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Panera now displaying warning about its caffeinated lemonade in all stores after lawsuit over customer's death

Sarah Katz, 21, had a heart condition and died hours after she drank Panera’s Charged Lemonade, a large cup of which contains more caffeine than Red Bull and Monster energy drinks combined.

All Panera Bread restaurants are now displaying “enhanced” disclosures about the restaurant chain’s highly caffeinated lemonade, a spokesperson said Saturday, following a lawsuit that was filed by the family of a young woman who died after drinking the beverage.

Monday’s lawsuit, which was first obtained by NBC News, alleges that Sarah Katz, an Ivy League student with a heart condition, died after she drank Panera’s Charged Lemonade last year.

A large Charged Lemonade contains 390 milligrams — nearly the 400-milligram daily maximum of caffeine that the Food and Drug Administration says healthy adults can safely consume.

blazera ,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

Why on earth would they have that much caffeine for a lemonade at Panera?

ThePantser ,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

Merica!

kautau ,

This is from their website

The NEW Panera Charged Lemonades are the ultimate energy drink guaranteed to charge up your day. Powered by Clean caffeine from guarana and green coffee extract, these caffeinated lemonades feature refreshing mango, cranberry, or strawberry mint flavors. These drinks are cold, caffeinated, and so ready for summer. Plant-based and Clean with as much caffeine as our Dark Roast coffee.

So sounds like they are advertising it as a coffee or energy drink alternative

Usul_00_ ,

Now. What about before?

burgersc12 ,

Apparently it is advertised like this… panera signage

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck, I’d stay away just for those awful-sounding flavors. Can’t lemonade just be lemon flavored?

reverendsteveii ,

/\ found the 90s standup comic

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I wasn’t trying to be funny.

kautau ,

“What’s the deal with caffeine drinks these days!?”

Seinfeld stand up theme plays

reverendsteveii , (edited )

I don’t like all these flavored coffees. Maple nut butter caramel fudge whatever. Can I just get a regular coffee?

Yes sir, right away. Here’s your tall black coffee

I mean, what’s the world coming to? I go into a coffee shop and I can’t even get a normal coffee for a normal guy

Absolutely, sir. Anyway, that’ll be $3.95 and if you want cream or sugar in your black, drip-brewed coffee there’s a stand over there

I’m just a regular guy who wants a regular coffee, but in this crazy, mixed-up world…

nilloc ,

Yup, and the next 2 bubbler things to the left are regular (though I’m sure insanely sugary) lemonade and iced tea. So if you didn’t read carefully you wouldn’t know you were dosing on significant amounts of caffeine with your lunch or dinner.

burgersc12 ,

It says “Charged” and specifically points out caffeine in 2 seperate spots on each sign. Imo if you don’t see that, it’s on you

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

We see so many ads every day that I tune out a lot of bullshit around marketing, I could easily see how a person grabbing a drink would only see the big ‘mango yuzu citrus’ and not think that was caffeinated. At first glance the label just looks like the calorie information, though it is true it should be the person’s responsibility to notice, but I could see a reasonable person making this mistake easily.

abraxas ,

I’m not sure what we need more than 9 distinct caffeine notifications in a 2x2 area, in a section where 99% of the drinks are caffeinated and have never been marked such, to suspect that maybe this is caffeinated, too.

There’s a fine line between “it’s Panera’s fault” and “It’s the girl’s fault” that reads “holy shit, what a tragedy!”

frokie ,

That was before. The enhanced signs are paper printed taped messages saying it’s not recommended for pregnant women, people sensitive to caffeine, and children.

burgersc12 ,

Right.

Supervisor194 ,
@Supervisor194@lemmy.world avatar

That’s fine and all but why so much? This stuff has 390mg caffeine, Red Bulls have 80mg. Such a weird thing for Panera of all places to do.

kautau ,

Looks like it has the same amount of caffeine as coffee. Guessing the large is 32 oz. That’s about on par with drinking 32oz of black coffee

abraxas ,

It’s about as much caffeine as a “typical coffee”, but it’s really about 2/3 as much caffeine as any real-world coffee. Dunkies, Starbucks, and Panera’s own light roast is 50% stronger per oz than this drink.

CaptPretentious ,

Per fluid ounce it’s actually not high. A 16 oz can of GFuel has 300mg.

trash80 ,

Venti (20 oz.) Starbucks coffee has 410 mg of caffeine.
stories.starbucks.com/uploads/…/nutrition-1.pdf
web.archive.org/web/…/nutrition-1.pdf

statues_lasers ,

You guys got 0.6L coffees, wow.

lingh0e ,

No body tell him about “liter a cola”.

garbagebagel ,

The cold ventis are 24oz

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

I used to drink five 24 oz. coffees a day, then one day I did the math and realized I was literally drinking a fucking gallon of coffee. Now I’m down to one cup (8 oz.) per day. I feel great and it’s nice to actually blink once in a while.

can ,

Red bull only has as much caffeine as two cans of coke?

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

Coffee drinkers drink several times more caffeine on average than energy drink drinkers. A large coffee from Panera has over 400mg caffeine.

abraxas ,

Because they won’t say “no” if somebody wants to buy a FucktonLarge size. Their regular is only 250mg.

