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Steamymoomilk ,

Ahh i remember the days of the school shitbook pros. That kids is why when 2020 rolled around and all my classes went to online and they wanted me to use there laptops provided. I made a disk image of the ssd and ran it all in a VM with usb passthrough. Cant acess my webcam if there is none!

cashmaggot ,

I am absolutely not terribly invested here. But I wanted to kick something around (I opened the wiki and just decided I don't care that much to invest time into this but it is a thought kicking around my brain so I figured I'll express it here) - I am wondering if the school that did this is relatively wealthy. As Macbooks aren't cheap, and I think most schools were tossing around chromebooks instead right? So perhaps the reason why nobody ultimately got in the appropriate amount of trouble for this crime is because they themselves were people of a certain status. Or knew how to grease the right palms.

hypeerror ,

It’s a suburb just outside Philadelphia and has some very wealthy parts. Kobe Bryant grew up there.

cashmaggot ,

Yeah, see. I've seen some schools in my travels that make me want to slap someone. Because I am astonished at how far the haves and the have nots are apart. But also, I'd say in general whenever the sentence never seems to align with the punishment you can bet there's some classist mechanisms in the works.

kungen ,

The program began in the 2009 school year. The first Cr-48 was released in December 2010.

MissJinx ,
@MissJinx@lemmy.world avatar

As a cybersecurity specialist even using my phone kind of give me the creeps. Anyone anytime can access your camera easily, BUT if the item was issued by a third party always assume they are spying. I’ve seen this happend in huge corporations that you would not believe do that. Also a 20 something IT support guy have access to it for sure.

Be safe, if you cant format or disable the driver for microphone and camera just turn it off when naked please

Anticorp ,

Turning it off is zero guarantee. Get a physical cover for the camera. If you can’t get a physical cover, then put electrical tape over it.

radicalautonomy ,
@radicalautonomy@lemmy.world avatar

I hate Apple so god damned much. When I got started in 2003 with the cohort I was in for my elementary education degree, the university required us to get an Apple MacBook G4. We weren’t allowed to choose any other laptop, just that one, and we had to get it from the campus computer store (so of course the school was getting a kickback 🖕).

The power cord on those had a weird round dongle on the end that plugged into the computer. In the center of the dongle was a very thin pin. So, of course, I accidentally tripped on it, and the pin snapped off inside the computer. Easy enough to remove, but it meant I had to buy a brand new adapter to do my coursework.

$80.

Eighty fucking dollars. And there were no third-party adapters at the time (at least when I looked). Oh, and that replacement adapter? CAUGHT ON FUCKING FIRE.

I have not spend a dime on anything Apple touches since then. I’ve been issued iPads by school districts for which I’ve worked in the past, but those pretty much stay locked up in my cabinet. Nope…no Apple Music, no Apple TV, not even a covered-by-the-district $1.99 app for my school iPad.

Luckily, as teacher, I’ve either been issued a Dell or at the very least a MacBook Air with Windows 10 bootcamped every year since. Unfortunately, I am in a new district in Oregon this year (had been in Texas), and my device this year is a non-bootcampable MacBook Air. 🤬

Don_Dickle OP ,

When I was in nursing school I saw all my classmates typing on the brand new Mac’s . And I was sitting there typing on a Toshiba then I gave up the computer and just started writing because I knew ahead of time I would have to prove myself in the field more than getting an A. I got out with a B in all my classes. But somewhere there are many nurses who got D and can barely do field work. I was lucky to have a mom as a nurse. But when I go to a doctors office and a PRN is asking me questions I always ask where did you go to school and so forth. They usually get pissed but I do not care because they relay shit to the doctor. And 90 percent of the time when you go to rural doctors they just read the shit on the screen and go by that. I can say this as a traveling nurse and an ex opiod addict.

GenderNeutralBro ,

The power cord on those had a weird round dongle on the end that plugged into the computer

FUCK THOSE CHARGERS.

I mean yeah, the entire industry was riddled with shitty chargers at that time, but these were the worst.

jadedwench ,

If it helps, you can at least use any USBC charger you want now. I love my M1 air, but have some similar ranty feelings about the older models from 10-15 years ago. I hope you at least give it a chance. I don’t think I could ever go back to Windows. It is Mac or Linux for me.

radicalautonomy ,
@radicalautonomy@lemmy.world avatar

Oh I know, but it’s not about the charger at this point; it’s about the company and their stupid, stupid operating system that is dumb.

