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casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

I generally always tip what I feel is generous if I’m able to, because thankfully I just have the luxury of spare change to blow from being a little more frugile these days, watching my spending and all that jazz. But honestly, if I was smart, and truly frugile, I’d be saving that money by not tipping, but also by making a meal at home instead whenever it’s an option. But I’m willing participating in the machinations of the local service economy whenever I order delivery, or go to a restaurant, or do many things that would involve tipping. That said, retail tipping feels kind of weird except for some specialty shops where it’s totally unnecessary but something to consider when you get excellent service.

But fuck all the profiteers behind all the schemes in the service industry that exploit workers by forcing them to rely on tipping, it’s actually fucking bullshit. Wait staff and delivery drivers can get paid as low as $4/hour once they’ve received some balance in tips, when they should probably be getting around $20/hour and up in most cases. It’s actually third world level.

But nah fam what kind $70 meal we talking? If you paying $70 for a steak, a couple drinks and whatever else at an especially nice place, you bet your fucking ass you’ll tip $17.50 if the food and service is worth it, because you’re spending 1-2 hours at that nice restaurant and your service occupies an amount of man-hours that might otherwise not be well compensated. Actually, maybe 25%/$17.50 is a bit much, it really just depends on the meal and the place. I feel like I would do 15% if service was ok, 20% if good, 25% if great but again it’s all about setting.

TedJ70 ,
@TedJ70@aussie.zone avatar

Why not pay hospitality workers a halfway decent wage, and leave tipping for exemplary service? That’s how it works in the rest of the developed world.

hex_m_hell ,

Because the US is a failed state hiding under a developed world costume.

SkippingRelax ,

That’s how it works in the developed world.

Ftfy

Zibitee ,

Some cities require minimum wage paid toward service employees. This is about $20/hour before tips. They don’t lower their tip expectations because, as you might expect, greed is a thing. You will get treated worse if you don’t tip

formergijoe ,

Look at this guy, paying $70 at a restaurant. How many are you buying for? 5?

pyrflie ,

Probably 2, maybe one at a nicer restaurant. If you’re in California or DC it might be lunch.

ogmios ,
@ogmios@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yea, buying a $70 meal then complaining about money being scarce is kinda… questionable.

mars ,

My bills for two people regularly come out to $50, at normal unfancy restaurants (sometimes even just fast casual). So $70 would be 3 people for me.

Voyajer ,
@Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

That’s a pretty normal 2 person meal nowadays, cheap if for 3. I’m not even in a high cost of living area.

quackers ,

Keep this garbage out of europe please. i see it popping up. I will absolutely refuse to tip a single goddamn soul at this point going forward.

ILikeBoobies , (edited )

Only way you can ensure a living wage is to not take part in it

PeroBasta ,

In Austria often times they expect it because of “good behaviour”. Its not a fix percentage but more pocket chance. Still they are getting a full salary at the end of the month

HerbalGamer ,
@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works avatar

That was a big change for me coming there from the Netherlands. Tipping is a bigger thing here, but salaries are also better and waiters seem to get some level of respect as well.

SkippingRelax ,

I lived in three Netherlands for a few years 10 or so years ago. Service in amsterdam was so bad that sometimes not even American colleagues would tip, and it definitely wasnt a bigger thing. Dutch colleagues were let’s say a bit protective of their hard earbed euros. what has changed?

Remember at the end of a restaurant dinner, we were 20 or so minutes from closing time, big table, one of the waiters dragged a huge rubbish bag from the kitchen along our table which is already pretty bad for my standards, and while doing so he feathered every jacket that was behind the chairs of the people on that side of the table. there was a moment of silence, lots of colleagues visiting from abroad and not used to the lively customer service. Add to that impossible to make a reservation in most places, just show up and queue.

HerbalGamer , (edited )
@HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works avatar

Service in amsterdam was so bad

theres your problem

SkippingRelax ,

Well yeah last i checked it was still in the Netherlands ;)

Obi ,
@Obi@sopuli.xyz avatar

Scotland is a goner, last time I was there all the card terminals had it. Asked a waitress if she would get the tip if I have one and she flushed, mumbled something, looked at the boss and sheepishly said it gets shared. I bet none of the staff sees any of it.

cman6 ,

Which is illegal! If you tip a waiter/waitress then the money must go to them: gov.uk/…/all-tips-to-go-to-staff-under-government…

I mean I’m not sure what you can do other than name and shame the restaurant, and/or boycott it

SkippingRelax ,

I mean I’m not sure what you can do other than name and shame the restaurant, and/or boycott it

I’m against tipping culture so um not endorsing this but… you could give her a 5 dollars/ euros/ sheckles note and thank her for what she did to deserve that?

cashews_best_nut ,

You picked THREE currencies and not one of them is used in Scotland.

