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ChonkyOwlbear ,

Call me crazy, but all the various food delivery apps should be consolidated into one and run by the government. Make it part of the post office. It helps businesses, drivers would be paid fairly, and it provides an extremely useful public service.

Bonesince1997 ,

And then a guy like Louis DeJoy gets in there…

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Any system will fail if it is directly sabotaged.

jjjalljs ,

Unfortunately one of two major US parties and a chunk of the population believes that government fundamentally can’t work. And they’ll run for office to prove it.

It is a little like saying bridges are unsafe and then taking a sledge hammer to a bridge for years until it falls apart. “See? If you hit it a bunch and don’t pay for maintenance or repair anything, eventually it falls apart!”

SorteKanin ,
@SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

I feel like making it part of the state is not the right course here. Rather, consolidate it into larger cooperatives (maybe not just one, but one for each area or city or state or something), which are collectively owned by all the restaurants. They all have an interest in having delivery personnel available. It seems like a collectively owned coop fits well for that.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Maybe have the government manage the software/servers that individual co-ops use so that part is uniform. As long as the co-op aren’t in direct competition, I see no issue. With competition there is too much immediate pressure to screw over delivery drivers.

paraphrand ,

Only if they find a way to make it possible for the courier to go back to the restaurant to fix order issues. If there is no model to make that work, then these services should never exist.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I think with a unified restaurant listing system and order verification by drivers, these could be minimized (no system will ever be error free). As it is now, some delivery companies will list menus without consulting with the restaurant and that is a big source of mistakes.

AlexWIWA ,

USPS delivering me Taco Bell would be fantastic

frezik ,

If they add tomatoes when I asked for no tomatoes, do the Post Office police get involved?

AlexWIWA ,

Yes

frezik ,

I’m in.+

morrowind ,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

What happens when the restaurants aren’t satisfied with the government service and decide to go with some third party? Or run their own, as many still do?

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t see the issue with a private/public option

morrowind ,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

OP wants it made public to go prevent abuse. If you have both we’re back to square one

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

If the public provides a good service and price then the private will have to be at least equally affordable and and good service in order to compete

morrowind ,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

Unless it’s subsidized, it’s very unlikely it will be able to compete on price

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Same as what happens when people use FedEx instead of the post office. They pay more for premium service.

jaybone ,

Exactly! These are valuable services for people who can’t drive.

calcopiritus ,

If they operated under the government at a loss I think it’s terrible policy. If it’s ran as a for-profit then it’d be fine.

And of course make discounts for people that actually need the service (disabled people and such). But no way I’m paying for lazy 20 year olds that can walk across the street to pick their food themselves, but don’t want to because the government service would be cheap.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

Every lazy 20 year old is supporting a restaurant and a delivery driver. You benefit from this via taxes. I think the system could easily be made self-sustaining though while still being cheaper than any private options.

calcopiritus ,

The purpose of an economy is to decide what to output, given the unlimited human desires but limited resources.

If there was a law which gave 100€ to every millionaire, we would be supporting millionaires? Isn’t that good? No it isn’t, just “supporting someone” isn’t good economic policy, it must support outputs that will most benefit the population.

That’s why for it to be remotely viable it has to be self-sustained. Which means that they would not be able to operate further if there’s not enough demand or the competition from the private sector is more efficient.

If you want to support delivery drivers you make laws regulating their job. If you want to support restaurants you give them subsidies or change the laws surrounding them.

Capitalism is good at making efficient use of resources. However it has many failures. The purpose of governments is to fix those failures (for example the exploitation of workers, and monopolies).

If you just make a government-backed company (that doesn’t need a profit to keep going) compete with private companies that need a profit, it must be because the service benefits the whole population. Examples: healthcare, education, communication, water.

Not that not all necessary services need to be provided by profitless government corporations. For example, food and electricity is also needed by 100% of the population but they are also resource-intensive. Therefore they’re usually ran by private companies with heavy regulations/subsidies.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

The normal rules of capitalism don’t apply to the internet because data costs nothing to replicate and is infinitely reproducible. Outside of server costs which could be paid by a nominal surcharge, there is no difference between a delivery app that serves 100 people and one that serves 100 million people.

