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kbin.life

TheSlad , to science_memes in We Got You

If i ever get something stuck up my ass while trying to pleasure myself and need medical help to remove it, I will absolutely try to come up with the most convoluted and ridiculous story for how it got there. Not out of embarrasment, but just to give the ER nurses a good laugh.

irreticent ,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

Again?

over_clox ,

Daily

CaptainPedantic , to science_memes in Burning Up

The only good thing about Fahrenheit is that 69 degrees (20.5 C) is a nice temperature.

expatriado ,

a 69°C cup coffee on winter is nice

Valmond , (edited )

A cup of lukewarm coffee please.

Edit: my wrong, I thought it was 69°F !

All my excuses

expatriado ,

According to James Hoffmann, the ideal temperature to enjoy coffee is between 50°C and 60°C, he may know a thing or two about coffee, and you may think the coffee you drink is hotter that it really is.

RandomStickman ,
@RandomStickman@fedia.io avatar

And you can bake things at 420

Godort ,

You could bake something at 420 Celsius too, assuming your okay with charcoal as the end product

Valmond ,

Or Pizza!

skillissuer ,
@skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

you can also bake things at 420C if you’re not a coward about this (like proper thin pizza) (maybe it’s a bit too high but you get the idea)

bufalo1973 ,
@bufalo1973@lemmy.ml avatar

Well… If it’s only for a few seconds…

stebo02 ,
@stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

ok you actually convinced me, Fahrenheit is better (except I can’t spell it properly without autocorrect)

doggle ,

I can’t spell it properly without autocorrect

This is genuinely the most inconvenient thing about Fahrenheit

Lizardking27 ,

Also it’s a 0-100 scale of how hot it is outside, and it requires no prior understanding to use it as such.

ayyy ,

The freezing point of water is very important to weather, and requires prior knowledge of the arbitrary number 32.

Lizardking27 ,

Okay so fahrenheit has a well-defined high and low, but an arbitrary freezing point of one certain chemical. All other chemical freezing points are arbitrary.

Celsius has an arbitrary high and low, but a well-defined freezing point of that same chemical. All other freezing points are arbitrary.

If your motivation is to minimize the amount of arbitrary values you have to memorize, fahrenheit is the clear winner.

criticon ,

The 0 in Fahrenheit was based on nothing and the 100F was supposed to be human temperature but it is off by some degrees

The water is not an arbitrary temperature, the weather is water dependant, at 0C the water will freeze and you get snow/ice instead of rain

actually ,

0°F is when the ocean freezes

100° F was human body temperature, later revised somewhat with better measurements and a decrease of parasites . The average person in those days in London had a slightly higher body temperature than today

criticon ,

0F is not ocean freezing, is the freezing temp of a brine mix that he chose arbitrarily (some think that he chose that temp because it was close to the coldest his town had ever been and he used it to calibrate the scales of his thermometers)

FYI, the ocean freezes at around 28F

actually ,

Oceans freezing also depends on currents, and mixing of the water from the surface. 28° will freeze water in a room.

This is why often the ocean is not frozen at much lower temperatures.

I’m not at all cognizant of how 0 was decided

AFKBRBChocolate ,

The zero C is freezing and 100 C is boiling, so not really arbitrary.

But it’s pretty hard to define a scale that has intuitive, round numbers for everything we might care about.

Lizardking27 ,

You’re correct. In a lab setting, 0C and 100C are not arbitrary.

In the weather forecast, they are.

Which ties into your final point, it’s hard to define a scale that is best for everything, which is exactly what I’ve been saying this whole time. Fahrenheit is better for some things, Celsius for others.

The only reason people in this thread are saying otherwise is because for some reason they’ve tied up some significant part of their self-worth into their belief that “lmao DAE fahrenheit bad amirite??1?”, and they mistakenly believe that those of us that understand nuance are trying to belittle or disparage them in some way. I assure you, we are not.

KillingTimeItself , (edited )

0C and 100C are not arbitrary.

well i mean technically, the only reason they aren’t arbitrary is because the mean something, the numbers arent significant, it’s what they represent, which is the boiling/freezing point of water.

The only reason people in this thread are saying otherwise is because for some reason they’ve tied up some significant part of their self-worth into their belief that “lmao DAE fahrenheit bad amirite??1?”, and they mistakenly believe that those of us that understand nuance are trying to belittle or disparage them in some way. I assure you, we are not.

i’m seeing people put very little thought into the things they’re saying, i just recently posted a comment covering a few of those things in this thread. For some reason europeans seem to just get absolutely brainfucked when presented with the concept of a unit system that isn’t metric, it’s like your literal entire lives are built upon the concept of 0 10 100 scaling, and you can’t consider literally anything outside of it.

