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kbin.life

Iniquity , to nostupidquestions in What do you think is responsible for lemmy’s growth over other alternatives like KBin and Tildes?

For me personally, it was the farewell message on RIF specifically mentioned Lemmy.

Don’t know if some of the others apps also did this but it would certainly have helped.

Guster ,

Sync also did this

namelessdread ,

I used Boost for Reddit and they’re creating a Lemmy app. So here I am.

Vapofusion ,

Nice, I’m coming from the same place.

I love learning all about what being federated means and can’t wait to see the exponential growth along with boostforlemmy 🙂

rowdyrockets , (edited ) to fediverse in Tame your inner dictator!

deleted_by_author

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  • hawkwind ,
    @hawkwind@lemmy.management avatar

    I mean someone from the “outside” might go to lemmy.world and see a page full of poop and beans and argue the same thing. Just saying.

    problematicconsumer OP ,
    @problematicconsumer@lemmy.world avatar

    I have no problem with people making educated decisions or ask for change based on facts. Fully agree about quality over quantity as well. My issue is FUD, having no idea what you’re talking about and still trying to convince everyone of that is harmful. When people working day and night on these protocols say there are no privacy concerns and no one can show you ads etc. and yet someone with literally zero understanding of the matter claims otherwise.

    hawkwind ,
    @hawkwind@lemmy.management avatar

    The ol’ “you know not of what you speak,” syndrome. Know-it-all’s with an axe to grind are the minority, but man, are they disruptive.

    RxBrad ,

    I dunno. I just stumbled on a movement to push instance owners to defederate any instance that doesn’t defederate Threads.

    This seems very much in the vein of dictatorialism / authoritarianism. It’s honestly just gross. This whole “you’re either with us or against us” tribalism is what has made social media so awful these last several years.

    hawkwind ,
    @hawkwind@lemmy.management avatar

    I think it’s more like the instances are countries, admins are governments, and defederation is embargo. Information and influence are the resources. Eventually, you’ll have instances that keep to themselves and others that throw their weight around regardless of any real world political alignment.

    Arn_Thor ,

    Not exactly. state actors and political party-sponsored troll farms have nurtured that tribalism and dialed it up for the past decade while the companies running the platforms stood by and raked in the cash because anger is engagement is money.

    CarlsIII ,

    Who is this this dictator/authority you refer to that’s forcing instances to defederate?

    RxBrad ,
    intensely_human ,

    Technically the concept you’re referring to is totalitarianism.

    Generally speaking that’s the view that there is one truth, one set of morally-correct beliefs, and that because What Is Good is known, it can be assumed those who don’t agree are Bad People.

    The basic seed of totalitarianism is this idea: “We know everything that needs to be known”

    An example of a totalitarian culture is Nazism: they thought that they’d worked out The Truth and that gave them the confidence that they were doing the right thing even as they did horrible things.

    Another view on totalitarian belief is this common argument against capital punishment: “Given there are errors in determining guilt, a system of killing people determined to be guilty, will in fact kill some innocent people.”

    That’s an anti-totalitarian argument. Basically it says “Given that we don’t have omniscience, let’s take it easy on the drastic action”

    The totalitarian view on capital punishment relies on this implicit argument: “Our courts have determined that guy is guilty, and our courts are always right, so the only ethical move is to kill him”. Then you might ask “why’s it okay to kill that guy but not other people?” and the totalitarian say “that’s different, because the first guy is guilty and the second guy is innocent”.

    It’s that certainty that defines totalitarianism.

    And the way it leads to dictatorships is this: If determining the correct move is a finite process that proceeds deterministically from observations and the already-determined set of moral rules, there’s no reason to ask multiple people’s opinion about this law. Therefore it will be law because we know it’s right.

    The non-totalitarian stance is open to new information, and doubts the ability of any one individual to have final knowledge of the right move, and so polls everyone on major decisions. ie democracy, or the distribution of power.

    problematicconsumer OP ,
    @problematicconsumer@lemmy.world avatar

    Great comment! Totalitarianism better describes this notion. My biggest problem is with these people thinking they know better, truth is we don’t know. All of these are social experiments and instead of taking preemptive drastic measures we can take a light handed approach and make decisions democratically whenever actually needed.

    jose1324 , to youshouldknow in YSK: Subscriber count on communities only show the numbers of users subscribed from your specific instance. The real number might be much larger than you think.

    This is a huge thing I didn’t know about. Lemmy really needs to show the full number. I’m on .world and even here everything seems really niche and small. It hurts perception hugely

    qwop ,

    Yeah, there currently seem to be a bunch of rough edges with Lemmy. Another is that iirc editing a comment increases the comment count shown on a post.

    Nothing that can’t be fixed though, and it’s encouraging how good Lemmy feels already compared to reddit (for me at least).

    qwop ,

    Yeah, there currently seem to be a bunch of rough edges with Lemmy. Another is that iirc editing a comment increases the comment count shown on a post.

