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Google Chrome’s plan to limit ad blocking extensions kicks off next week

Reminder to switch browsers if you haven’t already!

  • Google Chrome is starting to phase out older, more capable ad blocking extensions in favor of the more limited Manifest V3 system.
  • The Manifest V3 system has been criticized by groups like the Electronic Frontier Foundation for restricting the capabilities of web extensions.
  • Google has made concessions to Manifest V3, but limitations on content filtering remain a source of skepticism and concern.
thefrankring ,
@thefrankring@lemmy.world avatar

Is that only for Chrome or all Chromium-based browsers?

Trail ,

Happy to be corrected, but as I have understood it in the past, all of them.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

First one, then the others eventually.

Just use Firefox :)

zipzoopaboop ,

I’ve used Firefox since before it was called Firefox, but just last week I hit two instances where stuff I required for work required Chrome :(

PlutoniumAcid ,
@PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world avatar

Stuff you need for work don’t usually need any ad blocking to start with so that would be good enough.

zipzoopaboop ,

Still feels bad that I need it to be installed, and more stuff in the future could require it. They were major sites that my business works with and does not own

themachine ,

They don’t get money from installs. Just ads and google products usage.

roofuskit ,

If anything, only using it for sites that won’t generate ad revenue costs them money.

billiam0202 ,

Does it “require” Chrome, or does it require a Chrome user agent? I also have one of those sites for my job, but changing the user agent for that site in FFx works flawlessly.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve got an office that prioritizes Edge for internal apps. I’ve been watching the Clippy-esque intrusive Microsoft options filling up my screen space like a late-90s Yahoo toolbar.

thefrankring ,
@thefrankring@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not that simple.

I need very niche Chromium-based extensions for my work. They don’t yet exist on Firefox. Nor any replacements to my knowledge.

They aren’t ad-related, but I don’t know what’s going to happen to them.

SreudianFlip ,

I, too, am forced to use Chrome for parts of my work.

I just run Chrome for that set of tasks. Then quit, or tab to Firefox for regular browsing.

This is SOP when dealing with uglies like google, microsoft, amazon, adobe, or meta: do the toxic thing or software they require, as sandboxed as reasonable, then get back to daily life and more knowable risks.

thefrankring ,
@thefrankring@lemmy.world avatar

Currently, I use Brave. Not Chrome.

I have all the benefits of Chromium-based without the Google’s spyware.

I don’t see myself going back and forth between 2 web browsers. I prefer choosing one that fills everything that I need, sticking with it and moving on with my life.

But since Chromium is mostly backed by Google, I don’t know the long-term implications of using Chromium based.

SreudianFlip ,

Yeah, but that’s just it, there is no one thing that fulfils all your needs if you are forced to use a particular tool, but it lacks privacy or freedom or other features.

I use chrome because I have to and also am curious and I need to know about how Google runs its shit. I run Firefox because of various features it has that are good for web development. I run Safari because it is fast and relatively private outside of the Apple ecosystem And has some great developer tools.

The effort of one keyboard twitch to move from one browser to the other is not really any amount of friction for me. It’s easier than switching from one tab to another inside the same browser, so I don’t get your fixation on a single tool.

And as a PS, I won’t touch Brave with a 10 foot pole anymore because of their Fuckery with crypto.

thefrankring ,
@thefrankring@lemmy.world avatar

Brave isn’t perfect but seems to be my best option so far.

Most of the time, you can disable the ‘unpleasant’ stuff.

But no web browser is perfect.

Maybe Ungoogled Chromium could be good as well. But requires more tweaking and setting out of the box.

Rolando ,

Same. I got a cheap Chromebook and a no-contract flip phone and only use google on that.

BorgDrone ,

I’ll stick with Safari thank you very much. I don’t trust Firefox any more than I do Chrome. They have too much of a history of shady stuff.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

OK, they asked about Chromium, though.

BorgDrone ,

Switching from Chrome to Firefox is like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Not even remotely

bc93 ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    BorgDrone ,

    Different incentives. Apple makes privacy a selling point, and I’m the one paying. Who’s paying for Chrome and Firefox?

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    Yup. All the big guys will enshittify.

    Luckily, there’s Linux and you can use Brave or Firefox.

    Eezyville ,
    @Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Isn’t Brave Chromium based?

    thefrankring ,
    @thefrankring@lemmy.world avatar

    Brave is Chromium based.

    kilgore_trout ,

    Both.

    Zink ,

    Fortunately I at least have Firefox on Linux. But then when I need to use Windows for something… well look at that, also Firefox!

    daniskarma ,

    I’ve been way more than a decade (closer to two decades) uninterruptedly using Firefox. I’ve never used chrome as a my main browser, ever.

