Such a beautiful idea; after a long, parched stretch of time where you aren’t sure if your water supply will last you long enough to survive, the sky opens up and the rains finally fall. Your saved!
What the heck does blessing the rains do? Extra damage against the undead?
I used to play an MMO called Shards of Dalaya that was a modified EverQuest. Anyway, Felwithe, the High Elf town, was named Athica in it and there was a server event where there was a raid there. One of the comments in chat was “I bless the raids down in Athica.” Always thought that was clever.
If they can fill the positions at that rate then they should be happy. They can increase prices since consumers don’t tip anymore and pocket the difference.
If you are correct, then the owners wouldn’t be fighting this.
The extra money comes from the customer no matter the system
Correct but with a tipping, the onus is on the consumer and the most affected would be the worker should the customer not have enough “compassion”… The owner has little to no risk and often even steals from employees
With a livable wage and no tipping system, the owner is mandated to pay a proper wage. They may choose to raise prices but then the onus is on them and also the risk. If they raise prices too much, they’ll lose clients
Not the person you replied to, but I do think it’s a fair comparison, most are operated by a buy product sell product to customer system. Take retail for example there is nothing in a restaurant environment that retail isn’t having to do at store level, because it’s still buying products with the intent to supply it to the customer base. You still have to deal with the same mechanics still have to deal with waste you still have to deal with pricing for the consumer you still have to deal with your wages, so my question is how is the restaurant industry not the same.
This of course is also not including the majority of the other countries that do not use our system and seem to be handling it just fine.
As a consumer I would much rather have to deal with a higher menu price with the sign that saying tips not required then have to deal with trying to figure out how much the transaction is going to cost plus whatever the tip is going to be which seems to be getting higher and higher. Plus it also helps the employee out because if they’re in a lower end restaurant that isn’t getting many customers or they get assigned a crappier area, they don’t have to keep track themselves to make sure they’re reporting to their employer “hey I didn’t actually make minimum wage this week so you’re going to have to pay the difference” it also removes a lot of volitily in terms of how much you’re actually going to get paid
Ive worked basically every position from busser and expo all the way to exec chef and gm and am currently a bartender. I can sayy with first hand knowledge that wages go down when switched from a tipped system to a non tipped system.
I guess first hand knowledge of the industry counts for nothing when a bunch of tech bros on lemmy know more than me.
Edit: makes me sad that people who want worker reform would want to support owner suppression of wages.
I know it doesnt fit your neat little box, but it is facts.
So go ahead and explain exactly where thr money is lost. Does the restaurant make less money now? Is an owner incapable of paying their employees the equivalent of what they made with tips?
You said you know all of this so intimately, so lay it out for us idiots.
In our current system, customers almost directly pay wages for servers and chefs, and it stays tied to menu prices. Thus, wages go up when prices go up.
In this suggested system, you trust the ownership class to raise wages for some reason because that works fantastically in the United States.
Im not sure why you’re suggesting that because the capitalist class will always, always, always bleed whatever they can dry. You know that, i know that the railworkers in the us know that.
Like come on, use your tiny tiny brain that apparently can’t multiple 50 times .2 and think about this for a second. This will and has absolutely led to wage suppression because they will absolutely not raise wages once they are set.
It’s crazy to me that so many people on a sub called “work reform” are advocating for the ownership class and lowering wages. Like, why do you think we’re all here???
Fuck.
The ideal situation would be unions, but no one here has suggested that for some reason, maybe its because no one in this conversation, with the exception of myself, has ever stepped foot onto a restaurant floor with intent to work outside of the one time they washed dishes at an applebees when they were 16.
I feel like im taking fuckin crazy pills with the amount of capitialist bullshit im reading here.
People can’t afford food anymore let alone the 18-25% tips on everything. It was easier before the recent insane rise of inflation, but the increase of food prices has applied to restaurants, too now since they need to buy the more expensive food plus make a profit. Or maybe they’re just being greedy, too, idk. But point is, every place has seemed way too expensive to eat out at lately. That’s before the tips. Then, adding on tips and having to do math at your meal every time when you’re already stretching your budget every time you go out, plus suggested tips going up (from 15 to 18, to 20, to 22 and even higher now), and other countries not dealing with this, and I think it’s making people even more tired of the tips bullshit.
People in the US are trained to think themselves as consumers before workers, which is a big problem, but in this case I think the aggravation is understandable. And it’s weird they work different than basically every other industry. If wage suppression is a problem after, then they’re just in the same boat as the rest of us, and we can all work on it together. Probably with unions.
We aren’t advocating for the owner class. We are not responsible for how ownership responds to our actions.
Just because an action might have negative effects for the works aside from the positives does not mean its a bad idea.
The whole point of this is to pressure the owner class to pay a fair wage to their employees. Of course the owner class will attempt to defend their position, which likely means putting their workers into undo hardship.
People are tired of playing games. Pay what someone is worth, and dont make them jump through hoops to get it.
I don’t think anyone is saying we need to not allow tipping, just stop the stupid idea that restaurants can pay less just because an employee is tipped. They shouldn’t be reliant on the good will of people or the social pressure to tip, that should just be an extra.
To me I’ve never understood why sit-down restaurants should be looked at any differently to any other business. Why can’t the actual price just be listed on the menu?
Like, if we’ve collectively decided that the actual price is 20% higher than what is listed, then let’s just treat this like every other profession and raise prices by 20%.
