I’ve used nextcloud with a dedicated folder before. Steamdeck and miyoo mini works with it well. That or good old fashioned sd card, look for .sav then push all into another drive.
I wish installing linux for non-technical people using windows were as easy as downloading an .exe and walking through an installation wizard. Something that gave very very simple instructions, backed up their stuff, rebooted to install linux with the chosen settings, and restored their backup into linux.
IMO if it were that simple or as simple as double clicking an .exe and hitting Install Linux (with default settings) that did all of the above with a default distro set by the installer, more people would be willing to install linux.
And non of that Gnome shit. Drop them into a distro with a DE configured to look like windows (probably KDE or Cinnamon).
Non tech savvy people don’t install windows or macos either. Everything comes pre-installed with the machine you buy.
If you make it to the point where you kinda know what Rufus and an iso file are, Pop! OS and Mint are easier to install than Windows.
I suppose a program could be made that partitions your OS drive and installs a distro on the second partition with a dual boot selection screen on next boot, but if you’re at the point where you’re curious enough about Linux to try it, you’ve probably learned enough to use Rufus and an iso file.
The answer is system integrators need to pre install and actively support one of the more friendly distros (like Valve with SteamOS on the deck) or it’ll never catch on.
Simple users don’t care what OS you present them with, as long as it’s already there and it’s easy to use.
I think you’re assuming too little and assuming too much of average users at the same time. Either you don’t deal with them or have forgotten what it was like to be one.
normal users install software. OS to a user is just software. let it be installable like MPV, VLC, GIMP, Regex cleaners, games, …
just because you know what linux is doesn’t mean you understand Rufus, the BIOS, partitioning, ISOs vs EXE, etc.
I think the best we can do is “easier to install than Windows.” Which it currently is, barring the fact most devices ship with Windows pre-installed. If you’re a PC or gaming enthusiast and you’ve built your own computer from spare parts, installing Linux is a similar though more streamlined process than Windows.
I think Fedora Media Writer kind of hits those boxes, and the Fedora installation (with the Blivet partitioner) is fairly easy.
My problem, however, and Brodie on YouTube can attest to this, is the language. Open source projects have a problem with communication, messaging and signalling.
It should be the priority of design and the UX to properly communicate actions, events, consequences, etc. It’s also about accessibility, as bad messaging can be confusing and off-putting.
Yes, the arch wiki is very good and useful. The issue is, that you need the wiki in the first place. In a user-friendly distro everything would either work OOTB, or it could be done intuitively via GUI.
how far can you get in arch without opening the terminal?
Kind of the same here, except it ended with XP, I never switched to Vista. I started using Windows already with Windows 3.0 in 1991. I’ve been using Linux since 2005, because Ubuntu lifted the Linux experience enough to become my main OS.
Back then games were a huge problem, I’m glad to hear it works so well for you. 👍 😀
Same, but I did use 7 for a bit. I started with Linux in 2006, and I was 80%+ Linux until about 2013, when I switched full-time to Linux (when Steam came to Linux). I remember buying Factorio and Minecraft in Beta because they supported Linux, and I also remember when Humble Bundle was good (lots of great indies with native Linux support).
I’m always excited to see people finding Linux useful these days. There’s no way I’m going back to Windows at this point because it’s just so annoying to get anything done imo.
Yes I too dual booted early on with XP, exactly because gaming was shit on Linux. Then I gamed on Wine for a long while, but Steam really is a godsend for Linux. ;)
I admit I also tried Windows 7, because the desktop went to crap for a while on Linux, when Gnome 2 was deprecated. But there are several good ones now IMO.
Yup. I used Windows because I needed certain Windows programs for work/school. For example, I was required to use Visual Studio, so I developed on Linux than ran in VS to meet t the requirements. Same with other MS-specific tooling, none of which I’ve needed since.
A major reason that Windows is “popular” is because it’s pre-installed on desktops and laptops. Users don’t have a choice when they go to the store to buy a laptop for doing banking stuff or save pictures from their old camcorder.
It’s the same way with browsers. IE was “popular”, but only because that was the browser that was pre-installed on Windows. The IE browser was complete shit.