    Nothing that can’t be fixed though, and it’s encouraging how good Lemmy feels already compared to reddit (for me at least).

    lazyvar ,
    @lazyvar@programming.dev avatar

    Another such rough edge is that comments sometimes get posted twice, like your comment Screenshot of two of the same comments showing up in the threadt

    qwop ,

    Haha, got a “network error” on my first attempt so clicked send again, I guess it did go through the first time after all :D

    lazyvar ,
    @lazyvar@programming.dev avatar

    Typical Lemmy experience, haha.

    Honestly has its charms, gives me the feeling of nostalgia, like we’re back in the early 2000’s.

    someguy3 ,

    Whazzuuuppp.

    jerkface ,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    AND MY AXE!

    odium ,

    Same thing happened to me on reddit official android app many times.

    tunahanyilmaz ,
    @tunahanyilmaz@lemmy.world avatar

    A similar thing actually happens on Reddit. You can click the send button more than once if you’re quick enough. I saw it all the time.

    SpezCanLigmaBalls ,
    @SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve only experienced this while using apps

    derelict ,
    @derelict@lemmy.world avatar

    At a bare minimum it should be called ‘local subscribers’ to make that clear if there are technical reasons making a total number difficult

    Dazza , to youshouldknow in YSK: While you're on Lemmy/Kbin/Fediverse, you're not "the product" but you're also not "the customer".

    One of my favourite things about early days Reddit was it’s growing community of positivity. There was actual encouragement to be nice to each other and subreddits were built around celebrating stuff.

    Negativity was downvoted into oblivion so you never saw that stuff on the All page and popular pages.

    I’m seeing the same thing with Lemmy right now and hope it continues long into the future. The lack of profiteering should really help with this.

    stardustsystem ,
    @stardustsystem@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s the kind of thing that’s easy to start and hard to continue. Time will tell, but I hope we can develop the kind of community values here that will grow with scale, rather than shrink

    CaptainBasculin , to linuxmemes in I like both, but usually prefer Ubuntu

    Ubuntu forks that ditch snap > Ubuntu

    TootSweet ,

    Yeah, why does Ubuntu keep snap?

    Like, WTF is the deal with not having any official way to install Firefox other than snap? Firefox.

    ccdfa ,

    Because canonical, who make ubuntu, also make snap. So it gets shoved down your throat. This is why I don’t use Ubuntu.

    possiblylinux127 ,

    This is coming from the same company that put Amazon ads on the dash

    SkaveRat ,

    Fyi, Mozilla released an official apt package a couple months ago to get Firefox without snap

    TootSweet ,

    Yeah, I do know about that. (You’re referring to the PPA repo thing, yeah?) But there are a couple of reasons why that isn’t a workable solution specifically for me specifically.

    • The major reason is that I only use Ubuntu on my work machine and my employer’s compliance department won’t really answer questions about whether it’s allowed to add extra repositories or install things not from the official Ubuntu repositories on company-owned hardware. (And they’re always really threatening and assholeish about breaking the rules they won’t elaborate on, so my best option is kindof just to interpret the rules as strictly as I can and follow that. Or else flout the rules and dare them to fire me. Heh…) Raising questions like that is always a whole thing.
    • “firefox” from the PPA repo and “firefox” from Snap have the same package name which makes things awkward dealing with Apt. (Unless you use “firefox-esr” from the PPA repo, which would otherwise be an acceptable workaround if that was the only issue.)

    So I just use Chrome on my work machine. I dislike Chrome more than Firefox for many reasons, but I at least mitigate some of the issues with Chrome by specifically not doing anything personal on my work machine. I don’t really care if Chrome invades my employer’s privacy. Especially when my employer doesn’t give me a choice in browsers. If anything comes of it, it’s their own damned fault.

    lud ,

    You’re referring to the PPA repo thing, yeah?

    No they actually have a real apt repo now.

    support.mozilla.org/…/install-firefox-linux#w_ins…

    Successful_Try543 ,

    For the conflicting package names, there is at least the solution to pin the sources.list from the PPA with a higher priority than the official Ubuntu repository. This would work even package-wise.

    bdonvr , (edited )

    I wouldn’t even mind snap so much but the day I found out apt would automatically use snaps instead for some packages with no easy opt out was a step too far.

    Drop it, snaps are dead. All hail FlatPak.

    SkaveRat ,

    I despise flatpak and snap equally

    Not a single time have I used a program with them that worked properly

    bdonvr ,

    Interesting. I use an immutable distro (Fedora Kinoite) so basically everything I use outside of the apps bundled with the OS are flatpaks. Other than learning a few things about FlatPak permissions, file locations, etc, it’s been completely painless.

    gravitas_deficiency ,

    lol what are you talking about? One of my daily drivers is Kinoite and it works great. What flatpaks are you having issues with? Frankly, you must be being hyperbolic, because tons of people use tons of flatpaks without issue.

    SkaveRat ,

    I mean, it’s great that it works for you.

    But I’m not even kidding. Literally every single one.

    I’ve now completely purged all snap and fp apps from my system and live a less angry life

    gravitas_deficiency ,

    Again: name them. Describe the failures.