Now maybe i’m being a little hyperbolic here, but US peeps pretty well understand that we could just “be using celsius” that’s not really a wacky concept or idea here. Celsius peeps really seem to think that if they had to use fahrenheit, they would probably die from accidental over-consumption of water, somehow. And in their defense, a lot of our shit is kinda fucking weird. But again, it’s really not that bad.

at least, this has been my experience from the various threads i’ve been in on this topic over time.

ayyy ,

It’s not like the weather depends on the boiling point of formaldehyde…

doggle , (edited )

Is it? Only pure water will actually freeze at 0c. Rain, puddles, lakes, etc aren’t all that pure… And we’re talking about ambient air temps here. The air can be below freezing and it can still rain. And you can get snow/hail above freezing…

Knowing the freezing point is just one factor. Knowing it’s generally around 30F is pretty much always close enough (not that remembering 32 is actually very difficult)

Edit: also water only freezes at 0c if it’s at sea level… I really don’t think 0°=freezing is the huge advantage that celcius stans think it is.

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah, and let me know how accurate our weather models and prediction systems are. Can you calculate accurately how much the temperature in a specific part of the atmosphere will drop to a large updraft?

What’s that? This is literally an entire career field of study and development? Oh that’s weird.

Also the only real time this is relevant, is when things that have this weird property called thermal mass get below freezing, it’s snowing in 30f weather? That’s not sticking, the ground is too warm. or the sun will literally just melt it even if it is cold enough. Water? You mean that weird thing called like, a lake or river? Those get below freezing, without actively freezing, lakes won’t even drop that much in terms of temperature, aside from the surface level. The surface may freeze, but even that is pretty variable.

Also yes, it’s the arbitrary number of 32, so is literally every number though. We have 2 numbers to remember, you also have 2 numbers to remember, god forbid you have like, a password, or a passcode, or like, a numbers based lock somewhere. Humans have never been known to be good at memorizing short strings of data.

like idk how to tell you this, but, it’s not that big of a deal?

Mrs_deWinter ,

If that was true outsiders should be able to use Fahrenheit without much explanation. I’ve never got a clue what the °F values mean, I always have to use a converter. It’s really not as intuitive as people who grew up with it seem to believe.

KillingTimeItself ,

If that was true outsiders should be able to use Fahrenheit without much explanation. I’ve never got a clue what the °F values mean, I always have to use a converter. It’s really not as intuitive as people who grew up with it seem to believe.

because it’s all relative, and you need to actually know how the temperatures relate to the things you’re experiencing? I’m going to hazard a guess and say you’re comfortable with using celsius? Oops cognitive bias. You would have to test this on someone who doesn’t understand temperature yet. It just so happens that here in the US, it pretty conveniently lines up with those figures for us.

Mrs_deWinter ,

If your example cannot be proven on any existing person I’d argue it’s hardly relevant to our reality.

°F most definitely isn’t intuitive enough for people who aren’t accustomed to it to use. If it is more intuitive at all, it’s not to any meaningful degree.

KillingTimeItself , (edited )

If your example cannot be proven on any existing person I’d argue it’s hardly relevant to our reality.

possibly? Arguably you could still make the case that the existing range of 0-100f is more pleasant, and arguably nicer to use. But you would have to either find someone uniquely adapted to both systems, or you would have to do a lot of independent study on how humans interact with numbers and ranges of numbers. In order to find a specific answer it’s going to be quite hard.

intuition is bullshit anyway, it’s highly predicated on previous experience and an existing knowledge base, so i feel like that’s kind of arguing “well a race car driver drives good, so why don’t normal drivers drive good” kind of territory if you arent careful.

Mrs_deWinter ,

Yeah, which is why most people here in favor of Celcius argue that Fahrenheit isn’t, in fact, more intuitive and therefore more suited to describe the weather. Both are arbitrary, both can be learned and used very easily, the only difference is what you’re used to.

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah, but i think arguing that celsius is “more intuitive” when the one primary advantage outside of science is that it lines up with water relatively nicely compared to fahrenheit, is like, ok.

32f and 212f and 0c and 100c aren’t really all that substantially different as far as the general use case goes.

Mrs_deWinter ,

arguing that celsius is “more intuitive”

Nobody is arguing that though.

KillingTimeItself ,

which is why most people here in favor of Celcius argue that Fahrenheit isn’t, in fact, more intuitive and therefore more suited to describe the weather.

hmm.