Note, the number is conspicuously perfect that you could have one large every morning and still be within FDA recommendations. (400mg)

_number8_ ,

wait wait a lady fucking died and they’re getting away with simply enhanced signs??

ryathal ,

Putting up the sign now probably hurts them in a civil suit.

Grumpy ,

But it does alleviate them from a second suit.

DarthBueller , (edited )

Model (USA) Rule of Evidence 407: Subsequent remedial measures are not admissible as evidence to prove negligence, culpable conduct, a defect in a product or its design, or a need for a warning or instruction.

But the court may admit this evidence for another purpose, such as impeachment or — if disputed — proving ownership, control, or the feasibility of precautionary measures

EDIT: I’m not looking up the contextualing comments that accompany the rule, but I will share what I remember from law school many years ago: this rule exists for public safety. You don’t want to penalize fixing a dangerous situation, regardless of the facts of any specific case.

bbsm3678 ,

This comment is completely correct. This rule would apply here.

squiblet ,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

Maybe they’d like for people to not be harmed by their lemonade for the sake of not hurting people, more than money. That’s a lot to believe about a corporation though.

lightnsfw ,

Maybe they genuinely don’t want anyone else to die

Steve ,

Well the FDA says the caffeine content is safe for an adult.

Number1SummerJam ,
@Number1SummerJam@lemmy.world avatar

The FDA also says brominated vegetable oil is safe for human consumption

Steve ,

🤷‍♂️

ObviouslyNotBanana ,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

Looks to me like it is safe in smaller doses?

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Thank Gebus for California.

piecat ,

So, the FDA isn’t perfect, but they’re reversing their stance based on evidence.

www.fda.gov/food/…/brominated-vegetable-oil-bvo

BVO is added to a food for a specific purpose and is regulated by the FDA as a direct food additive. BVO is allowed for use in a small amount, not to exceed 15 parts per million, in the U.S. as a stabilizer for fruit flavoring used in beverages.

The FDA is working on a proposed rule to amend our regulations to remove the authorization of the use of BVO as a food ingredient. For more information, see the unified agenda.

Natanael ,

For an average healthy adult. That’s what the disclaimers are for, so that those who can’t tolerate it will know about it.

And yes, insufficient warnings should have pretty harsh penalties precisely for this reason

Steve ,

True. As for penalties, some pragmatism is needed lest you create another “everything causes cancer in California” joke.

A warning that’s applied to everything will be ignored by everyone.

lightnsfw ,

Other people posted pictures of the dispensers. It said right on the sign how much caffeine is in it.

jaybone ,

Well this is like, how you do not eat things you are allergic too.

Grandwolf319 ,

Why not just call it lemonade coffee or lemonade energy drink? Lemonade is not suppose to have caffeine.

someguy3 ,

“Charged” is definitely not enough.

arefx ,

Could be charged with anything, like fruit flavor, extra sugar, suggested max daily doses of caffeine for healthy individuals, ya know, anything.

Cannacheques ,

Boosted lol

variaatio ,

Whatever it is called with that kind of caffeine content you warning label it with listing of exactly how much caffeine it has. Well maybe unless it is named literally “coffee” and is plain brewed coffee and at that brewed coffee with the normal levels of caffeine coffee contains.

Ones frappe, whippazino also better have needed labels in cases, since given all they mix how the heck one is to know what exactly is the contents. Oh this is extra special “angry frappe” with double squared shot expresso, so exactly how much caffeine is that dear seller per one glass? I just thought you put chili in it or something to make it “angry”, but has literally multiple times more caffeine content.

This is why all the energy drinks atleast where I live have the ever present “contains high amount of caffeine x mg/100ml”.

You sell something like that as counter served item with no packaging label to read, well now your menu list must contains at minimum highlights. Something like “our special drunk (HC)” and then somewhere on the menu there reads “HC means high in caffeine”. Then obviously at the counter must be a full labeling booklet of “here is our every product from the plainest brewed coffee to our jumbo mega sandwich and special brew beverage with full nutritional information and ingredients”

Just like one can’t sell say a pastry in cafe with nut creme filling with out having a big marker on all the menus “contains nuts, nut allergies bevare”. Since similarly nut allergic consuming nuts can be life threatening, well for some people consuming caffeine isn’t healthy and must be disclosed.

Neve8028 ,

Whatever it is called with that kind of caffeine content you warning label it with listing of exactly how much caffeine it has.

They have always had signage directly on the dispenser with the caffeine content.

…greenmatters.com/…/panera-charged-lemonade-lawsu…

MickeySwitcherooney ,

Problem is I don’t think the average person knows caffeine dosage. It should really say “As much caffeine as four coffees” or “a fuckload of caffeine” not “400mg caffeine”.

Neve8028 ,

It’s the same amount of caffeine as coffee has. It literally says it on the sign.

LilB0kChoy ,

A regular cup of Cafe Blend Dark Roast Coffee at Panera, has 268 mg for a 20-oz cup.

