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beebarfbadger ,

Don’t trust unions - they can’t guarantee you benefits. Trust us, we guarantee the most exploitative conditions as long as you don’t organise!

HelloHotel ,
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

That sarcasm is incredably subtle. Those on reddit tricked/paid to promote that sentiment would include your first sentence almost verbatim.

Don’t trust unions - they can’t guarantee you benefits.

rayyy ,

Divided you beg. United you bargain.

HelloHotel ,
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

Absolutely true, godspeed my friend

random65837 ,

Assuming thats a response to me since this app sucks and its hard to tell, its true. Pension funds go to shit and get “borrowed” out of all the time. I like the benefits I get, but I’m not brainwashed either. Its not all positives.

HelloHotel ,
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

Oops, you replied to the wrong post. Whatever client your on, you can switch to a diffrent one easly. Hopefully it makes your life a little easier.

random65837 , (edited )

Exactly, and it sucks for that exact reason!

HelloHotel ,
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

What?

random65837 ,

Fucking autocorrect…

JokeDeity ,

This is what I would call insanity:

forbes.com/…/amazon-responds-to-release-of-leaked…

random65837 ,

Well, they can’t. Let’s be real. That’s a bad angle to argue from. LONG list of all the positives and truths, but don’t use that one unless you very easily want to get shut down and look foolish. I left my last 2 jobs because of the corporate end going stupid and pensions being iffy, both of them have since filed for bankruptcy.

FullOfBallooons ,
@FullOfBallooons@leminal.space avatar

Never forget: If a company doesn’t want you to have it, it’s probably a good for you.

pensivepangolin ,

It really is that simple.

sj_zero ,

Most companies don't want you to drink cyanide, but it isn't good for you. Most companies don't want you getting hurt on the job. Most companies don't want you drinking or doing drugs while using heavy equipment. All these things arent good for you.

I'm not saying to unionize or not, but the logic is fallacious.

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Reasons not to join union:

  1. No guarantee that they will help at all mitigating our blatant exploitation of the workforce
  2. Uh, it is un-american.
DrownedRats ,
@DrownedRats@lemmy.world avatar

The un-american argument always makes me laugh. Ah yes, Unions bad, good thing I live in the U.S.A where Unions aren’t a thing. no siree, you won’t find a single Union here, that’s for sure!

spudwart ,

Correct! They’re un-american in this union of states…

https://media.tenor.com/RuBm_OlDK3MAAAAM/tomato-confused.gif

Holyhandgrenade ,
@Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world avatar

How is this even legal? As a European I can’t understand how anyone falls for this blatant anti-union propaganda. They are obviously beneficial to workers (that’s literally why they exist) and I’ve never had to run anything by my union unless I believe I’m being unfairly treated by my employer.

altima_neo ,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

Free speech I suppose.

Illegal would be then telling them they cannot unionize, or they’ll face repercussions.

American_Communist22 ,
@American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml avatar

europe has just sneakier anti-labor laws. Neoliberals are de-regulating everything anyway.

deur ,

Tf are you on?

American_Communist22 ,
@American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Nordic states are having more far right victories resulting in ‘deregulation’. The same in Germany and France. Do I have to remind you the next ruling party of germany will most likely be an extreme right party?

Lorindol ,

Yes, from a European point of view this is something straight out of a bad comedy sketch. If unions would be bad for workers, why the hell would anyone want to advertise against them?

therealrjp ,

Over the last 11 years since I moved into my current role, my salary has risen by approximately £35k. In addition to this my conditions have improved and I work fewer hours. My yearly negotiated increase has always outstripped inflation and I have only lost one day’s pay due to strike action to achieve these rises.

The company I work for continues to post profits in the billions of £s, despite paying their workers fairly.

I’d say my monthly union dues of <£20 have served me pretty well.

Anyone advocating against a union either stands to lose out by unionisation (ie those at the top that would rather keep their bonuses/salaries as high as possible) or have completely bought in to the capitalist nonsense that is often thrown around about unions.

random65837 ,

or have completely bought in to the capitalist nonsense that is often thrown around about unions.

Don’t start that anti-capitalist bullshit. You can’t be happy about making more money, then bash capitalism. Can’t have your cake and eat it too pal!

Holyhandgrenade ,
@Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world avatar

In a capitalist society, people need money to survive. Capitalists want to hoard all the money for themselves while the poor do all the hard work for as little pay as possible. Unions aim to fix that problem.
There is no inherent contradiction between wanting a liveable wage for your work and criticizing capitalism at the same time.

therealrjp ,

I wasn’t bashing capitalism at all. My comment was directed at the fact that it is often (quite ridiculously) suggested that unionisation and its pursuit to protect workers rights and improve pay and conditions lead to the downfall of businesses. It’s an obvious weapon to try and disuade employees from joining a union by leading them to believe that they might lose their job completely when the union forces them out of business.