LordCrom ,

Heh, just keep the laptop shut and use external monitor kbd and mouse.

ulkesh ,
@ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

Not all kids can afford that.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Yeah, a piece of tape much cheaper

SnapZinger ,

Dell and other Windows based OEM laptop manufactures have built in camera covers now-a-days. Just saying.

octopus_ink ,

It’s worth reading the entire article, it just gets worse and worse.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), U.S. Attorney’s Office, and Montgomery County District Attorney all initiated criminal investigations of the matter, which they combined and then closed because they did not find evidence “that would establish beyond a reasonable doubt that anyone involved had criminal intent”.

That’s not even close to the worst thing in the article, but GG justice system. I’ll remember this one day when I’m in court. “Well I didn’t have criminal intent.”

That’s a defense now?? One that removes the need to even have a trial at all??

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/ccdffaf0-df63-4c39-8c8c-7edc336a35df.jpeg

Warl0k3 ,

Its been a defence for several hundred years, in fact! Showing intent is one of the three things you need to establish in every criminal case for it to be considered valid. Fuck the cops for dropping this case though, how in hell was there no intent to commit a crime here wtf.

Transporter_Room_3 ,
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

Weird, I’ve literally always heard “ignorance of the law is no excuse to break the law”, which seems to imply criminal intent doesn’t matter. Only that the action that was take was illegal.

Maggoty ,

There are strict liability crimes. Like if you admit to shooting someone but maintain it was an accident. You won’t get a murder charge, (or murder 1 depending on state) but you are going to get time in prison.

Lost_My_Mind ,

Well…you see…here’s the thing…

Fuck you!

~Sincerely, the rich and elite, which control the legal system which is not meant to ever be in YOUR favor. It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.

Transporter_Room_3 ,
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

System working as intended.

spongebue ,

It’s not intent to break the law, it’s intent to do what you did. If I walk out of a store with a can of tuna I didn’t pay for, that’s shoplifting, right? Well, not necessarily.

If I walk into a store, pick it up off the shelf, hide it in my jacket, and dart for the exit, probably.

If my toddler slipped it into my jacket pocket, and I didn’t notice, probably not.

If I put it in my jacket pocket because my toddler started to run away, I forgot about it, and paid for a cart of groceries… Maybe? But unlikely to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn’t an accident.

chiliedogg ,

Intent to perform an action.

If they legitimately didn’t know there was spying software on the computers and it was discovered later then they didn’t intend to do it. But they did intend to spy on the students, and it doesn’t matter if they thought it was legal.

lolcatnip ,

“Strict liability” crimes are the exception to that rule. A lot of relatively minor crimes, like code violations or letting minors into a bar, are in that category.

delirious_owl , (edited )
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Its always been intent. If you pay with counterfeit bills but didn’t realize because you got them from the shop that gave you change, you didn’t intend to do fraud.

Intent matters, always has.

OlinOfTheHillPeople ,

Of course, but in this case, their intent was to spy on children.

TokenBoomer ,

The use of the software after installation conveys criminal intent. IANAL. How could you use the software in a home environment without criminal intent?

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Yes

spongebue ,

It seems like it to you and me. At a trial, we’d hear their side of the story. Maybe there’s some explanation that could make it somewhat reasonable, and you would have a hard time convincing a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

If I remember correctly, students had to pay extra to take their laptops home, I believe an insurance fee of some kind. The student whose family filed a lawsuit did not pay that. The laptop was supposed to be at school, but was not. In that case, there may have been reasonable doubt that the school was trying to track down its missing property that should not be outside of school grounds.

octopus_ink ,

But they did mean to take pictures of minors in the privacy of their bedrooms in the name of stopping petty theft which I’m doubtful would have occurred on any meaningful scale in the first place. Whether they meant it “criminally” seems immaterial here. I think they got off exceptionally light, and it’s a travesty of justice. You won’t convince me otherwise.

I feel very sure we have prisons full of people who didn’t mean to do whatever they did to be there.

SulaymanF ,

The article actually goes easy on them. The first plaintiff sued because the student was brought into the principal’s office and told they were being suspended for drug use, and as evidence showed a photo of them eating something in their room. It turned out to be Mike and Ike’s candy. The family was so upset they were spying on the child in their bedroom that it escalated to an investigation and then the scandal unfolded.