Neve8028 ,

Ok so it actually has less caffeine then because the lemonade has 260mg/20 fl oz. Are you looking at the calorie count by mistake? Either way, a 8mg difference isn’t that significant because different coffees will have variations in caffeine content along the same lines.

abraxas ,

No he’s repeating the argument the family’s lawyer made. That a butt-fucking-massive megapint (sorry Depp) of this has more caffeine than a little cup of the lowest-caffeine-content hot coffee.

People are forgetting that she got a large, and if she knew it was caffeinated, they have no case and nobody should be bitching this “not nearly as strong as light-roast-coffee” beverage is on the mean streets with hard drugs like pop rocks and pez.

Default_Defect ,
@Default_Defect@midwest.social avatar

When you have health concerns like the girl did, these are things you really should be aware of on your own. Like I can’t have grapefruit juice because of the meds I take, but I don’t demand large signage on everything that might have some in it.

pokemaster787 ,

What it should say is “Contains 98% of the FDA’s daily recommended maximum caffeine dosage, do not drink other caffeinated beverages in the same day”

PurplePropagule ,

Sure, if you want to put that label on most coffees as well since the lemonade has the same caffeine per ml. Then you get to the point of having everything labeled so everyone will naturally ignore it.

abraxas ,

Correction, 2/3 the caffeine per ml of most coffees.

It’s downright reasonable for a regular-driver beverage if you don’t have a heart problem.

abraxas ,

“As much caffeine as four coffees”

They’d be sued in a heartbeat. It has less caffeine than a large iced coffee at the most popular chain in the US. It has as much caffeine as a medium ice coffee. Served in a cup the size of a large iced coffee. I’m sure they were very careful about being accused of the opposite of what happened.

broface ,
  1. It’s not coffee.
  2. “Energy” drinks don’t give you much energy.

I don’t think you should be picking the names for things.

Let me try: “Caffeinated lemonade”

Wow.

someguy3 ,

This is a product made by Panera Bread? Lol I would not expect the store brand lemonade to be jacked on caffeine.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Probably some executive’s nephew or something invented it. Absolutely a stupid idea.

jasondj ,

Nah caffeine is flavorless and addictive. You mix it in with water and a patented combination of flavors and corn syrup, and the customers just keep coming back for it.

Selling an exclusive and addictive product is a good way to gain repeat customers.

Hell serious caffeine addicts will see this headline and plan to head to Panera at some point this week to check it out. No different than when heroin gets cut with fentanyl. Maybe somebody dies, but more junkies just want to chase that high.

subignition ,
@subignition@kbin.social avatar

It's not entirely flavorless, it has a slightly bitter taste, but generally if you're at the point where you are noticing the taste you are either in severe trouble or you've done something like put a 100mg caffeine pill in plain water.

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

I take caffeine pills to regulate my dose (400mg / day, no more or less) and can’t take pills without chewing em. Pure caffeine tastes like giga-bitter dogshit. Nom nom.

subignition ,
@subignition@kbin.social avatar

I respect your grit, lol. I have 200mg caffeine pills but they don't play too nicely with my stomach, so I keep them as a backup. I usually mix soda water with Costco brand energy shots for a comparable amount of caffeine which doesn't cause issues for me for whatever reason.

someguy3 ,

I’ve always wondered why caffeine pills don’t do better if that’s the goal. I think it’s more about the drink, not caffeine.

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

It’s not flavorless, it’s bitter. You just can’t taste it over the pound of sugar.

lingh0e ,

That was my exact same thought. Like, I had no idea they had a caffeinated lemonade, let alone a lemonade that was a beverage version of an energy pill they sell behind the counter at the gas station.

KidsTryThisAtHome ,
@KidsTryThisAtHome@lemmy.world avatar

They call it charged lemonade and they advertised it as being all natural and healthy too. Despite having more caffeine than their coffee or monster/red bull

SheeEttin ,

It’s the same as their coffee. Same as the dark roast, anyway, and less caffeine per ounce than the light roast.

Case ,

I feel like every beverage containing caffeine should have its total content labeled.

Not because I’m sensitive or anything, I just need the biggest dose I can find in the morning.

Then again, I’ve been addicted to caffeine since child hood. I quit once, it was thought to be disturbing my sleep; NOPE! Just bipolar mania fucking it up.

If anyone is concerned, I’m on meds and doing well - I still might stab someone in the morning over getting in the way of caffeine though.

buzz86us ,

I really don’t get this lawsuit it is clearly labeled on the app, and the dispensers.

T00l_shed ,

It may be something to do without a proper reference. If it showed a large =3 cups of coffee you get a good idea, but stating a certain mg of caffeine doesn’t really mean much to most people.

PurplePropagule ,

It says “as much caffeine as our dark roast” on the dispenser. It’s a pretty solid reference imo. If you have the same quantity of lemonade or coffee, then you have the same caffeine intake.

T00l_shed ,

Saying as much caffeine as our dark roast would imply that the lemonade has the same amount as a cup, but it’s like 3 to 4 cups of coffee equivalent.

PurplePropagule ,

It has the same amount of caffeine if you get the 20fluid oz cup. A 20oz coffee at panera is 268mg while 20oz of lemonade is 260. I don’t think you have a point here.

