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lemmy.world

tedu , to technology in Google is losing it

So weird, that's not what I see.

voracitude ,

On the one hand, generative AI doesn’t have to give deterministic answers i.e. it won’t necessarily generate the same answer even when asked the same question in the same way.

But on the other hand, editing the HTML of any page to say whatever you want and then taking a screenshot of it is very easy.

Aatube ,

That seems like a Wikipedia capture for the wrong page instead of AI.

otter ,

It could also be A/B testing, so not everyone will have the AI running in general

credo ,

It’s not A/B testing if they aren’t getting feedback.

otter ,

Wouldn’t they be? They could measure how likely it is that someone clicks on the generated link/text

credo ,

Just because you click on it that doesn’t make it accurate. More importantly, that text isn’t “clickable”, so they can’t be measuring raw engagement either.

IllNess ,

What this would measure is how long you would stay on the page without scrolling. Less scrolling means more time looking at ads.

This is the influence of Prabhakar Raghavan.

RvTV95XBeo ,

Just because you click on it that doesn’t make it accurate.

Given the choice between clicks/engagement and accuracy, is pretty clear Google’s for the former is what got us into this hell hole.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yup, if you have to repeat your search 3 times, you’re seeing 3x the ads. If you control most of the market, where are your customers going to go? Most will just deal with it and search more.

halcyoncmdr ,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

Google runs passive A/B testing all the time.

If you’re using a Google service there’s a 99% chance you’re part of some sort of internal test of changes.

Cheradenine ,

There are actually a bunch of these. Adding glue to pizza sauce (scraped from an old reddit post), replacing Blinker Fluid every two years, etc.

arstechnica.com/…/googles-ai-overview-can-give-fa…

QuadratureSurfer ,
@QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world avatar

Technically, generative AI will always give the same answer when given the same input. But, what happens is a “seed” is mixed in to help randomize things, that way it can give different answers every time even if you ask it the same question.

jyte ,

What happened to my computers being reliable, predictable, idempotent ? :'(

QuadratureSurfer ,
@QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world avatar

They still are. Giving a generative AI the same input and the same seed results in the same output every time.

jyte ,

Technically they still are, but since you don’t have a hand on the seed, practically they are not.

QuadratureSurfer ,
@QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world avatar

OK, but we’re discussing whether computers are “reliable, predictable, idempotent”. Statements like this about computers are generally made when discussing the internal workings of a computer among developers or at even lower levels among computer engineers and such.

This isn’t something you would say at a higher level for end-users because there are any number of reasons why an application can spit out different outputs even when seemingly given the “same input”.

And while I could point out that Llama.cpp is open source (so you could just go in and test this by forcing the same seed every time…) it doesn’t matter because your statement effectively boils down to something like this:

“I clicked the button (input) for the random number generator and got a different number (output) every time, thus computers are not reliable or predictable!”

If you wanted to make a better argument about computers not always being reliable/predictable, you’re better off pointing at how radiation can flip bits in our electronics (which is one reason why we have implemented checksums and other tools to verify that information hasn’t been altered over time or in transition). Take, for instance, the example of what happened to some voting machines in Belgium in 2003: businessinsider.com/cosmic-rays-harm-computers-sm…

Anyway, thanks if you read this far, I enjoy discussing things like this.

jyte ,

You are taking all my words way too strictly as to what I intended :)

It was more along the line : Me, a computer user, up until now, I could (more or less) expect the tool (software/website) I use in a relative consistant maner (be it reproducing a crash following some actions). Doing the same thing twice would (mostly) get me the same result/behaviour. For instance, an Excel feature applied on a given data should behave the same next time I show it to a friend. Or I found a result on Google by typing a given query, I hopefully will find that website again easily enough with that same query (even though it might have ranked up or down a little).

It’s not strictly “reliable, predictable, idempotent”, but consistent enough that people (users) will say it is.

But with those tools (ie: chatGPT), you get an answer, but are unable to get back that initial answer with the same initial query, and it basically makes it impossible to get that same* output because you have no hand on the seed.

