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NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

We’re doing everything we can, you know, other than not dropping bombs directly on refugees

Rapidcreek ,

Jabalya was established in 1948. It’s not a refugee camp and hasn’t been in 50 years. Don’t buy into their narrative.

blaine ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Rapidcreek ,

    Fine but calling it a refugee camp gives westerners visions of tents. It is not that.

    Flyswat ,

    Oh, not tents? Go ahead you can bomb then!

    blaine ,

    The IDF spokesman in the clip confirmed they were aware of refugee women and children in the location before deciding to go ahead with the bombing.

    ArbitraryValue ,

    Article 28 of the Geneva Convention:

    The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

    funkpandemic ,

    Lmao thanks for the laugh, I’ve never seen someone cite the Geneva convention to justify bombing women and children 🤡

    Edit: let me reiterate, lmaoooooooo

    DoomBot5 ,

    Yet here we are with everyone calling it a war crime, then when they are shown it’s in fact not, they just plug their ears and go on with their narrative.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    narratives dont work when you’re exposed to factual information - but if you willingly disbelieve and remain intentionally ignorant then all the factual information in the world wont change your belief. aka this thread and others like it for the last few weeks.

    DoomBot5 ,

    narratives dont work when you’re exposed to factual information - but if you willingly disbelieve and remain intentionally ignorant then all the factual information in the world wont change your belief.

    Agreed, the amount of people throwing words around like “genocide” and “carpet bombing” have long detached from reality.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    yep. the ideological warfare is largely electronic these days, fought in forums and threads. a battle waged by paragraph. where. every. word. matters.

    DoomBot5 ,

    And yet words are becoming meaningless because of how they’re abused to push a narrative.

    Maeve ,

    And immediately turned around and said, “No Wolf, that’s not what you’re hearing.”

    dx1 ,

    I think that’s called “gaslighting”. Or “doublespeak”. One of those.

    LordGimp ,

    I found the zionist shill. Can I have a prize?

    Rapidcreek ,

    Zionist? Closest I’ve come to being Jewish was a girl friend I had in high school. Been to Israel on business, but been a lot of places. What’s your problem?

    queue , (edited )
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Zionism isn’t being Jewish, it’s being pro-Israel and its intentions of establishing a unified control of the area. Joe Biden and Donald Trump are Zionists, neither are Jewish in faith or ethnicity. Bernie Sanders is Jewish, but against Israel’s expansion of the borders and acts it does.

    It’s like how you can be against Israel and not be Antisemetic, or be Antisemetic and be pro-Israel for reasons from “I want them exported to there” to “They will allow the Kingdom of God to come to Earth”.

    I am against Israel’s apartheid state, and I am against it’s ethnic cleaning of the area. Just as I am for any nation who aims to do that, like Turkey and Russia. But I don’t explicitly hate Turkish or Russian or Israeli citizens blindly because their government that they don’t have direct control over does horrible acts.

    Zionism ≠ Jewish

    Jewish ≠ Zionism

    Rapidcreek ,

    Actually Zionism originated in the early 1900’s and had to do with establishing a homeland for Jewish people.

    I dislike Israel’s heavy handed approach, but I understand it. I dislike Bibi, because he never really stopped being a New Jersey bar bouncer (yeah he was, look it up). I also understood exactly the outcome of the Hamas attacks, and can understand the resulting war. I can also understand that civilians will be killed in this war as long as they are around Hamas.

    medgremlin ,

    How are they supposed to not be around Hamas? They aren’t allowed to leave Gaza (whether it’s the IDF or Hamas preventing their departure doesn’t matter that much here). Even if they were allowed to leave Gaza, what money would they use to do it? Where would they go? How will they rebuild their lives away from the family and social network that they already have established with limited mobility, immigration options, or money?

    Rapidcreek ,

    I simply made a statement. Israelis aren’t going to not engage Hamas because they surround themselves with civilians. Its up to them to move.

    medgremlin ,

    The Israeli government could fix the problem by putting an end to the settler attacks in the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza in pursuit of a true two-state solution. The easiest way to isolate Hamas would be to fully and properly recognize and protect the rights of Palestinian civilians in a way that would offer them a better life away from Hamas influence. All they’re doing right now is a massive recruiting campaign for Hamas.

    Rapidcreek ,

    That would not eliminate Hamas. Since the butchery early this month, that is the only goal. After that, maybe some ideas can be examined

    DoomBot5 ,

    If you think that will actually make a difference, boy do I have a bridge to sell you.

    DoomBot5 ,

    Even if they were allowed to leave Gaza, what money would they use to do it? Where would they go? How will they rebuild their lives away from the family and social network that they already have established with limited mobility, immigration options, or money?

    Maybe using international aid that isn’t being stolen by Hamas and used to make rockets.

    LordGimp ,

    My problem is preprogrammed regurgitators of nonsense like you that equate zionism with Judaism. These things are not the same.