    I simply don’t believe that you have 100% incompatibility, and I say that because I use a decently broad selection across several devices without any serious issues. Sure, they’re not perfect, but they’re a damn sight better than snaps, and in my experience, decently reliable.

    Back your claims with data, or be prepared to have people like me call bullshit.

    SkaveRat ,

    I’ve stopped using them for over a year now.

    Granted, most of the apps I used were snap based, but some of them were flatpack.

    Most of them were single-use “use this tool with flatpack” tools via github, so I really can’t remember what those were when they just didn’t work.

    The ones I looked into why it didn’t work were always some filesystem permission stuff. Configurable? Sure. Not something you should be needing to do on first launch if you want to just use the tool? Absolutely

    The biggest issue I remember I had was with Vorta, a GUI for borg. Which also just had massive filesystem issues (plus some settings saving issues, which I assume also is a FS issue). Having problems reading your filesystem is quite a problem when you want to use a tool that, well, needs to read your filesystem.

    I’m honestly not really interested in stacking a pile of tools up that just didn’t work for me.

    If you like flatpack, go ahead. More power to the people who do.

    It’s just not a tool that I had any luck with. And I don’t really see a point in trying again for the forseeable future

    bdonvr ,

    I mean I find it hard to believe but this level of argumentativeness is silly and toxic. Why would they lie? Maybe they have some edge case or misconfiguration. Maybe they got unlucky and ran into some kind of breaking bug on their specific system. Shit happens.

    rolling_resistance ,

    You’ve been very unlucky. There’s plenty of properly working flatpaks.

    Blemgo ,

    What I experienced is that Snaps/Flatpaks that contain X11 apps will behave very oddly in a Wayland sessions, at least with NVidia GPUs.

    Using distros that still use X11, like Linux Mint, seems to help a lot.

    One thing I will commend Snaps/Flatpak for however is bundling dependencies, especially deprecated ones. I spent DAYS trying to install an older version of .NET framework that’s no longer supported to get a game (Vintage Story), but to no avail. With the appropriate Snap/Flatpak it worked first try, well, once I found the distro that doesn’t have the X11 problem that was previously stated.

    gregor ,

    Try using flatpak for command-line software, I dare you

    xmunk , to news in [USA] Presidential Debate Mega Thread

    Why hasn’t Vice President Harris fixed everything already, she’s the Vice President already so she should fix it.

    So says the man that tried to get his VP hung when he dared disagree with him.

    taiyang , to science_memes in #goals

    This is the type of joke I make in my classes, and it’s beautiful to see how many Gen z students don’t realize it’s a joke. To them, I’ve murdered several people, had a very messy breakup with Taylor Swift, and probably repeated high school. Also belonged to several bands with obscure names.

    It’s not my fault, I grew up on Conan O’Brien and Craig Ferguson. Those implied one-offs are a tick I can’t control, lol

    idiomaddict ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • taiyang ,

    Gosh I hope so. It’s true, the proper thing to do is Yes-And my behavior, lol

    daddy32 ,

    Tell us more about your experience with Taylor Swift. Also, the murders.

    taiyang ,

    Hey, whatever Taytay wants, Taytay gets. Murders, strawberry ice cream, rigged Superbowls, you name it.

    IrateAnteater , to greentext in Posting the shopping cart theory because people had questions in a separate thread

    No one will punish you for not returning the cart

    My opinion on this is reason number 8735 why I will never, and should never, be in charge of a country.

    GroundedGator ,

    I’d vote for you.

    TranscendentalEmpire , (edited )

    I too have thousands of reasons why I shouldn’t be in charge of a country, however I do have one good pitch.

    My appointment to dictatorship would be guided solely by autism. I guarantee my powers will only be focused upon my two fixations that deal with the general public, trains and healthcare.

    If made supreme leader I will not only make the trains run on time, there will be more trains, more hospitals, we would even have trains that can take you to your job at the hospital. I would shape the perfect world for me, and vicariously a more efficient and safer world for you.

    Demand Me for dictator 2024

    Omgpwnies ,

    Why not put the hospital in the train? Instead of taking the train to the hospital, the hospital comes to you

    Bougie_Birdie ,
    @Bougie_Birdie@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Imagine if there was a train to the hospital that also did triage.

    So you get on the hospital line and a nurse determines if you need urgent care. They could take you to a less crowded hospital further down the line or dispatch paramedics to next stop.

    TranscendentalEmpire ,

    Tbh, I would love to see it. But our railway infrastructure is dog shit atm, and we wouldn’t be able to expand the network fast enough to accommodate something as luxurious as a railway hospital until much later.

    My first goal would be to expand the network to the point where cars are unnecessary for the vast majority of my citizens. This would both increase rail traffic to acceptable levels and help alleviate the unnecessary healthcare cost and harm of motor vehicle accidents.

    Become my peon, every peon gets healthcare and can apply to drive an electric train. Me -2024

    UrPartnerInCrime ,

    I just wanted to say “Demand Me for dictator 2024” made me chuckle and you have my pledge

    Ninjasftw ,

    I often think about how much better the world/ my local area would be if I was allowed to taser people at will for things like that. 😀

    scoobford , to nostupidquestions in Is it me or is everyone in hexbear insane?