The random generator is a bit streached, you expect it to be different, it’s by design. As a user, you expect the LLM to give you the correct answer, but it’s actually never the same* answer.

*and here I mean same as “it might be worded differently, but the meaning is close to similar as previous answer”. Just like if you ask a question twice to someone, he won’t use the exact same wording, but will essentially says the same thing. Which is something those tools (or rather “end users services”) do not give me. Which is what I wanted to point out in much fewer words :)

kokesh OP ,
@kokesh@lemmy.world avatar

When you do this query, won’t you get the same?

thegreatgarbo ,

If you read the arstechnica article Google is correcting these errors on the fly so the search results can change rapidly.

RecursiveParadox ,
@RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world avatar

I too am skeptical, but there have been so many of these the last few days… is it just a new meme?

lucas ,
@lucas@fitt.au avatar

@RecursiveParadox @voracitude it absolutely has become a meme, there are (or were) a bunch of repeatable results.

Google is probably whack-a-mole'ing them now, because "google's AI search results are trying to kill people" has entered the collective consciousness.

vimdiesel ,

I have no doubt some of their AI answers have antivax and injecting bleach recommendations from all over the web as part of their training regime.

MrScottyTay ,

I saw this a few days ago too when I went to see the film and wanted to check who some people were in the film.

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar
casmael ,

Yup me too 🫡

Smc87 ,

Zoop

essteeyou ,

👉😎👉 Zoop!

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Me too. But a different person on my same network got a clean result.

yukijoou ,

A/B testing moment

Hobbes_Dent ,

It’s, uh, not what I remember.

  • old
Nobody ,

Works on my machine.

AdamEatsAss ,

Oh perfect. We’ll just point production to your machine.

cerement ,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar
sigmaklimgrindset ,
slaacaa ,
dutchkimble ,

But the real question is, is the colour blue that you see, the colour blue that I see?

Psychodelic , to aboringdystopia in Reserve your home now!

It’s definitely better than naming it after the people they killed that used to live there

gregorum ,

New York enters the chat

HawlSera , to funny in I can't believe it tastes different

I was trying to build a homemade box with wood and nails, except instead of wood I used fucking Uranium, now I have cancer. DIY projects are a scam.

grue ,

I wish idiots making stupid substitutions were normally that self-correcting!

henfredemars , to insanepeoplefacebook in Got thrown out of her GP's office for antivax nonsense.

I don’t understand a person who goes to a professional to disregard their opinion.

ThePyroPython ,

Ah, so you’ve never had a job as a subject matter expert speaking to a member of the general public i.e. GP, Pharmacist, Mechanic, IT Technician, etc.?

MrJameGumb ,
@MrJameGumb@lemmy.world avatar

Every goddamned day:

Me: I think I see the problem here ma’am, it appears you haven’t updated your phones software in (checks notes) literally forever.

Her: no… I don’t think that’s the problem. Can’t you just adjust the towers?

Me: (quietly dies inside a little)

Soggy ,

Normalize calling people fucking idiots to their stupid faces.

AtariDump ,

Like Gordon Ramsey.

TheFriar ,

deleted_by_author

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  • wander1236 ,
    @wander1236@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I think you may have misread

    Railing5132 ,

    Unless I’m misreading something, I think people missed your /s

    rayquetzalcoatl ,
    @rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t think the person you’re responding to was saying that the person who got banned from their GP was the subject matter expert. I think you’re both saying the same thing and you’re definitely both right, this person (screenshotted in the OP) is a total moron 😂

    Alexstarfire ,

    Man, I once got asked to help someone pick out a decent laptop. They ignored everything I said and got whatever they wanted.

    I don’t care what they picked. I was upset that my time was completely wasted.

    Delphia ,

    You dont need to be an expert.

    People have no idea about the complexity and scale of the world. Just how complicated the logistics chain for something like Kentucky Fried Chicken is… “hOw DoEs A cHiCkEn ShoP rUn OuT oF ChIcKeN!?!”