It’s pretty obvious that capitalism has its flaws but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the alternatives usually don’t fair well. I don’t disagree with the ideology but I do believe that I am entitled to my fair share, after all, my bills are rising like everyone else’s. Why should my colleagues and I lose out so that a few at the top can fatten their pockets? They don’t pay me anymore than they need to - they compensate my colleagues and I sufficiently to make us do the job. If they pay less, I’ll look elsewhere and they know this by agreeing to the demands of my union.

random65837 ,

Because in many cases they can be. Really depends on your industry, and the Union you’re in. Some are the only way the job is tolerable, sometimes they hold workers back, many times unintentionally but still happens. I’m in trucking, for us, we’re WAY better off with Unions behind us because trucking has VERY outdated regulations and many employers exploit that likes it’s tax code loopholes.

I’m in a right to work state, so people don’t have to join the Union if they don’t want to, you’d be amazed at how many don’t! Many of the ones who don’t are the people in the boomer years who have years of gripes against the Unions, people that spends decades as union workers. I’ve heard a lot of shit, it’s not all bullshit. There’s +/-. Only ignorant people claim otherwise.

HelloHotel ,
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

I can’t understand how anyone falls for this blatant anti-union propaganda

In amarica, there is no words to distinguish red (uncorrupted) and yellow (capitol sympathetic) unions. Their using the distrust their lackies created to ruin all unions.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Important point. We do have some words, I was stuck working for a ‘sweetheart union’ once.

HelloHotel ,
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

Thats useful to know

ThatFembyWho ,

Politics. Most conservatives are anti-union and pro-business in the US.

I work in a “right to work” state, which means you aren’t compelled to pay union dues, even if you directly benefit from one. This is specifically to undermine the power of unions which are overwhelmingly supportive of Democrats. Wooing union support is critical for them (see: Joe Biden in Michigan recently).

It literally is that simple.

random65837 ,

It’s legal because we have free speech in this country. The company can post anything they like as long as it doesn’t meet the definition of Union busting, which (is) illegal. We don’t need to go to our Unions either, just more stupidity.

Holyhandgrenade ,
@Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world avatar

We have free speech in Europe too. Anyway, I originally thought the poster was hanging above a voting booth, but I see now it seems to be some kind of computer for staff to clock in and out of work. Still shitty but not quite as dystopian as I thought.

Mandy ,

im not american so these anti union things are always wild to see, like do these actually work?

moog ,

Yes. I hear people shit on unions every now and again, saying the same bs you hear on anti union propaganda.

random65837 ,

Thats true, but theirs just as much repeated garbage on the other side. People dont think for themselves anymore.

moog ,

Other side of what?

collegefurtrader ,

Yes

GladiusB ,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

Depends on the union. Sometimes they are just there as a mouthpiece for management. Sometimes they fight for worker’s rights.

Mandy ,

but like, in a country that isnt run by companys as hard as usa, the latter is the default. nothing more nothing less. Are unions so busted in america even they cant help but filled with corruption?

jscummy ,

It depends on the industry and honestly I’d be surprised if some unions in your country are not similar or worse. I’m in Chicago, which is one of the country’s biggest union strongholds, and construction unions here are often shitty and corrupt. Unions will bully and fight dirty against competing companies, sometimes even getting in spats between local chapters

Mandy ,

if such a thing is present in my countries unions is so minuscule that its inconsequential, but if fairly confident (no country is perfect but you get my point) my countries isnt even close to whatever hellhole usa unions are

jscummy ,

Might be a difference in the role the union has fallen into. The unions I’m talking about have been given way too much power through cronyism over the years, and at this point act more like a trade association/cartel acting for the businesses against other businesses, not for the workers against management

Mandy ,

See cronyism isjt even possible and very much not allowed in mine and some other countries (can’t speak for everyone of course) And unions as again, other countries as well only have as much power as workers choosing then, no workers? No power Majority of workers use them? Now they finally have the weight they need

That’s what I imagine and hope is the default outside america, or at least it should be

jscummy ,

Yeah my American brain has trouble comprehending a system where cronyism isn’t possible. Here most unions have an associated PAC and are very active with political donations and lobbying

random65837 ,

That place doesnt exist. There are cronys everywhere. Youre falling victim to socialist propaganda where “Everybody is equal”, thats bullshit. Every country on the planet has super huge rich companies, billionaires that have connections, bribes and payoffs.