Why are people taking orders and carrying food special? Other customer-facing positions generally don’t get tips. Chefs (who make the food!) generally don’t get tips.
Just pay the waitstaff a fair wage and quit the tipping!
I’ve worked in a number of places as a chef (from low to high end) and that was never the case anywhere I worked. To be fair, it’s been almost a decade though, so maybe I’m out of date.
Not wrong. The local markets i have experience with are the most populated locations in the United States. Portland, chicago, New york, miami, seattle, la, sf, atlanta.
I would imagine living in hondo, tx sucks ass but that’s not because of tipping.
Are you saying you think tips should be banned? Like if I offered someone a tip and they accept it should they be in trouble? Cause that’s what I mean when I say no one is saying tipping should be not allowed.
I’m not sure it would be possible to change the culture any other way, since it’s so entrenched.
The only restaurants I know of that were able to successfully transition to a less toxic business model for servers did so through a combination of paying servers a fair base wage ($20+ an hour) and banning tips.
Culture is tricky in that it’s ‘sticky’ and often takes a lot of effort to change. Having a policy like ‘tipping not required’ would still lead to the vast majority of customers feeling obligated to tip because not tipping carries with it such a strong implication of being greedy/stingy.
I should mention that this all mostly applies to the US and that there are plenty of countries with flourishing hospitality industries where tipping is virtually nonexistent (or even seen as insulting).
I just don’t see the harm with leaving it not banned. At least for me personally the problem with the culture comes from the fact that servers rely on it to make a living so if you don’t do it you’re denying them that. So if you fix that problem and pay a liveable wage and just allow tips as an extra then sure they might still see someone not tipping as stingy but atleast now it’s not impacting their ability to make a living directly so they can’t be as justifiably angry.
Cause atleast personally I haven’t worked in the service industry but I have worked minimum wage at a grocery store and I remember they told us we couldn’t accept extra money from customers which I always thought was dumb. I wasn’t expecting people to give me extra money and it was pretty rare that it happened but occasionally a nice person would come through and offer me some extra money for helping them and I thought it was dumb I had to turn that down. It didn’t make me think less of the people who didn’t do that, just would have been a nice extra bonus to help me out.
I haven’t seen anyone say it should be banned, just not required because the person isn’t making enough money to live off of just the wage they’re paid. I agree it shouldn’t need to be a thing but it should still be an option if you have extra money and feel generous, it just shouldn’t be expected.
If the goal is to do away with tipping, I don’t know of another way besides banning it that will be effective.
The provinces of Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia all did away with the seperate (lesser) server wage so that all employees go by a universal minimum wage. I don’t think that changed patrons’ tipping habits one bit.
And servers are still reliant on the good will of people. Ain’t nobody with real expenses getting by with some of these minimum wages. Not with the current cost-of-living.
Restaurant owners will increase prices with inflation because it means more profits. Restaurant owners are also notorious for stealing tips and wage theft.
And restaurants that ended tipping (some have) have happier wait staff and management.
I do not own a restaurant but am a worker, bartender specifically.
Every restaurant that i know of or have worked in that switches to a non-tipped wage leads to suppressed/lower wages, and that’s from someone who has intimate access to the books.
Pay is definitely more consistent but not as high on average by design.
Well you can do a shitty version of anything. There are gains to be had switching to a non-tipped pay structure, but its up to the owner to distribute it fairly. Sounds like in your examples the owner collected the extra money themselves.
i misheard lady gaga’s bad romance the first few times. “want you in my rear window, baby, you’re sick;” came across to me as “while in morrowind, your baby is sick.” thought it was a commentary of some sorts lmao.
It’s the ash storms, babies drop like flies in that kind of weather. Probably why you don’t see any kids in Vvardenfell is because they get stored away somewhere keep them safe from ash, blight, and disease carrying imperials
They do look the way they do because the Tribunal are assholes who got them all cursed. So I like it, they’ve made peace with their faces but never the shame of having super ugly babies so they all get hidden away
Is he trying to give himself power of attorney? If not, then it really doesn’t make any sense at all. Even doing that doesn’t make any sense anyways lol
Very true. I wonder if any of the other sovcits ever understand each other in these posts. I picture them going “huh? I have no idea… Try this random thing!”
What they’re trying to do is effectively magic. They think that if they word things just correctly that it will achieve some desired result. Unfortunately for them, the real world does not work that way. Fortunately for us, it’s fun to laugh at them for trying over and over and over and again, and expecting different results with each consecutive attempt.
Sovcits have multiple “selfs” he is probably trying to give his new self POA over his old self’s account, but not be financially responsible for any debts…
At the core of 99% sovcits hijynx is always an attempt to not pay their debts.
I also read it as he wants them to hold on to his money, but he doesn’t want them having any access or knowledge of his money, lest they do something to it. It feels just crazy enough to be what they’re thinking.
“this is not an automated response” - honestly, I think this is one of the few situations where a company could be fully justified in forcing a customer to use ChatGPT for support, since that would free up the service reps to focus on helping the sane customers.
Definitely not a time to be using an automated response. Banks and credit unions have to comply with strict regulations so the most annoying customers need to be babied like this.
If you read the message, they are sticking closely to the specific rules they have to follow. This is the proper way to deal with anyone demanding things like this: assume that all communications with customers will be used as evidence in court.
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