

    and see that based on the data we have in the US, deaths per year has stayed above the previous yearly patterns. We don’t have all the data over a long period of time because covid hasn’t been around for all that long. But from what we can see so far, it kills people. The exact number per year remains to be seen, but from the data we have it’s been in the thousands, just in Norway.

    Edit: I guess next time I see a fucking “mOVInG tHe GOOalPoSt!!!” I will take the clue and not fucking bother.

    Half of the sources you posted actively worked against your own arguments. Maybe you shouldn’t bother.

    EDIT of my own: After looking at one of your sources (Eurostat)

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/1fd3982e-6bff-4adc-a0c1-5965dcf6e7ac.png

    you can see that January-March was lower than 2016-2019, but it’s been on the rise again across the EU, and especially in Norway. Again, you can’t just look at one single month and decide that it’s representative of everything, everywhere, across all time going forward.

    TengoDosVacas ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    lolcatnip ,

    It’s sometimes hard to say an individual death was for sure caused by COVID, but it’s easy to compare the number of deaths to the historical average and see how many more happened. It’s really the only way to get a good count of COVID related deaths, because looking at excess deaths will also reveal how many people are being killed indirectly, such as dying due to lack of medical care because COVID was overwhelming the hospitals.

    Urist , (edited )
    @Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

    I agree with you and actually argued for this further down some comment chain. However, mortality increase was temporary in Norway where I am from (and AFAIK mostwhere in Europe), hence indicate that there is no uncontrolled pandemic here.

    Here is an infographic from the start of 2023:

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/1797bb0e-03ea-440d-a7b4-64151d57aee7.jpeg

    ltxrtquq ,

    You should probably be looking at trends over a longer period of time, rather than just a single month.

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/1fd3982e-6bff-4adc-a0c1-5965dcf6e7ac.png

    From here. There was a dip below the 2016-2019 average in January through March of 2023, but time marches on.

    theletterd ,

    How many non-Americans died as a result of 9/11? How many in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries in the global war on terror? I’m guessing a shit ton more than 30,000.

    It’s only going to increase every day the hostages aren’t returned.

    feedum_sneedson ,

    Like a million just in Iraq I think.

    dumpsterlid ,

    What a stunning fucking number, it isn’t just murder on a mass scale, it is the denial of an entire future reality for a country because of the massive empty spaces all that destruction and death cause.

    Maggoty ,

    Lol no. Most studies are in the 250,000 to 500,000 range and include deaths because of coalition forces, the civil war (“sectarian violence”), and AQ.

    This is also over a much larger population, time period, and area.

    feedum_sneedson ,

    Bunch of children died due to a reduction in quality of diet, healthcare, education. A lot of it was sanction related. Believe it or not, didn’t pull the number out of my arse.

    Maggoty ,

    So you’re using the study that adds in assumed deaths in the ten years before the Iraq war as a misleading figure for the Iraq war. Just so we’re clear that isn’t an apples to apples comparison. Unless you want to put the work in to check those numbers for Gaza since the mid 2000’s when Israel began it’s blockade.

    But that would require acknowledging the last 15 to 20 years of Israeli fuckery. So instead you went and found the biggest possible number to tag the US with as some kind of perverse shield for Israeli war crimes.

    feedum_sneedson ,

    God, people on Lemmy are weird.

    meliaesc ,

    Jesus you people are never happy.

    cecinestpasunbot ,

    Biden gave material support to Israel’s genocidal campaign which has killed over 30,000 people. You’re delusional if you think paying lip service to a ceasefire while still actively supporting the genocide is going to satisfy anyone.

    lagomorphlecture ,

    Cool, cool. Are we still supplying weapons to Israel? Give the weapons to Ukraine and tell Israel that’s enough genocide for now.

    filister ,

    Didn’t he claim he will airdrop humanitarian aid in Ukraine.

    Damn you guys behind the pond should introduce a law setting the max age a person can hold a presidential position. There is a reason why old people are not given a driver’s license and you should take the cue and do something about it.

    TacoButtPlug ,
    @TacoButtPlug@sh.itjust.works avatar

    We’re trying but we’re up against hateful shitty old fucks who have a deathgrip on positions of power, absolutely stupid masses who enjoy a steady diet of warped theocratic leadership mixed in with batshit conspiracy, an alarming growing group of outright fascist af young people, and then a rather large contingent of apathetic cunts who can’t be bothered with doing the bare minimum in civic duties. It’s a fucking mess here. Not looking great.

    dumpsterlid ,

    I don’t disagree with you but at least along the issue of Gaza, young people are OVERWHELMING on the side of reason and that is heartening even while it is heartbreaking to see it doesn’t fucking move the needle on Biden’s actions even a nanometer.

    absentbird OP ,
    @absentbird@lemm.ee avatar

    It seems to be moving his actions somewhat. He’s calling for a ceasefire and airdropping aid to Gaza. I feel like a lot of that is due to pressure from constituents.

    dumpsterlid ,

    Yeah kinda feels like he is airdropping hotdogs into a baseball stadium though, like, ok those people needed hot dogs but what about the whole hot dog distributing apparatus that is surrounding all those people with multiple concession stands distributed strategically throughout the stadium to minimize congestion and even people walking around who specialize in just distributing hot dogs. Kinda feels like you are beating around the bush buddy when you plan to airdrop hotdogs into the baseball stadium instead of just having all of those people and systems start giving people hotdogs who need them.

    I hope the pressure keeps making him take concrete steps though.