SkippingRelax ,

Pints of Guinness? /s

Edit one of those three might not be that far away

funkless_eck ,

Guinness is Irish.

Scottish people are the ones who wear a beret, carry a baguette everywhere on their bicycle and say “mais oui oui”

Fisch , (edited )
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

Tipping is pretty normal here in Germany but not required, no one depends on it. Probably because our minimum wage is actually high enough. Germany’s minimum wage of 12.50€/h is almost double that of the US, which is $7.25/h or 6.76€/h if you convert it.

Edit: I just found out in this thread that businesses don’t even have to pay minimum wage in the US, they just have to pay what’s left for the tips to cover the minimum wage. That’s so fucking stupid, holy shit.

lanolinoil ,
@lanolinoil@lemmy.world avatar

It’s worse than you think – In most US States, you can pay people way under the minimum wage as long as their tips make up for it. So an average waiter might make 2 bucks and hour on paper. If they didn’t get enough tips to reach minimum wage, the restaurant would have to pay them out on top of that, but it’s just this fucked up cultural thing to give restaurant owners free labor that the customers pay for.

CaptnNMorgan ,

If you can’t afford to tip after getting a big steak, you should probably get a smaller steak.

bort ,

If you can’t afford to tip after getting a new car, you should probably get an older car.

fun fact: most people DO tip for new cars. Only the tip is factored in into the initial price, which already includes 50-100% markup, which gives the dealer room to abate.

Draedron ,

If you cant afford to pay your staff you cant run a business.

zerog_bandit ,

Service industry employees have lowkey become the most entitled folks ever after COVID. “We were essential” the fuck you were. Every single god damn place has 18% as the MINIMUM tip. If I see that I legit don’t even tip, and then take my business elsewhere. Absolute height of disrespect.

Edit: Just had a hotel stay, my bed was turned over once. FOR SEVEN DAYS. Guess who didn’t get a single tip?

FeelzGoodMan420 , (edited )

We’re not on the verge of a recession though.

Edit: lol why am i being downvoted? I’m just stating reality.

DicksMcgee43 ,

You’re right, we are far beyond that

zeppo ,
@zeppo@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t really get why the expected percentage went up. 15% was the standard for a LONG time. 20% meant you thought they were great. Now 15 is considered shitty, like an insult, and we’re supposed to do 18 or 25 or 30. Meanwhile prices also went up. Why am I supposed to tip 25% now? Service hasn’t changed.

SaltyIceteaMaker ,
@SaltyIceteaMaker@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Tipping in general should be for a good service or out of convenience. It shouldn’t be expected

pyrflie ,

Tipped wages cover about 35 cents of service per menu item, ie your time at a checkout stand. If you got more than that you need to tip or expect to be ignored.

SaltyIceteaMaker ,
@SaltyIceteaMaker@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

A tip is a bonus for exceptional service. Not something that you have to give. Why should i pay more than the menu lists if i don’t gain any benefit from that? I mean i regularly tip but i will definitely not tip like 20% unless the service was exceptional (i.e. delivering pizza while it’s ≥30°C outside)

Rediphile ,

This is the most made up nonsensical pretend number I’ve seen in a while. 35 cents per menu item? Where did you even get that haha wtf?

Aermis ,

I thought 10% was standard.

JargonWagon ,

It was, and I still tip 10% unless the service was truly exceptional.

iknowitwheniseeit ,

It was in the 1970s.

SkippingRelax ,

Non American so bear with me.why the % would go up? Prives have gone up considerably, 10% now should be like or better than 10% then or am I missing something? Is there a point in the future where someone says 113% was okay in the 2040s but not now?

iknowitwheniseeit ,

It’s basically an artifact of how pay is set. The USA has a system where pay for certain professions is adjusted only by a new law. Since in capitalism the capital class has power over policy and the working class does not, the tendency is to resist increasing salary.

Now for most workers this would simply be untenable, but for jobs that get part of their income through tips the workers can make up the difference by increasing the portion of their income they receive through tips.