What needs to happen is that all the laptop makers, HP, Lenovo Acer etc. start having Linux pre-installed on their laptops in the stores. That probably won’t happen, as I imagine that Microsoft pays these companies to sell their laptops with Windows on them.
Linux actually tends to support more hardware do to ridiculously long term support, stable systems requirements and high flexibility.
Windows on the other hand, tends to support newer hardware very well while forcing millions of older hardware to the junkyard because of EOL and ever increasing system requirements. However it’s also to be noted that Linux support for newer hardware has been getting much much better in recent years thanks to increased interest from Intel, AMD, Nvdia, etc.
software
Depends by what way you mean, but in general sure, Windows can have more “software compatibility”, but it’s also to be noted that it’s a monopoly forcing Linux and other OSs into a chicken egg scenario. Linux software compatibility has been increasing exponentially over last few years, and increasing market share helps massively; that’s why Linux going from 3% to 4% in just 8 months is such a big deal.
Anyone building a new pc, is going to use modern hardware not EOL hardware. Yes it is great that linux can revive old laptops making it perfectly capable for browsing and word processing, but for a new gaming pc with modern hardware that i build to play modern games i will choose windows over linux anyday.
Linux going 3 to 4 is because govt office pc. Also why linux have a 25 percent market share in india according to the same stats. Because all these pcs need is a chrome browser and word processing. If you look at recent steam hardware survey linux only have 2 percent market share in which half of them are steam deck users.
Why should i waste time troubleshooting on linux, when windows have 100 percent game compatibility and i don’t have to worry about any future games and proton incompatibility. Also popular games like valorant, league, eft, warzone and services like gamepass, netflix 4k doesnt outright work on linux.
Actually, modern hardware in general tends to work perfectly fine on Linux with the exception of a few (mostly Nvidia) problem cards, sure, sometimes support isn’t immediately there at launch, but that’s becoming less and less of an issue with growing market and company interest.
Linux going 3 to 4 is because govt office pc.
Nope, that may play a factor but that’s a significantly tiny factor. The stat is based on global desktop market share, there’s a fuck ton of other factors you’re not taking into account. Govt office PCs doesn’t account for the 12+ million increase in users.
Also why linux have a 25 percent market share in india according to the same stats.
Because it’s localized to the India desktop market in that particular stat, and Linux being extremely popular in India, more so than MacOS and increasingly growing in popularity… Literally just ask Muta(someordinarygamers), lol.
Because all these pcs need is a chrome browser and word processing.
Nope, if that was the case they’d just use a Chromebook.
If you look at recent steam hardware survey linux only have 2 percent market share in which half of them are steam deck users.
Ok and? That’s based on Steams users base and taken at random, I’ve been on steam + Linux for years and never once was I prompted to participate in the survey. And ofc the several million SteamDecks they sold globally would be a significant part of that.
Why should i waste time troubleshooting on linux, when windows have 100 percent game compatibility and i don’t have to worry about any future games and proton incompatibility.
You’re looking at it far too black and white, Linux has a number of pro-consumer advantages. Just because it’s not ready for you’re specific use case doesn’t mean it’s not ready for others.
Also popular games like valorant, league, eft, warzone
That’s on the game devs for not cooperating with Valve and the Linux community.
What’s important is that there are steps you can take to get them working if you happen to play them all thanks to community efforts.
services like gamepass
Microsoft is in direct competition with Linux, common sense…
netflix 4k doesnt outright work on linux.
Netflix 4k does work on Linux out of the box, the hell you on about?
You seem to be experiencing a bug, have you tried reporting it?
You are here agreeing with me on why linux is a inferior experience on software and hardware front. You are softening the blow by blaming developers and capitalism. You dont have to ask muta, I work in the govt health sector in india and here every pc runs ubuntu. This is same for other sectors. Everything is done on the browser. Also gaming here is dominated by Mobile so these numbers are surely overinflated.
You realize that India in itself only counts for a small part of the global % as well, right?
I’m not agreeing with you, you’re perspective is filled with fallacies, over simplifications, and massively unsupported assumptions as well as unsupported claims, in addition to a lack of understanding of how percentages work. Your perspective is extremely narrow and flawed.