    Many of them, yes. They’re among the most radical of the leftist instances, which means that they attract a lot of propagandists and tankies. They have some perfectly reasonable people too, but you know, vocal minority. Its the main thing most people notice about those instances.

    Many people block hexbear, Lemmy.ml, and lemmygrad for these reasons.

    skeezix ,

    What is a ‘tankie’?

    ShepherdPie ,

    Pro-China sycophants. They’d be the ones driving the tanks at Tiananman Square.

    I’d also argue that these people only put up a facade of being leftist. I’ve never once seen a hexbear user actually make arguments for leftist policies, socialism, or communism. They just shitpost a bunch of anti-American memes and rally for the Russian and Chinese governments.

    skeezix ,

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • irreticent ,
    @irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

    How do you know a tankie from a government paid shill like UniversalMonk?

    I’m not familiar with UniversalMonk. Why do you think they’re a government paid shill?

    baseless_discourse ,

    Apologists for Chinese/Russian government.

    Ullallulloo ,

    Someone ideologically somewhere between his greatest heroes, Stalin and Mao.

    Facebones ,

    In theory, the things the other replies said.

    In practice, anything left of the average Lemmy.world liberal/democrat.

    I don’t Lemmy enough to say there are zero hexbear users who are pro China or pro wtfever people say, but I see almost none of the ridiculous shit the rest of Lemmy claim exclusively happens there. What I DO see is liberals (usually from lemmy.world if we’re swinging at instances) talking ridiculous trollish shit to hexbear users than using the silly trollish responses they get in response to justify these “all hexbears want to give America to Xi Jinping” posts.

    expr ,

    I dunno, I ended up blocking the instance way before I knew about their reputation (like, when I first joined Lemmy) because all of the users their kept posting the most unhinged shit.

    I have definitely seen blatant apologism for China/Russia from them.

    FWIW, I’m much further left than your average Democrat (I consider myself a leftist/anarchist). I personally don’t consider what I’ve seen from them to be very “left”, just authoritarian.

    Facebones ,

    I was sure to not be an absolutist for a reason, I’m not always cruising Lemmy. Hexbear in particular absolutely has a sense of humor sometimes that I myself am a bit old for, but judging them for that is very much more “Old man yelling at clouds” than anything. If you don’t like it, sure, but that doesn’t say A or B about them.

    Maybe there’s blatant apologism, but in my experience it’s people taking whatever scraps they can find to claim “Apologism.” For example, discussing high speed rail development in China. Admiring a rail system isn’t “blatant apologism,” but most lemmy liberals would call it as such, because it was built by China. It’s like calling me a Putin apologist for discussing Dostoyevsky. Yes, I’m admiring a creation of the country or it’s culture, but I’m not saying that their current governments are the only way forward or really saying anything about governance at all.

    Again, I’m not claiming you haven’t seen something “blatant” before (I could name so many one off events I’ve witnessed that don’t hold to norms,) I’m just saying that people claiming it to be this widespread norm on every leftist instance are spreading disinformation.

    expr ,

    Sure, perhaps it’s possible that I saw an unusually high amount of apologists, but I’m saying that it happened enough times and consistently enough that it prompted me to block them before I even knew anything about them, which I think at least says something. I won’t claim to know what the majority opinion there is, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that it’s an abnormal amount.

    Facebones ,

    As I mentioned, I’d be inclined to wonder what you’re considering “apologism.” The fact that you didn’t address the points I made makes me think you fall into that camp of boiling an intentionally wide array of ideas, conversation, etc down to “apologism” to take up arms against instances you don’t like. I see discussion of those countries, and examples of things that are happening there, but not one time have I seen people celebrating violence or excusing it on either hexbear or .ml.

    FlorianSimon ,

    Don’t be gaslit, Russian warcrimes enjoyers are running wild on Nazbear.

    What you saw is what I saw too, and that’s just disgusting. Don’t be fooled.

    I’ve seen them pulling the debatebro tactics they complain about, and feigning ignorance when you talk about their favorite dictators.

    Those people aren’t acting in good faith, and are trying to manipulate you. They’re pissed that they’re being treated like pariahs and are defederated from everything, because their influence has shrunk significantly and they’ve essentially been defanged (they’re getting banned left and right, even by real lefties).