    Rapidcreek ,

    Nonetheless , what I stated is still true. It’s awful easy for the ignorant to assign labels they don’t truly understand.

    Spyd3r ,
    @Spyd3r@lemmy.world avatar

    Their problem is the facts don’t fit their narrative and its making them mentally unstable.

    iHUNTcriminals , (edited )

    I’m just scrolling. Not really doing anything.

    And nothing’s ever going to change if we don’t do anything.

    So think about the question; “well what can I do?”

    We can’t do shit because we are owned and overpowered by nation-gangs. We are helpless, because the most conniving people at the perfect time in the past made it that way.

    When war is happening we should all feel guilty.

    LordGimp ,

    Boycott Israel

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    not going to happen. look at their export list - we need all of that stuff except for the diamonds

    SlikPikker ,

    Boycutt Israel

    Spread some pro Palestinian narratives

    Call your reps

    It’s not much, but it can help

    slinkyninja ,

    Cut off the funding. Do not support trade that benefits some while hurting others.

    tocopherol ,
    @tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    We might be helpless to stop it this second, but there are actions we can take to slow the support for this down and stop it in the future hopefully. Even little things can help, we are owned and overpowered by nation-gangs but they are always outnumbered by their pawns.

    loki_d20 ,

    Just to note, they’ve bombed people in cars fleeing Gaza as directed by them as well. There really is no safe way to be in or attempt to leave.

    merthyr1831 ,

    This is why Palestinians are staying at home despite the threats.

    They know that if they leave they’ll be bombed.

    They know that if they stay they’ll be bombed.

    They know that if they leave and survive they’ll be permanent refugees to a world that despises them.

    They know that if they leave and survive and are allowed to return, they’ll be clearing rubble for the rest of their lives (until Israel bombs them again)

    No matter what, they’re doomed to be a tool for propaganda or a corpse. I’d rather be a corpse in my own home in a final act of defiance than a statistic of a settler colonial cleansing project.

    Dontcare ,

    Pals have had millions of chances at peace, they have said they will fight to the death against the existence of Israel. They are getting what they wanted

    merthyr1831 ,

    Not even in death will your soul know peace.

    Dontcare ,

    No, they’ve had days to leave and many of them did. Not sure why Egypt doesn’t open the rafah crossing

    MedicPigBabySaver ,

    Fuck Israel

    kleenbhole ,

    fuck Islam and Islamic terrorists more.

    MedicPigBabySaver ,

    Sure

    ur_dad ,

    How about, fuck all religious extremism.

    kleenbhole ,

    Sure. But Islam is at the top of that list for obvious reasons.

    ur_dad ,

    Which are…

    AphoticDev ,
    @AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Different sky fairy than his.

    kleenbhole ,

    Not at all. Isis and the Taliban are objectively and demonstrably more of a practical danger, and more disgusting and repressive in their worldview, than any extremists coming out of any other religion. The Buddhists ain’t crashing planes into towers, the Sikhs don’t have suicide bombers, the scientologists aren’t keeping women from getting an education.

    AphoticDev ,
    @AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Idk about suicide bombers, but I do know that the deadliest act of aviation terrorism up till 9/11 was at the hands of Canadian Sihk terrorists on behalf of the Sihk militant group Babbar Khalsa. Not to mention, there have been instances of violence from Buddhist nationalists in Sri Lanka against Muslim minorities. There are also many, many, many, many instances of Christian terrorism, and not just in the United States. The Lords Resistance Army has been terrorizing Africa since the 1980s.

    There are currently no religions that do not have extremists that employ violence. Religion itself is violence, as it is a means of control and dominance. There are no good religions, and no peaceful ones.

    kleenbhole ,

    I think if you look at numbers overall you’ll see that Islam is by far the worst. I definitely don’t agree with the phrase that religion itself is violence because that just waters down the meaning of violence. But if it was the case that religion is violence because of control and dominance, then Islam would still be inherently worse than others.

    Throwaway ,

    Islam isn’t the worst, islamic religious extremism is. Just by coincidence, Islam is also the largest religion so the fact that there are a lot of extremists seem to be disconnected from the religion and has more to do with just sheer size…

    kleenbhole ,

    Doesn’t matter why it is, it is.

    Throwaway ,

    There are extremists in every religion, so we should just ban all religions. Actually, there are extremists in every group, so let’s just stop doing stuff, y’know?0

    kleenbhole , (edited )

    … yeah? Sounds good

    Zannsolo ,

    They are only the most prolific right now we killed and fucked over a whole bunch of natives spreading Christianity in the Americas.

    kleenbhole ,

    Who’s we, white man?

    Rentlar ,

    It’s just sad, absolutely sad that Israel is using these excuses to use weapons of war against thousands of impoverished, innocent civilians, the large majority having nothing to do with the tragedy that occurred in early October.