I think it is quite clear that an array of delivery apps, each with their own separate rules and regulations for drivers and each with various subscriptions and fees for users, only adds complication and cost to food delivery. One singular app with one singular pool of delivery drivers is in every way more efficient than what we have now (with the exception of extracting fees from consumers).

calcopiritus ,

Food delivery apps are not just apps though. In fact, the ones I’ve used are absolutely crap. Most of the value of these companies are in the service, which would change if there is a shared pool of government workers.

If the complaint are the apps themselves, the government could enforce an API that allows anyone to interact with any app with any service. So if you prefer Uber eat’s service but glovoo’s app, you could order from Uber eats using the glovoo app. Just like the EU wants to enforce multi-app support for messaging systems.

The claim that a shared pool of workers would be more efficient I’m not so sure. It depends on who runs that pool. Which history has shown that monopolies (government-run or otherwise) tend to get less efficient because of the lack of competition.

If drivers can choose what order to take at any moment from any service that would basically mean a shared pool. But I believe (I never worked on delivery) that that’s what already happens.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

I know quite a few food delivery drivers and most work for multiple companies (even if several are subsidiaries of the same parent company). This is by design so labor can be denied the benefits required of a full time job. It’s not only inefficient, it’s exploitive.

Which history has shown that monopolies (government-run or otherwise) tend to get less efficient because of the lack of competition.

Companies that compete do get more efficient, but only at making money. They do not get more efficient at providing service to customers or supporting their laborers. They usually get worse in fact. That is why we have regulations.

BarbecueCowboy ,

Until recently when a bill was passed drastically changing how their retirement accounts had to be funded, the USPS was usually run for profit and was even usually actively profitable year over year. I think they’re still dealing with the fallout of that bill meant to hobble them, but I can’t imagine they’d operate at a loss purposefully.

The USPS even used to offer banking services which was also reported to be widely profitable until legislation was passed eliminating that service. Wouldn’t even be the first time that they had branched out beyond just mail.

unconsciousvoidling ,

The government isn’t a business. It’s a public service and I never hear anyone bitch about the wasteful spending when it comes to the military. I don’t understand why the post office is being treated like a for profit business.

calcopiritus ,

The government is not a business, but it has limited resources as everyone else.

If those resources are spent on delivery drivers, they’re not spent in anything else. I’m not American, but if I were I would much rather those resources be spent on affordable healthcare for everyone than on food delivery for everyone.

Soulg ,

Don’t forget that the post office was profitable until it was purposefully sabotaged to be not be profitable

trolololol ,

I think that’s how it works in Dubai. Basically you’re asking for a benevolent dictator thingy. Now think hard, do you think your own country government has what it takes to do it properly?

Soulg ,

They’re asking for a government regulated public service. Where the everloving fuck are you getting the impression of a benevolent dictator

trolololol ,

Do you think a regular democracy can even change its own diapers without fucking up? Only a benevolent dictator (sometimes called President, whatever) can do it right.

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

well i suppose your username should be an indicator of how seriously you should be taken

trolololol ,

Yep if you’re going into ad hominem get a decent handle yourself first.

ChonkyOwlbear ,

The post office delivering things makes it a dictatorship?

trolololol ,

Not where I live since everyone thinks it sucks.

Anyways we have a typically useless PM so can’t call him dictator since he can’t fart without asking approval from tens of politicians.

derpgon ,

I know food delivery is becoming an issue in the USA, but here in Czechia it is significantly better. Sure, you cannot tip the restaurant - but delivery tipping has never ever been a thing as far as I can remember (maybe if you pay cash). The delivery costs are usually not jacked up, and the drivers make a living wage.

Am I missing something? The three services we usually use are Wolt, Bolt Food, and Foodora (predecessor was bought by a multinational company and renamed, was a regional thing in the past).

frezik ,

Somehow, the delivery services in the US have gotten into a situation that’s bad for basically everyone involved. The drivers are underpaid. The restaurants are underpaid. Customers feel they’re being gouged. Despite charging a lot without paying much to the people who actually make and deliver the food, the companies are losing money.