    TacoButtPlug ,
    @TacoButtPlug@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Gotta wonder if he’d care if it weren’t election season, though. After his whole four year term he finally got around to wiping my student debt a week ago. I know that was election driven.

    Facebones ,

    Oh we let old people drive too, there’s not really any tangible system for ensuring they’re still capable. There’s a way your doctor can have it pulled but healthcare is privatized so they’ll just shop around for the guy who’ll say it’s totally fine if they have to.

    My ex’s mom randomly passed out completely multiple times a day sometimes, it never got pulled - until some innocent pedestrian paid the ultimate price for eagle fuckin American “freedom.”

    TransplantedSconie , (edited )

    He had to. He should have done it months ago tbh.

    The mowing down of 700 people and killing 100 who were trying to get food and water is the last straw. Bibi is toast now. You’ll see a speech in the Knesset soon calling for his ouster and an end to the veto coverage Israel had in the UN.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    He could have done this in October.

    Is it too little too late to save his presidential run?

    We’ll see. He has to get the ceasefire first.

    (There was another time Israel bombed and aid convoy (waiting till the aid was in a position to be destroyed), back in October, so its not like the first time they’ve done this even in this conflict.)

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    Honestly if he stops this mess now he should get enough lesser evil votes. Gotta also revert his position on the border and other things, but he still has time to save his campaign.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    His actually al strategy right now is just so fucking stupid.

    It’s like he thinks he’s going to appeal to voters by taking in Trump’s policies.

    He’s got no read on the country ATM.

    DreamDrifter ,

    Or he could do what most of the county wants, and give us meaningful change. That’s what has been drawing voters since Obama, that’s why Trump won in the first place - Hillary is the status quo incarnate

    But we’ve been strung along for way too long, he needs to take a stand and make some enemies

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    I mean yeah but if he was going to do that he wouldn't be Genocide Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden.

    FenrirIII ,
    @FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

    Pretty sure the government has been trying to talk Israel down since things got way out of scope in November. But Bibi wants blood.

    Pyr_Pressure ,

    Bibi is now Hitler Lite in my opinion. The number of deaths aren’t quite there or the level of cruelty, but the intent and mindset is exactly the same and he could easily get to that cruelty and deathcount if not stopped.

    JJROKCZ ,

    I don’t think there are enough Palestinians on the planet to hit the body count of the holocaust… but that doesn’t mean that Israel’s actions are a lesser evil. Genocide is genocide

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    Yeah which is why they said the scale is different. They're talking about the mindset because let's face it, Israel wants to turn Gaza into Lebensraum. They've been pretty clear about that.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s exactly what it means, what? Must be cool to live on an island unto yourself. In the real world choices have consequences though.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    The amount of children being killed in Gaza every day matches that of a big concentration camp at the peak of the Holocaust.

    jonne ,

    Talking him down while sending more weapons in violation of US law?

    index ,

    Pretty sure the government has been trying to talk Israel down since things got way out of scope in November.

    Wrong, government backed israel and provided them military aid and weapons.

    Nudding ,

    What world do you live in lol. They had Bidens support since 1970. Pelosi too. They were completely on board until like yesterday, due to pressure from the voter base.

    octopus_ink ,

    How the hell are you being downvoted? This is objectively true.

    ___ ,

    Don’t call him Bibi. He deserves no cute nicknames which downplay these atrocities.

    index ,

    He had to. He should have done it months ago tbh.

    The plan was to do it after gaza has been destroyed

    cogman ,

    This is such a misleading headline, it’s propaganda. Biden Did not say “Immediate ceasefire, no excuses” Boy I wish he did. Instead he said “Boy I hope we have a cease fire. There’s no excuses for Israel keeping aid from going in”.

    TCGM ,
    @TCGM@lemmy.world avatar

    About fuckin time, Joe!

    hark ,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    If only the president of the united states had power to do something about this!!!

    SuddenDownpour ,

    Plenty of countries would have been capable of forcing themselves into the situation, if only they weren’t legitimately afraid of Israel retaliating and the US backing them in their retaliation.

    BigMacHole ,

    We’re going to pull out EVERY Stop! Like Air Dropping food to Palestine and Bombs also to Palestine!

    FrostKing ,

    It’s important to note that we can essentially do this because we’re providing aid to Israel. In my mind it’s sort of the best of a horrible situation, but at least with us aiding them, we can insist on certain conditions. Rare Biden W, in my mind.

    samsepi0l ,

    They need to make the aid conditional. It won’t do much immediately but it is an essential step to stopping the genocide that is currently happening.

    dumpsterlid ,

    The engine of this genocide would have ground to halt before tens of thousands of innocent people were doomed to death if Biden hadn’t specifically blocked other UN powers from forming a coalition with overwhelming international leverage to force Israel to stop slaughtering Palestinians.

    This isn’t a “glad Biden is in the room to temper a bunch of insane, violent people” situation, Biden specifically allowed this entire situation to happen more than any other international figure outside of Israel.

    Biden has an immense amount of blood on his hands.

    Maggoty ,

    Except Netanyahu already told him to go piss in a pot on any deal.

    Haha ,

    Dont get hopes up, its a a stunt for reelection

    lolcatnip ,

    Almost everything any politician does is because they think it will help them get reelected. That doesn’t mean it’s not the right thing to do.

    Haha ,

    That just means to me that they dont really care about what people wants until they need people. Thats very hypocritical honestly.

    nurple ,
    @nurple@lemmy.world avatar

    Welcome to politics.

    Solrac ,

    Isn’t funny how they were an arms dealer and NOW, after what feels like total anahilation, do they say enough is enough?

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