Also gaming here is dominated by Mobile so these numbers are surely overinflated.
The global desktop market percentage and Steam user survey do not include the mobile OS market share. First off, Steam is purely desktop, they do not provide mobile apps.
Second off, if the entire OS global market was used then Android would be on top, trumping everything as it’s the #1 OS in the entire world by a huge margin, Windows doesn’t even compare in this regard.
Please use some fucking common sense, GODDAMN.
I am using statcounter for india numbers not steam. Steam numbers are not overinflated by these office pcs. Also india have 1.5billion people so any gain here have a significant impact on stat counter worldwide numbers.
The population of India is irrelevant, the India Desktop PC market only accounts for approximately 13.9 million users total. Linux holds 15.64% in India, therefore 15.64% of 13.9 million is only approximately 2.17 million, which again does not account for the 12+ million increase of users.
The global desktop OS market is estimated to be 1.23 billion users total.
The Linux desktop OS market share is 4.3% of 1.23 billion which is approximately 49.3 million users. 1% of 1.23 billion is 12.3 million, therefore Linux grew 12.3 million in the last 8 months.
India only accounts for 2.17 million of the 49.3 million global total.
If Linux adoption grew to 16% in India that’d only be a 53.24 thousand increase.
Again, you have a complete lack of understanding of how percentages work.
Edit : actually I miss calculated because Linux is apparently 4.05% now, not 4.03%. that grew really fast.
Makes it pretty clear. Whenever someone starts tossing around accusations like that and “fanboy” they are doing so because they don’t have an argument to back their agenda with, so they resort to accusing you of doing the thing that they’re literally doing themselves to deflect and derail the conversation.
Gaming PC means video games, video games have historically been Windows or maybe Mac compatible. Only in the past couple years have game makers started making Linux compatibility a priority, and even then its a small percentage.
Until all systems align, Windows will continue to dominate. But things like HTML5 over Flash are helping those efforts!
That’s not the segment I am talking about. I’m talking about “regular folks”, who know nothing about IT, but need a laptop for whatever reason. Checking their bank, mail… That’s the majority of Windows users. Not the PC builder. They probably don’t even know what “Windows” is, if you asked them.
If Linux were pre-installed on PC’s, most people wouldn’t even notice a difference, because all they need is a browser and maybe an office suite, for very simple work.
I’ve said this before, but if there was a basic distro that named programs things like Internet Browser and Letter Writer, a massive amount of normal computer users could be switched fairly easily.
The vast majority of people use their computer to launch a browser and maybe use a word processor every now and then. It’s why the Chromebook type laptops are so popular - they do everything that most people want.
In theory, in the EU, as well as some other places, you have the right to get refunded for Windows if you don’t want it. In practice that’s often hard to pull off in most shops.
Imagine a “Choose your Browser”-style pop-up, but for your OS on first boot. I’d really love to see it, partially mostly for the amount of pure chaos it would cause.
Honestly, it really is. Lots of people prefer a specific browser, for different reasons. And a lot of people use more than 1 browser as well.
It could be similar to the ‘choose your search engine’ was supposed to help against googles monopoly (in eu) i.imgur.com/3wS6Sai.png
however i dont see this coming to windows or macos, because of those companies focus on being the only company in the world. but this could easily be used on linux. (even though most users of linux prefer firefox, i’d guess)
A major reason that Windows is “popular” is because it’s pre-installed on desktops and laptops
I think thats being a bit disingenuous
its also that Windows has always been easy to use because it has an good GUI thats easy to navigate and figure things out with. You can sit anyone in front of a windows machine and they can figure out how to use it and what to do in relatively short order without spending half the time in internet searches or trying to decipher esoteric terminal commands. Its easily one of the best point/click/discover UIs as far as OS’s go.
And its understandable that it easy, considering they’ve probably poured billions of dollars into making the GUI easy to understand and use for any layperson since windows 95 began development and the move away from dos command line.
Sadly their GUI started to decline with Windows 10, and I have not touched 11 with a 10 foot pole, so I dont know how good/bad it is…but I wouldnt be surprised if its worse than 10.
There was a time 10-20 years ago when what you said wasnt a joke, but a promise and a threat, lol.