    TraitorToAmerica , (edited )

    the original origin of the term was a group british communists attacking anyone who supported the Soviet Union’s crushing of the hungarian uprising in 1956. it then morphed into a term used to attack anyone who supports the use of force and authority in general to suppress counter revolutionaries. it’s final degeneration is that it is now used to attack anyone to the left of an american democrat like facebones said.

    redsails.org/tankies/

    here is a good article about it. To be clear: this is written from the perspective of a marxist leninist, who are normally the number one target of being called a “tankie”. Still, it is very short, and redsails is a really cool website that has the footnotes with citations pop up as you read long

    RecluseRamble ,

    It’s extremely unconvincing to say “Sure it was horrible last time, but next time it’ll be different.” Trotskyists and ultraleftists compensate by prettying up their picture of socialism and picking more obscure (usually short-lived) experiments to uphold as the real deal. But this just gives ammunition to those who say “Socialism doesn’t work” or “Socialism is a utopian fantasy.” And lurking behind the whole conversation is Stalin, who for the average Westerner represents the unadvisability of trying to radically change the world at all. No matter how much you insist that your thing isn’t Stalinist, the specter of Stalin is still going to affect how people think about (any form of) socialism — tankies have decided that there is no getting around the problem of addressing Stalin’s legacy. That legacy, as it stands, at least in Western public opinion (they feel differently about him in other parts of the world), is largely the product of Cold War propaganda.

    That’s the gist. Then he goes on with another paragraph of whataboutism but of course not a single mention of the tens of millions of dead both, Stalin and Mao, were responsible for.

    Of course he’s also an western armchair socialist. People that actually lived in the Sowjet Union (and not in today’s Russia) draw quite a different picture.

    TraitorToAmerica , (edited )

    The thing is, delinking socialism from Stalin also means delinking it from the Soviet Union, disavowing everything that’s been done under the name of socialism as “Stalinist.” The “socialism” that results from this procedure is defined as grassroots, bottom-up, democratic, non-bureaucratic, nonviolent, non-hierarchical… in other words, perfect. So whenever real revolutionaries (say, for example, the Naxals in India) do things imperfectly they are cast out of “socialism” and labeled “Stalinists.” This is clearly an example of respectability politics run amok. Tankies believe that this failure of solidarity, along with the utopian ideas that the revolution can win without any kind of serious conflict or without party discipline, are more significant problems for the left than is “authoritarianism” (see Engels for more on this last point). [5] We believe that understanding the problems faced by Stalin and Mao helps us understand problems generic to socialism, that any successful socialism will have to face sooner or later. This is much more instructive and useful than just painting nicer and nicer pictures of socialism while the world gets worse and worse.

    this is directly preceding it. Even if I accepted your frankly hilarious black book of communism death tolls, the argument here is that the soviet union and China still greatly improved the lives of the average citizen compared to what came before while facing huge problems that you would crumble upon immediately upon encountering, like imminent war from the west that they predicted and prepared for correctly. As far as your other claim, it’s not nearly so simple as you make it out to be:

    washingtonpost.com/…/why-do-so-many-people-miss-t… reuters.com/…/us-ebrd-transition-survey-idUSKBN14…

    edit: also, nia frome is a trans woman

    christian ,
    @christian@lemmy.ml avatar

    This essay resonates with me, thanks for sharing, the author makes her points pretty effectively. I’m not a historian and I don’t know shit, but I think even if I give the critics the concession that everything is absolute rubbish, I still think there’s no convincing argument that the beliefs are dishonest or malicious or not genuine.

    There’s so much bullshit and conflicting views about literally every historical event that I find it really hard to penetrate the context of the discussion and feel confident in anything, but I think the fact that I keep seeing people who hold “tankie” opinions dismissed as malicious propagandists pushes me very strongly towards feeling that the critics have not made any attempt to seriously engage with the ideas they’re fighting against.

    I think the realization I’m coming to now is that when part of your ideology is that people who claim belief in a specific conflicting worldview can be dismissed as bots or propagandists, finding out that those people aren’t manufactured makes it a lot harder to take everything else you’ve said seriously.

    On the other hand, the guy you’re replying to is correct that the author’s points fall completely flat and are ridiculous once you hunt down that specific paragraph and remove the context immediately before and after. Then it becomes obvious to an unbiased reader that the author actually ignored communist death tolls because it was inconvenient for her argument.

    TraitorToAmerica ,

    glad it managed to reach someone! If you want the best nuanced review of Stalin from anyone anywhere, you will have to read Stalin: History and Critique of a Black Legend by Domenico Losurdo (free pdf here!). It is well sourced, and also uses western sources that should be biased against stalin to make its arguments! review on the same site as the tankies article here: redsails.org/on-losurdos-stalin/

    additionally, some other articles I highly recommend if you want to understand our position better:

    redsails.org/why-marxism/
    redsails.org/the-case-for-socialized-ownership/
    redsails.org/concessions/
    redsails.org/what-is-dialectics/
    redsails.org/communist-self-confidence/

    most of these are quite a bit longer, so sorry to flood you with them, but I’m always eager to share these excellent articles with anyone who will consider reading them!

    Facebones , (edited )

    It’s interesting how the only criticism anybody can drum up is “tens of millions dead,” but nobody bats an eye at the death toll of capitalism, capitalist countries, and their endless war machine/endless interference in other countries via funding coups or outright assassinations in support of harmful leaders who will play nice with the corporations.