Mrs_deWinter ,

“Fahrenheit isn’t more intuitive” doesn’t not mean “Celcius is more intuitive”. You’re mistaken if you think that’s what’s being argued here.

Neither one is intuitive. Intuition isn’t a useful metric here anyway. After all we could ask: Which one is more intuitive - kilometers or miles? Kilograms or pounds? Do we have to change how me measure time (base 12) to a base 10 as well, would that be more intuitive?

Answer is no. All those units have to be learned and filled with experience anyway. Nobody can interpret temperature scales intuitively, neither Fahrenheit nor Celsius.

Fahrenheit simply has no advantage over Celcius. And it doesn’t have to. Some people are used to it, so keep using it by all means. Don’t argue that it’s superior and we’re all good.

KillingTimeItself ,

“Fahrenheit isn’t more intuitive” doesn’t not mean “Celcius is more intuitive”. You’re mistaken if you think that’s what’s being argued here.

i mean, fundamentally that’s what that statement would have to mean, unless you’re referring to a rock being more intuitive or something.

Why would you mention that fahrenheit isn’t as intuitive as celsius, if celsius wasn’t objectively more intuitive? Also why did you use a triple negative?

Neither one is intuitive. Intuition isn’t a useful metric here anyway. After all we could ask: Which one is more intuitive - kilometers or miles? Kilograms or pounds? Do we have to change how me measure time (base 12) to a base 10 as well, would that be more intuitive?

ultimately yeah, neither system is more intuitive than the other. Celsius has a nice use case in science and research, but that’s about it. fahrenheit isn’t really used anywhere outside of weather, and cooking, where it also doesn’t really matter, and no cooking is not “water based chemistry” as someone tried to propose.

also technically time isn’t really in base 12. one year is 12 months, is 31-30 days, is 24 hours, is 60 minutes, is 60 seconds, is then broken into tenths, hundreths, and thousandths of a second from there, etc… It’s not quite one specific system, just a hodgepodge of multiple different structures.

Fahrenheit simply has no advantage over Celcius. And it doesn’t have to. Some people are used to it, so keep using it by all means. Don’t argue that it’s superior and we’re all good.

exactly! I’m not arguing that fahrenheit is better, i’m just trying to get europeans to think it isn’t the single most useless system in the world because they spent 12 seconds thinking about things and got confused when they didn’t spend and more time on it.

I think a lot of people in this thread are just being objectively stupid, and not quite realizing it, and thus saying silly things that don’t make any sense. Europeans seem to do this a lot whenever the US customary unit system comes up in discussion, and i don’t understand why.

Mrs_deWinter ,

i mean, fundamentally that’s what that statement would have to mean, unless you’re referring to a rock being more intuitive or something.

ultimately yeah, neither system is more intuitive than the other.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

KillingTimeItself ,

hey man, i didn’t make the claim. i’m just came here to complain about celsius users not thinking about things. If you can find an example of me saying fahrenheit is more intuitive, i’ll have to eat my words.

Mrs_deWinter ,

Originally you replied to me, replying to someone else claiming fahrenheit was “a 0-100 scale of how hot it is outside” and required “no prior understanding to use it as such”. This was never about Celsius being intuitive or not, it was about Fahrenheit. If you didn’t disagree with me there, your replies to me were pointless. Since then you seem to be arguing against a straw man.

I never claimed Celcius to be intuitive, in fact I claimed the opposite - neither scale is intuitive. Therefore Fahrenheit and Celcius are equally useful in measuring the weather and the idea of Fahrenheit being especially suitable is incorrect, based on the confirmation bias of those who are already used to it. That’s the only argument I’m making here.

Rivalarrival ,

Exactly. Fahrenheit is just metric weather.

stardust , to android in What Browser do you use on Android, and why?

Firefox because nothing has blocked ads as well as Ublock Origin has. DNS is for other apps but for browser Firefox has been king.

Diplomjodler3 , to science_memes in Quantum Opinions

You cannot see the toys move but you can see if they’ve moved around or changed something in their environment. That’s pretty much how particle physics works.

aeronmelon ,
TimeSquirrel , to linuxmemes in Concept: beer that is free as in freedom, not as in gratis
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org avatar

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Beer, is in fact, GNU/Beer, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Beer. Beer is not an alcoholic drink unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU hops, rye, and fermentation process comprising a full libation as defined by POSIX.

calabast , to asklemmy in How would you react if Reddit joined the fediverse?