So over time the tip rate has increased. It’s actually an interesting proxy for how fucked capitalism has become in the USA. The higher the percentage of cost that workers need to receive semi-formally through tipping, the more the imbalance between capital and labor.

SkippingRelax , (edited )

Still doesn’t make any sense. We all know how the tipping system works, it’s fucked but that’s not the point here.

A fixed % of a restaurant bill in the 70s, 80s or 90s should give hospo workers the same amount of money adjusted to inflation so if 10% was good enough money then, it should be now too.

Hell, I could argue that prices have gone up at inflation rates (that’s pretty much the definition ofvinflation) while salaries have remained stagnant, so a fixed % of an inflated restaurant bill makes hospo workers the only ones that actually have their income adjusted to inflation. Everyone else (salaried) gets a well below merit increase year on year. And that’s even before you take the socially accepted tip from 10% to 25 or 30%

iknowitwheniseeit ,

Imagine in 1979 that 30% of the cost of a meal went to server salaries. Imagine that now it is 15%. Either the server takes a 15% pay cut or that money gets paid directly by the customer as extra tip.

SkippingRelax ,

Honest question, are servers paid a fixed amount of the cost of a meal by their employer, or you are just implying that their fixed amount went down adjusted to inflation like it happened to all other industries?

iknowitwheniseeit ,

Most people who get a tip are paid by the hour by their employers in the US (and everywhere else that I know). Tips are a portion of the cost of the meal, usually.

SkippingRelax ,

So where your saying, in your previous comment that the hour pay hasn’t gone up at all, or it has gone up bit not at the same rate as inflation? That sucks (but then again all workers seem to be impacted by that problem lately, agree that servers might be more impacted due to low wages)

iknowitwheniseeit ,

The federal wage for tipped workers in the USA has not changed since 1991. It remains at $2.13 per hour.

Most states have a higher minimum, but 15 states use the federal value:

www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/…/tipped

The population of those states is about 107 million people, so this is for about a third of the overall US population.

SkippingRelax ,

Got it, it sucks. Really 35 million people need to fight to abolish tips, and get this mess fixed including having minimum wage indexed to inflation or at least reviewed periodically and adjusted. We all love to bash the capitalist here and blame the employer, but really tha change needs to be demanded by the people affected, the workers, or it will never happen.

NoIWontPickaName ,

So at what point do we stop increasing the percentage? 50%, 75%, 100%?

normalexit ,

Service has gotten worse at many places.The servers are still great, but quite a few places have adopted the model of having you scan a QR code, you order online, pay with your credit card plus tip, they have you pick it up at a window, you eat, and at the end you bus your own table. Then they have options like 18, 25 and 30% to guilt you into the middle one. It’s like, damn I haven’t even talked to anyone yet, you’re jumping to the end first

pyrflie ,

Tipped min wage in the US is $2.35/hr, and less in other parts of the world that still tip. The menu price covers about 35 cents worth of service outside of really high end restaurants (and these will invite you not to return if you stiff on the tip). That doesn’t even cover the 4 mandatory visits from staff: seating, orders for 3 max, service, and billing. 15% is the rate for regulars, ie you are in 3+ times per month.

If you can’t afford to pay for service don’t go out to eat, get take out.

Skates ,

If you can’t afford to live on 2.35 an hour, don’t work for 2.35 an hour. Asshole.

pyrflie ,

I don’t. I work for an engineering firm and can afford to pay for service so that when I walk into a restaurant I get seated and asked if I want my usual. That costs money and courtesy.

I also know that when someone else stands at the sign waiting to be seated for 2 hrs that happens for a reason. Typically the one I outlined above.

BirdyBoogleBop ,

So bribes then. You are happy bribing people.

SkippingRelax ,

Hopefully your employer will introduce a new salary framework where you get paid what customers think you should be paid for your engineering services, or not. you seem to have good people skills so that shouldn’t be an issue.

zeppo ,
@zeppo@lemmy.world avatar

I do too well, thanks, but that’s irrelevant. I don’t get what your point is. None of that is anything new. When I worked at a restaurant in the 90s servers made $2.17 an hour plus tips, and it was okay to do 15%. 10% was for below average service, but 20 was if you loved them. 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, always 15%. 25% was considered a really generous tip for great service. Now people expect to 25% though nothing has changed about the business or what waitstaff do.