    But still, I’ll be naive if I didn’t recognize that this kind of shit will affect me even if it’s just indirectly.

    Next year they’ll surely will be forcing many webs only working in “manifest V3 compliant browsers”. I’m sure of that.

    exanime ,

    The problem is that Firefox has like a crumb of the market and it’s held by a lifeline given by Google itself

    There is no guarantee Firefox would survive the long term … Heck it would die short after Google decides to cut them off

    NutWrench ,
    @NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

    Back in the Dim Times (1990s), before ad-blockers appeared, there was a program called WebWasher. It’s basically a proxy server you run on your own computer and it contained all the ad filters. You just configured your browsers network setting to point to WebWasher and it would handle all the ad filtering.

    So even if companies completely remove extension support from their browsers, we’ll still have an alternative. :)

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    That man-in-the-middle principle doesn’t work with TLS.

    ruse8145 ,

    But ads are still often delivered by content delivery which is blockable by domain, hence the reason piholes work. Not that in-stream ads aren’t the future, perhaps, but life finds a way.

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    What you’re describing is not a man-in-the-middle proxy, but a simple DNS block. That’s a very crude approach to blocking ads and notoriously doesn’t work for YouTube and Google ads because they’re served from the same domain.

    I run a pihole myself but there’s still a huge difference between browsing with pihole only and pihole+ublock. It’s certainly not the answer to the Manifest V3 shenanigans.

    ruse8145 ,

    however its relatively rare that an ad company provides a bunch of services I want to use. The only exception i can think of is google.

    obvs its hard to avoid gmaps because the alternatives are beyond godawful (no, openstreetmaps, i didn’t want to go to the coffee shop of the same name in connecticut, I wanted to go to the one 3 km away), but for youtube I use a python tool called youtube-local which is very very effective, strong rec. Im sure google will defeat them eventually, but so far all of the incremental “block a little of this, block a little of that” stuff the g-man has been doing has been bypassed within a few days. Viewtube is also pretty easy to self-host, but they never quite figured out how to make the UI work.

    exanime ,

    Hey that’s awesome! Thanks for sharing

    chris_hayes ,
    @chris_hayes@lemmy.ml avatar

    Still not unheard of today if you’re using a VPN. For example, if you’re using Mozilla VPN (Mulvad), in the DNS settings it gives you choices between regular DNS, DNS + ad blocking, or DNS + ad blocking + tracker blocking.

    I did not know about WebWasher, that’s very interesting.

    TheChargedCreeper864 ,

    Firefox is looking to implement Manifest V3 to keep extension feature parity with Chromium, but their version will not ban the one API that adblockers use. So Firefox will eventually be V3 compliant

    archomrade , (edited )

    Maybe it’s my tinfoil hat but if any part of this is related to their google’s pursuit of ad revenue, I don’t imagine a v3 compliant Firefox will work with adblock for long.

    At the very least they would probably make using it a huge headache

    edit to make it clear who I was referring to

    NikkiDimes ,

    Firefox has ad revenue?

    archomrade ,

    I’m realizing that was unclear.

    I meant google’s maifest v3, not firefox’s implementation of it.

    NikkiDimes ,

    Ah, appreciate the clarification. I’d also just woken up and hopped on Lemmy, so maybe partially my fault 😋

    thesilverpig ,

    I switched to chrome because they were the first to have each tab be it’s own process so one bad site/connection did crash the whole program. Also the cloud based password saving across devices was super convenient.

    Firefox does both now too, has better ad blocking, and is a little less invasive and bloaty. A lot less invasive if you know how to set it up, which I don’t.

    But yeah, Firefox is my guy again

    SpaceCadet ,
    @SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

    Same here. Made the switch back to Firefox a year ago when I saw the writing on the wall about where Google wanted to take Chrome with Manifest V3.

    enbyecho , (edited )

    This post reminded me to try out Brave. It’s based on Chromium but purports to block ads and trackers…

    Anybody else use it?

    Edit: Interesting. Anyone care to explain the downvotes? I know nothing about this browser other than it purportedly blocks Youtube ads, which are driving me nuts.

