There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t have a Framework Laptop, can I still apply?

Our ambassadors need to be active users and owners of Framework Laptop(s)

That’s pathetic. In place of financial compensation, the least they could do is to give Framework notebooks away. Doesn’t even have to be a gift right away. There could be strings attached. “On loan first but you can keep it after X amount of time.”

possiblylinux127 ,

Maybe they could at least establish a way of tipping people who help solve issues.

CMDR_Horn ,

Send me a laptop and I’ll spend a few hours a week helping on your forums or even tickets. But no one should work for free

IllNess ,

**I don’t have a Framework Laptop, can I still apply?**Our ambassadors need to be active users and owners of Framework Laptop(s)

I wonder if volunteer ambassadors have to report to someone and if they have deadlines…

sentient_loom ,
@sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works avatar

They closed it to new comments.

People who feel they need to have their travel, hotel, event fees, etc. compensated are not a good fit for this program.

So “NO POOR PEOPLE.”

I disliked Framework ever since their “fans” (paid trolls) started bombarding every Thinkpad post on reddit with “frAmEwoRk iS tHe neW tHinKpaD” replies. Normally I support the little guy, but I really hope Lenovo creates their own modular laptop so I can buy one of them instead.

Draghetta ,

Good luck hoping for anything about Lenovo, they’ve gone down and down the shitter ever since they “split” from IBM.

No I don’t own a framework nor plan to do so, I’m just an average IT guy who is forced to choose between Lenovo and Mac to work, and after the third garbage laptop in a row bit the bullet and got the Mac. I also own an x200 and a t430 that i was in love with - nothing to do with the present day latrines masquerading as computers.

Screw Lenovo really. Hope for some decent competition to framework (I hope for that too, they are currently the only ones in that niche) but don’t hope for it from them.

sentient_loom ,
@sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works avatar

My T16 is fantastic. I wish it were more moddable, but it’s an amazing machine. Extremely quiet and powerful, I love the 16:10 screen. They keyboard is amazing too. Framework also has 16:10 screens and they’re more moddable, but I doubt their keyboards are any good. And as a profitable company they should pay people for advertising and data collection.

Bitrot , (edited )
@Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Lenovo is a lot more hit and miss than it used to. My T14 even has Linux bugs with the trackpad.

sentient_loom ,
@sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works avatar

yeah a lot of their stuff is junk

aard ,
@aard@kyu.de avatar

Pretty much same here - I kept an x230 alive until I had to accept earlier this year that it just is bad for overall productivity, and ended up getting a macbook. None of the newer thinkpads are good - and they’re still one of the less bad manufacturers.

There’s also enough stuff I don’t like about the mac - but the current keyboard is one of the better notebook keyboards available right now, and if you want long battery life, lots of RAM and a lot of CPU power available in a compact device they’re the only manufacturer currently offering that.

Hawke ,

Heh, if you think Lenovo is bad and mac vs Lenovo is a bad choice to have to make…

…what do you put forth as the shining beacon of laptop mfgs? Cos it ain’t Dell, and it sure isn’t HP.

Who else is there?

Draghetta ,

Apple and wait for Asahi Linux to finish their driver support 🫠 don’t know what to tell you man.

I have never tried framework laptops - maybe they’re glorious, maybe they’re junk - but of all the laptops I tried Apple are the only decent ones hardware-wise (and software-wise too if you like osx).

I don’t know who else makes decent laptops nowadays, but Lenovo isn’t it, and most likely won’t be.

possiblylinux127 ,

Or even better have a laptop that can be built from multiple brand parts. I want framework to be a standard.

bitfucker ,

I think the program specifically targets the people that are an active user of framework AND actively attend those events anyway. So being paid by framework doesn’t change whether that person goes to an event or not. That makes a certain sense IMHO since if you are only attending if being paid to do so, then you are not a volunteer.

EccTM ,

What I feel would be acceptable:

If you’re proud of your Framework laptop and want to brag about it, we’ll give you some swag for free that you can show off with when you’re out and about!

What this looked like to me:

If you’re attending a conference we’d be paid to attend, but can’t go to, will you show off your Framework laptop to attendees in an effort to convince them to buy one from us too, and we’ll send you some stickers?

The issue isn’t even what they’re asking for, but how their asking it.

Bitrot ,
@Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Ubuntu has had ambassadors for a very long time, the first is essentially how they did it. Also, local events was mostly things like LUG meetings or actual events in the area.