BreadstickNinja ,

Cost of living has risen far more than minimum wage, which doesn’t keep up with inflation, and business owners are shifting the burden to their customers in the form of tips rather than set menu prices that reflect real costs and pay servers the real wage value of their services. That trend started in the 80s but especially since the recession has become far more pronounced.

SkippingRelax ,

Yes but a restaurant bill has risen more or less EXACTLY at the cost of inflation so if 15%of the bill was okay in the previous decades, it should be okay now.

In fact this system makes hospitality workers among the few that have (the tip part) of their income adjusted to inflation. Everyone else salaried except for CEOs probably only got a 1-4% increase the past few years, not enough to keep up with the increase in cost of blrent, groceries and, well restaurant bills.

jj4211 ,

But menu prices have been increasing, at least matching inflation (from my experience, eating out seems to have even outpaced inflation in other areas).

A place that 5 years ago was $20 for a couple of people to eat was $40 when I went recently, ignoring tip. So a 15% tip went from $3.00 to $6.00, but the register suggested that we should be tipping 20%, $8.00. Also, they no longer let you order at the table, you order at the counter. They no longer bring the food out, they call out your number to come get your stuff. They no longer came out to provide refills, you had to go and ask for them yourself. About the only thing they did ‘above and beyond’ was bus the table after you left. I wouldn’t have even minded all the ‘self-service’, but it was maddening when combined with a suggested tip that was way higher than when it wasn’t self-service.

Not to mention similar tip suggestions for take out, where you take the mess home with you.

dangblingus ,

You’ve been downvoted by people that clearly have never worked in a restaurant. People aren’t entitled to a night out. It’s a luxury. And your slave that brought you all these nice things to your table can’t pay their bills. If they hate it they should quit right? That’s sustainable.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

People also aren’t entitled to tips. Regardless, I’d happily forego the “service” of bringing over a tray of food for a 15-25% discount, especially when “good service” is considered interrupting your meal to ask how it’s going or refilling your water (again, something I can do myself and it’s not like I’m drinking gallons of water).

I typically tip around 20% when I have to go for an occasion, but otherwise I don’t go to restaurants.

jaemo ,

15% is standard, great even. It’s this one weird trick I do. See: how this works is I’m the one with the money which means I’m also the owner of the yardstick that measures average, good and great.

I’m baffled by comments like this. One ought to be empowered to decide if someone has met or exceeded your standards, and to what degree. Letting social pressure dictate that is nonsensical.

vamp07 ,

Yup. The effect for me has been that I simply go out much less often.

Rediphile ,

They went up because customers (on average) agreed to them and approved the higher suggested tip. It’s not anymore complex than that.

If every place that raised those default options instead received lower tips as a result, it would stop. It’s not rocket surgery.

So ya, why do you tip 25% now? Great question. That seems fucking crazy to me.

dangblingus ,

It didn’t. You’re just online too much. There is no “expected” amount. Anything you’ve heard to the contrary is just people bitching online.

zeppo ,
@zeppo@lemmy.world avatar

Why would you assume I got this impression from talking to people online?

WaxiestSteam69 ,

I’ve always tipped 20% for good service and 15% for average or below. I usually don’t tip less that 15% unless it’s just abysmal or I’m picking up a to go order in which case I usually do 8-10%. Several of the restaurants around me have changed from 15% / 20% on the suggested tip to 20% / 25% and a few have even added 30%. And I’ve also noticed the suggested tips are calculated on the after tax amount, and some restaurants that charge a credit card processing fee calculate the suggested tip on that amount. I tip on pretax and pre-fee totals and cap at 20%. If it get worse, my eating at restaurants will start becoming less and less.

Kongar ,

Why on gods green earth would you tip when you’re picking up a to-go order? Insanity! Stay strong - don’t do it!

JayDee ,

Because minimum wage for servers stayed dirt cheap while inflation skyrocketed, and now businesses are fighting to keep servers employed (but still aren’t willing to pay a living wage).

It’s all fueled by cyclical logic where the business refuses to accept that they’re immoral for requiring tipping. Might be legal- it’s still a concious failure of responsibility to short your staff and expect someone else to make up that difference.

JCreazy ,

I just stopped going to places or using services that expect me to tip. I hate the idea of tipping.

Sami_Uso , (edited )

Cook at home, we don’t want you there anyways.

