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Grandwolf319 ,

I mean, pretty obvious if they advertise the technology instead of the capabilities it could provide.

Still waiting for that first good use case for LLMs.

psivchaz ,

It is legitimately useful for getting started with using a new programming library or tool. Documentation is not always easy to understand or easy to search, so having an LLM generate a baseline (even if it’s got mistakes) or answer a few questions can save a lot of time.

Grandwolf319 ,

So I used to think that, but I gave it a try as I’m a software dev. I personally didn’t find it that useful, as in I wouldn’t pay for it.

Usually when I want to get started, I just look up a basic guide and just copy their entire example to get started. You could do that with chatGPT too but what if it gave you wrong answers?

I also asked it more specific questions about how to do X in tool Y. Something I couldn’t quickly google. Well it didn’t give me a correct answer. Mostly because that question was rather niche.

So my conclusion was that, it may help people that don’t know how to google or are learning a very well know tool/language with lots of good docs, but for those who already know how to use the industry tools, it basically was an expensive hint machine.

In all fairness, I’ll probably use it here and there, but I wouldn’t pay for it. Also, note my example was chatGPT specific. I’ve heard some companies might use it to make their docs more searchable which imo might be the first good use case (once it happens lol).

BassTurd ,

I just recently got copilot in vscode through work. I typed a comment that said, “create a new model in sqlalchemy named assets with the columns, a, b, c, d”. It couldn’t know the proper data types to use, but it output everything perfectly, including using my custom defined annotations, only it was the same annotation for every column that I then had to update. As a test, that was great, but copilot also picked up a SQL query I had written in a comment to reference as I was making my models, and it also generated that entire model for me as well.

It didn’t do anything that I didn’t know how to do, but it saved on some typing effort. I use it mostly for its auto complete functionality and letting it suggest comments for me.

Grandwolf319 ,

That’s awesome, and I would probably would find those tools useful.

Code generators have existed for a long time, but they are usually free. These tools actually costs a lot of money, cost way more to generate code this way than the traditional way.

So idk if it would be worth it once the venture capitalist money dries up.

BassTurd ,

That’s fair. I don’t know if I will ever pay my own money for it, but if my company will, I’ll use it where it fits.

bamboo ,

What are these code generators that have existed for a long time?

Grandwolf319 ,

Lookup emmet.

I’ve also found IntelliJ’s generators useful for Java.

bamboo ,

Neither of those seem similar to GitHub copilot other than that they can reduce keystrokes for some common tasks. The actual applicability of them seems narrow. Frequently I use GitHub copilot for “implement this function based on this doc comment I wrote” or “write docs for this class/function”. It’s the natural language component that makes the LLM approach useful.

Grandwolf319 ,

There is also auto doc generators.

I think what you’re specifically referring to is accessibility or ease of use. For someone unfamiliar with those tools, I can see the appeal.

Personally, as a software dev, I think it’s just very inefficient way to accomplish this goal. LLMs consume vastly more resources than a simple script. So I wouldn’t use it, especially if I’m paying real money for it.

Dran_Arcana ,

I’m actually working on a vector DB RAG system for my own documentation. Even in its rudimentary stages, it’s been very helpful for finding functions in my own code that I don’t remember exactly what project I implemented it in, but have a vague idea what it did.

E.g

Have I ever written a bash function that orders non-symver GitHub branches?

Yes! In your ‘webwork automation’ project, starting on line 234, you wrote a function that sorts Git branches based on WebWork’s versioning conventions.

markon ,

Huge time saver. I’ve had GPT doing a lot of work for me and it makes stuff like managing my Arch install smooth and easy. I don’t use OpenAI stuff much though. Gemini has gotten way better, Claude 3.5 Sonnet is beastly at code stuff. I guess if you’re writing extremely complex production stuff it’s not going to be able to do that, but try asking most people even what an unsigned integer is. Most people will be like “what?”

Grandwolf319 ,

but try asking most people even what an unsigned integer is. Most people will be like “what?”

Why is that relevant? Are you saying that AI makes coding more accessible? I mean that’s great, but it’s like a calculator. Sure it helps people who need simple calculations in the short term, but it might actually discourage software literacy.