    Edit2: Well shit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich

    I had no idea about this guy. Ok, so completely not an option.

    cyberic ,
    @cyberic@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    My brother uses it, just remember to look through the ad settings. There was a toggle at one point to allow their approved ads or something like that.

    kusivittula ,

    i tried brave recently after finding out it’s open source, and that setting is off by default. ended up keeping firefox, because on android somehow the new tab page in brave is even worse than in ff. too tricky to access bookmarks.

    ruse8145 ,

    I still to this day don’t know how to get back to the tab I was on in firefox-android if I get to the new tab screen. It’s been 2 or 3 years since the redesign.

    kusivittula ,

    you need to close keyboard, hit the tab icon on the address bar and select the tab. easier way is to open some recent website and either close the current one or swipe from the address bar. it’s stupid.

    ruse8145 ,

    Sigh, thank you

    ruse8145 ,

    Iirc there was also some drama about the money they collect not going to the promised destination. Anywhere other than silicon valley this might be called fraud.

    astropenguin5 ,

    They still might be forced to follow chromium’s manifest v3 ant ad locking stuff though, we’ll just have to see.

    ruse8145 ,

    No I’m pro lgbtq folks having rights

    enbyecho , (edited )

    How does this relate to Brave browser?

    Edit: I had no idea about the CEO. So yeah, not gonna ever use that.

    ruse8145 ,

    yep :(

    very disappointing all round. on a sliding scale thats not the worst thing brave has done, but given that the entire browser was literally birthed from “we don’t want your hate here” its hard to avoid.

    RokAlamSeth ,

    Too bad for your little black and white worldview those are the same people against adblockers. The good thing is this world has sensible people like me who could give less of a fuck who’s feeling is getting hurt and only care about our browsing experience. The rest can go die for all I care.

    ruse8145 ,

    What the actual duck are you talking about? I genuinely can’t figure it out.

    RokAlamSeth ,

    filtered

    abbiistabbii ,
    @abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I say this a lot but get Firefox.

    Defaced ,

    Good thing I exclusively use Firefox.

    majestictechie ,

    The silver lining here is that you’d hope that more people will simply adopt Firefox. It’s user share has been too low for too long given how great it is

    llama ,
    @llama@midwest.social avatar

    They messed up 10 years ago when for some reason it took ages for Firefox to load compared to Chrome, and sadly it never really recovered the user base even though the performance is vastly improved.

    ruse8145 ,

    To be fair, even in 2006 the Mozilla corporation was never going to outspend Firefox

    Especially not given how much Mozilla wastes on executive compensation ;)

    KairuByte ,
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Their user share was pretty okay for a while, but bombed when Chrome first released because it was much more performant. Unfortunately, that stigma never quite fell off and they lost a huge opportunity to overtake the market.

    InternetPerson ,

    How was it more performant? As I remember it, Chrome was loading websites not noticeably faster than Firefox, as website loading speed depended and still depends mainly on your internet connection and hardware anyway.

    As I remember it, Chrome exploded because it was pushed onto users at every possible opportunity while Firefox depended (and still depends) on users actively looking for it.

    Used Google or Google products? Get ads for Chrome. Wanted to download Google Earth? You had to activly uncheck a box such that Chrome wasn’t going to be installed as well. Meanwhile no ads and not the same amount of exposure for Firefox.

    That way they achieved a critical mass and snowballing did the rest. There were so many users using it that it was considered a good choice just because it was used by many people.

    Regarding the performance aspect, if there even was a noticeable difference, it was worse than Firefox. Where else did the “Chrome eating RAM” memes come from?

    Kiosade ,

    I just remember Firefox around that time and for like over a decade just felt bloated and super slow in comparison. No idea if it’s better these days or what.

    ruse8145 ,

    Its much better, and indistinguishable from a usage standpoint against chrome (I use Google garbage at work and they deliberately hamstring it in Firefox, so I use both browsers side by side)

    Biggest Firefox win is containers and privacy. Chrome probably has better absolute security (based purely on the concept that non-private security is Google’s whole schtick, not based on data) and in the last year it’s gotten better memory management (via sleeping tabs) that Firefox just hasn’t caught up with…but there’s an addon for that ;)

    InternetPerson ,

    I’d say give it a try and see for yourself.

    I can just recommend using Firefox for a multitude of reasons. However, I am biased as I have been using firefox for almost two decades and did not have many reasons to complain.

    KairuByte ,
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I was a Firefox user at the time, using adblockers, and the swap was a huge improvement to my browsing experience. I can’t even remember all the ways, since this was a decade ago. But at the time, Firefox was in a lul.

    Things likely swapped pretty fast, but I wasn’t aware of it at the time because I was already using Chrome.

    No ads swayed me, no Google specific sites, it wasn’t side loaded with anything.

    The Chrome eating ram memes came much later, after the enshitification process reached the third step. You seem to be compressing the entirety of both browsers into a single moment, and that’s not really how time works.