**Gosh I didn’t realize Lemmy was so full of broke assholes hell bent on taking money out of service employees pockets. Very working class of you guys!

NoIWontPickaName ,

Order take-out, all the food, none of the worries

Rakonat ,

Thats the funny part, they still want tips on everything they sell. Tipping just needs to be stamped out and employers made to pay living wages.

TokenBoomer ,

But that’s socialism. /s

Rakonat ,

Here, hold this hammer for me. /s

dangblingus ,

The debit machine is automatically programmed to ask for a tip. Your server or take out bagger didn’t program the debit machine. No one has a gun to your head saying you have to tip on takeout. Servers generally aren’t required to tip out on takeout orders.

PatMustard ,

taking money out of service employees pockets

Doesn’t your employer pay your wage?

dangblingus ,

No. They pay starvation wages. Server wages in the states is like $2.65/hr. “Well if they hate it just quit!” What person in the US could do the intense labor of serving tables and still survive on that little? Who would want to?

PatMustard ,

Do you not have a minimum wage?

Sami_Uso ,

Alot of states in the US have like the opposite of pro rated minimum wage where they actually are paid less than minimum wage because they earn tips.

So like a waitress earns $2.75/hour as opposed to $10/hour because she might make that up in tips within the hour. That’s the thought anyways.

PatMustard ,

So what happens if they don’t make any tips? Surely they still need to make the legal minimum wage?

Rediphile ,

Going anyway and just not tipping is also a completely acceptable and legally protected option. Sort of like saying ‘no thank you’ to the grocery store check out person asking for charity donations or if you would like to sign up for the store credit card.

Again, it’s optional. So people can also say ‘yes’ if they want and that’s cool too I guess. Although tipping is inherently harmful to the server’s baseline wage which is a bit problematic, if people want to tip they can and no one is stopping them. And I won’t give them shit about it unless they specifically inquire about it. Since the whole thing is ‘optional’ after all I let them make their own decisions and if tipping gives them a nice release of serotonin or dopamine or something that makes them feel better, who am I to take that from them.

fathog ,

Just don’t eat out if you don’t want to tip. Tipping culture is fucked but servers are just as victimized as customers.

Rediphile ,

No thank you.

KevonLooney ,

Going anyway and just not tipping is also a completely acceptable and legally protected option.

It’s legal, but not tipping at a restaurant is cheap. It’s also legal for them to ban you from the restaurant, which will probably happen if you give them a diatribe against tipping.

Rediphile ,

While they could definitely ban me and I’d have no problem with that at all, they won’t… because the owners have no incentive to ban me. They make the exact same amount from me whether I tip or not.

I guess if someone went on a big rant that disturbed other customers and caused a loss of sales they may ban them. But otherwise, just quietly playing your bill and leaving, no…not getting banned lol.

PatMustard ,

not tipping at a restaurant is cheap

If you actually believe this then they’ve already got to you. This is Stockholm Syndrome, or the Sunk Cost Fallacy, or good old peer pressure.

rsuri ,

I look at it as Actual price = menu price + lowest suggested tip + $5 tip awkwardness penalty. So a place near me has a $12 lunch-size sub sandwich that’s really good. But they ask for a 15% tip. So rather than just never eat at my favorite sandwich spot, I regard it as a $18.80 lunch and only buy it on rare occasions or when my company is paying.

SuperSpruce ,

Same. I multiply any restaurant price by 4/3 to account for taxes, fees, and tips when determining if I want to go.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

Taxes and fees should included in the price, in civilised countries anyway. That sounds like such a pain.

Rediphile ,

They are included in the price in civilized countries. It is only a very very limited number of places where you can’t hand a cashier $5 to pay for something literally labelled $5 and then walk out.

SkippingRelax ,

I think the guy you replied to is from the US.

NoIWontPickaName ,

I hate American math

ohlaph ,

If I’m getting it to go, no tip. Or just the tip.

PeroBasta ,

You tip a fastfood?

ColeSloth ,

You’re tipping at a sandwich shop? Do they even bring you the sandwich and fill your drink for you?

Rediphile ,

Thanks for subsidizing my $12 sandwiches I guess lol. That sure helps me out! Don’t think it helps the servers much in the long run though.

dangblingus ,

This is a valid choice. What isn’t valid is still going out to restaurants, having a gay ol time, and then refusing to tip your server on principle while the owner did nothing and made a killing.

