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delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

There’s nothing wrong with volunteering with a FOSS project

autonomoususer OP ,

That’s hardware.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Its both. And there’s nothing wrong with volunteering for it

Baleine ,
@Baleine@jlai.lu avatar

I wouldn’t blame a volunteer but I think its wrong for for-profit companies to ask for non remunerated work

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

There’s nothing wrong with them asking

There is something wrong if they make demands

thesmokingman ,

I thought that there was no way this was unpaid and that the ambassadors would get Framework tech. Nope. You have to already own it. Doesn’t even seem like it comes with a discount even?

I am a product “ambassador” for several things in the gaming world. I get access to new things earlier and at a discounted rate. I get free promotional items that actually have some value. I sometimes get a per diem if I do certain events. I feel valued. I don’t get that vibe at all from this.

laughterlaughter ,

And how much do these products you’re an ambassador of cost?

And are these new start-ups, or mega-companies?

thesmokingman ,

Game promos are usually expensive long-term because they’re produced in limited batches.

Most board game companies run off Kickstarter. Your distinction doesn’t really apply because it’s not normal to get external funding. Framework just hit their Series A which, usually, includes money for marketing and running in the red. Board game companies usually can’t run in the red.

laughterlaughter ,

You’re comparing board game companies with a laptop manufacturing company, right?

A company manufacturing a laptop like the Framework laptop is not just sourcing parts and assembling them together. There’s a LOT of work put in it, way more than some board game.

Their laptop costs in the thousands, and given their (so far) niche market, I can see why it isn’t feasible for them to give away these expensive to manufacture machines to community ambassadors.

thesmokingman ,

That explanation runs counter to my experience with VC-funded companies, marketing budgets, and running in the red in general. Trying to hit as much of the total addressable market as possible means burning money. Notice how I expanded and included discounts? You don’t even get a 5% off code. Framework is making a profit so they can lose margin on a low percentage (if they’re not making a profit then there’s no reason to not throw away more to get closer to TAM anyway).

Board games run in the thousands for some of the bigger ticket items. I’m not sure you understand either market. I regularly crowdfund packages that are more than at least 25% of the Framework prices I’m skimming now.

laughterlaughter ,

Thanks for the insight.

bitfucker ,

They are specifically searching for volunteers. So it makes sense that they are searching for an owner and active user of their product instead of a random person that may or may not understand their product value. If you are requiring payment to be their ambassador then you are working for them not volunteering.

thesmokingman ,

You’ve done a great job summarizing the bad things they’re doing!

bitfucker ,

I don’t know man. If I have a framework laptop AND I regularly attend computer events of some sort, the framework ambassador programs do not sound all that different than the usual but you got free merch. That is the people they are targeting. You can even say their fanboy or whatever equivalent.

Ultimately, framework knows there are people that are actively using their products, attending events and love to talk about their products. This can be seen in another way of framework giving those people free merch for their free marketing that they always do anyway.

haui_lemmy ,

I agree that it can be viewed that way. I wish they would have worded it accordingly.

„We would like to award i our die hard fans with free merch through our ambassador programme. Please email us if you: 1. own a framework device, 2. regularly attend conferences, 3. like to talk about framework to new people. In this case you‘re eligible for our ambassador programme and to free merch and other cool stuff.“

In harsh opposition to searching for people working for free for a (albeit good meaning I suppose) for profit company.

baseless_discourse ,

From my read, this is not even for marketing, but mainly for feedback to improve framework products. Framework will also have merch packages for the ambassador.

These ambassadors would attend linux conferences anyways, framework just want them to communicate to frameworks when anyone have any feedback.

I am okay with this.

ByteOnBikes ,

Oh nice!

Then it’s really just a bad name. Volunteer ambassador implies a lot of other responsibilities.

Other industries call it like VIP or Insiders Club. And their responsibilities for being a part of it is to also share the excitement of the product.

gfom ,
@gfom@lemmy.world avatar

They could’ve worded it better, and make it clearer in the first couple of sentences that this is intended for owners of FWs who already go to these events.

I had bigger issues with, say, Ubisoft and JGL getting artist to work for exposure on Beyond Good and Evil 2 back when that was a thing.

But I also 100% that it feels like asking for free labour, intended or not.

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

Ehh I don’t have any beef with this. The best parts of Linux are about unpaid community labor.

Replaceable parts is a good thing. They don’t perform well for the price. I considered getting a couple for work, but perf and the 3:2 screen are just a no go.

matcha_addict ,

The best parts of Linux involve unpaid community labor, yes, but framework laptop is a for-profit product, so I wouldn’t think it applies here.

WbrJr ,

I agree, but in the other Hand, everyone at framework is just a huge nerd. They all worked as engineers in big other companies before and decided its time for a change. So for me it does not really feel like profit is their sole number one priority. And like the team diacribes quite well in the comments of the post, they are just enthusiastic and want to enable motivated lads to work more closely with the developer team

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

So for me it does not really feel like profit is their sole number one priority.

Considering that they get paid their monthly salaries either way, the amount of profit is surely not on their mind all the time. According to Framework investor LTT Linus, the company is very successful. Why doesn’t he promote Linux on Framework then?

delirious_owl , (edited )
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Its an open-source product, through. You could make your own laptop with their designs

RvTV95XBeo ,

Unpaid Linux ambassadors? Isn’t that just Lemmy?

Diplomjodler3 ,

May the Penguin be with you!