Arguably, the only people who are happy with the money involved in any of this are the salaried programmers working for these companies. That only because they could make just as much anywhere else. The owners can hope that line will go up enough that they can sell the company and take a big payout. This cannot last, and while you shouldn’t cry for them, it probably won’t last long enough for the owners to get their payout.

jerkface ,
@jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

“Somehow!” Like every other unregulated industry. Weird!

rishabh ,

Can it be because of the fact that they do deliveries in the US using cars mainly while in Europe it’s mostly with bikes/e-bikes?

fruitycoder ,

Honestly that seems like a huge factor to me. The more car dependent places I’ve lived the less delivery was a thing.

derpgon ,

Might be true, almost all of my deliveries to work are by bike. But that’s in the city centre where going 200m take about 20 minutes by car.

On the other hand, where I live, it is almost always a car, because it is faster and more convenient for the drivers.

But I feel like the company also has something to do with the quality of the service for the end user. I feel like Wolt, which originates from Finland, is not funking up the economy here.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

I have literally never been able to afford these services, and I didn’t use them at the start so I dont know what the VC money days were like. Its already like 50 bucks to feed your family at McDonalds when you get it yourself.

Razzazzika ,

I open the app to try to find what I want to eat, then look at the prices and decide to drive there myself and get the food which saves $10-$20.

at_an_angle ,

And 3/4 of the time, the price and hassle to drive drives me to cook at home.

Razzazzika ,

If I’m looking at the delivery app I’ve already decided I don’t have the energy to cook haha

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

and that’s why you keep dry noodles and stock cubes at home, if i can’t be arsed to cook i toss a square of noodles and one or two stock cubes in a pot with some water, get it boiling, turn off the plate and ignore it for 5 minutes, and bam food.

then you just rinse out the pot and put it back in the cupboard

Razzazzika ,

I have adhd and I will tell you that seems way too hard when I’m lacking executive function. Way too many steps. Much easier is either to grab something pre-made like an uncrustable or something for the air fryer that is literally just put in and press button. Or the ramen in a cup I can just add hot water to from my water fountain that can just give me hot water I don’t need to boil.

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

you can add hot water to the pot as well, hell make it directly in a bowl if you wish, i just explained how i do it and that it’s significantly more convenient than having to wait for food delivery, while also being hilariously cheaper.

Nuke_the_whales ,

Last time I used Uber eats they scammed me out of $200

trolololol ,

Uber eats is the worse as a customer. I wish they were the first to close shop but nope.

Nuke_the_whales ,

The restaurant didn’t have most of what I ordered and called me so I tried cancelling the order, and so did they but Uber basically said that they have a no refund policy so I don’t get my money back, even though I didn’t get anything for that money. I put a fraud charge or my card, and I’m waiting to see if I can get the money back that way.

Drewelite ,

Don’t… Use them?

trolololol ,

Oh yep I’ll use the good competitor that they killed. It’s just going to cost me a couple trips in my DeLorean.

Drewelite ,

Or, you know, put regular gas in that DeLorean and go get the food yourself. Acting entitled to food delivery and also hating the food delivery service that’s able to stay in business is kinda silly.

trolololol ,

Did you get the illusion that I came here asking for help to solve my problems? Just take the rant mate.

kitnaht ,

Thank god. I’ve got too many friends who “can’t afford” anything, but order fucking uber eats almost daily. “woops, spent $70 on taco bell!”, they’ll laugh…

Shit needs to legitimately stop.

NegativeInf ,

Of that 70 dollar order, none of it actually pays the driver. So yes. Let the companies die.

If you really want that ultraprocess garbage spend the ¢50 in gas and drive to the taco bell. The new one by my house even has a mobile order lane separate from the standard ordering lane, so you can at least skip waiting behind the Civic full of baked college bros that forgot what a quesadilla is.

chicken ,

Baked college bros driving to Taco Bell seems like more of a case for convenient delivery options imo, they should not be driving at all

NegativeInf ,

Good point. I was more roasting my past self in my comment than anything.

ohlaph ,

I love that for you.