JCreazy ,

I’m not really a big fan of this rhetoric. People should be able to go to a restaurant and eat without being expected to pay more than what their food costs. They shouldn’t be shamed for not wanting to tip. This becomes an issue of personal morality which is why I just don’t eat out, but I don’t think it’s anyone else’s business except for the person spending the money since it is their money after all. It’s not a customer’s responsibility to make up the pay of a business’s employee. PERIOD. Basically what I’m saying is I don’t go places that expect me to tip but I 100% support people’s decisions to go to restaurants and not tip because that is their right.

CaptainSpaceman ,

Its their right to be a shitty person so you support it?

Damn son. Its one thing to accept a shitty person is shitty, but its a whole other matter to support that shitty person and tell them they should keep doing what theyre doing.

That server is making $2.13 per hour if theyre American. Non-tippers are robbing that server of another table who would actually pay for their service and allow that server to eat and have a place to stay.

Yes, its part of the game. No, I dont like tip culture. Yes, shitty people dont tip. No, I will never condone the idea of stiffing a server who lives off of tips.

JCreazy ,

I find it interesting how you’re putting the blame on the customer and not the employer. You have no problem calling someone a shitty person for not tipping but you’re okay with the practice of a business paying $2.13 an hour to their employees. It should never be the customer’s responsibility to make sure that the employees of a restaurant are paid enough. Your attitude shows how brainwashed people are into defending these restaurants by putting the blame on customers.

CaptainSpaceman ,

I did say I hate tipping culture. Its absolute bullshit and should be done away with.

The owners are absolutely shitty too, I never praised them.

You’re building a strawman and then using it as a whataboutism to try to “gotcha” my argument.

ColeSloth , (edited )

Serving is a low skill, job outside of fine dining. You remember a couple pages worth of menu and you write down what people want and you fill their drinks. It’s not high skilled. It’s not physically hard. A 16 year old can do it well after a week or two of training. Getting $150 in tips for a 6 hour shift and then only reporting half of it on your taxes is a showcase in how stupid it is to tip so much for it.

You’re talking about “oh, poor server that makes $2.13 an hour” but why do you think servers as a whole are vehemently against removing tips and going to a normal pay? They know what skill level their job falls at. They know if they were being paid hourly with no tips they’d be getting paid around the same as fast station clerks, retail workers, and grocers. Making in the ball park of $16/hr (obviously varies by area) and they would actually hate to be making that.

CaptainSpaceman ,

Eh, plenty of servers in Europe are grown ass adults and they dont rely on tips. How do you think that works?

Maybe once service starts declining more than it already has in the US, the customers will start complaining and the corporations will listen and try to pay servers a better wage so they are happier and more inclined to give happy service.

Or maybe they’ll just keep raping profits from the “low-skilled” workers until the only ones who WANT to do the job CANT do the job because they arent skilled enough (hence, the decline of service quality in America as it stands today).

ColeSloth ,

It sounds like you’re trying to argue against what I said, but I can’t actually tell what you’re arguing against.

Phegan ,

I mean, they are paid significantly less than minimum wage. While it’s not your responsibility to pay them fair wages, it’s their bosses, they do rely on tips to survive if you can tip, you should, but you should also advocate for paying service industry workers fair wages.

gibmiser ,

Look at this comment to votes ratio. About 400 votes total and 170 comments! That is an awesome, active community!

JCreazy ,

Tipping is a very controversial subject apparently.

sebinspace ,

The fuck? What kinda bot are you?

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world avatar

25%?

Nope: Get fucked lol

Rediphile ,

I use the same logic to say get fucked to 20% … and 19%… and 18%… and so on. To it’s logical conclusion.

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world avatar

I just tip based on the service I get: If you are shitty, you do not get a tip.

Cold_Brew_Enema ,

Restaurants when they expect a 40% tip after you drive to the store for pickup

dangblingus ,

The debit machine is preprogrammed. Stop looking for problems where they don’t exist.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

You can reprogram it to not do that.

jj4211 ,

A sandwich shop that is only every a pick up counter (not even seating if you wanted to) that has not only a point of sale equipment declaring expected tip (no, point of sale equipment doesn’t lock the operator into demand a tip mode, the operator chooses it), but also a tip jar.

Even if, somehow, it were the case that operators were locked into nagging for tip for some bizarre reason, it would still be a problem.

reversebananimals ,

Who do you think programs it?