    The U.S. needs to take away the toys it gave to Israel.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    maybe. I’ve heard they’re running low on iron dome missiles

    remer ,

    But they’re replacing the iron dome with the iron beam which is lasers so it’s like infinite ammo as long as they’re electricity. Problem solved, right!?

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    an escalation of asymmetric warfare? sure, why not? the issue is more of a technical one, you have to hold the laser beam on the moving target for long enough for it to heat up the missile casing enough that it goes kerplodey - but hey, if you’ve got that covered then why stop there? I wouldnt mind having a beam rifle, would make sniping a dream…

    Dontcare ,

    Why doesn’t Egypt let in the gazans ?

    S_204 ,

    I’m an ardent supporter of Israel and their right to defend themselves in these extreme times. This isn’t that.

    This is not okay. Targeting the tunnels is understandable. Targeting their leadership is understandable. Targeting a refugee camp is not acceptable, it’s the sort of thing Hamas would do and I can’t believe they’ve gone that far.

    flambonkscious ,

    I concur. Frankly, they’re both a bunch of terrorists.

    Tragically, one side had been receiving all kinds of war support for generations now and it’s incredibly imbalanced.

    I just don’t understand how genocide can be a goal…

    HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
    @HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

    “never again” really meant “not us”

    SwampYankee ,

    Taking an anti-genocide slogan used by Jews across the world and deriding it as hypocritical because one specific country of Jews is full of right wing shit bags… That’s uh… that’s something, anyway.

    archomrade ,

    Tragically, one side had been receiving all kinds of war support for generations now and it’s incredibly imbalanced.

    This is why people are saying Israel and the US created this crisis, because we’ve spent generations militarizing an apartheid state that subjugates and abuses Palestinians. Israel wanted to strengthen Hamas as a way to undermine the strength of a Palestinian state in Gaza:

    those who want to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state should support the strengthening of Hamas and the transfer of money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy - to differentiate between the Palestinians in Gaza and the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria.

    Israel and the Western Allies have intentionally fed the flames of this conflict in order to consolidate power in the middle east.

    flambonkscious ,

    I completely agree.

    Auli ,

    See that’s what I don’t get Israel created Hamas but nobody seems to acknowledge that. Decades of mistreatment bombings of course they’re going to eventually fight back.

    archomrade ,

    This is only confusing if you (like most) assume western media is truly independent and impartial.

    SilentStorms ,

    If this is the part that shocks you, you haven’t been paying attention.

    mycatiskai ,

    If you want to target the Hamas leaders then send in special forces to take them out in Qatar and other countries they hide out in. Send in precision teams to take the tunnels out without destroying towns above.

    Don’t kill 30,000 civilians for a handful of actual fighters.

    alienzx ,

    But then how will they solve the Palestinian problem?

    mycatiskai ,

    I’m sure Israel knows the Final Solution to the Palestinian problem.

    A few weeks ago I didn’t think I would have made so many genocide references.

    masquenox ,

    A few weeks ago I didn’t think I would have made so many genocide references.

    A few years ago you would have been immediately banned for making such references. The west has been covering for Israel’s crimes for seventy plus years now.

    SCB ,

    Should still be banned. Not enough people reporting.

    masquenox ,

    Cry me some more hasbara tears.

    masquenox ,

    Don’t kill 30,000 civilians for a handful of actual fighters.

    But then who will kill the 30,000 civilians?

    Besides… the only thing these “special forces” are really good for is murdering civilians - it’s mostly the reason states keep them around.

    DoomBot5 ,

    What if it was a town named after a refuge camp?

    TinyPizza ,
    @TinyPizza@kbin.social avatar

    dude, yikes.

    Dontcare ,

    He’s right, it’s not like they are living in tents

    Illuminostro ,

    What’s the problem? It’s not like they’re “people.” /s

    Throbbing_Banjo ,

    I’m an ardent supporter of Israel and their right to defend themselves in these extreme times. This isn’t that.>

    Honest question: after this, will you still continue to be? Because they’re not done.

    S_204 ,

    I’m a supporter of Israel, not its government.

    Sadly, they’re not going to stop until Hamas does or they’re destroyed. Just today I was watching an interview where Hamas’ second in command was saying they’re going to continue to do 10/7 type attacks until Israel doesn’t exist anymore. If you expect Israel’s current government to sit back and let that happen, you’re seriously mistaken. No country on earth would allow a neighbor to fire rockets randomly at civilians and call for their people to continue to murder Jews.

    Hamas has made clear they are an existential threat to Israel and sadly, the Israeli government is taking the approach of meeting Hamas on their terms of engagement. It’s getting harder to blame them but I do hope they would be better than the savages who are calling for the death of an entire ethnic group.

    masquenox ,

    I’m an ardent supporter of Israel

    If you support a white supremacist settler-colonialist state it means you support a white supremacist colonialist state.

    End of story.