I meaaaan, while I did join Lemmy because I was sick of reddit the company’s greedy decisions, I do miss the amount of users and content it has/generates. If reddit joining the fediverse meant they couldn’t dictate what app I use to view their posts, I probably would enjoy being able to browse their content again.

Fubarberry ,
@Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz avatar

You can kinda already do that, apps like rdx, Stealth, and Geddit pull reddit content without using the API. You can’t vote/comment, but you can still follow communities that have worthwhile content.

VelvetStorm ,

I can still use reddit reader

danhab99 ,
@danhab99@programming.dev avatar

Same tbh idk if it’s the community or the app for me

Aurenkin , to linuxmemes in It's complicated

Careful, Windows can be vomit inducing.

ininewcrow ,
@ininewcrow@lemmy.ca avatar

And cause uncontrollable diarrhea

Steamymoomilk ,

Its from crowd strike its terminal, and not in a gnu/linux way

SomethingBurger ,

So that’s why she died in the series!

Fisch ,
@Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Should probably put a spoiler on that

bitwaba ,

It’s been a decade. They’ll live.

She wont

InFerNo , to asklemmy in My wife, newly hired, was asked to un-blur her camera during a routine meeting to confirm her I9 information. This seems like a violation to me?

“Sorry, this is a shared office and my partner is working under NDA”

booly ,

No such thing as an NDA that allows a spouse to work in the same room, and allows the spouse to actually be on video while blurred, but draws the line at not being able to unblur the video.

grrgyle ,

It is it’s the NDA you made your partner sign.

JackbyDev ,

There is and unfortunately I cannot show you the NDA as the NDA won’t allow me to show you the NDA. The NDA does allow me talk about the conditions in general like this though.

quantenzitrone , to science_memes in Invention rule
@quantenzitrone@lemmings.world avatar
Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar
solsangraal , to science_memes in My Empire of Podzols

you know you’re old when you’re salty about kids thinking the cover version is the original

Bishma ,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’m old enough to have bought Downworld Spiral on release day, and I think Reznor wrote that song for Cash. It just took him and the the rest of us 20 years to realize it.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,
@the_post_of_tom_joad@hexbear.net avatar

Reznor is on record saying it’s cash’s song now so op is only mostly wrong :)

GiantRobotTRex ,

People say this a lot and I believe it’s based on this quote:

I pop the video in, and wow… Tears welling, silence, goose-bumps… Wow. [I felt like] I just lost my girlfriend, because that song isn’t mine anymore… It really made me think about how powerful music is as a medium and art form. I wrote some words and music in my bedroom as a way of staying sane, about a bleak and desperate place I was in, totally isolated and alone. [Somehow] that winds up reinterpreted by a music legend from a radically different era/genre and still retains sincerity and meaning — different, but every bit as pure.

Many people seem to interpret “that song isn’t mine anymore” to mean “that song is now Cash’s”. But here’s another quote:

Then I got a CD in the post. I listened to it and it was very strange. It was this other person inhabiting my most personal song. I’d known where I was when I wrote it. I know what I was thinking about. I know how I felt. Hearing it was like someone kissing your girlfriend. It felt invasive.

To me, that doesn’t sound like he’s saying it’s Cash’s song now or that Cash’s version is better. It’s more that Cash proved to him that even though this was a deeply personal song about his own life and struggles that he’s not the only one capable of doing it justice. He realized that other talented artists can take that song about him and transform it into a song about them. The song’s not his anymore because it could be anyone’s song.

gazter ,

I’ve witnessed a lot of talk about this song- I love me a good cover- and this is the first time I’ve read this quote. Thanks for that, it gives some great context.

Ed: pretty sure this is the original source: www.theninhotline.net/archives/articles/…/11

the_post_of_tom_joad ,
@the_post_of_tom_joad@hexbear.net avatar

Thank you for this context.

solsangraal ,

there are tons of covers that i love better than the original (if i like the original at all). just one example is lacuna coil’s enjoy the silence

scaramobo ,

Narrator: it was not.

Crazyslinkz ,

Don’t look up something like all along the watch tower…

Written by Dylan and performed by Hendrix.

huf ,

it happens like that sometimes. see also jimi’s all along the watchtower.

lolcatnip ,

Reznor wrote that song

That’s the important part.

Anticorp ,

That said, Cash absolutely fuckin nailed that cover. I think it’s way more emotional than the original. I’m sure Trent was proud as fuck at what Cash did to his song.

Diddlydee ,

Johnny Cash always nailed covers. He makes songs I thought were average sound great, and you believe every word he sings.