I wish AI could just be a niche tool, instead it’s like a simple calculator being sold as a smartphone.

beveradb ,

I’ve built a couple of useful products which leverage LLMs at one stage or another, but I don’t shout about it cos I don’t see LLMs as something particularly exciting or relevant to consumers, to me they’re just another tool in my toolbox which I consider the efficacy of when trying to solve a particular problem. I think they are a new tool which is genuinely valuable when dealing with natural language problems. For example in my most recent product, which includes the capability to automatically create karaoke music videos, the problem for a long time preventing me from bringing that product to market was transcription quality / ability to consistently get correct and complete lyrics for any song. Now, by using state of the art transcription (which returns 90% accurate results) plus using an open weight LLM with a fine tuned prompt to correct the mistakes in that transcription, I’ve finally been able to create a product which produces high quality results pretty consistently. Before LLMs that would’ve been much harder!

Draedron ,

Wrote my last application with chat gpt. Changed small stuff and got the job

explodicle ,

Please write a full page cover letter that no human will read.

markon ,

Mostly true before, now 99.99%. The charades are so silly because obviously as a worker all I care about is how much I get paid. That’s it.

All the company organization will care about. Is that work gets done to their standards or above and at the absolute lowest price possible.

So my interests are diametrically opposed to their interests because my interest is to work as little as possible for as much money as possible. Their goal is to get as much work out of me as possible for as little money as possible. We could just be honest about it and stop the stupid games. I don’t give a shit about my employer anymore than they give a shit about me. If I care about the work that just means I’m that much more pissed they’re relying on my good will towards people who use their products and or services.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That’s because businesses are using AI to weed out resumes.

Basically you beat the system by using the system. That’s my plan too next time I look for work.

Empricorn ,

Haven’t you been watching the Olympics and seen Google’s ad for Gemini?

Premise: your daughter wants to write a letter to an athlete she admires. Instead of helping her as a parent, Gemini can magic-up a draft for her!

psivchaz ,

On the plus side for them, they can probably use Gemini to write their apology blog about how they missed the mark with that ad.

Cryophilia ,

Writing bad code that will hold together long enough for you to make your next career hop.

NABDad ,

I think the LLM could be decent at the task of being a fairly dumb personal assistant. An LLM interface to a robot that could go get the mail or get you a cup of coffee would be nice in an “unnecessary luxury” sort of way. Of course, that would eliminate the “unpaid intern to add experience to a resume” jobs. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad,l. I’m also not sure why anyone would want it, since unpaid interns are cheaper and probably more satisfying to abuse.

I can imagine an LLM being useful to simulate social interaction for people who would otherwise be completely alone. For example: elderly, childless people who have already had all their friends die or assholes that no human can stand being around.

Grandwolf319 ,

Is that really an LLM? Cause using ML to be a part of future AGI is not new and actually was very promising and the cutting edge before chatGPT.

So like using ML for vision recognition to know a video of a dog contains a dog. Or just speech to text. I don’t think that’s what people mean these days when they say LLM. Those are more for storing data and giving you data in forms of accurate guesses when prompted.

ML has a huge future, regardless of LLMs.

Entropywins ,

Llm’s are ML…or did I miss something here?

nic2555 ,

Yes. But not all Machine Learning (ML) is LLM. Machine learning refer to the general uses of neural networks while Large Language Models (LLM) refer more to the ability for an application, or a bot, to understand natural language and deduct context from it, and act accordingly.

ML in general as a much more usages than only power LLM.

markon , (edited )

Just look at AlphaProof. Lol we’re all about to be outclassed. I’m sure everyone will still derrid the bots. They could be actual ASI and especially here in the US we’d say “I don’t see any intelligence.” I wish or society and all of us at individualsc would reflect on our limitations and tiny tiny insignificance on the grand scale. Our egos may kill us.