    Like… real fucking easy.

    acceptable_pumpkin ,
    kromem ,

    The best is when you are a consultant, as people will actually bring you in at great expense or fly in from around the world to disregard your opinion.

    Now I just go on Lemmy to get my opinion about those same things (and others) disregarded from the comfort of my toilet.

    twack ,

    I mean, I can’t imagine that someone would spend enough money to fly in a consultant just to ignore them. I don’t think that actually happens.

    /s

    jasep , to mildlyinteresting in Words to (almost) live by

    Space is big. Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.

    dalekcaan ,

    In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

    Dvixen , to insanepeoplefacebook in I just can't even.
    @Dvixen@lemmy.world avatar

    Wait for the sequel:

    “I live in an iron lung and that’s ok!”

    mojofrododojo ,

    Yeah, or living with the knowledge that they infected friends who couldn’t get the vaccines for medical reasons.

    dyathinkhesaurus ,

    And the followup, “I’m blind because measles, and that’s ok!”

    theangryseal ,

    I have a distant cousin who was totally destroyed by measles. According to her mom, she was 6 years old and a very bright kid, very eager to learn. Her siblings recovered, but she didn’t. I mean, she recovered as far as surviving, but she’s in her late 50s now with the mental capacity of a toddler.

    Her family lived in a one room shack deep in Appalachia from the 50s through the 80s. Going to the doctor wasn’t something they did unless they were dying. They managed to get her to the hospital once it became clear she likely wasn’t going to make it.

    I met her in the early 2000s and different family members take turns caring for her. She talks but it’s mostly just going with what a person says. “Sheila, I heard you were a millionaire!” “Yeah, yeah. I got millions dollars. Yeah.” “Can I get a few thousand?” “Sure, yeah, sure, a few thousand. Yep. Mmhmmm.”

    Her brother used to mess with her at the store her mom worked at. “Hey Shiela, you hate that ugly bastard that just walked in here don’t you?” “Yep. Mmhmm. I hate that ugly bastard.” “Awww Sheila, you hate me and think I’m ugly?” “Noooooooo. Nuh uh. Nooooo!” “Yes you do, now tell him!” “Yep, mmhmm, I do.”

    I hate that happened to her.

    BonesOfTheMoon OP ,

    That’s so very sad.

    spittingimage , to linux in Finally made the move
    @spittingimage@lemmy.world avatar

    Following the ancient traditions, I’m here to tell you that you picked the wrong distro. 😉

    But welcome aboard.

    Iceblade02 OP , (edited )

    Oh undoubtedly!

    Hopefully my partitioning was decent though, so distro-hopping shouldn’t be too hard if I feel like switching (or even running different distros side-by-side?)

    I was personally drawn to it because: it’s not Ubuntu; ButterFS seems like a nice safety net; KDE Plasma is sexy AF; noone seems to have anything particularly horrible to say about it.

    Why is your chosen distro (obviously) the superior choice?

    spittingimage ,
    @spittingimage@lemmy.world avatar

    Mint for gaming, because it’s nice to have a rock-solid OS that doesn’t need much beyond updates in terms of maintenance. Arch for hobby tinkering, because voiding warranties is fun.

    Bookmeat ,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • spittingimage ,
    @spittingimage@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m sure it’s great but I’ve had no issue on Mint.

    Iceblade02 OP ,

    Mint was 2nd in line on the choice list, so not far off!

    joby ,

    I’ve been running opensuse for years now. It’s great. Welcome aboard

    ichbinjasokreativ ,

    Btrfs does not stand for butterFS lmao

    Iceblade02 OP ,

    But b-tree file system sounds way less fun!

    It’s already cemented itself as butterfly system in my mind lol

    dan ,
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    “ButterFS” is one of the accepted pronunciations though.

    Kidplayer_666 ,

    Fedora. Because it’s the best supported distro on Apple hardware :P (running asahi here)

    aktenkundig ,

    Yeah, those are the same reasons I chose tumbleweed. Plus the rolling release.

    I hope you made your system partition large enough. I had about 20G for / (excluding /home), which used to be enough for kubuntu, but quickly ran out of space on tumbleweed. I assume because of the Btrfs snapshots.