    S_204 ,

    You can’t colonize your own homeland. Jews are indigenous to Judea. Simple as that.

    Israel is actually the greatest story of decolonization the world has ever seen.

    60% of Israel is non white, what white supremacy is in place there? Get your facts straight before you go spouting your Anti Semitic bullshit.

    masquenox ,

    You can’t colonize your own homeland.

    Riiight… and the white supremacists that ran Apartheid-South Africa and Rhodesia was just returning to claim their “homeland,” too, amirite?

    Jews are indigenous to Judea.

    There is no such thing as an “indigenous” Israeli, genius - Israelis are about as “indigenous” as their Crusader predecessors are.

    60% of Israel is non white

    Funny how colonized spaces have this kind of thing in common, eh?

    Get your facts straight before you go spouting your Anti Semitic bullshit.

    The term you’re looking for is antisemitic, not “Anti Semitic” - learn how to spell something before feigning expertise in it. Once you’ve absorbed that, we can discuss how Zionism has always been an inherently antisemitic ideology invented by Christian antisemites, okay?

    S_204 ,

    Nothing you’ve posted is backed by facts. Facts are Jews were there first. Facts are more than half of Israelis are Arab or non European, putting your Colonial argument in the trash

    Your opinions, are based in your Anti Semitic Jew hatred, not surprised that a wannabe grammar Nazi is also a full on Nazi.

    masquenox ,

    Save your fairy tales for your Nazi brethren, right-winger. There were Jewish people in Europe long before anyone there even called themselves Christian - so which part of Europe will you hand over to Jewish people to build an ethno-state with? I say… Switzerland should do very nicely, don’t you think?

    Jew hatred

    Spoken like a true antisemite.

    S_204 ,

    Of course there were Jews in Europe before Christians LoL, Christianity is just a cheap Chinese knock off of Judaism. That in no way invalidates the history of the Israelite people. Even the fucking Pharaoh’s talked about the Jews in Judea.

    There’s no need to hand Europe over, Israel is home and it’s staying that way. ;)

    masquenox ,

    Christianity is just a cheap Chinese knock off of Judaism

    Ooooh… please say that louder. Scream it from the rooftops. Maybe all the christofash will start thinking twice about supporting your precious little white supremacist kapo state - and if that happens, bye bye Israel.

    it’s staying that way.

    That’s what the Crusaders told themselves, too.

    merthyr1831 ,

    Keep lathering up that suncream, colonist.

    S_204 ,

    You mean returning hero who decolonized the region returning it to it’s rightful heritage? Israel is the greatest decolonization effort the world has ever seen.

    Auli ,

    Is it the kind of thing Hamas would do I do know it’s the kind of thing Israel does and this isn’t the first. It’s easy to say oh we killed civilians but we share targeting tunnels or something.

    SCB ,

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabalia_refugee_camp

    merthyr1831 ,

    They stopped defending themselves roughly 3 days before the Hamas attack. Not sure what level of genocide was comfortable to you?

    Those tunnels were always a propaganda tool of Israel too, by the way. They were built because of the total blockade of Gaza that made tunnels the only method for Palestinians to trade with Israel and the wider world (Remember Israel blockades Gaza’s access to the ocean too!). If these were purely military in their purpose, Israel would’ve cleared them all out a long time ago but the reality is that these tunnels were a benefit to the economy of both sides.

    Hamas using those tunnels to resist the Israeli occupation and cleansing of Palestinian communities is a side-effect, sure, but you’re clearly too receptive of the propaganda of Israel if you think tunnels are an excuse for indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure.

    S_204 ,

    Are you joking right now? Those tunnels, aka the Hamas highway are absolutely fair game in this war. Just like Ukraine destroyed infrastructure to hinder the Russians advancing, the routes of supply are a part of the theatre of war and always have been.

    As sad as it is, this bombing wasn’t indiscriminate. They had a large number of targets including high value ones located in the area. The area is sitting on top of a tunnel system known to be used to traffic materials used to attack Israel. I don’t agree with Israel bombing a refugee camp but I also don’t agree Hamas putting all of those people intentionally at risk like they intentionally did.

    As has been noted countless times, when Hamas stops using human shields, this madness will stop much faster.

    merthyr1831 ,

    Hamas hasn’t even been in control of half of palestine for decades and you know what happened there? MORE violence against the occupied palestinians. MORE displacement. MORE settlement and murder.

    The part Zionist apologists wont admit is that Hamas and their armed resistance is the only reason Gaza has survived as long as it has. Making colonists afraid of setting foot in Gaza is the only reason there’s any palestine left to fight over.

    If Israel disappeared tomorrow, the genocide stops. If Hamas disappeared tomorrow, the genocide continues.

    Those are the stakes. But don’t let me stop you cheering on the death of children behind the crocodile tears of “but hamas”.