    InternetPerson ,

    I understand that you made such an experience, but I can’t share it though. I’ve been a Firefox user for almost as long as Firefox exists, which is almost two decades. (I think I joined somewhere between 2005-2007). I’ve tried other browsers, sometimes I had to. However, I didn’t notice any benefits compared to Firefox. Especially not in performance. Even though benchmarks have always shown clear differences, they weren’t significant enough for me to consider switching, as the difference really didn’t impact my browsing experience.

    Regarding the memes: That was just a random annectode which I found suitable here. I don’t claim it has been that way since the beginning. (Can’t relate to that anyway.) But given that it has been around for a while, I don’t see how performance can be an argument in favour of Chrome in this.

    ruse8145 ,

    I think you are misremembering. Chrome won at the start because it was fast as fuck and Firefox was not. Firefox caught back up in the 2016 time frame iirc and they’ve been back and forth ever since.

    Ironically chrome was named so as a goal was to reduce the chrome of the UI and focus on the web content, something recent versions of chrome and Firefox have abandoned in favor of massive swaths of whitespace and giant chrome buttons (on Firefox you can enable “unsupported” compact mode to reclaim some of the space if you’re on a laptop)

    thermal_shock ,

    agreed. chrome was bare ones and super fast when it was released. over the last two years it’s a fucking monster memory hog

    InternetPerson ,

    I’ve been a loyal Firefox user for almost as long as Firefox has existed. So I’m probably a bit biased. However, when I used other browsers, and if it wes just to try them out, I didn’t notice any benefits in terms of loading websites and executing their scripts. This includes Chrome. In benchmarks there are obviously differences visible, but to me as a user they didn’t matter. I wasn’t so short on time that I needed those microseconds. So I really don’t get how performance could be an argument in this.

    bc93 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    planish ,

    I remember it as, Firefox was fast enough, but Chrome was shipping a weirdly quick JS engine and trying to convince people to put more stuff into JS because on Chrome that would be feasible. Nowdays if you go out without your turbo-JIT hand-optimized JS engine everyone laughs at you and it’s Chrome’s fault.

    buddascrayon ,

    I think you’re ignoring the functional aspect of the integration of Chrome into the Android platform. A lot of people’s entire online life is stored within the walls of the Chrome ecosystem. And moving all of that to a completely different browser that is not fully integrated with Android is daunting to say the least.

    djsaskdja ,

    The situation is even more dire on iPhone.

    Moorshou ,

    What’s the new chrome integration?

    ruse8145 ,

    Didn’t say new, I’m assuming they refer to the WebView that many apps use which is chromium based. However if you have a calyx- or graphene- compatible phone the WebView will be non-g chromium.

    hogmomma ,

    For work, I use Chrome, but only because Firefox’s profile management is (more or less) nonexistent. Once they have that, which I understand isn’t too far out, I’m ditching Chrome entirely.

    majestictechie ,

    Have you thought about installing a Firefox fork? On my Work PC I use Firefox for work and Floorp for personal browsing.

    hogmomma ,

    What’s this, you say? Floorp? Sounds like you’re setting me up for a Futurama joke, or something.

    hogmomma ,

    I’ll see what’s up, as long as it doesn’t require admin rights.

    VerPoilu ,

    Unfortunately, I think that while ad blockers won’t work as well, they will still work good enough that most won’t bother making the switch.

    blog.getadblock.com/how-adblock-is-getting-ready-…

    github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBOL-home/wiki/

    adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-mv3.html

    www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/…/j3h00xj/

    The main issue I see is the slow update of filters (which require an extension update). This might make YouTube win the cat and mouse game. Where YouTube updates(ed?) their blocking detection multiple time a day.

    kyle ,

    To my shame, I’m still deeply ingrained in the Google ecosystem. I settled on it like 8-10 years ago and I’m not sure how to dig myself out of this pit. More than Chrome, I heavily use Docs, Sheets, Drive, Wallet, YouTube, Gmail, I even have a Pixel (I hate how bloated Samsung is).

    I’ve used Firefox a little for work because of the nice containers feature. Is Google Drive bad too? It’s so easy to share things, I torrent a lot of books and I’ve shared with a bunch of friends, idk if there’s an alternative that others could easily use.

    AnActOfCreation OP ,
    @AnActOfCreation@programming.dev avatar

    Don’t fret, I think a lot of us are on a long-term journey to de-Google. I’ve actually found that changing browsers is one of the easiest things to do, especially with the ability to import your bookmarks and such. With Firefox Sync, you pretty much have the same functionality as you would with your Google account signed into Chrome.