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

shout it from the rooftops with me:

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

Cryophilia ,

Can I get uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

apex32 ,

Lol, reading this reminds me of a Jack In The Box commercial from the mid 2000s: youtu.be/3ZdT9MkyG7I

kitnaht ,

Not only that but it pushes the ‘everything on demand’ mentality. All of these people I know have gained 50 or more pounds since the COVID lockdown, and they got trained to order everything online.

dogsnest ,
@dogsnest@lemmy.world avatar

Got peeps ordering cigarettes, potato chips, chocolate bars, soda…

“We’re house-poor!!!”

jaybone ,

And so much avocado toast.

phoneymouse ,

It really is that price too. You go in the app and start adding like $20 worth of food to buy and somehow by the time you’re done with tax, fees, and tipping it’s $70. Despite this price, your food usually arrives soggy and lukewarm.

I haven’t used these apps since 2018 when it became pretty apparent what was happening, but some people are REALLY lazy and REALLY bad with money.

chonglibloodsport ,

What I don’t understand is why the apps themselves aren’t even profitable. They’re taking billions of revenue yet losing money. What is costing them so much? Developers? The apps really haven’t changed much in the last few years.

trolololol ,

Worker fees must be the top cost. In a purely it company the costs go mostly in building the features then rise slow and steady with numbers of users. These companies have a steady and bulky cost increase with number of users.

chonglibloodsport ,

You mean the drivers? Or server/support/IT?

I thought the whole point of this business model was that they could build the software once and then using the power of scale they could make billions in profit. You know, like Google, Facebook, Snapchat, TikTok…

trolololol ,

Drivers, yep.

rickyrigatoni ,

People are literally paying double the cost of their food or more for doordash delivery from restaurants that already have a free or significantly cheaper delivery service. I don’t get how so many people have been falling for the lazy tax so much.

surewhynotlem ,

Life is hard. Making good choices requires do much work.

The Good Place finale did a whole bit on it.

echodot ,

Not to be pedantic but the conclusion was that it isn’t simply too much work to make good choices, it’s impossible to make good choices. Everything is so complicated now that it’s literally impossible to consider the implications of every single one of your choices. Even the guy that actually tried to make good choices was unable to do so and would still have been punished.

AlexWIWA ,

I am so sick of food places replacing delivery drivers with Uber eats. Now my order takes two hours, arrives cold, and the tip vanishes into the ether. Drivers paid less, restaurants charged more per delivery, and a worse customer experience.

Evotech , (edited )

Hmm, kinda reverse experience for me. The people who have their own drivers are the worst. No accountability, does whatever the fuck they want.

AlexWIWA ,

I don’t know why people so harshly down voted you. I imagine this is very dependant on locale and you were just sharing your experience.

Evotech ,

For sure, foodora and Wolt (main delivery guys in downtown Oslo) are very quick and reliable.

Chewget ,

Weird way to say broke people don’t order delivery…

CurlyWurlies4All ,
@CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net avatar

Nah it’s worse than that. The economics of the model are bad. It essentially relies on delivery drivers having to survive on tips and nothing more.

Socsa ,

That’s always how it’s been though. The difference is that in-house delivery is actually optimized for delivery volume, and restaurants which don’t have that volume or workflow just don’t have in-house delivery. When I drove pizza in college, I would take like 5 or 6 deliveries per hour, all within a 10 minute radius. Turnaround time from getting to the restaurant and back out the door would be a minute or two, and I’d leave with at least three different orders. That was good for $50/hr in tips during the dinner rush. Even a regular weeknight would be good for $100-150 in a 6 hour shift.

With the app ecosystem, it’s just impossible hit that kind of efficiency because you are almost always taking one order at a time, and you end up waiting on the restaurant most of the time.

CurlyWurlies4All , (edited )
@CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net avatar

Sorry I was blinded by my bias of living in a non-tipping country where delivery drivers are covered under an ‘award rate’ (a national agreed standard) of about $25/hour. Without the efficiencies of volume you’re talking about its been pretty clear from day one that these apps only work if they exploit ‘gig workers’.

But instead of recognising that, the tech companies have been pouring millions into trying to deregulate the industry and fighting to establish new award rates instead of being subject to Transportation award rates.