    Your link describes discussion of labor camps as if it’s some long lost relic of a bygone era - but slavery of inmates is, right now, legal and prevalent in the US subsidizing private industries for pennies on the dollar. It references the conditions of the camps, but plenty of current US inmates face subhuman conditions and treatment. You imply that everybody suffered all the time under the Soviets, but a far from insignificant number (depending on how you do the numbers, with more support for the USSR than we have for our own government this past decade or so) remember the USSR fondly, or at least as better than their current governments.

    All the things y’all constantly belt about to argue socialism is the great evil of the world is shit we do now that you support as long as it benefits private entities instead of public. I’m not going to argue that everything was perfect, or that nobody was corrupt, but I WILL argue that y’all spend a lot of time defending those same imperfections and corruptions under capitalism with this lazy weak ass “but fixing it would be spooky scary socialism” argument. Per the common reasons people call socialism a failure, so is capitalism. That’s why leftists call for, as you call it, “prettied up” socialism - not to fool people, but because what we’re doing now is FAILING EVERYBODY and tripling down on funneling even more of our economy to 1-3% of the population hasn’t helped anything so it’s time for something different and realistic change is gradual, not “seizing the means of production” overnight. Practically, we find a functional balance like the rest of the “first” world.

    To co-opt my criticism of zionists defending genocide with the “1,200 dead” figure: If tens of millions dead under socialism makes you so mad, just wait til you hear about the hundreds of millions dead under capitalism.

    ((I don’t know anything about how to do the thing notating an image so in the off chance it helps someone: Drake No/Yes Meme DrakeNo - tyranny.gov DrakeYes - tyranny.com )) https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/742d125d-2783-4bf8-ad11-52f92ef7d436.jpeg

    RecluseRamble ,

    Yet more whataboutism. This thread is about tankies not capitalist slavery.

    Facebones ,

    Maybe you shouldn’t have defended your point with a link using these talking points then if you didn’t want them responded to.

    Thanks for proving my point though about liberals just saying shit then going “SeEeEe??!?!” no matter the response.

    SSJMarx ,

    the tens of millions of dead both, Stalin and Mao, were responsible for.

    Oh no! Won’t somebody think of the Nazis and Japanese invaders?

    michaelmrose ,

    Stalin and Mao both killed a hell of a lot of their own people that is what they are referring to

    SSJMarx ,

    They said “tens of millions”, the only number of people killed that matches that scope is the number of enemy combatants in world war 2.

    Regardless, the Kulaks and the Landlords deserved it.

    michaelmrose ,

    Mao was responsible for the deaths of 30-50M in famine. Estimates of Stalins score from famine, execution, forced relocation, labor camps is more difficult to ascertain. Estimates range from 3 -20M. Whether you disagree with this estimate it is incredibly likely that the prior poster was referencing the 33M–70M who died in intolerable conditions not the nazis.

    The fact that you justify the state getting in the systemic murder business for any cause is a fundamental difference between our understanding of what can ever be morally acceptable.

    SSJMarx ,

    The fact that they don’t tell you in the average anticommunist pop history youtube video is that China had been experiencing famines pretty much every single year for a thousand years by the time the Communists took over. The last famines occurred under Communist rule, but it is because of Communist policies that the cyclical famines stopped. This applies to the USSR as well.

    Yes we can look back and see that killing the sparrows was a bad idea, but on the whole collectivized farms produced more food per hectare than smallholder farms did, and the policies of the Communists are what brought in sufficient numbers of tractors and other farming equipment to modernize outdated practices in rural regions. Without the Communists the simple fact is that the famines would have happened anyway, they would have been worse, and there would have been more of them.

    This is the reason why, even when you include the famine deaths in your data, the average lifespan under Mao doubled from what it had been when the Republic of China controlled the mainland. The Communists won the war precisely because they treated peasants better than the then-central government did, and when they took power they enacted policies that massively improved the lives of everyone in China, and still continue to do so.

    michaelmrose ,

    It sounds like ANY state of any variety anywhere in the world any time in modern history could have ended famines and you are somehow ascribing the benefits of modern farming to communism.

    SSJMarx ,

    Any state can, but many don’t. And the point here was to explain why I don’t believe that blaming famine deaths on Mao Zedong is a justified position to take, when the cycle of famine was ended under his watch.

    Urist ,
    @Urist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Did not know about this site. It was a nice read and their mission statement is cool. Thanks for sharing! :)

    TraitorToAmerica ,

    o7 happy to hear that!

    Ensign_Crab ,

    Apologists for authoritarian regimes that have either historically been communist or paint themselves as such currently.

    Or as far as most of .world is concerned, anyone to the left of Joe Manchin.

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    “Leftists” who are more interested in authoritarianism than leftism. At their very worst, they even ally with the far-right.

    carl_marks_1312 ,
    @carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml avatar
    ZILtoid1991 ,

    “Authoritarianism is when people want things, not when government exerts force!”

    Cowbee ,
    @Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

    Are you saying that Marx and Engels weren’t Leftists?

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    Not at all. They were wrong on certain things, which people like Stalin used to justify his own horrible stuff.