P.S… I give us a 10% to make it to 2100 in any numbers or quality of life we’d consider remotely acceptable today. Pretty grim, but I think that’s the weight of the challenges we’re facing. Without AI I’d probably just say it was fucking hopeless. Because we’ve had all the time we needed and all the tech we needed and hardly ever fix anything. Always running a day late and a dollar short. This species has dreams to big for our collective britches. It’s always been a foolish endeavor and full of suffering and horrors. We’re here though so I hope we at least give it a good go. Would be super lame to go out in a putter and take must lifev on earth with us.

So now the question is if we can use all these access models to actually do something about our problems. Even LLMs seem quite good at pointing out how we are really bad at using the tools we already have and know exactly how to use because we’re always too busy arguing while the ship sinks!

markon ,

COVID tried and a lot of people paid the price for being low information and not so bright. Sadly plenty of people who did the right things still got fucked by stupidity of others!

markon ,

I feel like everyone who isn’t really heavily interacting or developing don’t realize how much better they are than human assistants. Shit, for one it doesn’t cost me $20 an hour and have to take a shit or get sick, or talk back and not do its fucking job. I do fucking think we need to say a lot of shit though so we’ll know it ain’t an LLM, because I don’t know of an LLM that I can make output like this. I just wish most people were a little less stuck in their western oppulance. Would really help us no get blindsided.

EvilBit ,

I actually think the idea of interpreting intent and connecting to actual actions is where this whole LLM thing will turn a small corner, at least. Apple has something like the right idea: “What was the restaurant Paul recommended last week?” “Make an album of all the photos I shot in Belize.” Etc.

But 98% of GenAI hype is bullahit so far.

Grandwolf319 ,

How would it do that? Would LLMs not just take input as voice or text and then guess an output as text?

Wouldn’t the text output that is suppose to be commands for action, need to be correct and not a guess?

It’s the whole guessing part that makes LLMs not useful, so imo they should only be used to improve stuff we already need to guess.

EvilBit ,

One of the ways to mitigate the core issue of an LLM, which is confabulation/inaccuracy, is to have a layer of either confirmation or simply forgiveness intrinsic to the task. Use the favor test. If you asked a friend to do you a favor and perform these actions, they’d give you results that you can either/both look over yourself to confirm they’re correct enough, or you’re willing to simply live with minor errors. If that works for you, go for it. But if you’re doing something that absolutely 100% must be correct, you are entirely dependent on independently reviewing the results.

But one thing Apple is doing is training LLMs with action semantics, so you don’t have to think of its output as strictly textual. When you’re dealing with computers, the term “language” is much looser than you or I tend to understand it. You can have a “grammar” that is inclusive of the entirety of the English language but also includes commands and parameters, for example. So it will kinda speak English, but augmented with the ability to access data and perform actions within iOS as well.

pumpkinseedoil ,

LLM have greatly increased my coding speed: instead of writing everything myself I let AI write it and then only have to fix all the bugs

Grandwolf319 ,

I’m glad. Depends on the dev. I love writing code but debugging is annoying so I would prefer to take longer writing if it means less bugs.

Please note I’m also pro code generators (like emmet).

psmgx ,

Cuz everyone knows it’s BS, or mostly BS with extra data mining

expatriado ,

I like my AI compartmentalized, I got a bookmark for chatGPT for when i want to ask a question, and then close it. I don’t need a different flavor of the same thing everywhere.

JCreazy ,

There are even companies slapping AI labels onto old tech with timers to trick people into buying it.

1995ToyotaCorolla ,
@1995ToyotaCorolla@lemmy.world avatar

That one DankPods video of the “AI Rice cooker” comes to mind

JCreazy ,

Yeah that’s the one I saw

EvilBit ,

For what it’s worth, rice cookers have been touting “fuzzy logic” for like 30 years. The term “AI” is pretty much the same, it just wasn’t as buzzy back then.

oyo ,

LLMs: using statistics to generate reasonable-sounding wrong answers from bad data.

pumpkinseedoil ,

Often the answers are pretty good. But you never know if you got a good answer or a bad answer.

Blackmist ,

And the system doesn’t know either.

For me this is the major issue. A human is capable of saying “I don’t know”. LLMs don’t seem able to.

xantoxis ,

Accurate.

No matter what question you ask them, they have an answer. Even when you point out their answer was wrong, they just have a different answer. There’s no concept of not knowing the answer, because they don’t know anything in the first place.