T00l_shed ,

Yes I’ve looked it up, the serving size is this biggest culprit here. The large charged lemonade has around 400 MG of caffeine, for around 30 oz. 8 oz of coffee has around 80 to 100 MG of caffeine. Scale it up and it works out to about 4 cups of coffee.

PurplePropagule ,

I mean dunkin serves 396mg of caffeine in their large iced coffees. Just eyeballing it, their large iced beverages seem to be 30oz as well. I don’t think that the serving sizes are much of an issue when compared to other beverages with similar caffeine content at other restaurants and cafes.

thecarninja ,

I think this would make far more sense. Plus, I know that for me, the last thing I would think about lemonade is that it has caffeine content. Alchohol, maybe. Sugar? Sure. But caffeine? Nope. Having never heard of their Charged Lemonade before this, I think I’d probably be likely to make that mistake at least once.

abraxas ,

There’s a fairly massive sign right in front of it with caffeine content and advertising targeted at caffeine fans.

abraxas ,

It’s less caffeine than a large ice coffee at most establishments, straight-out. 400mg caffeine is downright reasonable. And the articles have been claiming her family’s side is that she thought it wasn’t caffeinated at all.

T00l_shed ,

Well I don’t know if I would say 400mg is reasonable, its the fda daily recommended limit. That’s around 4 8 oz cups of coffee, which is quite a bit of caffeine, certainly safe for most people of course.

abraxas ,

Well I don’t know if I would say 400mg is reasonable

It is absolutely 100% reasonable.

its the fda daily recommended limit.

It’s more of a loose recommendation than some FDA limits. They’re saying that it is 100% safe for most Americans to have 400mg every day of their lives. The comparative figure to 400mg of caffeine is 0mg of alcohol. 400mg of caffeine is health positive for almost all people, unlike pretty much every other ingredient in beverages at that counter.

That’s around 4 8 oz cups of coffee

For better or worse, nobody drinks 8oz coffees in the US. A small at a major coffee chain is 10oz. It’s a little less 1 Large Iced Coffee from Dunkin, possibly the single most popular drive-through beverage in the country.

Psythik ,

To be fair, Panera has always labeled the caffeine content of its drinks. Problem is that people don’t read the god damn label on the machine, forcing Panera to make it bigger and more obvious.

shottymcb ,

The staff nationwide were instructed to tell customers that it has “About as much caffeine as our dark roast” when asked about the caffeine content though.

Ender2k ,

...which is accurate.

Ataraxia ,

Because people are idiots. If they put the mg most people will have no fucking clue what it means and assume it’s a safe amount.

PurplePropagule ,

That is correct. If you compare the caffeine content per ml to most coffees, you’ll find that it’s essentially the same. Star bucks coffee, for example, has 410mg for their large cup which is actually more per ml than the lemonades have.

abraxas ,

It’s actually about 2/3 the caffeine of any of the most popular coffee blends in the US. It’s also only ~2/3 of the caffeine of Panera’s own Light Roast. That’s why they explicitly compare its caffeination to their dark roast.

abraxas ,

Ironically, this new warning is a lot smaller than the label, and less visible. It’s just CYA protections from a company it seems that for the first time in a long time, didn’t actually fuck up.

AstridWipenaugh ,

Their labeling clearly stated the amount of caffeine per 20 and 30 oz cups. Image: www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2023/…/amp/

Skullgrid ,
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

I had no opinion until I read this thread.

I’m a person that suffers from addiction to food, for lack of better phrasing. As in, I am currently going to therapy and a nutricionist and have won this battle a few times before.

I usually think sugar laws are BS, but taxes are a way of making things more “balanced without bans”.

850 ml of somethig should not have 14% of its weight come from sugar. That’s insane. No serving of something should contain 124 grams of sugar, except … sugar. You’re basically eating a quarter pounder made of sugar when you’re drinking this. Like, eating an eighth of a 1kg bag of sugar is basically the same thing as drinking this. Holy fuck.

I like coffee, caffeinated drinks, etc etc. I like science and technology and bizarre nutrition (protein powders, BCAAs, etc). I didn’t know what the “safe adult limit” of caffeine was, except that you’d have to drink several cups of coffee extremely quickly. There have been days , especially at uni where I’d drink 3 large energy drinks, and feel my heart react to it and think “yeah, that’s enough”.

The “warning” on the drink is completely contextless and ignoreable. “Oh ok, it’s got caffeine in it, 389mg, wild”. No wonder the woman just grabbed it and went on with her day and died.

Also, it’s a complete waste of advertising potential. If a drink advertises “ALMOST LETHAL AMOUNTS OF CAFFEINE!” you might want to drink it more for that reason, “Charged lemonade” makes it sounds like it’s got a hint of lime in it as well as lemons.

broface ,

Sounds like you were given too much stimulation as a child and now anything less makes you uncomfortable.

cheeseandrice ,

My kids went and filled their cups with this stuff before I noticed what it was and then had to be the bad guy, telling them to get the Minute Maid shite. Definitely lowered my opinion of Panera.

Zoboomafoo ,
@Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world avatar

Is the stuff just in the soda fountain?

Ender2k ,

No. Seperate dispensers completely.