    S_204 ,

    This is the sort of propaganda that I just have to laugh at. History proves you entirely wrong, and unfortunately because of the likes of you and your bigoted brethren, Israel isn’t going to have a choice but to wipe Hamas entirely off the map. You’re probably one of those people who claim Hamas doesn’t operate out of the West Bank. Hamas will take a lot of civilians with them, including the cancer patients in desperate need of the fuel Hamas is stockpiling but they’re gone. It’s only a matter of time now that Gaza city has been encircled.

    You love the blood shed. You love stoking the flames of hate. You’re getting what you wished for, I hope you enjoy it. No sane person would.

    merthyr1831 ,

    Lmfao you started this threat pretending the violence was too much. You’re almost gagging at the opportunity to hop on a merkava tank and crush what’s left of Gaza city into dust. How many dead kids will make you happy? because earlier you looked like you’d have said 0 but once you’re pushed even slightly you’re practically salivating for death as long as the fascists tell you one of the dead was a bad guy.

    S_204 ,

    You’re the blood thirsty one calling for the destruction of the state of Israel. That’s the rhetoric that’s going to sadly lead to many people dying.

    That’s on you and your Anti-semitic ilk. Your the people willing to spill the blood of the Palestinians in your hatred of Jews, and now the Jews are simply fed up and are meeting your kind on your level.

    You’re kind just isn’t good enough to come out alive here.

    When you stop, so will the violence.

    KepBen ,

    Where is the antisemitism in this conversation? I just don’t see it. Do you think opposition to Israel’s genocidal conduct is the same thing?

    S_204 ,

    Calling for a ceasefire…is literally calling for Jews to accept their slaughter. Hamas said just YESTERDAY, they intend on continuing to murder Jews until Israel has been destroyed.

    If you can’t see how that lopsided ‘accountability’ is deeply Anti Semitic, that’s your problem.

    Calling out the Israeli government for its actions is far different from from the country shouldn’t exist or that it should stop defending itself when the other party has made clear they will continue to murder if that happens. I’ve yet to see the Palestinian supporters calling for Hamas to stop sending rockets into Israel. 6000 by last count.

    KepBen ,

    Convenient for the radical right-wing government of Israel that the only possible thing they can do is exterminate everybody they don’t like.

    stella ,

    Correct, this is not defense.

    It is revenge.

    S_204 ,

    Sounds like they got 50 Hamas operatives among the 150.

    Hamas needs to stop hiding amongst the civilians. If they’re even civilians, I’m seeing far more cheering than protesting in the videos coming out of the strip.

    Dontcare ,

    Don’t you realize this is where they put the tunnels ? And this ‘refugee camp’ is a city

    masquenox ,

    Oh, man… do I have news for Wolf Blitzer - Israel loves bombing refugee camps almost as much as they love bombing hospitals.

    frequenttimetraveler ,
    @frequenttimetraveler@lemmy.world avatar

    Are we the baddies?

    Pixelologist ,
    @Pixelologist@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Were we ever not?

    frequenttimetraveler ,
    @frequenttimetraveler@lemmy.world avatar

    we are never the baddies!!1

    nutsack ,

    not me i stopped paying taxes

    EternalNicodemus ,
    @EternalNicodemus@lemmy.world avatar

    The IRS won’t get a penny from us >:[ (Spoiler: I am not an US citizen)

    nutsack ,

    I’m a liar i pay them all the time

    EternalNicodemus ,
    @EternalNicodemus@lemmy.world avatar

    Mega bruh

    stella ,

    Nah. Not anymore than the average Russian is a baddie in the Ukraine war.

    This is out of our control. The best we can do is show our support in various discussions and social circles.

    reverendsteveii ,

    “There could be infrastructure there, there could be tunnels there.”

    Translation:

    We killed them all just in case one of them was an asshole. What if we’re actually totally justified in bombing a refugee camp? We certainly don’t know for sure that we weren’t. Now that all of those innocent children are dead we’re checking under their corpses to see if there’s anything we can use to make ourselves seem like the good guy here.

    frequenttimetraveler ,
    @frequenttimetraveler@lemmy.world avatar

    That s such a cynical admission but also very stupid. In order to kill 1 terrorist, you just created 300. Very smart.

    By the same logic btw, a dozen nukes would be enough to ensure that no terrorists survive, until the cockroaches invent molotov cocktails

    reverendsteveii ,

    in order to kill one terrorist you just created 300

    If your goal is peaceful coexistence then this is a bad strategy, yes. If your goal is peaceful expansion and the annihilation of your neighbors then every terrorist you create also serves as an excuse for you to carpet bomb a neighborhood

    jeremyparker ,

    It’s not just about Palestinian terrorists. It’s about us.

    I’ve been on the “can people stop being assholes to Palestinians” team for many years - but this recent hamas attack was disgusting - they’ve always been disgusting but this was recent. I still supported Palestinians - but even I took a step back and was like, uhhhhh

    Israel’s response has been worse. As a result, we’re all back to fully supporting Palestine. For as long as Israel is seen as the victim, they’ll have the world’s support; but if they start killing hundreds of innocents to get one person - like, did they give this any thought at all?