    I reinstalled tumbleweed on a larger partition. Then couldn’t install the proprietary codecs, because of an error I couldn’t resolve.

    Installed it a third time recently, now it runs smoothly.

    Iceblade02 OP ,

    It suggested 200GiBs for root, which seemed a bit excessive but I didn’t argue

    FutileRecipe ,

    With most PC things (RAM, disk space, CPU, etc etc), too much is better than too little, provided you have the resources.

    InstantWeasel ,

    If you intent to run virtual machines with virt-manager (especially if you keep the default path), that 200 Gb will seems short a bit :-)

    mikyopii , to linuxmemes in You shouldn't ignore it
    @mikyopii@programming.dev avatar

    Bailing out. You are on your own. Good luck!

    DmMacniel ,

    Well fuck…

    bruhduh ,
    @bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar
    Nougat , to funny in No bouncer at this club

    This seems like it could end badly.

    Imgonnatrythis ,

    You sound like a cat hater.

    thorbot ,

    Raccoons have been known to kill cats. Sounds like a cat lover.

    something_random_tho , (edited )

    Sir, this is !funny

    thorbot ,

    No way in frigid hell would I let my cats near a raccoon. Fuck the fuck no. They’ve got rabies and all other manner of nasty shit. Don’t care what sub it is, this is negligent.

    cyr0catdrag0nz ,

    These are allegedly strays all coming in off the same street. Cat food is probably better for this raccoon than garbage, and it’s nice to see a human presumably offering a safe alternative and looking out for the wildlife IMHO. Those potential diseases are at least somewhat our fault.

    liv ,
    @liv@lemmy.nz avatar

    It’s a stray cat though?

    Flightbird386 ,

    Pepé Le Pew?

    Fleppensteijn , to lemmyshitpost in As a long-time user hearing YouTube wants to play extra ads when I pause a video
    @Fleppensteijn@feddit.nl avatar

    I accidentally watched a YouTube video on a browser without blocking. It started with an ad. I thought I’d just endure it this time. Then another ad. OK, just this time then. Suddenly, another ad in the middle of the video. I gave up. Who’d have the patience to sit through this?

    Then there’s Google’s habit of completely ignoring the browser’s language settings so I have to sit though ads I don’t even understand.

    spikederailed ,

    Then there’s Google’s habit of completely ignoring the browser’s language settings so I have to sit though ads I don’t even understand

    I used to occasionally watch YouTube on my lunch break when I would go into the office. I loved getting ads in Spanish, the office was in Greenville,SC not a large Spanish native population. I have premium on my account but don’t like signing in personal account on work machines.

    rasakaf679 ,

    Ad blocker?

    bane_killgrind ,

    That is actually ideal

    I had to tailor my do not recommend and not interested in this subject clicks until I was left with the one advertiser that I’m actually interested in, and that’s basically low voltage communication mux devices…

    Belastend ,

    That feature still works for you? I used to be able to skip ads on the ad by blocking them. Now the ad just finishes playing AND pops up again during the next ad break.

    volvoxvsmarla ,

    What I think is so unfair is that if I actually sit through one ad I don’t get rewarded and fast forwarded to the video, no. I’ll get a second ad that, if I am lucky, I can skip after 5 additional seconds. Or it’s an unskippable one. That’s not fair. I could have skipped the first one but I gave you that, I gave you that time of my life, now give me something back!

    TheFriar , to insanepeoplefacebook in Sovcit has a statement.

    “It says they owe me money in these documents!! Now…if anyone could actually point out where it says they owe me money in these documents, I’d really appreciate it…”

    Classic

    BonesOfTheMoon OP ,

    The files section of their crazy groups is a thing of absolutely bonkers beauty. It’s like their templates to submit all their lunatic forms.

    nucleative , to aboringdystopia in Get rid of landlords...

    Set some limits. Each person can own one primary residence and x number of secondary dwellings. Each additional dwelling is taxed at a higher rate than the one before.