Contend6248 ,

Maybe one day we have the technology for a second button. You should’ve tipped the programmer

Or should the customer get the tip for doing the work running around with an order? That’s a question for the future.

Voyajer ,
@Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK98YADi7FU

Harbinger01173430 ,

Or just tell them: I am sorry I didn’t come to visit this country to experience this awful part of the decadent American culture.

ElleChaise ,

Woah there, pardner! Them's fightin' woids.

circuitfarmer , (edited )
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.world avatar

The whole damn system exists to place the burden of a living wage on the customer while the company paying peanuts can claim no wrongdoing. And the really sad part is: it has worked.

Edit: and there are many, many businesses that wouldn’t be in business if they actually had to pay competitive wages on their own. The invisible hand can fix nothing if tipping culture says to throw more and more arbitrary amounts of money at people to subsidize their wages yourself. At some point (I’d argue we’re past it already), the band-aid needs to get ripped off. Only then will we see self-correction. The almost immediate loss of many businesses will likely trigger other actions. It’s already a no-win scenario.

Shenanigore ,

It’s on the customer either way

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, but one way is on the company first and one isn’t. Would prices go up if these places were paying living wages? Most likely. Many businesses would be insolvent because their business model was simply never designed to pay a living wage to employees. Others could remain solvent, but probably not if they continue to take so much off the top at higher positions.

And that’s exactly it: the market never self-corrects if we throw arbitrary money in excess of listed prices to solve was is ultimately an issue of business solvency and ethics. There is no economic theory that would support such an idea in any industry, but here we are.

The sheer number of businesses out of the space might even drive down rents. That’s the kind of thing I mean by “other actions”. But things cannot continue as they are.

None of this is even to mention the sheer number of people in the service industry who are also on government assistance programs. They have to be – none of the blame is on them. But my tax dollars go to that, plus I am expected to pay extra to subsidize their wages with tips. I effectively subsidize them twice while someone reaps the rewards on their yacht. All I’m saying is the yacht people should be taking the risks first. That’s part of being a business owner.

Shenanigore ,

Dude, everyone understands the tipping system, the market isn’t gonna correct if it goes away because you’ll still be paying the exact same amount.

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure what isn’t getting across here.

Customers subsidize wages with tipping. The amount is ultimately arbitrary and allows business owners to avoid costs.

The actual cost of the wages is not arbitrary and should be put up by the business first.

Shenanigore ,

You’re wrong. Is that clear enough?

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.world avatar

Great argument.

Shenanigore ,

Better than yours. The wordiness don’t make it true.

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.world avatar

Show me on the doll where the free market hurt you.

Shenanigore ,

I think you’re confused, I’m not the one complaining.

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.world avatar

Let’s see what Lemmy thinks.

Shenanigore ,

I don’t think a lot of Lemmy understands it doesn’t matter how you are subsidizing the wages, you’re doing it regardless. Like this clown who thinks food will be cheaper if more cash goes through the owner to the waiter instead of straight to the waiter. Regardless of system the customer is paying for everything, not the owner, unless of course his business is failing. Imagine the entitlement required to desire everyone change their model to make things cheaper for you, at a business that is completely a luxury. You could simply learn to cook instead of whining about tipping.

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.world avatar

You could simply learn to cook instead of whining about tipping.

Well I guess the whole restaurant industry doesn’t need to exist then.

Reductio ad absurdum.

Shenanigore ,

I literally said it’s a (unnecessary) luxury so who is being absurd? You? Yes.

Nath ,
@Nath@aussie.zone avatar

Dude, everyone understands the tipping system

This is not true. I’ve visited the USA multiple times and I’ve gotten tipping wrong every time.

the market isn’t gonna correct if it goes away because you’ll still be paying the exact same amount.

This is also not really true. You look at a menu in Australia and the price you see is the exact amount you pay. $20 lunch is $20 on the bill. No added tips or taxes or anything.

For the customer, this system is better.

Saying that same lunch in the USA would ‘have been $14 on the menu in the USA’ would not match my experience. In fact, prices for most things were in the same rough ballpark once the exchange rate was factored in.

Caveat: my last visit was 10 years ago. My experience may be out of date. 15% was considered a normal tip, then.

Shenanigore ,

I’m sorry you’re a moron, and I don’t take financial advice from people who can’t figure out something as simple as tipping protocol. And quit lying, food is definitely cheaper on average in the states, and greater quantity too.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

The food is pumped with filler trash, so the quantity is definitely there, but the prices aren’t as cheap as you think, especially for what you’re getting.