And clearly marked as Charged Lemonade with the calorie and caffeine content for both the 20oz and 30oz cups on the dispenser since they were introduced.

paprika ,

Oh really?

dailydot.com/…/panera-charged-lemonade-behind-cou…

I don’t see a sign on the dispenser behind the counter.

Ender2k ,

Which they moved behind the counter d/t people complaining about the caffeine content.

tja ,
@tja@sh.itjust.works avatar

Okay, but most people do not have reference points on how much caffeine is normal and how much is okay.

And I also did not know that charged means it has caffeine, but that might be, because english is not my mother tongue.

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

And I also did not know that charged means it has caffeine, but that might be, because english is not my mother tongue.

Not due to your language skills at all; that’s just their choice of branding words. It may as well say “yummy”, “extreme”, or “wowie zowie”.

Source: I speak fluent American

broface ,

Nah. Charged makes more sense just like ‘hard’ lemonade contains alcohol.

Funny watching you people get up in arms about the wording here.

cheeseandrice ,

Separate dispensers like they said, but if you’re paying the meal and you tell the kids to go get their drinks and they want lemonade you have to watch out they don’t get the heart attack shit. Once you know you know, but I couldn’t believe that’s a thing that exists.

dill , (edited )
@dill@lemmy.one avatar

I’m shocked it took this long. The caffeine content in that shit is MIND BLOWING. When you buy a energy drink you know what you are signing up for. But a lemonade with 260 to 390mg of caffeine??? That’s pushing the limit of a healthy safe daily dose for an average adult

Nudding ,

Ain’t Nothin healthy about that lol

dill ,
@dill@lemmy.one avatar

Lol. Fixed now.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Why the fuck would lemonade of all things have caffeine anyway?

CaptPretentious ,

Because it’s called ‘Charged Lemonade’.

Charged, like the thing that you do to your phone to put energy into it.

Mike’s hard lemonade exists… Has alcohol in it.

broface ,

Because someone made it and people buy it?

Why shouldn’t lemonade have caffeine? Because you think it shouldn’t? Lol.

SheeEttin ,

That’s about the same as a large coffee, but nobody blinks an eye at that. www.cspinet.org/caffeine-chart

Natanael ,

Because then people know what they’re getting. That’s why. She wouldn’t have bought a large coffee like that

PurplePropagule ,

That’s why you use your eyes and read the sign that clearly states “as much caffeine as our dark roast”.

dill ,
@dill@lemmy.one avatar

Nah even that source shows most coffees are 100ish mg

Neve8028 ,

It absolutely does not. 100mg per what? They list different quantities of each drink on that source. If you look at it from a mg/fl-oz perspective, you’ll see that the lemonades are on par with coffee.

dill ,
@dill@lemmy.one avatar

Holy shit yeah actually. That’s a huge fucking coffee is it not? I mean 20 oz is huge.

…fda.gov/…/spilling-beans-how-much-caffeine-too-m…

8 oz to 10 oz is what I would expect a cup of coffee to be. FDA estimates 100ish for an 8 oz. I had no idea Starbucks served giant ass coffees like that lmfao

Neve8028 ,

20oz is pretty standard from what I’ve seen for large hot coffees. I believe that the dunkin large iced coffees are like 30oz(while hot is 20). Relatively standard sizes in the US tbh.

vxx ,

It’s more than a litre of red bull in one drink.

Cannacheques ,

Wild lemonade leaves woman very excited lol 😆

Colorcodedresistor ,

What is going to come from this is Panera settles, and then sticks the charged lemonade behind the counter and enhances warning labels.

What may indirectly come from this is Solid Numbers on Caffeine overdose. and what is a safe amount and what is playing with fire.

It’s a modern day created problem. energy drinks flood the market, other companies compete and boom, someone died. I’ve seen reports that she had some medical issues and caffeine was like her version of a bee sting or peanut allergy , but I’ve yet to corroborate that narrative.

AstridWipenaugh ,

Yes, prior reporting covered that she had a heart condition and she was extremely aware that too much caffeine would kill her. The lemonade was clearly labeled with its caffeine content. It didn’t say it was extreme, but it was clearly labeled with how much is in it. The story that “she didn’t know” doesn’t add up unless she was just being wildly negligent.

Article with image of the labeling: www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2023/…/amp/

As someone with a food allergy, I check everything I eat for my allergens. If I’m not sure what’s in it, I don’t eat it. And all that will happen to me is I’ll feel ill for a while. Anyone with a lethal condition damn well knows better.

broface ,

I’m sure a lot of people don’t know off the top of there head what is and is not a lot of caffeine.

SheeEttin ,

People with caffeine sensitivity probably do.

M137 ,

their*

You failing basic grammar should tell you that your opinion on this (and other things) is worth nothing.

broface ,

Lol, obvious troll.

Blocked.

abraxas ,

I’m sure a lot of people don’t know off the top of there head what is and is not a lot of caffeine.

“As much caffeine as our coffee” She was sucking down 30oz cups of it (still under the FDA safe limit) on multiple days, and her family’s claim is that she thought it wasn’t caffeinated at all.

The one possible claim is that in SOME stores the signage was missing for various reasons. That doesn’t seem to be the case with her store.

broface ,

Funny. We’ve actually been doing the same thing with salt and sugar for decades.