    People can still buy themselves a house and maybe another couple houses or condos for their family or investment.

    But big landlords can’t profitably buy up neighborhoods then crank up the rent. Or perhaps they can own them, but they’re required to be non-profits and expenses and rents are highly controlled relative to income in the area.

    It’s a tough problem to solve though… Huge apartment buildings do have economies of scale that permit high density living.

    And property owners who don’t sell or develop their land at all because there’s not enough incentive are a big problem in other parts of the world.

    Kacarott ,

    I really like the idea to tax each house successively more. And the money made from these taxes could specifically go to the government buying houses and turning them into social housing, or perhaps providing big discounts for first home buyers.

    JunglisticFunkateer ,

    How about communal housing like in Austria? Not sure what’s the proper name in English.

    Apepollo11 ,

    The trouble is that ratcheting up the tax on additional homes won’t discourage anyone - the additional costs can just be passed on to the renters.

    I’d suggest making it illegal for companies to own residential property for longer than 12 months.

    Hopefully this would free up enough homes to bring prices back down.

    Szyler ,

    “can be” passed to the renters, but in a free market someone else can do that for cheaper if it is their second home vs their 20th.

    Each successive property is less and less profitable the more you have, compared to others that don’t have as many.

    Apepollo11 ,

    But this is exactly the point - the market isn’t free, it’s being controlled. Primarily by companies that are buying up as many properties as they can.

    Szyler ,

    As long ad there are at least two companies in an area, it will be less profitable for every extra property versus your competitor. That at least makes hoarding harder, as anyone can come in to out compete the two duopolies as their first will be way more profitable than the established’s 11th. In turn, keeping prices down, scaled by the increase in taxes per extra property

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’d even settle for a law saying that a single corporation cannot own more than one house, duplex, triplex, apartment building (or whatever) in one city. If you want to have a real estate empire across America, fine. You can have your empire be one building per city.

    Zink ,

    That wouldn’t work unless you also limited the number of corporations an individual can own. The property owners will just have one property in each company, but they will own like 50 LLCs.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I wouldn’t have a problem limiting that either.

    Zink ,

    Same, but FrEeEEeeEeEeDoM!

    See, things like bodily autonomy and right to exist in general are negotiable, but if you try to limit what one man can own, you’re definitely one of them commies!

    Emma_Gold_Man ,

    Huge apartment buildings can still be done with individual units being owned rather than rented. They already exist - they’re called condominiums.

    grrgyle , to lemmyshitpost in Bro visited his friend

    It’s finally happening for me. I’m not understanding esoteric meme content 🥹

    ObviouslyNotBanana OP ,
    @ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t understand it either

    funkless_eck ,

    person A, left, describes a normal social interaction, highlighting their social ability

    person B, right, responds in internet meme parlance, highlighting their social ineptitude

    grrgyle ,

    I guess I’m not so out of touch that I don’t get the point of meme exchange, I just don’t get the actual meme references.

    Although I think the last one must be a downstream tier 2 or 3 redpill même

    funkless_eck ,

    yeah, red pilled from matrix via “manosphere”

    and

    video game minmaxxing -> “looksmaxxing” 4chan circa 2015 and on from there

    RaoulDook ,
    niktemadur ,

    I don’t know what’s going on, and I kind of like that dizzy feeling.

    x4740N , to lemmyshitpost in When you donate, do you ever think of the person that gets your blood and how high their hospital bill will be?
    @x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

    No, because I don’t live in america and the country I’m in does fairly well with healthcare and other social areas

    uis ,
    PoolloverNathan ,

    It does narrow out America, at least.

    uis , (edited )

    Barely half. Even less then half of America.

    EDIT: nope, entire america as original comment says

    x4740N ,
    @x4740N@lemmy.world avatar

    No, because I don’t live in america

    uis ,

    Oh, right. Crossing out two continents. Well, that leaves with 4 continents, but one has no countries, so 3 continetns. Eurasia, Africa and Australia. Still almost entire world.

    ScruffyDucky , to mildlyinfuriating in They really want people to RTO

    Better than office rotting

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