Blackmist ,

The worst for me was a fairly simple programming question. The class it used didn’t exist.

“You are correct, that class was removed in OLD version. Try this updated code instead.”

Gave another made up class name.

Repeated with a newer version number.

It knows what answers smell like, and the same with excuses. Unfortunately there’s no way of knowing whether it’s actually bullshit until you take a whiff of it yourself.

GBU_28 ,

With proper framework, decent assertions are possible.

  1. It must cite the source and provide the quote, not just a summary.
  2. An adversarial review must be conducted

If that is done, the work on the human is very low.

That said, it’s STILL imperfect, but this is leagues better than one shot question and answer

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

They really aren’t. Go ask about something in your area of expertise. At first glance, everything will look correct and in order, but the more you read the more it turns out to be complete bullshit. It’s good at getting broad strokes but the details are very often wrong.

Now imagine someone that doesn’t have your expertise reading that answer. They won’t recognize those details are wrong until it’s too late.

markon ,

Sounds familiar. Citation please

cordlesslamp ,

To be honest, I lost all interest in the new AMD CPUs because they fucking named the thing “AI” (with zero real-world application).

I’m in the market for a new PC next month and I’m gonna get the 7800X3D for my VR gaming needs.

werefreeatlast ,

Also just listening and reading what people say. We don’t want fucking AI anything. We understand what it might do. We don’t want it.

the_post_of_tom_joad , (edited )

Yeah these buttsniffers can’t possibly conceive the truth, they made “AI” into something that people don’t want, let alone ever admit it. Check this out:

“When AI is mentioned, it tends to lower emotional trust, which in turn decreases purchase intentions” - some marketing stinklipper

“We found emotional trust plays a critical role in how consumers perceive AI-powered products”.

Ok, first of all how is this person serious fire this person please cuz this gibberish sounds like a LLM wrote it like for real WTF even is “emotional trust” dude is that a real term so you mean we see your lies

(wheeze)

Sorry, brain overheated there. These fucks are so far up their own asses man… the mind just boggles

EDIT: clarity

DonPiano ,
@DonPiano@feddit.org avatar

You’re mad that someone investigates and elaborates on causes of why using llm marketing bullshit is a bad idea? Weird.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

Well i was trying to be funny and my joke didn’t land lol. Can’t win em all

markon ,

Citation please?

MyOpinion ,

AI is garbage.

Persen ,

AI is just an excuse to lay off your employees for an objectively less reliable computer program, which somehow statistically beats us in logic.

markon , (edited )

I’ve used LLMs a lot over the post couple years. Pro tip. Use it a lot and learn the models. Then they look much more intelligent as you the user becomes better. Obviously if you prompt “Write me a shell script to calculate the meaning of life, make my coffee, and scratch my nuts before 9AM” it will be a grave disappointment.

If you first design a ball fondling/scratching robot, use multiple instances of LLMs to help you plan it out, etc. then you may be impressed.

I think one of the biggest problems is that most people interacting with llms forget they are running on computers and that they are digital and not like us. You can’t make assumptions like you can with humans. Usually even when you do that with us you just get stuff you didn’t want because you weren’t clear enough. We are horrible at instructions and this is something I hope AI will help us learn how to do better. Because ultimately bad instructions or incomplete information doesn’t lead to being able to determine anything real. Computers are logic machines. If you tell a computer to go ride a bike at best it’ll go out and do all the work to embody itself in a robot and buy a bike and ride it. Wait, you don’t even know it did it though because you never specified for it to record the ride…

A very few of us are pretty good at giving computers clear instructions some of the time. Also though, I have found just forcing models to reason in context is powerful. You have to know to tell it to “use a drill down tree style approach to problem solving. Use reflection and discussion to explore and find the optimal solution to reasoning through the problem.” Might still give you bad results. That is why you have to experiment. It is a lot of fun if you really just let your thoughts run wild. It takes a lot of creative thinking right now to really get the most out of these models. They should all be 110% open source and free for all. BTW Gemini 1.5 and Claude and Llama 3.1 are all great, nd Llama you can run locally or on a rented GPU VM. OpenAI I’m on the fence about but given who all is involved over there I wouldn’t say I would trust them. Especially since they want to do a regulatory capture.

markon ,

Asking the chat models to have self-disccusion and use/simulate metacognition really seems to help. Play around with it. Often times I am deep in a chat and I learn from its mistakes, it kinda learns from my mistakes and feedback. It is all about working with and not against. Because at this time LLMs are just feed forward neural networks trained on supercomputer clusters. We really don’t even know what they are capable of fully because it is so hard to quantify, especially when you don’t really know what exactly has been learned.