Link: …com.au/…/workplace-insights-fair-work-commission…

jeffw OP ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Apps destroyed food delivery

stoly ,

No. Delivery is broken. Fees commonly go to double the food cost just because a few companies own everything. It’s like ticket master.

BigBenis ,

About a year ago I made a rule for myself that if I wanted takeout, I’d go and get it myself unless I was physically incapable of doing that (drunk, high, etc). It means I don’t get takeout quite as often but I do still get it a couple times a week and even still my eating out expenses have reduced by more than 50%. Also, many delivery app prices are higher even if you’re opting to pick it up yourself. I often save a significant amount by just calling the restaurant rather than making the order through one of the delivery apps.

frigidaphelion ,

As someone who works in a restaurant, I can say that the prices for our menu items on doordash are up to ~40% higher than menu price regardless of whether you get it delivered or pick it up. If you’re getting takeout somewhere, call instead of using a 3rd party app, or at least see if their website lets you place orders sans doordash/postmates etc

woodenskewer ,
@woodenskewer@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe this is a dumb question but why are people willingly using a third party app to order food if they’re going to go get the fucking food themselves anyway? I had no idea this was a thing. Do we not like looking up phone numbers? No access to online menu? Pay a premium to avoid having a conversation? The only thing that makes sense is not wanting to have a conversation.

EatATaco ,

I love it because I can be very specific about what I want without worrying if I forgot anything or if the person taking my order forgot it. But even more so, I’ll see things that I didn’t even know existed or that I could get. When all the options are right there for me to see on my own, and I have clear pricing for them, it makes the decision much easier.

Many places I call have some shitty picture of the menu on the Internet and then I have to juggle talking to them, hoping they didn’t forget anything(as even saying it back is usually rushed and it’s hard to make sure it got it right) or I forgot something. Add in any type of accent or language barrier and it can be a real crap shoot.

And I’m a very social person who doesn’t have a problem with asserting myself. I can only imagine what it’s like for people with social anxiety or are at least a bit timid.

woodenskewer ,
@woodenskewer@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks I didn’t really think of it that way. Never really used the service before so I was taken back at the idea but that makes sense.

jaemo ,

I loathe the line-cutting self-important food delivery hustle bros with every fiber of my being and will never use their service. This is glad news.

jerkface ,
@jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

Haven’t gotten delivery since before the pandemic. Get fast food or a restaurant less than once a year. Honestly if this is one of the problems in your life, you are not poor.

BruceTwarzen ,

One of my friends was often complaining about money before and during the pandemic, so we never did anything expensive or nothing that costs money at all, which is fine by me. He had different work hours than me so i often cooked for two and invited him over. Just things like that. By the end of the pandemic i went to his place for the first time in years, and on his balcony he had two big garbage bags filled with empty delivery food boxes and McDonald’s crap. Bro, wanna know where your money goes?

WoahWoah ,

I still find these apps useful/handy when I’m having a party, I’m over at someone’s place with a bunch of different people, or I have family visiting or whatever. It stretches longer than people expect, people get hungry, etc., and then we can decide on a place, and everyone can simultaneously scroll the menu and make their order, and it shows up labeled for each individual.

It’s indulgent af and expensive, but once in a while for that kind of ordering efficiency, I like it.

For me and my girl or whatever, it’s my fun to just take a little cruise around town, get some take out, and then drive it straight home while it’s actually still hot.

buzz86us ,

I don’t understand the people who get McDonald’s on these apps

bionicjoey ,

Right? McDonald’s has their own app!

(/j) Although I do use the McDs app, only to order ahead and then go pick up in person

mihnt ,

cost of fuel, insurance and car maintenance have increased

As someone who drives for one of these companies, cost of fuel is only really an issue sometimes. When it gets closer to $4 a gallon, it stops being worth it. I do my own car maintenance so this really isn’t too much of an issue either. Car insurance though? You bet those fuckers have made plays to try and jack driver’s prices up. Some companies outright won’t insure you if you’re a driver without getting commercial insurance, which, from when I was shopping was over a grand a month in my state. (Mid-size sedan.)

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