The school tried to backpedal and claim that the app takes photos on a timer and they had no idea, and this was proven to be a lie in court when they showed the IT training video explaining how proud they were of the webcam snooping feature.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

It gets even worse: During the investigation, it was discovered that at least one person had copied videos and photos onto an external hard drive and taken them. The investigation never discovered who it was, or how many people had made copies; They just knew that files had been copied to at least one external storage drive.

The implication being that all of the teenage girls had their laptops open in their bedrooms, and at least one random employee had copies of their photos and videos.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

The implication being that all of the teenage girls had their laptops open in their bedrooms, and at least one random employee had copies of their photos and videos.

Sure but they couldn’t prove criminal intent so it’s ok.

/s

NateNate60 ,

“I like Apple devices because they respect my privacy”

667 ,
@667@lemmy.radio avatar

Except for the part where all that’s been preempted by organizational settings.

Out of the box, Apple does fairly well.

Zorsith ,
@Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Gotta respect a company that tells the US government to pound sand with regularity (when they want a phone cracked)

9point6 ,

“Apple gave data to law enforcement 90% of the time”

Apple’s apparent privacy stance is just marketing

JCreazy ,

Aren’t they required to by law?

thallamabond ,

Without a warrant no, but for the most part they do it willingly.

Moneo ,

Gotta respect a company

No you don’t

Zorsith ,
@Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Fair point! Fuck 'em. Theres always more reasons to NOT respect a corporation than there are to respect them.

ji17br ,

It’s worth noting that in recent MacBooks the camera can’t turn on if the led is off. It’s an electrical thing, not a software thing.

piccolo ,

Inb4 malware figures a way to over current the led and burn it out. I dont know why few manufacturers dont just put a simple sliding shutter over the camera.

lolcatnip ,

An LED is pretty damn simple and there’s no reason it would even be possible to control the voltage going to it. May as well worry about hackers finding a way to make a physical shutter transparent.

piccolo ,

depends how it’s implemented. And if it was so simple, why was it not the first solution instead of the more complex software controlled solution?

Also what about the scenario of the camera briefly enable to take snapshots? depending how fast the camera module turns on and sends back a signal… one could just create a timelaspe where the led flashes on inperceptively. A physical shutter cant be cicrucumvented and you can trust the camera is functionally useless until you need it.

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Am I the only person that immediately covers their webcam with Scotch’s Magic Tape? It frosts the image so that it doesn’t look like it has been covered but rather that it is extremely smudged and thus only silhouettes can be somewhat discerned.

c0smokram3r ,
@c0smokram3r@midwest.social avatar

Don’t forget the mic

Blaster_M ,

DELL laptops are neat in that they let you disable all these in the firmware.

ThePantser ,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

Even neater if there is a hardware switch to enable/disable on the fly.

Blaster_M ,

Dell work laptops and all in ones have had a manual slide shutter for years.

ThePantser ,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

But not mic, the mic and camera should have physical ways to disable.

hushable ,

it is best to switch to Linux so the webcam doesn’t work even if you wanted to

(old joke I know)

Fubarberry ,
@Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz avatar

Thankfully most laptops I see now come with a built in physical cover for the webcam.

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

The issue with those is that you might get told to uncover your camera. With Magic Tape you can always say that it is uncovered. Light goes through, so you can pretend that maybe the camera is busted.

Maggoty ,

If they tell you to uncover your camera at home then we got problems.

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

All the time in the corporate world. We have clients that require their employees to be on camera during Teams calls. We have it under our agreement with our clients that being on camera is at our employee’s discretion. Because clients often provide us with laptops to access their networks, we cover our cameras with tape and ask that the laptop be put in our storage cases when not in use. Also, if one of our employees is working on more than one client, no two client laptops can be on and out of their case at the same time.

Maggoty ,

Yeah but that’s a defined period on a video communication app. If I’m getting changed in my room and I get a message about my camera…

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

If I’m getting changed in my room and I get a message about my camera…

That is unjustifiable but not what I mean. An ex colleague of mine runs a company with some really questionable policies, but if you want to work there you have to agree. One of those policies is that your camera has to be on at all times during business hours. If you live in a studio apartment, then you better get dressed in the bathroom.