    Cowbee ,
    @Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

    You’re linked a direct refutation on “anti-authouritarians” from Engels. Marx and Engels were criticized as “Authoritarian” by Anarchists of their era. Either Marx and Engels were Authoritarian in your eyes and thus not Leftists, or the Authoritarian argument itself is misplaced as a thought-terminating cliche as Engels points out, that avoids grappling with the Marxist theory of the State.

    carl_marks_1312 ,
    @carl_marks_1312@lemmy.ml avatar

    You might wanna work on your reading comprehension if that is what you get from Engels text

    PersnickityPenguin ,

    I have yet to see any reasonableness from hexbear.

    Hell, I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.

    They brigade like annoying unwanted fleas that you cannot get rid of.

    christian , (edited )
    @christian@lemmy.ml avatar

    I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.

    Definitely a joke, I’m having trouble imagining a person who could believe this in earnest, let alone enough to say it out loud. I’m even having trouble accepting that you can imagine that a person would say this with no sarcasm. No one actually believes that.

    edit: just realized that maybe you’re trying to be funny and I’m slow on the uptake

    Objection ,

    Hell, I had a few members tell me that I was part of the evil capitalist elite because I had a job.

    Anytime a person claims something happened on the fediverse without providing a link to it, they are lying or misrepresenting what happened literally 100% of the time.

    pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

    excluding anything tanke related.

    Objection ,

    Especially anything tankie related.

    Y’all will believe literally anything with zero evidence of it means making people you don’t like look bad.

    pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

    how the fuck do tankies fall for communism, LIKE HOW?

    Objection ,

    Well, for starters, I don’t blindly believe anything people say about it.

    lemmydividebyzero ,

    My definition of left and theirs are very different.

    foxontherocks ,

    Tankie is such a weird thing to call these communists. They are way way less violent than liberals and conservatives are. They don’t even support any on going genocides like the others do.

    Cowbee ,
    @Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

    The historical through-line is that the term originated from British Communists that supported the USSR putting down the Hungarian Counter-Revolution, which involved tanks and violent fighting.

    Nowadays, Tankie is used for everyone left of liberalism that agrees with the Marxist theory of the State, rather than the Anarchist, it’s muddled and has no meaning.

    beefbot , to explainlikeimfive in Explain like I am a moron. If the US is such apparently a badass super power it has never tried to take over another country to expand its influence and status?

    Ok I’ll explain like you’re five. You’re wrong. It has lots of times. There are things you don’t know until you read more about them

    psycocan ,

    Exactly. The trick is media control

    nandeEbisu ,

    That’s not really an explanation…

    Boozilla , to nostupidquestions in Why are doctors so hands off and unhelpful in the USA?
    @Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar
    • Too many patients, not enough doctors.
    • Private insurance and intrusive controlling software: the doctor is limited in what they are allowed to prescribe, they have to check all sorts of boxes, and they have complex computer forms to fill out. They are too busy with the laptop to have much attention left for patients.
    • Non-compliant patients who “do their own research” on the internet.

    Most doctors I know don’t even want to go to a doctor. They know all the providers are shit talking their patients and just doing the best they can in a very broken system.

    Late stage capitalism and medical misinformation have made the doctor-patient relationship almost adversarial.

    Nougat ,

    You know enough doctors well enough to know that most of them don't want to go to a doctor?

    Boozilla ,
    @Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

    Read what I said. Most doctors I know. I know several. I worked for a hospital system, and I currently have a healthcare adjacent job. We talk about these things, yes. I don’t claim to speak for all doctors.

    Maeve ,

    Non-compliance is often because it's unaffordable, even diet.

    Boozilla ,
    @Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, I would not dispute that. Medication and PT is too expensive for many. And many people live in “food deserts”. Whatever the causes, it’s highly frustrating for doctors.

    Asidonhopo ,

    Non-compliant patients who “do their own research” on the internet.

    In the US they advertise drugs directly to us, we’re expected to do our own marketing-guided research to speed along the transaction.

    Boozilla ,
    @Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re right, it’s a complex issue that my bullet point just kind of touched on (and lacks nuance). In many ways, patients are required to navigate their own health care and be their own champion and advocate It gets messy when we encounter misinformation that tells us what we want to hear, but isn’t based on solid science.

    Wrench ,

    Also a very litigious society. Even if they mean well, going off the page and trying to figure out a “Haus” solution is just putting themselves at risk.

    They have to check all the boxes for your insurance. They have to check all the boxes for their own malpractice insurance. Even if they followed procedure, they might get dragged through the legal system to defend themselves if a client feels wronged.

    That turns you, the client, into a number in a dispassionated machine.

    And I don’t have a solution to it.

    Edit - that was a bit too bleak. There are a lot of doctors trying their best to retain humanity in a system aimed at destroying it. The whole med school journey is aimed at weeding the people out who are just in it for the money. It’s designed to gatekeep the industry to require a massive amount of passion to get your foot in the door. But the realities of the industry do their best to squash that.

    Boozilla ,
    @Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

    Thank you, you bring up some important points. Malpractice lawsuits and insurance are significant problems, too.