Anticorp ,

As a bonus, his version is way easier to play on guitar.

GunValkyrie ,

I know it’s not a popular opinion but I don’t think Johnny cash understood Trents original meaning of the song and turned it into a self aggrandizing song. Especially the change from “I wear this crown of shit” to “I wear this crown of thorns”.

It just doesn’t hit like the NIN version which clearly came from a very personal place.

Asafum ,

I think it’s similar, I think the thorns are the pain of regret that he wears for all that he has done. The crown of shit is similar in that it’s worthless, he’s a king of nothing.

mriormro ,
@mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

He absolutely did and it’s an unpopular opinion because you’re positing that a song man who’d been in the business for 50 years couldn’t understand the meaning.

He changed the line because of his faith, mostly.

P00ptart ,

If his faith was in conflict with the song, he should’ve left it tf alone.

aphlamingphoenix ,

Exactly this. It also lacks the gravity of an entire concept album preceding it and two minutes of static death sounds at the end. It’s a sanitized cover of a song that shouldn’t be sanitized.

OlinOfTheHillPeople ,

Unpopular opinion: His versions of One and Rusted Cage are better than the originals.

Raiderkev ,

He’s out and said it’s Johnny’s song now.

xantoxis ,

Right? Like damn, I know that was a good cover but have we already forgotten it was a NiN song?

MindTraveller ,

I love Fallen Kingdom. Who the fuck is Coldplay?

SkybreakerEngineer , to science_memes in SubSpace

Of course exploring subspace should be adults only. Can you imagine how irresponsible it would be to hand a Starfleet ship to a bunch of half trained kids?

swab148 ,
@swab148@lemm.ee avatar

New series idea!

thevoidzero ,

I remember there being something like this already. The final mission happens as they say “this is the final training for you”. The enemy (aliens) behave differently than expected in this final simulation because they are not immediately aggressive and are waiting while defending their location, but the child successfully eliminates them. And later learns that was the actual aliens and not the simulation. And the aliens were just trying to find a place and protect their new generation, or sth.

DarkenLM ,

I think that was Ender's Game.

thevoidzero ,

Yup, looks like that movie. Thanks, I didn’t remember the name.

AngryCommieKender ,

The book is much better. Translating genius to the screen is difficult at best, and they (the director and producers,) didn’t seem to understand the objective.

swab148 ,
@swab148@lemm.ee avatar

The first one was great, the rest of them not so much

tigeruppercut ,

The 2nd one was pretty good too. 3 and 4 went kinda off the rails. But then the Bean series was interesting again.

Ragnarok314159 ,

4 was a weird ride, but the last fifty pages ended the series well for me. Enough that when I closed the book there was a moment of sadness that the story I read as a child was finally concluded.

Bean books were amazing. Bought them all on hardback for $5 and felt guilty thinking they should have been more.

awesome_lowlander ,

If only the author was as amazing as his characters

Ragnarok314159 ,

I have a book with his autograph and a picture with him, and then a few years later learned who he really is. Made me sad.

theneverfox ,
@theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

In the books, they didn’t understand we were individuals at first, and when they did they were horrified. They were never going to send a third wave, they wanted to find a way to communicate, but humanity just kept cutting a swath to the home world where all the queens lived.

By the final battle, they had managed to connect with Ender, but he was a warped child genius collapsing under the pressure. In the end, they basically accepted their fate out of guilt, and left a baby queen imprinted with their monitors hidden in stasis on one of the colony worlds they had taken

then_three_more ,

Star Trek Prodigy.

And it’s bloody brilliant.

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

Prodigy?

chatokun ,

It was an accident rather than intentional, but this matches Warframe lore.

hendrik , to nostupidquestions in New to Lemmy. I have a couple of questions.

Btw: It's good you signed up with a smaller instance. Ideally we want the users to spread across instances. So for example lemmy.world doesn't gain too much power (which it already has). So signing up on a different instance is a good thing for the Fediverse.

Mighty ,
@Mighty@lemmy.world avatar

What’s the danger there? (Just curious)

Riven ,
@Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Same as reddit, every instance can choose to just start monetizing if they wish and even stop being part of the fediverse. If they get too big and decide to do it then it’ll be a blow to the content on all the fediverse. That’s why it’s better to spread out a bit more to avoid one big instance controlling the whole.

Blaze ,

Happy cake day

lord_ryvan ,

Aw, I thought we all agreed on beans day?