Maggoty ,

Again though, connected to an agreed time frame and with compensation. That’s a shit contract but one nonetheless. You keep bringing these examples and it’s going to start looking like you’re okay with the school spying on kids.

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

On the contrary, I think the practice is despicable. I don’t trust that companies or schools, or individuals in general will refrain from abusing power. Just because I do not trust, doesn’t mean I condone.

Once my colleague shifted into that dystopian business model which also included idle timers, key loggers, etc., I drifted away from him, as did many others in our group. The fucked thing about it all is that thanks to that, he is now a billionaire. This world is fucked.

cashmaggot ,

Hey maggoty!

Maggoty ,

Hi Maggot! Slow day?

cashmaggot ,

We put pimple patches on everything, they just fit right on. The acid might be affecting something, but stuff still seems to be okay. Patch on the mic, patch on the camera.

*Patches pop right off and are translucent. So yeah, same idea here. But also magic tape is the tits and idk why the hell people are downvoting Jo. Ya ding-dongs!

Cut that reddit bullshit out.

ulkesh ,
@ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

And in context of this post…Mac laptops do not. So the scotch tape (or black tape) idea is sound.

Chronographs ,

Maybe if it was something like this where it’s not my laptop but I’m not worried about people hacking my personal computer

cashmaggot ,

Nah, all the nerds I know do it. Not that you're a nerd Jo, you're cool af. But nerds can be cool, too! But Jo...ain't no nerd!

DaddleDew ,

So… Someone is going to jail for that, right?

Right?

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Settled for $610,000…so no. I feel like, given that minors were involved, the settlement should have been on top of criminal charges.

NoneYa ,

And I’m assuming that $610,000 came out of taxpayer funds, didn’t it?

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Always.

SecretSauces ,
@SecretSauces@lemmy.world avatar

And also didn’t go to any of the victims

HUMAN_TRASH ,

Says at the bottom, 175k to the first victim to open a case, 10k to the second case and… 475k to the lawyers.

SecretSauces ,
@SecretSauces@lemmy.world avatar

Well, I stand corrected… But Jesus those lawyer fees…

Sir_Kevin ,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I hate this country.

JudahBenHur ,

dont hate your country, hate lawyers.

here’s a quick one: Q: what do you call 500 lawyers at the bottom of a river? A: A good start.

and one more for fun

Q: How do you keep a lawyer from drowning? A: Take your foot off their throat

Sir_Kevin ,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I feel ya, but it’s way more than just lawyers.

june , (edited )
@june@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Usually when you hear about a settlement (and not a plea deal) that means this was a civil case and not a criminal one. A civil case doesn’t weigh in on whether or not criminal charges will be brought.

If enough people push the Attorney General of that state to pursue charges they still could (Edit: it’s been 14 years and the Statute of Limitations is 5 years for wiretapping which I think is the highest possible charge). But there is a higher standard for evidence in criminal trials. Not to mention the defense’s argument would likely be that schools have the right to wiretap students’ issued laptops, so the AG probably doesn’t want this to go to court and end up enshrining such a right when it currently holds civil liability due to the civil case succeeding.

TokenBoomer ,

Great answer

joel_feila ,
@joel_feila@lemmy.world avatar

Well if they recorded and student jerking it then the school made cp and. I doubt theor is a limitation on that.

yetAnotherUser ,

Why tf are your AGs allowed to just ignore crimes? Aren’t there laws to prevent selective enforcement like this?

Septimaeus ,

In our court system, precedent (an existing ruling by a higher court on a similar case) often weighs heavily in future court cases. IIRC the point of this doctrine is fairness and legitimacy by consistency of rulings.

Its weaknesses, however, include the ability to set a bad precedent. For this reason, our AGs sometimes ignore potential cases if they’re not sure they can win.

In other words, this case might not have been quite the slam dunk the headline would suggest.

MindTraveller ,

wiretapping which I think is the highest possible charge

Wouldn’t the highest charge be all that child pornography they intentionally created?

RecallMadness ,

Is there any evidence of it? The Wikipedia page says “which may include unclothed or partially clothed photos” but doesn’t necessarily mean there is any.

MindTraveller ,

If you run always-on cameras in thousands of teenage bedrooms, you will get child porn.

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