Linux has come a long way in that time. Not just technically, but usability wise, and even in the mellowing-the-fuck-out of the community that, at a time, were very aggressively against making things more user friendly and letting people into their exclusive technical club.
and I’m glad for it. Its good for the OS, and its good for its future, and its good for the community.
I think you are partially right, but I think the only reason Windows is easier for the user, is because they are pre-exposed to Windows.
If you took someone, who has zero knowledge of any OS or its GUI, I honestly doubt that Windows would be better.
It’s the same if you take a person who has only known MacOS their whole life and ask them to navigate in Windows… or vice versa… You won’t see positive results.
I moved to Linux on my desktop back in 2019. I was sick of my slightly old (4 year old) processor running constantly at 20 to 30 percent utilization.
During COVID, there were times I worked from home and did so successfully on Linux.
Gaming was one of the big for me as well but the transition to Linux was not really that painful. There was only one of two games that I had to leave behind, and even then, I was able to set up Looking Glass to play them occasionally (definitely not a task for a regular end user).
I think some people are too comfortable with MS Office to migrate, if anything, I think Office isa bigger barrier to Linux adoption than Windows is. After all, the are plenty of comments saying “Windows 10… Bad. Windows 11… Worse!” There are no comments focusing on the Office suite being bad.
Because honestly, Office is pretty great for what it does.
I know a lot of folks here can’t get over it being proprietary or all the other anticompetitive stuff Microsoft has done with Office, but once we got M365 at work, a lot of my work life got a lot easier.
Any time I have tried to use LibreOffice or other alternatives, I feel like I’m giving up ten years’ worth of quality of life improvements. That’s generally my experience with 99% of FOSS stuff - fully functional but dogshit to navigate and use.
> Runs at a solid 80fps at 1440p on high settings, the only graphical issue I noticed was flickering volumetric clouds. This game ate my old card (the venerable GTX 1080) alive even on Windows.
As much as I’d like to see Linux gaining traction, I have a hard time believing market share is as high as StatCounter reported in some places. For example in Canada, Linux usage is at 1.99%, which even still seems high to me. That’s 1 in every 50 desktops. Anecdotally I can think of only 3 people, including myself, who primarily run Linux on desktop. In corporate environments, I have only ever seen Windows, or sometimes Macs deployed to employees. Even with the hate on Windows 11, it still works for most people, so they upgrade to it (begrudgingly, if they care at all), or simply buy a new computer for it. I truly wonder who else out there is running desktop Linux here in Canada…
That being said, I am less skeptical of the growth in users in India, but not for the reason the author listed. I think it’s more likely that it is growing in popularity due to its cost (ie, free), as well as the fact that many distros are more lightweight than Windows, which especially benefits older or cheaper hardware. India is still a developing country and I’d imagine many don’t have the resources to buy the latest hardware, and instead will make do with what they have or what they can afford. I think this will continue to be a boon for Linux in the developing world as Windows is not getting cheaper or faster.
Overall, I think Linux has nowhere to go but up. Once Windows 10 finally goes EoL, we may see more people looking to make the switch.
That’s 1 in every 50 desktops. Anecdotally I can think of only 3 people, including myself
Can you name 147 people using Windows? If you can, then that’s 1 in every 50. Of course, people you know are probably the technical sort that are more likely to pay attention to their OS, but still you’d need to be able to individually name 147 Windows users just to match the 1 in 50 stat. Point I’m trying to make is that one in 50 really is not very many!
@TheNanaimoBarScene@testeronious its just an average. Those Linux users are probably concentrated into a niche userbase, not evenly spread into the population. They are not your average users, who mostly run windows. But they are definitely there and I'm glad to see that.
That being said, I am less skeptical of the growth in users in India, but not for the reason the author listed. I think it’s more likely that it is growing in popularity due to its cost (ie, free), as well as the fact that many distros are more lightweight than Windows, which especially benefits older or cheaper hardware.
Most Windows in India is pirated. Microsoft doesn’t care unless you’re a big company. The second point is true. Another reason is that schools shifted to Ubuntu 10-15 years ago, and government departments are now shifting to Linux.