This seems very poorly conceived and exploitative. Or at the very least, very poorly communicated.

carzian ,

Like many others, I have mixed feelings on this. If anyone is stopping by and doesn’t want to read through the linked forum thread, this is frameworks goal:

This isn’t a program to get people to go to conferences and rep Framework, it’s a program to give people who are already going to conferences and showing off their Framework some swag and opportunities to talk with the team. It’s not assigning work, it’s just saying thank you to people who are excited about Framework and active in the Linux community.

Bitrot ,
@Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

That is how they should have described it right away, nobody would have been upset about it.

colourlesspony ,
@colourlesspony@pawb.social avatar

I think the “Showcasing Framework Laptops” is what rubs me the wrong way. I like the idea of trying to get feedback and learn the need of real linux users but anything that qualifies as marketing should be paid.

savvywolf ,
@savvywolf@pawb.social avatar

I agree there’s a lot of problems with unpaid internships and work and such, but I don’t think this is that bad?

It feels like “hey, if you really like our product and want to show it off, we can send you information and merch, and put you in touch with higher ups.”

I’d complain if Microsoft or Google started doing this, because they are huge megacorps with deep pockets, but Framework seems like a small company that can’t really afford huge marketing departments. If people want to devote their time to a cause they beleive in, more power to them.

They also aren’t doing it with the promise or threat of something, which is an issue with a lot of unpaid work. The people they’re targeting know exactly what they are getting into, and that they are doing it for their own reasons.

sentient_loom ,
@sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works avatar

a cause they beleive in

profitable companies are causes now

Profitable companies don’t get to have “volunteers.” Non-profits and charities get to have those. This is data collection for product development, and advertising for products.

This is a reason for me to not buy a Framework laptop.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

profitable companies are causes now

People want to promote companies with ethical business practices. I don’t understand why that’s such a problem for you.

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

I won’t even volunteer feedback to companies when they ask for it, and they incessantly ask for it.

unexposedhazard ,

Well its not gonna get any better by not supporting the companies that try to do better.

davel , (edited )
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to. I don’t support them or do charity work for them. Corporate brands are not out friends.

nous ,

What non-profit company did you get the computer you are currently using to type these messages from?

davel , (edited )
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

Do you think that’s a clever gotcha? I said, “I don’t put up with for-profit companies any more than I have to.”

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/6bf45c97-9b70-4aab-b533-b7d572adc05b.jpeg

Edit to add: For a free & commercial free & non-profit social media platform with a FOSS focus, there’s a surprising amount of corpo simping going on here.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Edit to add: For a free & commercial free & non-profit social media platform with a FOSS focus, there’s a surprising amount of corpo simping going on here.

So, I suppose, every company should be non-profit, in your eyes? Everyone should just volunteer their time? I’m just wondering how your utopian society is supposed to function?

You’re never going to have free computers. Framework represents the opposite of everything big corpos stand for.

Businesses can be for-profit and still ethical. In fact, the vast majority of them are. It’s only the wildly wealthy and powerful ones that are shit. Taking a stand against them is incredibly naive and ignorant.

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_Realism

https://www.ursulakleguin.com/nbf-medal

☭

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Okay so you’re just delusional then. Glad we sorted that out!

I don’t suppose you work for a profit? Your landlord let’s you live for free in their house? Fuckin Ruth’s Chris steakhouse just says “ah, you good bruh!” at the checkout counter?

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/07a93901-ba13-425c-9ea2-653fc38f2ef7.jpeg

Maybe I should start charging you a monthly fee for access to lemmy.ml.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Quit reposting this shitty meme. It’s not applicable. If you want a society where everyone works for free, you’d better get the ball rolling. Advocating for others to do that while refusing to do it yourself is pure hypocrisy.

Maybe I should start charging you a monthly fee for access to lemmy.ml.

Why would I pay you for something I don’t even use? And you don’t even own? If you want to start your own Lemmy server and charge admission, by all means, go right ahead. But Lemmy by it’s very nature wouldn’t allow for that since there are hundreds of other free servers. You see anyone out there making laptops for free and just giving them away to anyone who wants them? No? What a bunch of assholes!

Lemmy is something people created in their spare time. When they’re not working at their jobs that pay them with money they collect from customers so that they can pay rent and buy food.

This is just such a preposterously insane thing to even put forward.

davel , (edited )
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

Quit reposting this shitty meme. It’s not applicable.

You are literally the kind of liberal smuglord this meme is about.

If you want a society where everyone works for free

I want a society where the capitalist class is abolished, so that it no longer leeches off the labor of the working class.