No different than the " free" healthcare fallacy. Just because its not itemized, peolple convince themselves by they didn’t pay for it. Thats what theyre doing, thats how all the anticapitalist bullshit happens, which is hilarious when its a Union doing it, since hard work paying off and being able to further yourself as a result of that literally being what capitalism is all about.

American_Communist22 ,
@American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml avatar

During and still after the Cold war the US used state intelligence and right wing fanatics to break US labor power. The US is a country with low political intelligence and solidarity because of it.

givesomefucks ,

What union doesn’t elect their union leadership?

CoffeeJunkie ,

Well some stewards are prone to bribing, special treatment by MGMT to turn a blind eye to certain things or back off. Others are competent, but maybe too busy for you. Others are elected because they’re popular or whatever, but as a steward they’re not knowledgeable or brave or effective. There’s lots of ways a union steward can go awry.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

There’s lots of ways a union steward can go awry.

And lots of ways that a union steward can go right?

CoffeeJunkie ,

It tends to be an overall, net positive.

RobertOwnageJunior ,

Yes. Most people believe anything if you tell them often enough.

ricecake ,

these probably don’t change any minds, but unions in general have been so stigmatized they they’re probably reinforcing the views of a fair number of people.

dylanTheDeveloper ,
@dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah but bathroom breaks and not being fired simply because you forgot to smile at the manager

HotChickenFeet ,

Many states ban vote solicitation and signs within 50-200 ft of polling locations. I’m sure it’s only for state+ level votes, but it seems to me like having signs saying to vote NO directly on and adjacent to the voting machine for a legally protected union vote should be not legal…

FFbob ,

My union got me more money in a single year than I will pay in dues for my entire career in at least 3 separate years in the 6 years I’ve been working for my employer.

I get leave each year that is slightly more than 20 percent of my work hours.

Unions are amazing for workers.

Woht24 ,

It’s amazing how anti union the US is. Unionise everything unless you want to be bent over and fucked by the long dick of capitalism.

Cethin ,

My family is from West Virginia. They literally had battles for unions. Unions saved the state for a little while. Everyone I know there is also very anti-union. I don’t know how. This is why history is important, but they won’t teach you these parts of history in school.

random65837 ,

That’s not true at all, you’re clearly not in the US if you think that. It’s also not true that open shops all get fucked. Don’t be ignorant. I got a handful of buddies that work for open shops that get paid more than I do, and have better benefits. I get some perks they don’t clearly, but even with that figured out by the math, some of them do better. All comes down to the company behind it and whether they’re smart enough to give a shit and realize their working are important, or whether they’re shitbags and need a leash on them.

Woht24 ,

Thankfully I’m not in the US, you are correct.

You may know people who are paid more than a union equivalent, that’s the choice of the company. But a union will always help the little guy as has been shown time and time again throughout the world.

Employers paying above and beyond is not the norm, it’s not even the minority. It’s a scarcity. To say what you said above like you shouldn’t unionise because everyone isn’t a cunt, is a very poor view given to you and now you’re propagating their misinformation.

random65837 ,

Employers paying above and beyond is not the norm, it’s not even the minority. It’s a scarcity.

No, its not. That may be the case in your country, but not this one. Unions here are way more about benefits and better working conditions as a whole, some companies pay more, some less. Union jobs here aren’t a guarantee of more money. The profession to top rate is steady, which is good, but theirs open shops here that start people out at higher than other companies top out rates.

Understand that what you know in your country doesnt apply everywhere.

To say what you said above like you shouldn’t unionise because everyone isn’t a cunt, is a very poor view given to you and now you’re propagating their misinformation.

At no point did I say that. Why would I tell somebody not to Unioinize? Dont put words in my mouth.

mikeboltonshair ,

Dues deducted from your pay… yes true… oh no it’s a whopping $20-50 a pay (spitballing a range… I pay $44.49 per pay)

No guarantees on pay, benefits or work rules even though it’s extremely unlikely you won’t get better pay, benefits or work rules using that line of thinking the company doesn’t guarantee that either lol

Typically must go through union, not supervisor or manager… okay for what? I got to my supervisors and managers every day for stuff and even if that is the case so fucking what supervisors and managers don’t have my best interest in mind.

captainlezbian ,

Yeah dues are rarely more than the difference in pay unless they’re busting.

hightrix ,

I’ve never been in a union so please pardon my ignorance. Are fees really close to $50 per work day?