    TipRing ,

    Gmail is probably the hardest one to kick. I’m fine with paying for an email service if it’s functional and doesn’t siphon my personal data, but finding a quality trustworthy provider and then migrating 20 years of data to it seems so overwhelming.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    Why do you need to migrate 20 years of data? Do you actually look at anything more than a month or two old?

    That said, Protonmail has “Easy Switch” to copy emails and whatnot.

    The harder part for me is Drive, since there just isn’t a competitor that’s anywhere near as good in terms of overall experience. I’m going to try out OnlyOffice, but I know there are a few features I just won’t have anymore.

    TipRing ,

    I do occasionally need something from 10 or even 15 years ago, needing the exact date I sold a property or started a new project or even just jogging my memory of an old contact I am reaching again. While none of this is strictly necessary, I could make do without it if I had to, it does create inertia.

    I really need to check out Proton, Google is just getting worse and worse and the sooner I can get away from their ecosystem the better.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    Give it a shot! Worst case scenario, you just go back.

    AnActOfCreation OP ,
    @AnActOfCreation@programming.dev avatar

    I think migrating is the hardest part. My email history has a lot of important records and notes that I don’t want to lose.

    By the way, I recommend checking out this video, which makes a great point that email is inherently insecure, regardless of the provider you choose.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH626CXyNtE

    RichieRich ,
    @RichieRich@lemmy.world avatar

    Why do you need to access 20 years of data in Gmail? For archiving mails there is a cost-free tool called MailStore Home. It’s portable and fits on a USB thumb drive. Save two or more copies for data safety.

    www.mailstore.com/en/products/mailstore-home/

    So you can archive your mails without a hassle. Then you can choose any provider you want.

    ghost_towels ,

    Oh my gosh thank you!! I need this exact thing but hadn’t gotten around to figuring out a solution. Much appreciated!!

    ruse8145 ,

    Several practical solutions here but the simplest is probably to start with thunderbird on your home computer. That way storage limit shouldn’t be a worry and you can see if you find it searchable/usable enough. If so, you can do a Google takeout as a long term canonical archive, do a thunderbird backup to easily switch computers when the time comes, and then sign up for a privacy friendly service.

    I bought into proton for a bit but am very very against how they bundled their services and switched my mail to posteo, which i have had no issues with in the last 1.5 years or so. Tutanota was fine but firmly a third place opt for me. I also prefer posteo because I’m anti-magic: posteo has tons of options which can get you to same or better security than proton, but it doesn’t “just work” like protons security does. Both are great.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    Here’s what I did:

    1. switch to Firefox - works with all the Google crap, so it’s an easy switch
    2. get a slim wallet - I don’t need Google Wallet at all anymore, I just keep the two cards I use for everything easily accessible
    3. install GrapheneOS on my Pixel phone - can install sandboxed Google crap if you want (I do it in a separate profile)
    4. YouTube - install ad-block and use Grayjay on my phone to make it easier to watch non-YouTube channels
    5. forward all gmail to a new account (I picked Tuta, but Protonmail is probably better for most) - easy to configure forwards in gmail, and then I just give out my new email to family and friends; plan is to keep gmail for spam once I’m no longer getting important emails sent to my new email

    I’m still stuck with Google Drive though. As you said, it’s just so convenient. I’m trying out OnlyOffice with a self-hosted NextCloud instance, but there’s a lot of sacrifices. I have some complex spreadsheets, and switching to literally anything else loses features (I like the GOOGLEFINANCE() feature).

    But yeah, I wish Google didn’t suck, they have some really convenient products, I just don’t trust them anymore.

    InternetPerson ,

    Restore Privacy – Alternatives to Google Products – The Big List (2024)

    Emmie , (edited )

    I did it by selling soul to apple completely, I mean I am not going to peddle another company but at least it isn’t google. However I can afford to throw some cash on their overpriced stuff. They suck but at least they aren’t google. I don’t use any google services right now. Not even maps. Without any cons because obviously I just use apple stuff for everything wallet etc

    I could use framework laptop linux + graphene os but I need to live and thrive among ppl and also get that sweet social credit for not being a total nerd that yells about evil corps and how I have superior privacy in the basement left and right. However I would if it was socially acceptable.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    As with others, I use Firefox for my main browser, and Brave when I need a Chromium-based browser for something. I don’t see many ads…

    ruse8145 ,

    Consider ungoogled chromium instead. Brave is not great, it just has the advantage of being heavily promoted by the middle part of the (privacy nerds) and (want privacy because their beliefs are rejected by most of human society) venn diagram.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    I use that on my personal computer, but at work I’ll occasionally hit sites other than what I’m debugging, and Chromium has ineffective ad-block, whereas Brave has reasonable ad-block. I can’t control the network at work like I can at home, so I can’t really rely on something like a pi-hole or whatever.