    Gargantu8 ,

    So like, is the same position something like: I support Israel but condemn their atrocities while pursuing security and justice? I don’t understand how so many people have a strong opinion on this situation. My opinion is that I’m not educated enough to have one…

    MaxVoltage , (edited )
    @MaxVoltage@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    masquenox ,

    I support Israel

    If you support a white supremacist settler-colonialist state, it means you support a white supremacist settler-colonialist state.

    End of story.

    Gargantu8 ,

    So what is the most rational opinion?

    masquenox ,

    So what is the most rational opinion?

    I’d say… not supporting a white supremacist settler-colonialist state.

    Gargantu8 ,

    Fair enough. I hope Israel rejects their right wing government after this disaster.

    Kage520 ,

    It’s closely linked to the Christian culture. I think in Revelation or something Israel was the good guys during Armageddon, and the US wants to always be aligned with them for that reason. Whatever Israel does is “the good guys”. More nonsense from religion, yay.

    braxy29 ,

    the evangelical christians think this war means the second coming of jesus is imminent. so they are a little horrified but mostly all excited about it.

    edit - and in case anyone thinks i’m making this shit up, i’m surrounded by these people and have been my whole life. i talk to them and i see their media and social media. their eyes light up.

    SomeAmateur ,

    Not all christians share that mindset, but you are absolutely right. Some of them are just way too hyped for the apocalypse. I wonder if they think they’ll get the ez pass or if they’ll suffer with the rest of us until the big man shows up.

    ReluctantMuskrat ,

    Except it’s not even an educated Christian take. Israel rejected the Messiah and continue to. At no time does the Bible suggest the end-time Israel is acting according to God’s will. They are experiencing a period of discipline outside of his will, just as they did in the OT. The Bible does teach God will ultimately redeem them but not before great suffering on their part, and it never suggests the nation is in anyway pleasing him before that.

    Christians offering unqualified support to the Israeli government aren’t representing what their own faith teaches.

    Malfeasant ,

    Xtians getting their own religion wrong? Color me shocked.

    ipkpjersi ,

    CNN isn’t even pro-religion though, and they’ve been very pro-Israel this entire time.

    pomodoro_longbreak ,
    @pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Yeah idk it seems to be some kind of liberal purity test these days. Many liberals respect the power of tradition, and religious ideology, even if they don’t believe the text.

    frostysauce ,

    I’m shocked the Corporate News Network is pro-Israel. Shocked

    abuttandahalf ,

    No it’s not. Israel serves the us and the west’s geopolitical interests and that is why they support them. Whatever propagandistic justifications they put out for why people should support Israel are irrelevant.

    Rhynoplaz ,

    They all sound like assholes to me. I just support the innocent people who happen to live in the neighborhood, and oppose both military forces. That’s still an option.

    Gargantu8 ,

    I like this option. My only question is how do you logistically/as a foreign government do this? Like what should I hope my country does for this situation?

    Rhynoplaz ,

    When I become a foreign government, I’ll let you know.

    Gargantu8 ,

    Sounds great haha take care

    Oisteink ,

    What if the strong opinion is that you shall not murder?

    I’ve educated myself enough to be able to have a strong position on the killing of innocents.

    Doesn’t matter if they are Israeli, Palestinian, Somali, Japanese or even Swedish - innocent civilians have a right to live without being bombed.

    Does not matter who’s dropping the bombs or on who they are dropping them. It’s just never the right thing to do.

    themajesticdodo ,

    I don’t understand how so many people have a strong opinion on this situation. My opinion is that I’m not educated enough to have one…

    You think because you’re ignorant, everyone else must be too?

    Gargantu8 ,

    I wouldn’t say I’m ignorant, just admitting I don’t know enough to know how to feel. The pro Israel and pro Palestine people both make sense to me at times lol

    themajesticdodo ,

    Iol?

    People are dying you stupid shit.

    Gargantu8 ,

    Yeah not a fan of that. Don’t think the hostilities are necessary when I’m just trying to learn about the conflict…

    Dontcare ,

    These are dumb teenagers who are yelling slogans

    TinyPizza ,
    @TinyPizza@kbin.social avatar

    What is the actual point of you scrolling through day old posts calling people teenagers. Like sick burn dude, way to get out there and correct the record with racist/ageist bullshit.

    Etterra ,

    Israel’s excuse is pure political theater. This was a war crime. Regardless of who’s coming a war crime - Israel, Hamas, Russia, America, Isis, or anyone else, they should be held to account. But they won’t, which is just so fucked up. But much like politicians and cops, you can’t effectively punish the ones with all the power.