MindTraveller ,

If the LW admins decide to wrongfully ban someone, that person is banned from a lot of communities and from interacting with a lot of people. In a more equal network, each individual bad decision has a smaller effect on the whole

hendrik , (edited )

First of all we had big instances die. Like feddit.de and kbin.social That always damages a big part of the network. If things were distributed more evenly, it'd be a smaller chunk of the fediverse that vanishes in such a case.

Then, being way bigger than the others gives someone disproportionately bigger power. If you're not having any issue with that, you might as well join Reddit. And the first big Lemmy instance (lemmy.ml) arguably explots(?) that. They'll act against you once you say something negative about communism, China, ... and that's not okay to do. Now we have lemmy.world as the biggest instance and it's way better. But still I've also read people complain about their moderation practices.

If we have some dominating entities, they'll disproportionately shape the tone, atmosphere and behaviour on the whole network. We might or might not want that.

In the end I think what actually happens should reflect the vision and the capabilities of the software. The Fediverse is supposed to be an interconnected network of instances. If the technology works as intended (and the vision behind the Fediverse is correct) I expect that to manifest in the way it actually grows. If it favors one or two large instances, we either might have an issue with the technology/software and it's not able to truly achieve it because of some shortcomings. Or the idea behind all of it might not be more a theoretical concept than viable in the real world.

If we want to look at it in the end-state, we have email as an example. That's a super old federated standard and now also dominated by a few big players. It's still possible to host your own email. But not really fun because of lots of complications that come with it.

[Edit: The dynamics could also be viewed as competition succeeding. If someone does their job well, they'll naturally attract people?! And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm not sure what to make of this. And I'm not sure if that's the dynamics at play here in the first place.]

Mighty ,
@Mighty@lemmy.world avatar

hey I really appreciate the insight and the explanation! you made me understand that concern and helped me learn :) thanks!

hendrik ,

Thanks for the kind words 😊

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

If LW admins really care about the fediverse, they probably should close their registrations for the time being, otherwise every newbie will start joining LW because it is the biggest instance out there.

hendrik , (edited )

On the flipside, that also scares people away. New users want to take part and immediately hit a barrier. The place where everyone mingles is closed off. They have to learn why that is and how the Fediverse is supposed to work, find some instance overview list and make a choice. Be angry for a short while until they understand the concept and realize it's for the better... I think that'd be detrimental to the cause. I rather live with the issues that come with big instances than with a complicated onboarding process. But I think people already complained about onboarding on the Fediverse in general. I think we need to solve that issue first and then we can go ahead and also add some mechanism to steer people towards a more even distribution. But I don't see anyone working on any of that for Lemmy. Until then, I'd say don't do it.

(And btw: I don't want to see lemmy.world shrink, which wold be the outcome. What I'd like to see is other nice instances come into existence and grow to a similar size. Because they're a nice place and people can identify themselves with the community there. It'd foster good behaviour if things happened because of some good reasons. Not just you grow because you're already the biggest. That doesn't foster anything. It's just like playing Osmos.)

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

Naturally. This is the fediverse, if newbies don’t want to understand how it works even a little bit, they shouldn’t be here.

And lemmy.world won’t shrink. I said “for the time being”, not forever. If LW keeps growing rapidly without giving other instances a chance, then it won’t be any different than Reddit.

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

There’s also no fix for the “onboarding problem”. That “problem” is federation itself.

hendrik ,

Well, there are some proposals to change this. I'd say it's fixable by technology to some degree. For example instead of a sign up page that directly signs someone up with the specific instance, we could have a more general Fediverse signup page. Maybe ask the new user a few questions what they envision their instance to be. If they're more aligned with this set of rules or the other. If they want "free speech" or a place with more moderation and less argumentative people. And then make some suggestions.

Or instead of just signing them up with whatever instance they visited first, display a list of the current instance and 5 other random ones, shuffle them and make them deliberately click on one of them.

That'd all help. Of course it can't be solved 100%. But we could at least make an effort to do something about it.

Asudox , (edited )
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

That’s what join-lemmy.org does. It asks 2 questions:

  • What theme they are the most interested in
  • What language they mainly use on the web
Blaze ,

I know if offers options to people, but the majority of people don’t want options, they want a single website

I guess a balanced approach would be to suggest Lemm.ee as a default option, and suggest the join Lemmy link for people curious about options

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

A default option is bad imo. We want a decentralized platform. Distribution will keep the fediverse alive and well. Maybe a dynamic “default” option would be one solution. One that just changes the default option to a different somewhat known instance once the current default option reaches a certain user count. For this to work, you’d need to lead people to join-lemmy.org.

hendrik , (edited )

Yeah. My proposal is to replace the "Sign up" entry on every single instance with a page like that. And move the actual sign up one level further down, so everyone needs to click through that process.