    As a web browser with an embedded ad-blocker, it works fine. I’m not going to stop using something because someone distasteful is using it, I’ll stop using it if it no longer meets my needs. It blocks ads and renders as Chrome would, so it works well enough for me.

    I disable the crypto nonsense and pretty much only use it for debugging work stuff. Sometimes that means I need a JSON formatter or something, and those sites are riddled with ads w/o an ad-blocker.

    ruse8145 ,

    oh, hrm. Im not sure what specific build you’re using, but the one I’m using has mechanisms for installing normal adblockers like ublockorigin. note: afaik, this doesn’t solve the problem indicated in this thread – I’m operating on the basis that the blocking functionality will be nerfed. However for me, I use it purely for (stuff that doesnt work in firefox) and my jellyfin server (since firefox is kinda particular about hevc videos…you can kinda get them to work in windows, but in many cases I dont fully understand jellyfin still tries to transcode to 264).

    worth stating that “because someone distasteful is using it” is a reasonable misunderstanding due to me assuming some knowledge. Brave was created because firefox kicked a homophobe out and he wanted to make a browser. Said person is also clearly a cryptonut, which makes him a yet more negative person in my book. Now, unrelated to that base, you have a lot of people out there who are promoting it by my personal experience in more privacy centric groups is that these promoters are often quite…unsavory. Is that enough to stop using software? not necessarily. Is it enough when there are far better options out there? to me, absolutely.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    At home, it’s whatever ships with my Linux distribution. I use it mostly for web dev testing (I dev on Firefox, test on chromium) for personal projects, and for my kids to play certain games (Firefox works most of the time for that).

    Brave was created because firefox kicked a homophobe out and he wanted to make a browser.

    Sort of, but I don’t think that’s really telling the whole story.

    Brendan Eich was the CEO of Mozilla for many years and was the initial creator of JavaScript. He was ousted because he made a private donation to block gay marriage legalization in California. There is no evidence that he was or is a homophobe, just that he didn’t believe that gay marriage was something that state should legally recognize. By all counts, he was pleasant to work with regardless of sexual orientation, the issue was that someone found out about his donation. He didn’t harm anyone and wasn’t unfair, he just made a private donation.

    I think he was a great CEO, and Mozilla needs a technical CEO imo (in fact, everything started going downhill around when he left). I disagree with him politically, but if I avoided every product where I disagreed with the executive team politically, I’d have to avoid pretty much every product (and quit my job).

    So I need a better reason to avoid Brave. I’m not sure what the plan is for their cryptocurrency, and I honestly see it as more of a gimmick than anything. It’s easy to disable, so whatever, it existing doesn’t impact me.

    I also don’t actively recommend it to anyone, I always recommend Firefox or a Firefox derivative. The only time I recommend it is if someone needs a Chromium-based browser and wants ad-blocking, and Brave works well for that. If they just need Chromium and don’t need ad blocking, I recommend Chromium.

    If you have a better alternative, I’m interested. I literally just need a Chromium-based browser that works on macOS (what I use for work) with proper ad blocking. I don’t need to sync anything, it’ll only ever exist on that one device. I also need something for Linux, and open source is more important than ad blocking there.

    I’m also interested in Brave Search since it uses its own index. I currently use DDG, but search results are kinda crappy so I’m looking for alternatives.

    fne8w2ah ,

    I’ve long ago stopped using Chrome on my computer because it was getting too bloated.

    n3m37h ,

    Laughs in Firefox

    graymess ,

    How long until the majority of the Internet is inaccessible to non-Chromium browsers because the pages “don’t support them”?

    balder1991 ,

    Then I guess people will use the web less and less.

    RememberTheApollo_ ,

    I don’t think that’s going to be the case. People will find workarounds. The whole point of these alternative browsers is to use the web in whatever way the developers think their user base wants to use it. If the web is inaccessible to non-chromium browsers then people will spoof their browser to the site to look like a chromium browser.

    bc93 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    RememberTheApollo_ ,

    If we get to the point where the corporatocracy can force us into a limited set of compliant browsers then the web as we know it has ended. I don’t think they’ll go that far unless they decide to go whole hog. That level of control will likely look to wipe out any useful plugins like ad-blockers or other privacy features. I didn’t want to go down the slippery slope argument, but that’s pretty much what will happen if they go that direction.

    iopq ,

    But most of those only give you a few bits of data. Like if there’s only one technique that succeeded, you might have the same fingerprint as everyone with your exact phone with the rest randomized

    n3m37h ,

    If it don’t work on Firefox I won’t use it. There are better FOSS options anyways

    BlueMagma ,

    Sure as long as it’s not my bank or my employer or the gov official website for accessing my taxes…

    bc93 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Kiernian ,

    “WebUSB is a JavaScript application programming interface specification for securely providing access to USB devices from web applications”

    Holy Hannah, NO!!!