    Israel is punching down so hard it’s insane. If they really knew where the Hamas leader was, they could absolutely send in a team or assassin to take him out without the collateral damage. It’s not like they don’t have spec ops or all the money and military resources they could need to do the job. Hell, the pro-Ukraine saboteurs in Russia have been able to destroy military assets and assassinated at least one oligarch, all without hitting a crowd of civilians no matter how anti-Ukraine said civilians might be. Israel has no goddamn excuse. Neither does Hamas. They’re both at fault and the individual persons responsible should be punished.

    sirfapsalot ,

    The mossad is famous for tracking down Nazis who had been in hiding multiple continents away for decades, and they can’t find some dude literally next door.

    stolid_agnostic ,

    Worse, this is literal genocide.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    they could absolutely send in a team or assassin to take him out without the collateral damage.

    The Rules of Engagement, especially when it comes to civilians, should be adhered to by Israel.

    Israel should send their army in to go after Hamas, instead of trying to blow up Hamas by also blowing up the Palestinians via air bombardment.

    Political concerns probably keeps that from happening, as when the Israeli body bags of their fallen soldiers start coming back the Israeli public, who are already upset at the current government for allowing this to happen, would be at a fever pitch to remove the Israeli government, and what that would mean for certain individuals who are facing legal issues.

    Thief_of_Crows ,

    Why must you add qualifiers? Hamas committing war crimes in attempt to end the genocide being perpetrated on them is not remotely the same thing as Israel committing them in service of said genocide.

    Hamas’ excuse for hitting civilians with their rockets is that Israel has made it utterly impossible for them to produce high quality rockets, capable of being aimed. Israels tech superiority means the only way to attack them is via sheer quantity of rockets fired into Israel.

    jj4211 ,

    October 7th was not “oops, our weapons are just too imprecise to aim properly”. It was an up close and personal direct violent attack on civilians explicitly designed to avoid any police or military targets.

    So it’s absolutely appropriate to shame Israeli falling to apply precision attacks and Hamas for quite deliberately targeting noncombatants.

    Thief_of_Crows ,

    No, it wasn’t. Go do some actual research on what happened that day militarily before you continue making shit up at me.

    joel1974 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    masquenox ,

    Israel doesn’t care about the needle - it’s just a pretext to drench the haystack in Willie Pete.

    doctorcrimson ,

    Don’t worry, in about 23 more strikes they’ll then send in ground forces to sort the survivors. /sarcasm

    Maggoty ,

    You dropped some zeros there. They did several hundred airstrikes over the weekend alone.

    Rapidcreek ,

    You mean this?

    “A short while ago, IDF fighter jets, acting on ISA intelligence, killed Ibrahim Biari, the Commander of Hamas’ Central Jabaliya Battalion. Biari was one of the leaders responsible for sending “Nukbha” terrorist operatives to Israel to carry out the murderous terror attack on October 7th. Numerous Hamas terrorists were hit in the strike.

    Biari oversaw all military operations in the northern Gaza Strip since the IDF entered. He was also responsible for sending the terrorists who carried out the 2004 terrorist attack in the Ashdod Port in which 13 Israelis were murdered, and was responsible for directing rocket fire at Israel, and advancing numerous attacks against the IDF, over the last two decades.

    His elimination was carried out as part of a wide-scale strike on terrorists and terror infrastructure belonging to the Central Jabaliya Battalion, which had taken control over civilian buildings in Gaza City. The strike damaged Hamas’ command and control in the area, as well as its ability to direct military activity against IDF soldiers operating throughout the Gaza Strip. As a result of the strike, a large number of terrorists who were with Biari were killed. Underground terror infrastructure embedded beneath the buildings, used by the terrorists, also collapsed after the strike.

    The IDF reiterates its call to the residents of the area to move south for their safety.”an this?

    TinyPizza ,
    @TinyPizza@kbin.social avatar

    This is an article about how veteran news man Wolf Blitzer found such logic disgusting. You think swooping in and doubling down is helping disprove that?

    "My three kids are gone, my kids, no one is alive," one despondent man named Jabar could be heard saying as his friends tried to console him.
    Dr. Atef Al-Kahlot, director of the nearby Indonesian Hospital, said the total number of people wounded and killed is about 400.

    What a just and noble war the brave bombs of Israel wage. We can all learn a lot from this I think.

    Joncash2 ,

    I hate to tell you this, we won’t learn a god damn thing. Humanity forgets it’s atrocities as quickly as a generation passes. We do not learn the lessons of our fathers anymore. All we see are repeats after the old have passed on.

    SaltySalamander ,
    @SaltySalamander@kbin.social avatar

    We do not learn the lessons of our fathers anymore

    We never actually did. It's just a feel-good sentiment.

    blazera ,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    Biari oversaw all military operations in the northern Gaza Strip since the IDF entered

    so...defending his country?

    capital ,

    Oh are we pretending Hamas isn’t a terrorist org now?

    blazera ,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    Zionists are the terrorists, invading another country and committing genocide in the name of their ethnostate

    lmaydev ,

    They’re both terrorists tbf.