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

Unpaid Linux ambassadors?

No, unpaid Framework PR people at Linux events.

Snapz ,

“We’d love to not pay you for labor!!!”

:)

BaroqueInMind ,

These guys are the Tesla of PC distributors, and the Framework laptop is trash tier Cybertruck equivalent.

DieserTypMatthias ,
@DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml avatar

Why do you think that?

BaroqueInMind ,

Because I am dumb and don’t know what I am talking about.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

Framework: based on the idea of repair and upgrade ability

Tesla: as anti right to repair as it gets, builds cars that are difficult to repair

🤔 yes these are similar.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Tesla is the antithesis of FOSS.

BaroqueInMind ,

Tesla likes to lock shit down tighter than a nun’s panties.

kittenzrulz123 ,

This is an awful and scummy move, in exchange for marketing their product they give out stickers? They aren’t giving out Framework laptops and if setting up a framework station at a convention costs money you’re supposed to pay for it yourself? If I ever want to upgrade to a modern laptop I think I’ll choose System76.

prenatal_confusion ,

Aren’t the just rebranding some generic ones that they vetted for compatibility? I heard that somewhere, so take it with a grain of salt.

Hawke ,

That’s what most laptop OEMs do.

Dell is just “rebranded” Compal, Quanta, Clevo…

That’s not a bad thing and the ODM/OEM system is not anything new.

Sometimes the difference is just the badge, sometimes it’s firmware changes too, sometimes it’s completely customized to the OEM specifications.

It has varied a lot over time and mostly depends on how big the OEM is and proportionally how much time/effort/expense they want to throw at a particular design.

shirro ,

I have a Framework 13" DIY running Linux. It is functional. I am reasonably confident I will be able to buy replacements for anything that breaks which is important to me. It is well designed for repair and upgrade but other devices offer better price/performance/features. If you are on a tight budget and care about the environment buy used.

autonomoususer OP , (edited )

Long-term?

shirro , (edited )

I purchased in December 2022. I have not needed to buy any replacement parts but availability appears good.

At the same time I bought one of my kids the cheapest MSI laptop I could find for school. I just learned some of the keys on the MSI have been working intermittently. I have no idea what to do with it. We didn’t value a laptop for running Microsoft Word very highly and spent the savings on linux desktop upgrades. I can’t say it was the wrong choice. With the Framework it is trivial to check the connector or order a replacement but there was a substantial price difference.

Out of selfishness I would like people to keep buying Framework so they keep their replacement parts stocked but blind brand loyalty is stupid. People don’t need remuneration to engage in a hobby but if they are working for a company then unpaid labour is generally an abuse.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

You can probably find a used keyboard on eBay. Even if the OEM doesn’t sell parts plenty of people will part out old broken machines.

reddit_sux , (edited )

If you are on a tight budget

Not for tight budgets

Sorry i didn’t read the whole statement

mysteryname101 ,

If you are on a tight budget and care about the environment buy used.

communism ,
@communism@lemmy.ml avatar

Hm. I don’t have anything against volunteer roles (there’s a difference between volunteer roles and “unpaid work”, “unpaid work” implies a form of coercion—if it’s a volunteer role you can say no with no punishment or consequence), but the way it’s described, e.g. the implied expectation of conducting yourself professionally at Linux conferences, makes it sound like it will have quite a bit more responsibility than most volunteer roles in the Linux community. And Framework isn’t a nonprofit; they produce and sell commodities, so they should be able to pay their own workers.

I’m not rioting over it, I don’t ultimately care too much and if people want to volunteer for this role that’s their choice. I think I’d prefer they paid these ambassadors but ultimately if you don’t want to do this for free there’s not really anything coercing you into doing it, so.

ramenu ,

I can understand why this may be a issue to some people. I think if they asked Windows users this, there wouldn’t be as much of a strong reaction to this. Maybe it comes off as exploiting the good will of the Linux community, but I can’t read minds.

I’m personally ok with this. If someone willingly volunteers and enjoys doing this, then what’s the problem? But again, I’m not sure if that’s the core issue at hand here.

tabular ,
@tabular@lemmy.world avatar

Not passing judgement at this volunteering specifically but willingly doing something doesn’t necessarily mean there’s no problems. It could still be exploitative.

markstos ,

Framework clarified they are looking for people who already own Frameworks and are already attending Linux events and happy to talk to people about their laptop. They’re not really asking people to do anything additional, but they will be giving them some free merchandise.

lordnikon ,

Windows did have something liked this. It was the MVP program.

vvv ,

it feels to me, like they’re less looking for new people to start doing this “work”, but more to connect with people who already happen to be enthusiastically going to events and showing off their laptops.

penquin ,

This involves travel. I don’t know of anyone who is willing to leave their day job and just travel out of pocket without any compensation. I like the company, but this is doable if you’re a YouTuber maybe? I don’t see anyone doing it, honestly.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t see anyone doing it, honestly.

Brainwashing can achieve so many things. Surely people thinking paid FW employees are their friends and it’s merely doing their friends a favor (and in return they get stickers, some to keep, most to hand out).

penquin ,

Good luck brainwashing me out of having to pay my bills and keeping a roof of my kids’ heads. Lol

krolden ,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ll do it for a free laptpp

possiblylinux127 ,

Linux means free (cost) labor and software right?

Anyway this program is probably going to flop as you will get the bottom of the barrel.

autonomoususer OP , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    possiblylinux127 ,

    That’s why why I put cost

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