    In my limited anecdotal experience as a patient of (and support staff for) doctors I have met some very compassionate and capable doctors and nurses. I don’t see health care providers as being the problem with our system. It’s primarily the private health insurance companies and PBMs. They are the main reasons why we can’t have nice things.

    Hazor ,

    They are too busy with the laptop to have much attention left for patients.

    I’m a nurse practitioner, and can confirm this: I spend at least half of my time tapping away at the computer, checking boxes, and completing often-redundant forms for insurance and regulatory compliance and whatnot. It’s really frustrating, and there’s a lot of room for improvement.

    Boozilla ,
    @Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s astonishing (and insane) how private health insurance has taken over the entirety of health care at every operational level.

    This is a type of insurance that started out decades ago as an unusual perk for executives. They called “major medical”. Nobody thought that much about it. In those days most working people simply could go see a doctor and just pay with cash or check.

    Now, their tendrils have wrapped around everything from the lowest-paid pharmacy tech to most expensive surgeon…and everything and everyone in-between.

    The board rooms of private health insurance companies have a gigantic dragon by the tail, and they have no damned clue what to do with it.

    Boozilla ,
    @Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ll also add that I very much appreciate nurse practitioners. I have to go in every 6 months for routine “old man maintenance” checkups, and there’s really no need for me to see a doctor for these types of visits. You’re filling a much-needed role. (And I’m sure you do a lot more than just “old man maintenance” consults, LOL).

    Empricorn , to science_memes in Curse of Knowledge

    Who the hell has a counter-clockwise corkscrew!?

    moistclump ,

    Good catch! I had to stare at it for a minute picturing myself spinning it into a cork and it does feel like it goes the wrong way. (Not righty righty).

    tetris11 ,
    @tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

    they’re pretty common here, you can get one at your local leftorium

    Michal ,

    Last I checked they had none left…

    Empricorn ,

    All right.

    Michal ,

    Yeah, and then I left.

    Seleni ,

    Did you feel left out not getting one?

    Empricorn ,

    You could always right the situation.

    Michal ,

    Without it I was screwed

    packadal ,

    Left handed people

    ladicius ,

    Those cursed left handeds. We should burn them at the stake.

    stebo02 ,
    @stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    who the hell analyses a comic so deeply >:)

    ladicius ,

    Yes.

    Duamerthrax ,

    Coriolis Effect. Must be a Southern Hemisphere corkscrew.

    Guy_Fieris_Hair , to nostupidquestions in Why is Kamala Harris being held at such a higher standard than Trump this election?

    You must be young. Because Republicans will vote for a criminal before they vote for “communism”. Because the Republicans attempt to destroy the educational system to keep people dumb enough to vote for them has worked. Because dispite the corporate media pandering and acting like they want Harris Because that’s what their viewers want, their billionaire owners don’t. They want the republican led centrist enabled tax breaks on their money. Harris has also brought in the progressives which have zero tolerance for the centrist mindset. She is in a situation where she has to dance a dance of trying to reel in the progressives even though they are going to throw a fit when she panders to the centrists and the corporate overlords.

    The system is made and controlled by the billionaires. No hard progressive that doesn’t play the game a little is going to get elected… right now. They will destroy anyone that threatens their billions. Everytime she goes a little too hard left they throw a fit.

    Welcome to end stage capitalism.

    JusticeForPorygon ,
    @JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world avatar

    No hard progressive that doesn’t play the game a little is going to get elected…

    Poor Bernie…

    Angry_Autist ,

    I still Bern myself, though at least Harris’s votes have aligned with Bernie’s more than any other congressman.

    JusticeForPorygon ,
    @JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world avatar

    I still wonder where we would be if he won in 2016

    Angry_Autist ,

    That’s a suffering trap because we all know 1) how good it would have been, and 2) A true progressive will never be allowed the nomination as long as the DNC exists in its current form.

    Better to use that time to figure out what up and coming politicians have Bernie’s heart for when the future sentiment shifts.

    KinglyWeevil ,

    The United States went so hard on being anti-communist that we became anti community.

    HouseWolf , to linuxmemes in Activate Linux

    Shout out to my buddy who has been using an un-activated copy of Win10 for over 5 years despite being called out anytime he shares his screen.

    And yes we told him how to but “It doesn’t bother him”

    JackGreenEarth ,

    You mean, you told him the free and easy github script?

    HouseWolf ,

    Maaaaybe, Who’s asking?

    waz ,

    Mass grave dot dev?

    QuazarOmega ,

    nice try, mr nutella

    Sylvartas ,

    Wait there’s a free and easy GitHub script ? I bought an OEM key for 2 bucks like a sucker

    Seraph , to science_memes in OK.
    @Seraph@fedia.io avatar

    Neil, if you're gonna speak relatively but are exclusively comparing stars, you're going to have to be more specific.

    Relatively speaking, stars are hot compared to the rest of the universe.

    Tlaloc_Temporal ,
    @Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca avatar

    The surface of stars are the coolest parts anyway, even the atmosphere is way hotter.

    And no mention of neutron stars or feeding black holes? If you’re going to one up someone, at least do it right…

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