    SaltySalamander ,
    @SaltySalamander@kbin.social avatar

    100%

    There are no good guys in this except for the innocent civilians being murdered (by both sides)

    capital ,

    Sure.

    But Hamas too, right? I just want to see how far off the reservation you are.

    FoundTheVegan ,
    @FoundTheVegan@kbin.social avatar

    You people say the same thing over and over again.

    You play word games, ignoring the destruction Israel does to innocents from the safety of your semantics

    capital , (edited )

    Hahahaha you can’t even bring yourself to say it.

    And I wouldn’t ask Palestinians that question. Hamas has won elections there and does well in polls.

    I already know the answer.

    Cool literal propaganda tho.

    wetnoodle ,
    @wetnoodle@sopuli.xyz avatar

    The point is, Hamas is fucking abhorrent and shouldn’t be an organization that exists, but, every single fucking thing Israel and the west have done in regards to Palestinians fully encourages their support of Hamas. Imagine living in a concentration camp and being expected to have sympathy for the people holding you there. If you can say you would, you’re a lying piece of shit.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    the problem will be resolved in the correct and proper way within a few months. go get angry about something you have an actual chance of doing something about maybe?

    FoundTheVegan ,
    @FoundTheVegan@kbin.social avatar

    Same. Thing. Over. And over. And over. And over again.

    blazera ,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    Nah hamas is in response to zionist attacks on palestine

    capital ,

    Hey well I appreciate the honesty.

    TokenBoomer OP , (edited )

    Who decides which groups are terrorists? America says Hamas is terrorism. Erdogan says they’re liberation fighters. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. The African National Congress (while bombing and killing for their freedom) were designated terrorist. And then they weren’t terrorist. Now they are a political party.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    go back and look at what else Erdogan has had to say. go ahead, we’ll wait.

    capital ,

    The choice to reference Erdogan is an interesting one…

    TokenBoomer OP ,

    Should I have referenced Nelson Mandela?

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    wasnt he all about peace - resisting, but peacefully? Gandhi did something similar - of course, it ended badly for him.

    Erdogan is sort of an odd choice here.

    TokenBoomer OP , (edited )

    The U.S. Government Had Nelson Mandela on Terrorist Watch Lists Until 2008. Here’s Why.

    Countries that designate Hamas as Terrorists https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3fd7b1b9-e597-4cd8-b1ad-6f9ccf76de2f.png

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    skimmed the article. something about relations in the cold war or something. was the why buried down at the bottom? I didnt make it that far

    TokenBoomer OP ,

    The Department of Defense included the ANC in a 1988 report billed as profiles of “key regional terrorist groups” from around the world. Indeed, ANC actions during this period would include nighttime raids that destroyed fuel storage tanks and nearly two days of fires in 1980, a bombing at a bar in Durban that left three dead and more than 60 wounded, and a car bomb that killed 19 outside of the headquarters of the country’s Air Force in Pretoria in 1983.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    ah, makes sense then - he was the leader of the ANC and the ANC actions included acts of terrorism. I guess he mellowed in old age? time/reflection will do that to a person.

    TokenBoomer OP ,

    The world’s perception changed.

    TokenBoomer OP ,

    You missed the point, probably on purpose.

    Oisteink ,

    You can put as much makeup as you want on a pig, it’s still a pig. Force people to move, and bombing civilians? Donning a Jew star in the UN? The whole country of Israel is a disgrace

    pingveno ,

    Donning a Jew star in the UN?

    Sorry, this is bad how?

    Oisteink ,

    Do you have any idea what that star was used for? Tip: it was not to mark people who was murdering kids. It’s spitting on those poor souls that was forced to wear the yellow star. These guys represent a country that bomb civilians and has nothing to do with holocaust.

    If you can’t see the difference I’m sorry.

    pingveno ,

    It's the Star of David, used by Jews for millennia and the symbol on the flag of Israel. Of course I'm familiar with its use in the Holocaust.

    SirToxicAvenger ,

    the IDF got a top operative of the enemy forces. that’s all that matters.

    kool_newt ,

    What a sick fuck!

    little_hermit ,

    The U.S. has a talking zombie for a leader. Victims of injustice have long memories, and so do their families. The world is not on the side of Israel. The Holocaust trump card that diverts any criticism of Israel’s behavior as anti-Semitism is expired, null, and void. They are backed by the U.S. unequivocally, to commit genocide rather than push for ceasefire and dialogue. The U.S. president, a talking zombie, has made his country less safe.

    jimbo ,

    Victims of injustice have long memories, and so do their families.

    This applies equally to Israel, bud. That’s why this stupid, bloody conflict keeps on going.

    little_hermit ,

    You admit then that the disproportionate retaliation is motivated by vengeance. Ten times the body count, ten times the misery. I don’t condone either side’s actions.

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