But overconsuming those doesn’t usually result in an immediate death. Just diabetes and stroke.

UndecidedYellow ,

I figured it had more caffeine than tea but less than coffee. Clearly very wrong. Glad I didn’t drink this stuff while I was pregnant.

TokenBoomer ,

Is this lawsuit gonna drive the price of sandwiches from $15 to $30? /s

RGB3x3 ,

They’ll just make their bread even more stale and give you even smaller sandwiches for the exorbitant price.

Null ,
@Null@pawb.social avatar

Now the sales for that drink is going to go up, due to human curiosity.

mr_sifl ,
@mr_sifl@lemmy.world avatar

I definitely want some caffeinated lemonade

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

There’s caffeinated lemonade and then there’s ‘10 mg away from the maximum daily recommendation of caffeine’ lemonade.

Th4tGuyII ,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

Supposedly you would need to knock back anywhere from 10-25 of those back to back (4-10g dose) for it to kill you... But people have died intaking significantly less caffeine.

Considering the average person won't know which end of that spectra they're on until they get there, it's not a risk I'd want to take.

subignition ,
@subignition@kbin.social avatar

4g is 10x the safe daily limit, you are putting yourself in danger well before that.

Th4tGuyII ,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

Yes - which is why I specifically said "for it to kill you"

You would experience a range of other symptoms, some quite severe, way before reaching your lethal dose - but those wouldn't kill you, at least not outright.

Problem is there is quite the high deviation in calculating what that lethal dose is for the average person, and given that people have died intaking significantly less (as I said), testing how many of those you could knock back is not something I'd do personally or recommend anyone else try.

SheeEttin ,

Apparently the woman who died had a caffeine sensitivity. She shouldn’t have been having any caffeine.

Th4tGuyII ,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

I suppose the question would be then was she ever aware it had caffeine in it at all?
I've never been to a Panera, so I don't know how they advertised that lemonade.

SheeEttin ,

fixturescloseup.com/…/energy-charged-lemonade-dis…

That page, from a few months ago, has pictures. The signs clearly list the caffeine content.

Sucks that she died, but it’s pretty clearly labeled, and if you have a sensitivity, you need to be checking these things if you aren’t familiar with them.

ZzyzxRoad ,

Sucks that she died, but

Speaking of having sensitivity, jfc.

Venti ,

Having the drink available in the soda fountain next to normal drinks is overall a bad idea both for kids and unknowingly customers (also ~400 calories for a lemonade is madness). The adjective “charged” doesn’t make me think “with caffeine”, it should be called caffeinated/energy lemonade in big font like redbull does, not with some abstract marketing adjective.

key ,

You can order a smaller size if you’re worried. The lemonade isn’t particularly highly caffeinated, it’s the cup size that is excessive. The lemonade is 13mg/oz, an average coffee is 12mg/oz which means a lot of coffees are higher, such as Starbucks coffee at 20mg/oz. Espresso is 50 and “energy shots” ten times that.

I definitely think labeling should be more explicit on presence of caffeine across the board (not just tiny text on a container). A limitation of size to 16oz (half the current size, same as a grande at SB) would also avoid the “supersize” effect here. But the lemonade itself isn’t really the issue imo.

EssentialCoffee ,

So get a medium instead of a large?

HubertManne ,

not now but tommorrow morning yeah

leftzero ,

Problem is that stuff seems to be more lemonated caffeine than caffeinated lemonade.

aubertlone ,

Fuck me…

I was just thinking I wanted to try some Charged Lemonade.

Etterra ,

Who’d have thought a place that can’t even make a bagel with cream cheese properly would be the one to turbo-charge the lemonade.

Seriously, once I decided to get one and they gave me an uncut bagel and little shitty single-serve cream cheese. Even I asked wtf and said I wanted it done they looked at me as if I were from friggin outer space.

broface ,

I don’t think the two are related, at all.

snippyfulcrum ,
@snippyfulcrum@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty sure it’s normal to put your own cream cheese on… But it would have been nice if they’d at least cut the bagel, I guess.

PoorAristocat ,

That’s ridiculous, if you get breakfast sandwiches do they just give you an egg, mayo, and bread? Aren’t they in the service industry?

ProtecyaTec ,

If you want something done a certain way and are not sure if they provide that kind of thing, you’re supposed to ask. Some people have their bagels sliced instead of cut, some not at all. Like, just ask.

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

400 mg a day?

Apparently I should be dead.

WindyRebel ,

Same boat. I easily drink a pot a day. Been thinking I should try and cut back, but maybe this is the push I need.

Bonehead , (edited )

Most 8 ounce cups of coffee contain 80 to 100 milligrams of caffeine. A large coffee from Tim Hortons is 20 ounces which has roughly 250mg of caffeine. And I used to drink 2, sometimes 3 or 4, of those a day.

I'll likely be dead by next Tuesday. I sure could go for a coffee right now though.

Edit: For those that want to plan accordingly, a 20 ounce blonde roast from Starbucks has 475mg of caffeine. The dark roast had about 340mg.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Have you tried, I don’t know…sleeping?