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

Why? That’s really ineffective and just looks bad imo. That’s just a solution to people linking instances to join instead of leading people to join-lemmy.org.

hendrik , (edited )

Because what the user wants is to sign up on Lemmy. We have to meet them at exactly that point. When they click on "Sign up". And then our motive comes at play. We want to say to them »Hey stop, In case you don't know, the Fediverse works differently than other social media platforms you might be used to. You have to make a decision here.« And I think it's super effective to do it at that point. Doing it later is too late, because then they're already signed up on a random place without being informed. And doing it earlier is inconvenient. They might not be motivated to find out yet. Or it's a hassle to gather that info yourself without even knowing it's a thing.

And why is the way the Fediverse works looking bad? If it seems that way to you, you're might be wrong here. So even more reason to prominently display these kinds of things.

And it doesn't have to be complicated. As with software design in general, don't overwhelm the user with options. Just offer a description on what's happening and why. And give some sane default options. Don't make it more than let's say 5-10. And it's just one click more in the process. It's not too hard for the user to click once more if it's for a good cause. And if done right, they could just randomly click on something if in doubt.

I'd just make it like in my earlier proposal. Add the page. Force the user to choose. Either they want to answer a few questions and get a tailored instance. Or sign up at the current instance. Or sign up at one of the 4 other instances we promote for a better distribution. And then continue to ask for a username and password.

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

That’s extra work to be done when we already have a join-lemmy.org website by the official devs that does what you want. People changing the link in their comments from lemmy.world to join-lemmy.org is not hard, is it?

hendrik , (edited )

But why have an extra website? I just don't see the point. That's just extra work. And a good amount of people will never find out it's there and get here in a different way. We could just do away with all of that.

This way the Lemmy devs have to maintain a seperate website. Curate a list of instances. I have to agree with that. Everyone has to remember to always post links to join-lemmy.org. Users who're just lurking and deciding to go to the menu and just click "sign up" will miss that information. All of that to save someone from doing a single click?

Asudox , (edited )
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

Assuming most people use Google, when searching for “lemmy”, it is the third search before some guy named lemmy and when searching for “join lemmy” (logically) it’s the first. So we can conclude that people don’t use it because most of the people link to lemmy.world and not to join-lemmy.org. Most likely not everyone searches for “join lemmy” anyways since most people come from Reddit.

hendrik , (edited )

I fail to see any connection with what I said. Sure. The name "Lemmy" is a bit unfortunate. Given that it's not discoverable via Google search.

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

Wdym not discoverable. Lemmy instances have been indexed for years

hendrik ,

I don't think I agree. The big difference in total users and monthly active users tells me lots of people abandon their accounts. As long as that policy is in place, it'll naturally shrink because people leave and there aren't any new users anymore to replace them. The only question is at what rate that's going to happen.

And I also don't agree with people who don't understand the Fediverse shouldn't be here... People should be here because it's a nice place and they have a good time engaging here. The exact technology behind it shouldn't matter too much. If at all.

Asudox ,
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

I never said “people who don’t understand”, I said “people who don’t want to understand”. I am satisfied as long as a newbie knows what the fediverse is, why it is here and what instances are. They are the basics, aren’t they?

hendrik ,

I'm also not sure about that. Do they really need to be bothered with that? Can't they just expect a social media platform to do whatever? Without learning anything? I mean they might just want to use something and not be bothered. And arguably they'll have more freedom here then they'd have for example on Reddit where this isn't any issue. I'd say design the software to get out of their way, cater for them and have them here. I mean ultimately there is a limit. Sometimes you need to know how things actually work to get anywhere. But I still refuse to accept your point. I think that should be kept to a minimum. And users should be eased into it at the point it becomes necessary to know. That can be done by good software design.

Asudox , (edited )
@Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

The reason is simply because this is not the kind of social media people have been using for years. Just like how they “learned” how the centralized web works, they also should learn how the decentralized web works. I’m all for the fediverse to grow but I also don’t want ignorant people that don’t want to learn anything about the tech they’ll be using in here.

Quality over quantity or quantity over quality? Choose.

hendrik , (edited )

Yeah. I think in theory I disagree with you. But in practice I agree. I've seen people do exactly that. And almost everytime that behaviour comes from a place that also causes more issues. These people are better off with something else. I agree. And usually they're annoying (to me) anyways so I don't consider them a loss for the platform.

And I also regularly complain about the internet having become less than it used to be. Back then when it took some skill and effort to operate a computer and be on the internet, it was filled with intelligent people and people who were there for some reason. That meant they were motivated enough to go through all the hassle. You could engage with them in a different way than you nowadays do with the average user. Now everyone is here and lots of places and discussions feel different. It certainly affects things. So there is that.

It's the same question if I ponder whether Linux should be used by more people. There are some other dynamics at play with that. But in the end, growing to a broader audience (on the desktop) is certainly going to change it. And I'm not sure if in a good way.

Transporter_Room_3 , to science_memes in Picture Unrelated
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

Huh.

Last time I saw this, I was on reddit, and it said “from 4chan”

I wonder if I’ll see it say “from lemmy” someday?

paw ,

I wonder if I’ll see it say “from lemmy” someday?

That’s the spirit!

fossilesque OP ,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar
prex ,
RandomVideos ,

Which lemmy instance would be the best to doing this?

madjo ,

programming.dev, definitely. :)

Akasazh ,
@Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

I hope it’ll stay sightly more niche and tech-user forward tbh. I followed reddits decline for over a decade and love how Lemmy is less ubiquitous.

Comment105 ,

Lemmy sounds too dumb, that could never happen.

It’ll remain but a curious whiff downwind from Spez’s backyard mass grave, no unfamiliar passerby will ever recognize what it is or give it much thought beyond asking “What the fuck is that…?” without pausing their stride much if at all.

Cap , to science_memes in Bees is fish.
@Cap@kbin.melroy.org avatar

The 1970 act explicitly protected “fish,” which were initially defined as invertebrates. And because the act has protected snails and other invertebrates that live on land since, Tuesday’s ruling said it interpreted the legislation to also include bees.

I'd link to the article but it's a nightmare.

Mothra ,
@Mothra@mander.xyz avatar

Ohhh I see so they initially defined fish as invertebrates. Got it.

cornshark ,

Yeah, it all makes sense when you know the full story

Mnemnosyne ,

None of this makes sense, but you can at least follow the nonsensical chain of events if you know the full story.

MindTraveller ,

Fish have spines, you asshole regulators

Leate_Wonceslace ,
@Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

We need scientists advising every lawmaker.

AVincentInSpace ,

To clarify, though, we do not need scientists to tell lawmakers that bees are not fish. We need scientists to tell lawmakers not to put conservation laws into effect that only cover fish, and then not publish any new ones so we have to keep expanding that one by reclassifying more and more things as fish.

ignotum ,
  1. Make conservation law protecting crabs
  2. Carcinisation
  3. Profit Conservation
skulblaka ,
@skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

But… Fish are vertebrates… They have a spine… What?

essteeyou ,

It’s ok, it’s just like flammable and inflammable.

Anticorp ,

Ssshhhh… Just let it go. Objective reality no longer exists.

Notyou ,

US also passed something stated that pizza is a vegetable, for the purposes of providing kids nutrients in school. They based that result in the fact that pizza has tomatoes in the sauce. Nevermind tomatoes are a fruit.

The people that make the rules that govern our lives have a disconnect with us.

RarePossum ,

Vegetables don’t exist, they’re just edible plants. It’s a superset that contains fruits, leaves, stems, flowers geophytes and many more reeeeeeeee

Darohan , to linux in The Best way to switch to Linux is to NOT

Was ready to downvote but this is actually a really good guide, well done OP! The one issue I will raise, though, because I faced it myself, is that as long as you’re still using Windows, it is way too easy to just go back to using the Windows programs not the open source ones. Only through switching to Linux can you really “throw yourself into the deep end” and force yourself to learn these new things. Microsoft has made themselves the “path of least resistance” (or at least that of “most momentum” for a reason) and if you’ve been using a computer for a while, it’s a lot easier to break the habits and realise the benefits by giving yourself no other option than it is by trying to discipline yourself into using the new options.

Nilz ,

Agreed, this has been my experience as well. I tried switching to full time Linux multiple times. I had already used it on my laptop for years but on my desktop I kept going back to Windows because things on Windows just worked the way I wanted and thought that for some things there weren’t any Linux alternatives.

That was until two years ago I challenged myself to only use Linux for a month. I’ve been using Linux on my desktop ever since and only use Windows now and then to play a single game that doesn’t work on Linux due to anti cheat.

fmstrat ,

And Debian could be used instead of Mint. Almost all the Ubuntu support online applies, except no snap requirement.

Also, start using WSL for random things you do in GUI today to learn CLI/bash.

But yea, great guide.

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