Q-learning in language is also an interesting methodology I’ve been playing with. With an imagine generator for example though, you can just add (Q-learning quality) and you may get more interesting and quality results. Which itself is very interesting to me.

cheddar ,
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

Unsurprisingly. I have use for LLMs and find them helpful, but even I don’t see why should we have the copilot button on new keyboards and mice, as well as on the LinkedIn’s post input form.

razorwiregoatlick ,
@razorwiregoatlick@lemmy.world avatar

There are certainly great uses for LLMs. 99% of the time it is useless though.

thesohoriots ,

For the love of god, defund MBAs.

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

Give them a box of crayons to eat so the adults can get some work done

aphonefriend ,

Fallout was right.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

<—Not this cat. I become highly aroused when i hear salespeople gargling out their marketing bullshit

Yeah, baby, lie for me. Mmmm call a LLM “AI” again.

fuck that’s hot

DonPiano ,
@DonPiano@feddit.org avatar

Hey now, LLMs are AI!

… So is the code that makes those ghosts in s super mario approach you when you look away and cower when you look at them.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

At least Shy Guys are cute.

markon ,

AlphaProof isn’t an LLM but it just was a point from gold against some of the smartest people on earth. You think you’re smarter than the people building this stuff? That might be the dumbest shit about this. I swear the United States essentially really has become Ideocracy. From all angles. Capitalism sucks but AI isn’t the problem. Bunch of greedy apes is the fucking problem like it always has been. Lol

So you know if you have clean water and food though, you could be considered a very greedy ape. Why are you not fighting harder for clean water etc? What do you do to make the world better? (Shit probably same as me. Jack shit)

the_post_of_tom_joad , (edited )

Hmmm i have to reread my previous comment cuz people are getting the wrong idea (maybe)

Im talking about marketing doublespeak, and the fact a press release to the public at large will never admit “AI” has become bad in the public perception because of marketing. It is because of these marketing mba dipshits and clueless fad followers putting “AI” on stuff that is

Not AI

Or

Not useful to the consumer, and indeed has many anti-consumer facets, being used primarily as an excuse to fire workers, push software as a service, or mine consumer info.

The point i tried and failed to make was these MBA fucks (categorically not the engineers building ai or the llms we also call ai) are so insulated inside their corpo boardroom-speak they can’t see or admit it’s their fault, or ever hear how goddamn stupid they sound.

Kalysta ,

Adobe Acrobat has added AI to their program and I hate it so much. Every other time I try to load a PDF it crashes. Wish I could convince my boss to use a different PDF reader.

markon ,

Adobe sucks but they have sucked their whole existence. No AI needed.

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

Take the hint, MBAs.

xantoxis ,

They don’t care. At the moment AI is cheap for them (because some other investor is paying for it). As long as they believe AI reduces their operating costs*, and as long as they’re convinced every other company will follow suit, it doesn’t matter if consumers like it less. Modern history is a long string of companies making things worse and selling them to us anyway because there’s no alternatives. Because every competitor is doing it, too, except the ones that are prohibitively expensive.

[*] Lol, it doesn’t do that either

simpleslipeagle ,

Assuming MBAs can do math might be a mistake. I’ve worked on an MBA pet project that squandered millions in worker time and opportunity cost to save 30k mrc…

xantoxis ,

Eh, they understand “number go down”

netvor ,
@netvor@lemmy.world avatar

and the smarter ones can even look at two or more separate numbers

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

I read this article that out of the 10 top Harvard MBA grads 8 of them had have gone to tank the company they were CEOs at. Or something ridiculous.