Bert_the_Troll ,

No, per pay period. Mine’s about $42 every 2 weeks.

hightrix ,

Ahhh ok. Thank you! That is MUCH more reasonable. Barely noticeable for most people, I’d guess.

mikeboltonshair ,

Ya it’s not really noticeable especially for all its upsides

random65837 ,

No, paycheck, and that’s really high. I pay $15. Keep in mind apparently a lot here seem to be European and their Unions and jobs aren’t really comparable not the US. Our Union benefits, and theirs seem to be very different.

ThatFembyWho ,

The creepy part is how you’re supposed to turn in anyone who discusses unions or unionizing.

They literally tell you “if you hear someone discussing something against the company’s best interests, say something!”

TwoGems ,
@TwoGems@lemmy.world avatar

How’s it not illegal?

name_NULL111653 ,

Because Amazon can afford lawyers, and people who work for Amazon can’t…

It’s only illegal if the person you hurt is rich enough to sue you…

Adalast ,

Ding ding ding, it is absolutely illegal. If I’m not mistaken the existence of the posters at all is illegal, not just certain parts. But the labor boards won’t go after them since they are one of the biggest employers in the country for now. Believe me, that won’t last. In the next few years they will have the packing centers 100% automated and eliminate the majority of the 950,000 jobs they “provide”.

youtu.be/r2VcA7nMJs8?si=858h0BwcIqavhQDp

name_NULL111653 ,

Exactly what I mean. It’s illegal, but to them it’s not because they’re so rich that, apparently, they’re now above the law…

Shialac ,

murica

Omega_Haxors ,

They used to send the actual military to shoot at people attempting to unionize.

anarchy79 ,
@anarchy79@lemmy.world avatar

Crazy that they are using the same tactics to hinder unionizing that they used a hundred years ago.

Omega_Haxors , (edited )

Never forget when Amazon called the guy who organized a strike “inarticulate” even though his speaking talent was literal poetry.

For those of you unaware, that was a dogwhistle. The strike leader was black.

JokeDeity ,

I thought this was against the law?

bhamlin ,

Passive posters like this aren’t. Actively intimidating potential members is. And interfering with a vote is super illegal.

But posters aren’t.

LilDestructiveSheep ,
@LilDestructiveSheep@lemmy.world avatar

As long as you don’t get caught, there’s no one to blame. That’s what they do.

Ryumast3r ,

Amazon denied that they were doing it as a company (of course they did).

Luckily, the union won this election and it was certified in january of this year

LilDestructiveSheep ,
@LilDestructiveSheep@lemmy.world avatar

100% they did.

random65837 ,

There’s nothing illegal about putting up a poster with nonsense on it. People like to over react on those. Putting up a question isn’t Union busting.

13esq ,

In the UK, any prejudice towards union activities is illegal.

As a business owner, you could say “I don’t like unionism” etc. But you couldn’t ask your employees to grass up fellow colleagues for talking about unionism.

random65837 ,

Yup, pretty much the same here. Most of the things that people flip out about are super vague, harmless, and wouldn’t convince anybody of anything.

BrazenSigilos ,

I did a seasonal stint at a Target Warehouse recently, and while there wasn’t anything blatantly antiunion, the effort is absolutely there. There is alot of talk about open door policies, open communication lines between management and workers, and a culture of “trust”. My emphasis, their words. They also have a standing policy that, out of context, is very odd. Knowing what I do about antiunion measures, it’s very blatant. They have a fiercely reinforced policy that there is to be no distribution of any papers or solicitation of any kind during work hours or on Target property. They attempt to rationale it with an example of people “asking for kids fundraising orders or public funding websites”. Personally I’ve never known those to be even a mild distraction at any workplace.

PutangInaMo ,

I understand not doing it during work hours, but it should absolutely be allowed to happen on the property.

Prior_Industry ,

The fact they are putting these up should let you know it’s something you want to join

tvbusy ,

Agree. I don’t understand why Amazon thinks this will help, like “hello people, Union is a thing that we’re really afraid of, haven’t you heard?”

Raz ,

Because they want to plant that seed of doubt and fear.

Might not work for you, but unfortunately there are a lot of naive or insecure folks out there.

gmtom ,

If you can think critically, sure. But large amounts of the population are dumb as bricks and will believe this literally just because it’s on a poster.

Shialac ,

People are so used to getting gaslit by megacorps, they just eat that shit up unquestioned

asynts ,
@asynts@lemmy.world avatar

I do feel like this is smart. The first two points are whatever but the third one “typically you must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager” makes it sound like there is a lot of bureaucratic overhead to it. People who are undecided could feel that it’s too much effort.

DrownedRats ,
@DrownedRats@lemmy.world avatar

Obligatory, “if a company is trying to convince you you don’t need a union, you need a union”.

MrTulip ,

Unions are like condoms, in that regard.

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