Shenanigore ,

Are you a foreign to the USA trucker who spent a good portion of the last 7 years south of the border? No? I am, and know exactly what I’m talking about, intimately familiar with farm/ranch end prices and also wholesale prices as I now own a restaurant. I’m the rare person who’s worked at every end of the food industry and the middle too, as well as being a frequent customer in 22 states and 8 provinces. and very familiar with currency conversions from all the commodity rates, shipping and ordering. Meanwhile you are some fucking guy saying “nuh uh” who likely needs to go to wikipedia to try describe current American farm subsidy policy.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

The difference is that on slow nights, staff get paid less, which is fucked up.

The business needs to wear the cost, because they reap the rewards, which is the narrative capitalism supposedly is about.

Tipping sucks, I’m glad we don’t have it in Australia.

Shenanigore ,

Oh look, an Aussie that needs you know that. Yes yes, everything is better there, it has to be, why else would y’all spend so much time trying to convince everyone of it.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

Tipping does still suck though, and the way it is in many states of the US, slow business literally means employees get paid less, which is pretty fucked.

Australia certainly isn’t perfect, and don’t let anyone tell you how great Medicare is here because it’s not what it uses to be and slowly but surely slipping into private health insurance hell due to its languishing, but heck, defensive much mate?

I am glad that I don’t have to deal with tipping. Tipping is trash and seemingly many Americans agree it’s trash.

Shenanigore ,

Not defensive, I really don’t care for Australians, they’ve a way of conducting themselves that I find very fucking irritating. New Zealanders i can get along with.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

I’m sorry for my place of birth, and I’m sorry for liking the fact I don’t have to tip because of my place of birth, I guess?

This is just a strange internet interaction, but may I suggest not letting people you’re not a fan of them because of their nationality?

Shenanigore ,

Nah. Yall are cunts and I don’t like you.

spujb ,

another difference, like it or not, is that tipping allows for discrimination.

Black service providers are tipped disproportionately less than white service providers.

hglman ,

Tipping is good bc you van pay the employee directly. What needs to change is that tips need to be mandatory and when tips fall short of a living wage the business must pay pay to make up.

circuitfarmer ,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.world avatar

What advantage does this hold versus the company paying a living wage in the first place?

michaelmrose ,

A business is free to offer mandatory tipping and they do have to make up the difference if its not the minimum wage. The minimum wage could be higher of course.

LucasWaffyWaf ,

What difference is there to you, then, between “employer pays a reasonable living wage to their employees but raises the prices of the food a bit to accommodate” and “employer pays poverty wages, forcing the customers to pay their employees for them and forcing tax payers to pay up when people earning poverty wages inevitably rely on government programs to simply survive?” If tipping is mandatory, the only people that benefit is the employer since they can simply double dip - spend less money on payroll AND force the customer to make up for your lack of willingness to pay competitive wages. Yes, under current law, employers are supposed to make the difference if tips can’t cover at least minimum wage, but that’s not enforced nearly as much as it should be, which puts the onus on the workers being exploited in the first place, and even then minimum wage in this country is embarrassingly unfit for supporting anybody.

The more important question to ask is “why am I expected to pay an employee when the money I already give to a business should cover wages in the first place?”

I’m a tipped employee for my day job. I make a decent base pay, but the tips make up for that in spades during busy seasons. I’ve bought my current car with tip money. Despite this, I fully support getting rid of tips if it meant my livelihood wouldn’t be a gamble depending on factors outside my control, and especially if it meant fewer people had to rely on government assistance and could better provide a livelihood for themselves.

Woht24 ,

Fucking retarded

TokenBoomer ,

I’m against insults, but you made me laugh. 🙏🏻

Cannonhead2 ,

I agree wholeheartedly! Let’s make tipping mandatory. In fact, let’s add it on to the price of your bill automatically. Better still, let’s just add it onto the menu price. Oh hey, we’ve come full circle.

hglman ,

No, it should be a direct payment to the staff.

Voyajer ,
@Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

Why? All that does is burden the employee by complicating reporting their income.

dangblingus ,

Or…and hear me out…RESTAURANTS SHOULDN’T BE ALLOWED TO PAY THEIR STAFF LESS THAN $3/HR!

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