    Might as well allow a website to direct write to your hard drive unprompted again.

    Does noone see how BAD this stuff is?

    Stop creating attack vectors with glowing neon signs on them.

    Goodtoknow ,
    @Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca avatar

    Except it’s a very good thing for 2FA USB keys which prevent people from gaining access unless they have physical access to the key. Also useful for USB gamepads etc

    iopq ,

    I would close my bank account and such to a different bank. It takes literally 5 minutes to open one online.

    And yes, I would not work for a company that doesn’t support Firefox

    I would also keep pestering support of the government website, that one I will have to give to you

    InternetUser2012 ,

    They do some now, but user agent switcher gets me to all of those with no problem.

    nomadjoanne ,

    It is not that simple. These are cat and mouse games. Whack a mole. Whatever you’d like to say.

    InternetUser2012 ,

    If I can’t access a site with firefox, i won’t deal with online. I’ll call them and waste an employee’s time, or send payment in the mail. I’m not using chrome or an app and i don’t care.

    nomadjoanne ,

    For this reason, we must still take a stand against this stuff.

    webghost0101 , (edited )

    Honestly the way the internet is going do you need access to the majority of the internet? I feel like its pretty dead as it is now already.

    Lemmy will still work because we mostly use Firefox, and i bet the same will hold true for many others.

    Basically the moment mainstream internet becomes google only you will see nerds build new websites specifiably to cater to the non google crowd and i trust random internet nerds a hack of a lot more than a monopoly corporation.

    BRING IT ON GOOGLE!, YOU CAN INITIATE THE PUSH TO CREATE A NEW BETTER INTERNET. ^Create demand for freedom trough your suppressive enforments^

    prole ,

    Oh yeah nothing bad could ever happen from effectively removing an entire section of the population from certain parts of the Internet completely.

    I can’t imagine that ever going badly.

    freebee ,

    That’s already the case. Facebook etc have been walled gardens (or prisons if you prefer) for decade and a half now.

    CancerMancer ,

    I remember the “works best on IE” warnings of old, looks like we might be heading back there.

    sunbeam60 ,

    This is getting more common. Whatever dev accepted that when sizing the story should hang their head in shame. “No, you don’t size for a poor solution, you size for a good solution and let the PMs chip at the things they understand, keeping some things sacrosanct”.

    BrownianMotion ,
    @BrownianMotion@lemmy.world avatar

    Laughs in Waterfox

    Emerald ,

    Laughs in earthfox

    pycorax ,

    Laughs in airfox

    Gestrid ,

    Laughs in avatarfox

    patak ,
    @patak@lemmy.world avatar

    Laughs in electrofox

    veloxization ,
    @veloxization@yiffit.net avatar

    Laughs in long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony fox

    ICastFist ,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Laughs in Captain Planetfox

    Wait, wrong 5 elements

    enleeten ,

    With your powers combined, I am Internet Explorer 7!

    Emerald ,

    laughs in icefox

    KonalaKoala ,
    @KonalaKoala@lemmy.world avatar

    I think LibreWolf is going to end up being the go-to browser at this rate.

    glitchdx ,

    I used firefox back in the day because it was better than IE, switched to chrome because of the convenience and features. I recently switched to brave because chrome became such a pain. If brave shits the bed because of this, I’m going back to firefox.

    stormeuh ,

    Friendly FYI: Brave is based on Chromium, so under the hood it uses the same browser engine as Chrome. I can’t recommend switching to Firefox enough, not only because it’s a good and fully featured browser, but also because its existence is vital to keeping Google’s power in check.

    zewm ,
    @zewm@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t forget that brave is also just a crypto scam hiding as a browser.

    rukaslan ,

    I am using firefox over six month i guess. Added firefoxcss and some important extensions. Its just invincible. In my experience, its better than edge and vivaldi. I stopped using chrome many years ago. I switched to edge, then vivaldi, then again edge. Now, firefox forever. But, I have a question. I understand that, it will stop extension. But those chromium based browsers, which have built in adblocker, will they also get affected? Edge, brave, vivaldi etc, all of them are chromium based. It would be sad to see them suffer. They all fight against the mighty emperor like chrome. Hope they are going to find alternative way. However, firefox should make it customization more easier for normal user. They can offer extension like sidebery, ublock origin, gesturefy, dark mode, auto discard tabs at the beginning of their installation. Also, some different looks as theme from Firefoxcss. Normal users don’t dig much. Many people still don’t know that ads can be block by extension. A easier setup would boost users.

    mechoman444 ,

    I can’t remember a time when I didn’t use Firefox. Actually back in highschool I used IE around 2002ish but only because I didn’t know any better back then.

    hydrospanner ,

    I went from IE to Firefox back in that same timeframe, then by the time Chrome came out, my Firefox just had too much clutter and Chrome was way faster.