AceFuzzLord ,

In other news, AI bros convince CEOs and investors that polls saying people don’t like AI are out of touch with reality and those people actually want more AI, as proven by an AI that only outputs what those same AI bros want.

Just waiting for that to pop up in the news some time soon.

mriormro ,
@mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

That’s literally the sales response to this. “People don’t really know what they want until we sell it to them”

It’s pretty fucking gross.

netvor ,
@netvor@lemmy.world avatar

“If I asked people what they want, they would say, better AI”

MBA tech bro: “so … that means what they really want is the same shitty AI, right?”

BradleyUffner ,

LLM based AI was a fun toy when it first broke. Everyone was curious and wanted to play with it, which made it seem super popular. Now that the novelty has worn off, most people are bored and unimpressed with it. The problem is that the tech bros invested so much money in it and they are unwilling to take the loss. They are trying to force it so that they can say they didn’t waste their money.

2pt_perversion ,

Honestly they’re still impressive and useful it’s just the hype train overload and trying to implement them in areas they either don’t fit or don’t work well enough yet.

GratefullyGodless ,
@GratefullyGodless@lemmy.world avatar

AI does a good job of generating character portraits for my TTRPG games. But, really, beyond that I haven’t found a good use for it.

abracaDavid ,

So far that’s been the best use of AI for me too. I’ve also used it to help flesh out character backgrounds, and then I just go through and edit it.

2pt_perversion ,

Yeah exactly, as a tool that doesn’t need to be perfect to give you a starting point it’s excellent. But companies sort of forgot the “as a tool” part and are just implementing ai outright in places it’s not ready yet like drive-thru windows or voice only interface devices…it’s not ready for that shit currently (if it ever truly will be).

netvor ,
@netvor@lemmy.world avatar

…also TTRPH, TTRPI, TTRPJ, TTRPK, TTRPL, TTRPM, TTRPN, TTRPO, TTRPP, TTRPQ, TTRPR, TTRPS, TTRPT, TTRPU, TTRPV, TTRPW, TTRPX, TTRPY and TTRPZ games.

But beyond that, no good use, no siree.

PS: spoilerthat was WAY harder to type than I expected.

netvor ,
@netvor@lemmy.world avatar

Even in areas where they would fit it’s really annoying how some companies are trying to push it down our throats.

It’s always some obnoxious UI element, screaming at me their 3 example questions, and I always sigh and think, “I have to assume you can only answer these 3 particular questions, and why would I ask those questions, and when I ask UI questions I expect precise answers so would I want to use AI for that.”

I have no doubt that LLM’s have more uses than I can think of, but come on…

I’m happy for studies like this. People who are trying to smear their AI all over our faces need to calm, the f…k, down.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Many of us who are old enough saw it as an advanced version of ELIZA and used it with the same level of amusement until that amusement faded (pretty quick) because it got old.

If anything, they are less impressive because tricking people into thinking a computer is actually having a conversation with them has been around for a long time.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

Are you like 80?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No, 47. Believe it or not, the first PCs came out when I was a young whippersnapper.

Shadywack ,
@Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck yea man, Dr Sbaitso was the one for me. I loved that shit. It still fucks with people when I bust that out on Dosbox.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Doggdorzbaydzoh.

WindyRebel ,

IBM 486 was my first PC as a kid. Throw in those floppys and game on DOS!

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Mine was an Apple ][+.

(And yes, that’s how you write it properly. I’m a pedant.)

WindyRebel ,

I would have it no other way. I am the same. 😂

tigeruppercut ,

When I was a kid my folks bought the TI 99/4A for some ridiculous reason. It’s interesting to look back at the weird hardware that never made it, like the cartridges that thing used instead of 5¼" floppies that were also out at the time. Maybe it reminded them of inserting 8 tracks.

https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/e2cc5722-caf4-48c4-a4ab-4a7e9f20c3d9.webp

Dultas ,

I have 6.22 and Win3.11 running in a VM for fun.

reddthat_209 ,

I agree with this, my sentiments exactly as well. Getting AI pushed towards us from every direction & really never asked for it. Like to use it for certain things but go to it when needed. Don’t want it in everything, at least personally.

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