Agreed, Linux is quite popular in academia, particularly in any technical field. A lot of scientific software has to run on Linux because of supercomputers, and especially a lot of open source software is Linux only. So a lot of students run Linux for convenience, and a lot of computer labs run Linux as well. Of course, there’s also the fact that lots of people just think Linux is better than the alternatives, and they’re more likely to try new things when they’re at a university student’s age.
So I feel like that would probably be a significant contribution to the 2% that’s being reported
I just wish someone could have a walkthrough guide on how to get the games (and launchers) to work for me like they do for you. Every time something jams up and I have to reinstall until I shrug and put windows back on.
ProtonDB usually has pretty good information on launcher settings for games. I’ve found several good walkthroughs on game forums, as well, like on Steam community forums or the game’s own website.
What games are giving you trouble and where are you looking for walkthroughs? And what are you looking for in the walkthrough?
Been traditionally trying to use Linux Mint but am at my wits end so I'm willing to try anything. As far as what I'm looking for, just step by step to get Steam and Heroic installed and working. Any game I've found that has a launcher is simply a no go, never works.
Now we've got flatpaks out and people swear by them but I usually get something working one day and the next it quits. I admit it, I need more experience at this; but I can't quit Windows until I understand what the hell is going wrong and how to fix it.
I don’t know what games you are playing, and I only used Mint for a short time before moving to other diatros, but I remember it being pretty plug-and-play for most things. I admit I was mostly playing through Steam and a few applications through Lutris (mostly FFXIV), using a Wine wrapper to use the official launcher.
For Steam, the Steam launcher will handle most of the game-specific launchers for you. For Lutris, make sure you open Lutris and update it after installing it and before trying to add any games to it. I don’t have any experience with Heroic (or with Windows version of Epic Launcher either).
Trial and error, lots of reading ProtonDB, wikis, etc. I only just recently got a decent handle on how to properly use wine prefixes to get mods and things working.
In general, use Steam when you can, then use Heroic for non Steam games. Lutris is very powerful and super useful for games that aren’t installed from a larger distributor, ie from a CD or direct from the devs, but I find the UI can be a bit spartan. Steam and Heroic have fewer features but are way more user friendly.
Good luck. It can definitely be frustrating but remember that you have access to tons of resources and an excellent community if you encounter issues.
It’s really easy, just install steam or lutris. However, some games might have their own specific issues when running under proton/wine under specific hardware configuration. If this is what happened to you, I’m afraid there might not be an easy way outside of putting some elbow grease to start tinkering with the config, or ask for help in linux gaming community.
@bigmclargehuge it's pretty impressive how far along Linux has come. I also feel things mostly just working these days. I am facing some issue with a fingerprint reader on my laptop not being supported, but there are definitely fully compatible fp readers out there, even from the same manufacturer. And there's general stability, at least as good as on windows and I do say that while tinkering quite a bit.
And for many things AI related, like running models locally, this is almost a Linux first experience. Just the recently was I impressed how easy it was to get local llms to run using ollama, even on my laptop with an Nvidia GPU. Impressive.
I tried LM Studio since AMD advertised it for their GPUs. Once ROCm was installed my GPU was detected and I could use LLMs on that rather than on the CPU. I struggled to get it to work on Windows even when LM Studio was trying to do everything to get it to work.
Number 2 was huge for me, and it hit home when I realised that 99% of my Steam library was supported. Thankfully I don’t need to use any Windows only apps (Adobe suite, etc) so the decision to move over to Linux was trivial personally
Yup, I’m guessing that’s the main contributing factor here. Just like how Chrome grew in popularity because the nerds (e.g. me) shilled for it, Linux is also growing because gamers still for it. It turns out that if you can solve one major pain point for a very passionate subset of the population, you get a lot of free evangelists and people will follow.
I remember playing the original java 8 version of this game back in 2011 when it was freely distributed. I was 17/18 at the time so felt I was slightly too old for it but I do remember the sensation of playing something which felt completely novel.
Kind of crazy how much gaming has changed since then while minecraft remains a java executable.
It wasn’t a little kids game until years later. Also I think it’s old enough that the early versions were actually Java 6… I remember updating my code for Java 7.
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