    Within the past year, Chrome managed to enshittify itself enough that I’ve gone back to Firefox on PC (still using chrome on mobile) and it’s the same sort of “lighter, faster” feel that I got years ago when I left it for Chrome.

    There’s also the whole ad blocker bullshit too, of course. YouTube ads were the last straw for me.

    thermal_shock ,

    if you use Firefox on mobile, you can add plugins like ublock origin.

    wesley ,

    I can’t use the Internet on Mobile without an adblocker. The user experience is totally unbearable

    thermal_shock ,

    fully agree

    dan ,
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    Honestly, IE was the best browser around the time IE6 was released (2000/2001). Way better than Netscape. Opera was the other good browser back then. The initial release of Firefox wasn’t quite there yet.

    rottingleaf ,

    Better for MS non-standard things? Or better how? Performance-wise - yes.

    IMHO a web browser has to support HTML 4.* , JS, Netscape plugins (Java, Flash, whatever else) and that’s it.

    That’s what I came to when I started using the Web, but I’m confident it’s not just bias - that was the best combination. I’m not sure on CSS - I hated it, but people have good arguments in favor of it. But hypertext with limited appearance tuning and scripts for the web itself, plus plugins for various content, including applications, - that’s definitely a better idea than the modern approach.

    dan ,
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    Better for MS non-standard things? Or better how?

    All browsers had non-standard things back then, to the point where many sites had two versions: An IE version and a Netscape version.

    Believe it or not, back then Internet Explorer was the most standards-compliant browser. It was the first browser to implement the DOM and CSS based on relevant W3C specs (Netscape was backing JSSS instead).

    Many features we take for granted these days came from IE. Drag and drop, the JS events system, iframes, rich text editing, clipboard access, AJAX (dynamically loading content on the page without a full page reload), visual effects like transparency and gradients, all originally came from Internet Explorer.

    The CSS box-model in IE6 (including margin, padding and border in the width of elements) was wrong because the CSS spec hadn’t been finalized by the time of its release so Microsoft used a draft, and it changed from publication of the draft to publication of the final version. Many years later, people realised that IE6’s model was actually the better model, which is why every browser supports it now via box-sizing: border-box.

    rottingleaf ,

    Sigh. OK, since I didn’t use Netscape (started around 2002), didn’t know about some of these.

    AsimovsRobot ,

    At some point 15-20 years ago Firefox was becoming a resource hog and I switched to chrome. I switched back a number of years ago and regret not switching back earlier.

    cujo255 ,

    Are you me? Firefox was always an option, but it definitely became slow maybe around 2010? I switched to chrome but came back to Firefox a few years ago also when chroms was first getting enshitified

    ICastFist ,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Back when Chrome was the shiny new thing, Firefox was taking a downturn, I think it was around version 50 or something, as they wanted to update something that would break compatibility with a considerable number of existing themes and plugins, including my then favorite, NoScript.

    For some reason, the UI of Chrome was never my cup of tea, all those round edges and auto-hiding buttons (maybe these were later additions?) annoyed me to no end.

    AsimovsRobot ,

    Yeah, all my bad experiences with Firefox from back in the day were completely gone when I switched back to it a couple of years ago.

    burretploof ,
    @burretploof@lemmy.world avatar

    For a time in the early 2000s I used IE via AvantBrowser. It had some cool features at the time! 😅

    AnUnusualRelic ,
    @AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

    I admit I didn’t always use Firefox. I used netscape navigator.

    UpperBroccoli ,

    I am still using Mosaic because it supports Gopher.

    chiliedogg ,

    When Chrome launched Firefox was in pretty rough shape, and Google wasn’t what they are today.

    Lots of us switched to Chrome then because it simply ran better.

    sip ,

    there was a point between 3x and quantum (47 or 48 I think) that the performance was pretty poor and I briefly switched to chrome. when quantum got released, I switched back instantly

    iopq ,

    When Firefox was just starting to get good I still used Opera with their presto engine

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