Bonehead ,

I only stop sleeping when I sustain 3-4 large Timmy's a day for many weeks. On an average Sunday morning when I don't have anything to do, I can drink 2 cups of homebrew and fall asleep on the couch watching TV.

Consequently, among other observations, I've also considered getting tested for ADHD.

KnightontheSun ,

Well, the body changes over time. I used to drink a ton of coffee back in my 20-30s. Something happened in my 40s. I became very sensitive to caffeine and I couldn’t handle anything more than a cup. Now I can’t drink it on the regular as it will keep me awake at night. I miss it very much, so every now and then I’ll have a cup, but only if I know I have the next day off.

someguy3 ,

Decaf?

KnightontheSun ,

I switched over to Earl Grey. Love that stuff now.

The spouse still drinks the double dark French roast I love, so I just make her share on those days I want it. It’s a local roaster with no decaf in that flavor.

trash80 ,

There is caffeine in Earl Grey.

KnightontheSun ,

Sure, not much though. A pittance compared to the strong coffee I liked.

trash80 ,

It varies, but it isn’t negligible.

Earl Grey tea contains minimal nutrients. On average, 8 ounces of brewed black tea includes: … Your cup of earl grey tea also contains 40 to 120 milligrams of caffeine. www.webmd.com/…/earl-grey-tea-is-it-good-for-you

KnightontheSun ,

Okay, thanks doc

squiblet ,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

It’s very unfortunate what happened to this girl. I don’t understand though how having a serious heart condition, she didn’t read the sign that said “as much caffeine as coffee” or “guarana and green coffee”. I have a few food related conditions and I read or research absolutely everything I consume at a restaurant.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

If it was clearly labeled she would have been able to make that choice and there wouldn't have been a court decision that it wasn't labeled well enough.

squiblet ,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

It was clearly labeled with the phrases I listed and the amounts of caffeine.

ChunkMcHorkle , (edited )
@ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world avatar

deleted by creator

squiblet ,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

If it wasn't, we'll probably find out in the lawsuit. not sure what your 'lol' is about because you can't say with anymore certainty it was not labeled than someone can assert that it was. As show in other articles, the sign with the name of the drink included the description of the caffeine content. It seems unlikely that it didn't have a name label on the drink dispenser, but sure, it's possible and if so, that is negligent of them. Unlimited Sip Club also isn't a good idea for this drink.

As far as me and a 'plot arc easier for you to live with': what are you talking about? Do you think I am Panera or something and I'm wracked with guilt? Seems like an unnecessary analysis of what you think about my personality for some unknown reason.

bioemerl ,

I read or research absolutely everything I consume at a restaurant

Generally if this is your standard people will die

squiblet , (edited )
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

It’s a reasonable standard for someone who has a rare heart condition and can’t drink caffeine. People without heart conditions are not going to die from this lemonade.

bioemerl ,

You are suggesting people who have a rare air condition to spend their whole life in constant fear every single thing the eater drink having caffeine in it and it'll eventually kill them.

It's just not sustainable and not reasonable, it's so easy to just put a big bold warning label when things have caffeine when you wouldn't expect it.

squiblet ,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

It WAS labeled with the phrase “contains as much caffeine as our coffee” and “caffeine from guarana and green coffee”. And yes, I do expect people with a rare condition that might kill them to be wary of caffeine. I’m allergic to tree nuts. Therefore I make sure everything I consume does not have tree nuts. I have celiac disease, so I make sure everything I consume does not contain gluten. I have T1, and learn the carb amounts for everything I consume beforehand. I don’t expect every product to have a warning label for the 1% of people who have those conditions.

bioemerl ,

Put it this way. Someone died. The labeling wasn't enough.

SheeEttin ,

The only way to get it to zero is by eliminating caffeine entirely. Not just from this, but from energy drinks, coffee, and so on. Because there will always be someone who ignores any warnings and has something they shouldn’t.

bioemerl ,

Yeah, but there's a fine line between someone drinking an energy drink and someone drinking lemonade.

The problem here is that it isn't directly and obviously intuitive that lemonade has tons of caffeine. It should be.

SheeEttin ,

The signs describing the caffeine content aren’t intuitive enough for you?

bioemerl ,

When you sell lemonade that rarely has caffeine and make it as caffeinated as coffee you need something that stands out and will always be noticed.

No, adding some stats at the bottom of the sign that are easily missed do not count.

iopq ,

Even if there are warning signs, doesn’t mean everyone will read them, even people with heart conditions

bioemerl ,

That's true, but you can eliminate like 90 percent of the risk with appropriate AND VERY BOLD labeling

Brekky ,

The last time this was posted there was examples of some shops missing the labels. I don’t think if it was ever confirmed if the shop the woman visited was displaying the label or not.

RaineV1 ,

So, that is a ton of caffeine, but if you have a heart condition you really should be more careful about that shit.

odigo2020 ,

I get what you’re saying, but, for me, it would never even cross my mind that lemonade would ever have caffeine in it to start, let alone an insane amount like Panera has.

TheMauveAvenger ,

It’s called Charged Lemonade; that wouldn’t give you any pause?

subignition , (edited )
@subignition@kbin.social avatar

I would expect it to have caffeine content comparable to soda or tea. This 30 oz drink has about as much caffeine as four 12 oz Red Bulls

edit: It's not even behind the counter?? At least drip coffee, which is one of the only beverages that can exceed the caffeine content at issue here, doesn't come sweet enough by default that it's tempting to have a refill.

Crawford said if Charged Lemonade is going to remain on the menu, it should be less accessible to customers. She said she thought that it should be behind the counter and that it shouldn’t be eligible for refills.
“By virtue of it being part of the Unlimited Sip Club, it’s suggesting to consumers that it’s safe to have more than one,” she said. “And that is a big problem because it’s not safe to have one, let alone more than one.”

CaptPretentious ,

Drip coffee isn’t kept behind the counter because people can overcaffeinate themselves.

First off tons of places put out drip coffee in crafts. Example Pizza Ranch. Many restaurants will just drop off a craft of coffee at your table if you ask for it.

You can literally fill an entire shopping cart with caffeine at the grocery store.

SheeEttin ,

*carafe

Ender2k ,

And has had the caffeine content for both 20oz and 30oz listed on the sign hanging from the dispenser since they launched Charged Lemonade…

paprika ,

Charged with flavor? Charged with fun? It’s got electrolytes?

It’s not like stupid corpo slogans actually mean anything.

TheMauveAvenger ,

Charged with flavor? Charged with fun? It’s got electrolytes?

You kind of just proved my point. Stopping to think about it because of the name. At minimum I would not expect it to be regular lemonade with that name so I would want to know what makes it different.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Their point is that you wouldn’t stop to think about it. It’s branding, it’s meaningless. It doesn’t say “caffeine.”

Venti ,

It is also next to other normal lemonades like it belongs there and not in the “coffee” section.

CaptPretentious ,

Imagine just asking the employee there or looking up online or doing literally anything.

Nudding ,

That provides no indication that there’s drugs in the lemonade lol

CaptPretentious ,

So what do you do with your cell phone at night…

What do you call that thing when you plug it in to the device that’s plugged into the wall and then plugs into the phone what do you call that. And then when that process is done you would say that your phone is fully what…

Also if you don’t know something and you see something new, you do know that you can just ask about it. “This is called charged lemonade what’s in it?”

Nudding ,

Yeah man, it’s electrically charged lemonade. Good take.

CaptPretentious ,

Charged, as in energy. And you know that. You’re being obstinent.

Nudding ,

At least I’m not being retarded.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Charged could mean the flavor, not stimulants, because it is a vague and meaningless term.

CaptPretentious ,

So you flavor your phone every night?

A person can literally just ask what’s in it. You can do that every restaurant you can ask what’s in everything.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

You think the lemonade was electrified?

CaptPretentious ,

At no point in your life have you ever said that you need to electrify your phone. Or that your phone is electrified.

You know damn well charged meant energy. Be less a disappointment.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Well considering lemons have no caffeine to start, I’d assume it’s like a regular coffee or soda. Not 12 of them.

SheeEttin ,

It appears that it is like a regular coffee.

CaptPretentious ,

Soap doesn’t have caffeine in it normally but I’ve known if caffeinated soap for about 20 years now.

Neve8028 ,

It’s roughly the same as a cup of coffee. 8 fl oz cup of coffee is 96mg caffeine which puts a 20 fl oz cup at about 240mg and 30 fl oz at about 360mg. The charged lemonades have about 260 and 390, respectively. This is literally just a case of not reading the sign that clearly indicates how much caffeine is in each serving.

stillwater ,

What about the use of the word “Charged” indicates it has that much caffeine?

Neve8028 ,

I mean, it does help to read the sign when you’re getting your drink. The caffeine content is fairly clearly indicated.

…greenmatters.com/…/panera-charged-lemonade-lawsu…

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

When was the last time you had fuckin caffeinated lemonade? How do you be careful about it when you ordered a thing that doesn’t have caffeine literally anywhere else on earth?

CaptPretentious ,

It’s called Charged Lemonade.

Do you know what Hard Lemonade is?

Oh and gfuel makes caffeinated lemonade.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah, hard ____ is an established thing. More than that, it isn’t sold alongside non-alcoholic (lemonade, cider, seltzer, etc.). Gfuel is an energy drink, it makes sense that anything-flavored gfuel will have caffeine.

“Charged” means nothing. There’s no such thing as “charged cider” or “charged seltzer.” It looks like a generic "flavorblasted-"style marketing term to me.

CaptPretentious ,

Because it’s an established thing. That’s your defense. It’s an established thing!

You asked when was the last time you heard of Lemonade with caffeine I gave you an example and you didn’t like it.

I know of caffeinated root beer. Been around for much more than a decade. You going to make a federal case of that too because root beer isn’t any established caffeinated drink.

Also, because so much of your debate is it’s not a thing it’s not established…

sprecherbrewery.com/…/charged-lemonade-cans-varie…

You do absolutely zero research. But you’re more than happy to stand on your soapbox and proclaim what you think as fact.

RaineV1 ,

There's generally a sign saying the amount of caffeine it has, and gets advertised as being caffeinated. Yes, people with food issues need to actually read stuff like that.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

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