Why would I pay you for something I don’t even use?

You’re using it right now, or else you wouldn’t be talking to me.

And you don’t even own?


<span style="color:#323232;">$ curl -s https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/site 
</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">>    | </span><span style="color:#323232;">jq -r </span><span style="color:#183691;">'[.admins[].person] | map(select(.name == "davel")) | .[0].name'
</span><span style="color:#323232;">davel
</span><span style="color:#323232;">$
</span>
Zyansheep ,

You are literally the kind of liberal smuglord this meme is about.

Forgive me, but I couldn’t resist the opportunity to engage in some liberal smuglordery :P

I want a society where the capitalist class is abolished, so that it no longer leeches off the labor of the working class.

Very cool goal! I wish you luck. However, to achieve your goals you must be rational and pragmatic. The situation in the context of this thread is thus: we have for-profit company Framework making laptops that are highly repairable, friendly to third party mods, and open source software (all things I hope we all agree are “good”). We also have the rest of the industry, most of which are also for-profit which does not do these things. I view the rhetorically pragmatic choice here, given the assumption that Framework contributes to some higher individual utility compared to anything else, is to support their mission, as opposed to dissing them as that in theory may put people off and they may stay with the less ethical companies instead. Or start your own laptop company that’s even better than framework and then diss them ;)

davel , (edited )
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

The fact that Framework makes nice laptops is orthogonal to anything I’ve said. I might buy one some day. I’m not “dissing” Framework in particular over other capitalist laptop makers. My only specific criticism is in their trawling for free labor from their fan base.

bastion ,

Not really involved in this conversation, but you are literally calling this guy a smuglord while smugly treating him like he’s an idiot.

The way you’re using that meme looks like smug feelgood self-supporting blanket rejection of any argument as being from a ‘smuglord’.

Grow up. Live your communist dream, but if you try to shove it down someone’s throat, particularly in an inapplicable situation, don’t be surprised if you find yourself choking instead.

davepar ,

@bastion @davel
Workers being paid nothing is more of a capitalist dream, is it not?

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Well that’s your prerogative but I’ve no idea what that has to do with this conversation. Nobody should be allowed to do it because you don’t want to do it?

Companies ask for feedback so they can make products people actually want to buy…you have a problem with that as well?

savvywolf ,
@savvywolf@pawb.social avatar

Fix Consumer Electronics

We know consumer electronics can be better for you and for the environment. Unlike most products, ours are open for you to repair and upgrade.

That’s the “cause” that people believe in. And the volunteers that they are looking for are those that think Framework are the way to accomplish it. Realistically, that problem can’t be solved by a non-profit - Materials, logistics and R&D can’t be done by volunteers. So a corporation is the only reasonable choice for the goal they want to accomplish.

I’m sure they would love to be able to pay all the people that will volunteer, but they likely just don’t have the money. So it’s either give volunteers something for helping out, or just do nothing and ignore them.

Creat ,

You might want to actually read the article, cause that’s completely missing the point of the program, and ignoring all context. As with all things, context matters.

It’s a free market though. You can just buy from the wonderful companies that are Dell or Lenovo instead. Don’t try to look to closely at them, or you won’t be able to but a laptop ever again.

sentient_loom ,
@sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works avatar

I did actually read the article and I did not miss the point even a little bit.

teawrecks ,

I think the jury is still out on whether Framework can be profitable. And by that definition, literally asking someone what product you want them to make is data collection.

I’m not a fan of a for-profit organisation having unpaid workers, but I get it if they want to see an otherwise unprofitable, yet passionate demographic. If they can compensate the person in other ways like was mentioned above (merch, contact with decision makers, possibly info on future products) then there is some exchange happening there and maybe that’s worth it to the right person.

Fubarberry ,
@Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yeah, I’m fine with it.

z00s ,

can’t afford huge marketing departments

Then they need to market within their budget. That’s not an excuse.

youtu.be/jVkLVRt6c1U?si=kD1NNv1Sv0K5DFnV

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

Two rules:

  1. Don’t talk to the police
  2. Fuck you, pay me.
Codename_goose ,
@Codename_goose@sh.itjust.works avatar

Your second link is honestly should be a sticky on a lot of communities and I try to always show people that video to illustrate how hard things are for people.

superkret ,

If you’re working for a privately owned for-profit corporation, you’re not a volunteer.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

If you’re not getting paid for that work, you’re a volunteer. That’s literally what a volunteer is.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •