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Chinese students in US tell of ‘chilling’ interrogations and deportations

As tensions with China rise, scientists at America’s leading universities complain of stalled research after crackdown at airports

Stopped at the border, interrogated on national security grounds, laptops and mobile phones checked, held for several hours, plans for future research shattered. ⠀

Earlier this month the Chinese embassy in Washington said more than 70 students “with legal and valid materials” had been deported from the US since July 2021, with more than 10 cases since November 2023. The embassy said it had complained to the US authorities about each case. ⠀

“The impact is huge,” says Qin Yan, a professor of pathology at Yale School of Medicine in Connecticut, who says that he is aware of more than a dozen Chinese students from Yale and other universities who have been rejected by the US in recent months, despite holding valid visas. Experiments have stalled, and there is a “chilling effect” for the next generation of Chinese scientists. ⠀

The refusals appear to be linked to a 2020 US rule that barred Chinese postgraduate students with links to China’s “military-civil fusion strategy”, which aims to leverage civilian infrastructure to support military development. The Australian Strategic Policy Institute thinktank estimates that 95 civilian universities in China have links to the defence sector.

Nearly 2,000 visas applications were rejected on that basis in 2021. But now people who pass the security checks necessary to be granted a visa by the State Department are being turned away at the border by CBP, a different branch of government.

“It is very hard for a CBP officer to really evaluate the risk of espionage,” said Dan Berger, an immigration lawyer in Massachusetts, who represents a graduate student at Yale who, midway through her PhD, was sent back from Washington’s Dulles airport in December, and banned from re-entering the US for five years. ⠀

Academics say that scrutiny has widened to different fields – particularly medical sciences – with the reasons for the refusals not made clear.

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UraniumBlazer ,

Not surprising when China is accused of stealing IPs and stuff like that…

Kyle_The_G ,

I was going to say, this has been an issue at universities for a long time. On one hand I feel bad for the students but on the other there is a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed

Arcturus ,

Yeah, it’s terrible how capitalists and their megacorps might not profit as much if that’s happening…

(which it isn’t these days btw; countries like the US and China violated bullshit british IP laws when industrializing, and they don’t really need to do that once they are industrialized)

ed_cock ,

You are making it sound like China and its large corporations weren’t also very interested in profits and market domination.

Arcturus ,

That’s included in the “industrializing” part, no?

Under capitalism, industrialization and therefore “market domination” realistically means ignoring the laws meant to keep competition down.

Arelin ,

Lmao liberals getting mad at (in this case non-existent) “violations” of laws that only exist to protect the capitalist class is always funny

Intellectual property shouldn’t exist in the first place; it kills millions of people every year from patented drugs, etc. and it did so in Africa during covid.

MxM111 ,

Those drugs wouldn’t be developed in the first place, if there were no IP. The system is not ideal, but I would rather address its issues than destroy everything completely. When hous is on fire, the right thing is put out the fire, not to destroy the town.

OurToothbrush ,

Cuba literally developed vaccines without IP nonsense, your argument kinda rings hollow

MxM111 ,

It is not impossible, but are you seriously want to compare pharmaceutical advancements of Cuba and US? You can even compare USSR and USA at the time. USSR medicine was significantly behind.

Rebels_Droppin ,
@Rebels_Droppin@lemmy.world avatar

Cuba is incredibly farther ahead than the US in the medical field

MxM111 ,

Source? I would like to see how cuban pharmaceuticals are more advanced than that in US. Until you show concrete proof, I will say this is made up statement.

Rebels_Droppin ,
@Rebels_Droppin@lemmy.world avatar
MxM111 ,

That does not compare advancement in pharmaceuticals at all. It only say that it has good healthcare system. Which I agree is better than in US in coverage, but that’s it. If US had universal healthcare, it arguably would be better, but it says nothing about the need to drop IP. To my knowledge US pharmaceuticals is simply leading in the world, not even comparable to Cuba. Again, comparison with USSR would be better, at least they were of comparable size, and this comparison is still in US favor by large degree.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

Cuba has 3% of the population of the US. I think it is fair to say they have disproportionately more medical advancement than expected for their population and wealth level.

MxM111 ,

I am not sure “advancement per person” is right metric - the more advances the much harder to make those. This is why I was suggesting to compare it to USSR - fair comparison.

Arelin ,

When hous is on fire, the right thing is put out the fire

The fire is the capitalist laws like IP; the “hous” is a country’s development. So yes, the fire should be put out.

TheUncannyObserver ,

Your comment is pretty ridiculous when you consider that multiple times in history, the scientists who invented vaccines or treatments that saved millions of people put those inventions into the public domain.

The idea that without capitalism, there is no innovation, is ridiculous. Capitalism is a fairly new idea in history, you’ve just fallen for the propaganda.

MxM111 ,

Sure, some medicine would be developed, not claiming that there would be none. But there would be less. Profit motivation is one hell of a drug (pun not intended). Compare USSR and USA at the time. It is actually incomparable in terms of advancement of drugs and medical devices and even dentistry. What kills is absence of universal insurance, not presence of IP.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

And yet compare life expectancies and you find a very different story. Why is that?

BaldProphet ,
@BaldProphet@kbin.social avatar
queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Interesting! I just assumed because communist states like Cuba and China have higher life expectancies than the US that the USSR would too, I guess I didn’t consider how much less developed they were than modern communist states.

BaldProphet ,
@BaldProphet@kbin.social avatar

China does have a higher life expectancy than the US, but still a lower one than most other capitalist nations. You are wrong about Cuba, it still has a lower life expectancy.

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar
pingveno ,

That article needs an update. It compares US life expectancy in 2021, two years into the COVID-19 pandemic, to Cuba’s 2020 numbers. An apples-to-apples comparison shows that for 2021, Cuba was a little below the US. That’s fine, of course, that’s very good performance, especially considering the embargo. Note that the China numbers I included do not include the effects of ending the strict lockdown policy.

hglman ,

People hate saving others, you really have to give them so many incentives to care. /S

Omega_Haxors ,

and because they’re on an instance without downvotes they’re only going to see the 7 upvotes they did get. It’s 2024 why are people still buying into capitalist realism?? All the guys pushing for it have all moved on to pushing pedo-nazi shit you should be better than this.

wildncrazyguy ,

If you think all capitalists are nazis then your ideology has blinded you.

Omega_Haxors , (edited )

People pushing for capitalist realism absolutely are, and usually the nazism comes secondary to the pedophilia with those types.

Also, relevant meme:https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/eb900063-a22b-494b-8bd3-074b80cc5791.png?format=webp

wildncrazyguy ,

Never said communism is bad, friend, just that it's not a good idea to be consumed by any ideological framework - that's how you become a zealot or worse, an enabler to someone who corrupts the cause.

Omega_Haxors ,

1/10, try harder.

wildncrazyguy ,

Wow, you sure got me there with your sick memes and short blasts. You can see the ills of the world cowering by the appearance of your civil discourse.

Omega_Haxors ,

Umm that’s projection. I don’t even try to be civil, never have and never will.

wildncrazyguy ,

So much like a zoo monkey, you exist for the fascination of others, and the occasional casting of feces their way? I see. I'll continue to view you from the cage you've made for yourself then, while keeping some distance.

Omega_Haxors ,

Nah more irritating than funny. Goodbye.

wildncrazyguy ,

Not everything is meant to be funny.

AbackDeckWARLORD ,

Neo-liberals are capitalists. They just virtue signal about leftist points sometimes.

Rinox ,

While I agree that intellectual property has been abused over and over, especially in the last two decades, we need to remember the reason why patents became a thing, and that reason was to promote open research and cooperation.

Without patents the only tool businesses had to protect and exploit their inventions and discoveries was secrecy, which creates a terrible environment for research, full of espionage and subterfuge and without a library of human inventions and research ready for anyone to take and build upon.

It’s somewhat of a necessary evil, a carrot in order to incentivize businesses and individuals to share their research and their inventions, instead of keeping them to themselves in fear of someone else stealing them. It does have issues though, especially regarding the lack of a “fair” use of the monopoly the patent grants for it’s duration.

And, again, I’m talking about patents. Copyright is a whole other can of worms, way worse in some ways.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

shut up racist

nekandro ,

Stealing IP by… Publishing their own work on publicly accessible journals and conferences? The absolute horror. You don’t steal public IP, you gain (or lose) the rights to use it.

UraniumBlazer ,

I would have no problem if everything was open sourced. However, Chinese capitalists steal this data, make it proprietary and profit off of it themselves. This is the “horror”.

nekandro ,

It’s public research. How exactly do you propose to make public research proprietary? The university holds the rights.

davel , (edited )
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

China files more patents than the next nine countries combined: www.wipo.int/en/ipfactsandfigures/patents

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/83ec576b-b536-40ac-b2f1-3dafd22b9894.png

China is first country to hold over 4 million domestic patents

The number of China’s domestic valid patents does not include those held in Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan.

GnuLinuxDude ,
@GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml avatar

I foremost hope that the United States can regain a shred of its diginity and stop treating every foreigner like a criminal, stop funding a genocide, stop killing its own population with guns, have a decent social services program, etc. This is obviously a fantasy, so I secondarily hope these researchers can go back to China and do good work, where they won’t be treated as second-tier human beings.

Sam_Bass ,

deleted_by_moderator

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  • ButtBidet ,
    @ButtBidet@hexbear.net avatar

    You realise that they are entering with valid visas, right?

    Sam_Bass ,

    Didnt see that no

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Biden doing the Trump thing. Recently came up with genius tarifs for Aluminium as well.

    doubtingtammy ,

    Not surprising when you look at all the anti-China stuff coming out of mainstream liberal orgs and communities.

    Jimmycakes ,

    Yeah they are studying here allowed by the US government getting searched goes with it

    Omega_Haxors ,

    snk typical Chinese tyranic- … what do you mean it’s America doing it??

    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    racist shithole country

    The_Jewish_Cuban ,
    @The_Jewish_Cuban@hexbear.net avatar

    The US shooting itself in the foot by making the neocolonialist brain drain strategy fall apart because they’re too racist and paranoid is somewhat funny. Shitty for these people though.

    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yeah, the silver lining here is that US is becoming toxic to foreign students and people are waking up to the fact that moving to US sucks.

    WarmSoda ,

    You’re going to have to say which one you’re talking about.

    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    I think the context is pretty obvious here.

    Steve , (edited )

    Not really. I was just reading another post about how chinese media paints American minorities as dangerous savages

    Source: feddit.de/post/11209008

    Extra fresh sauce: chinamediaproject.org/…/who-is-seeing-the-real-am…

    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    Sure you were

    Steve ,

    Bitch dont make me find it

    Steve ,
    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    source being a 404, on some random forum, nice

    Steve ,

    Its plainly visible to me, try again asshole

    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    sure it does little buddy

    Steve ,
    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    Buddy, anybody who’s been to America knows what a shithole it really is.

    WarmSoda ,

    When where you in America? And why?

    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    Because I have family living in US, and I visit them. Last time I’ve been was just before the pandemic. Driving through Detroit was quite an experience. A really weird question to ask by the way.

    dessalines ,
    WarmSoda ,

    Which one is known for being a melting pot of immigrants with a diverse population of every ethnicity on the planet?

    yogthos ,
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    The one where the oligarchs exploit all people equally.

    WarmSoda ,

    I’m not sorry your precious oppressive theiving and racist country gets called out and products banned by every other country.

    yogthos , (edited )
    @yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

    That’s a hell of a way to describe a band of racist white countries that have been parasitizing upon the rest of the world banning Chinese products. You clowns are an absolute hoot. Oh and let’s just see what people who face racism in the west have to say on the subject.

    https://media.mas.to/media_attachments/files/112/278/304/322/868/597/original/18d60d9311721457.mp4

    hglman ,

    The reality is both exist in the United States. There is at least distinct cultures that are slowly trying to divide themselves apart with in the US today.

    rar ,
    ButtBidet ,
    @ButtBidet@hexbear.net avatar

    The Australian Strategic Policy Institute thinktank estimates that 95 civilian universities in China have links to the defence sector.

    Oh, the think tank with the guy who gets satellite images of schools and says that it’s definitely a Uighur concentration camp, the one funded by the military.

    YEP ,

    X Edward Guo, a professor of biomedical engineering at Columbia University, said that part of the problem is that, unlike in the US, military research does sometimes take place on university campuses. “It’s not black and white … there are medical universities that also do military. But 99% of those professors are doing biomedical research and have nothing to do with the military.”.

    Us University’s don’t do military research

    Yes they do ???

    nekandro ,

    Military research requires clearance which foreign nationals can’t get anyway.

    anarchoilluminati ,
    @anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

    That was the part that confused me too.

    Probably even happens more often in US universities than Chinese ones.

    umbrella ,
    @umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

    pro china, anti us stuff coming from the guardian??

    tearsintherain , (edited )
    @tearsintherain@leminal.space avatar

    Or guardian jus telling us wass happening? Do you long to be the opposite side of the same coin?

    umbrella ,
    @umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

    thats a stretch!

    feedum_sneedson ,

    she cute

    Omega_Haxors ,

    keep your rape culture to yourself.

    treadful ,
    @treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

    Earlier this month the Chinese embassy in Washington said more than 70 students “with legal and valid materials” had been deported from the US since July 2021, with more than 10 cases since November 2023.

    So like 20 out of about 20k/year. Big story.

    alpaga1 ,

    I like how the summary conveniently avoid mentioning the fact that in the year 2023 30000 visa were given to chinese students. Its quite sad how most people dont bother reading the article. As per the article: “The number of people affected is a tiny fraction of the total number of Chinese students in the US. The State Department issued nearly 300,000 visas to Chinese students in the year to September 2023. But the personal accounts speak to a broader concern that people-to-people exchanges between the world’s two biggest economies and scientific leaders are straining.”

    assyrian ,

    what kind of metric is this? yeah they’re not deporting every single Chinese student, how many need to be deported for you to care about it? it’s a problem, it’s racism, and it describes a general anti-Chinese sentiment within the US. Asian hate crimes have increased, professors have been falsely accused and fired because of “espionage” with no proof, and so on.

    how many Swedes do you think are being falsely deported?

    sadreality ,

    The Swedes' home country is a US ally...

    Wtf is u talking about. Chinese students spying for the regime back home has been a knock fact since at least late 2000s.

    alpaga1 ,

    I never said racism wasn’t an issue, but I found the tread quite misleading towards the situation, especially since the reverse from us to china is also true, the underlying problem here is more complex and not unidimensional.

    If you need more context: As mentioned in the article, and a view a shared, the underlying problem that drives this vicious cycle is underlying espionage risk and general distrust between two frictional powers on a path of collision, against the interest of their own people. I don’t think we can blame this situation solely on the US as China behaviour is not exemplar itself. Unfortunately we don’t live in a perfect world, where governments put their own interest above all else.

    I didn’t expect to have to say this, as i think its not really the topic we are discussing here but still. I dont know about the atmosphere in america and the anti asian sentiment because of covid, but i find something like that quite despicable, and will not bring us anywhere.

    AcidLeaves ,

    that 20k is all immigrant visas not just student ones

    also it’s 70 postgraduate students in specific engineering/science industries. The huge majority of students are doing bachelor’s and a lot of them in shit like econ or math

    nekandro ,

    How many of those are graduate students?

    forgotmylastusername ,

    Same shit different era. Always gotta be persecuting somebody.

    Also when Silicon Valley copies and steals they get praised as revolutionary innovators.

    knfrmity ,

    The Silicon Valley thieves are just copying and stealing from over a century of US industrial strategy.

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