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ipkpjersi , in As someone not in tech, I have no idea how to refer to my tech friends' jobs

It depends who I’m talking to and where I live. Where I live, engineer is a protected title and requires certification/etc so that takes it out of the race. That leaves the other options. Generally I am a Web Developer to people my age or younger, to people older than me I am usually a Computer Programmer but also sometimes a Developer or Software Developer instead. Realistically, I am a Full Stack Website Developer.

Referring to my job doesn’t get any easier even as someone in tech.

seth ,

deleted_by_author

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  • Scrollone ,

    Not only a certification, but in Italy you need to be registered to a register/bar and pay a yearly fee in order to be an engineer.

    Sweetpeaches69 ,

    At least in civil, the reason is because the professional engineer (PE) stamps all plans and assumes responsibility for said plans by doing so. Plans cannot be built without a stamp. This is the case because someone has to be found liable if a bridge should kill people, and it shouldn’t be the technicians, designers or EITs under the PE, because they don’t make nearly as much. With great pay comes great liability.

    cole ,
    @cole@lemdro.id avatar

    Lives ARE on the line. It was faulty software that caused the Boeing 737 Max to crash twice, killing 346 people. Software runs your car, the trains, rockets, literally everything.

    Sweetpeaches69 ,

    All engineers not just civil?

    AeonFelis , in Is this a Nut?

    C# should actually be “What Java said, except it’s ICrackable”.

    callumbirks ,

    Would the equivalent Rust trait be Crack?

    blackstampede ,

    AsCrack

    taaz ,

    Into<dyn AsCrack>

    class_d_fire ,

    Into’s type parameter has an implicit Sized bound. I think AsRef<dyn Crack> would be the trait of choice :D

    Hazzia ,

    pervert

    warlaan ,

    No, actually C#'s answer should be: “What Java said - hold on, what Python said sounds good too, and C++'s stuff is pretty cool too - let’s go with all of the above.”

    C#, or as I like to call it “the Borg of programming languages”.

    dependencyinjection ,

    I got my first software developer role last year and it was the first time I’d written C#, I was more TypeScript. Now we use both but I must say I really like C# now that I’m used to it.

    LeFantome ,

    I think most programmers would like C# if they spent time with it. It is getting a bit complex because the joke about it over borrowing from other languages is on the money. It is a nice language though and pretty damn fast these days all things considered.

    Scoopta ,
    @Scoopta@programming.dev avatar

    There’s too much MS in the language and runtime for me. The fact that it gives my Linux programs DLL files and the fact that by default the SDK phones home makes me run away in horror from not only writing it but also running other projects written in it.

    force ,

    even nicer is F#. join us brother, you can do everything that you can do in C# but better

    dependencyinjection ,

    What does it offer that would make it better? Just curious and I’m not in a position to change out tech stack at work though.

    force , (edited )

    The biggest selling point about functional languages for me is the type system, mainly algebraic/union types (which imo Scala does the best), pattern matching (and imo Rust does this best), and the incredible type inference, but also all the functional features. But I think the best part about F# specifically comparing it to C# is the removal of a shit ton of the boilerplate. Plus data is immutable by default, always a nice touch.

    For F#, the special types may not be super relevant when interacting with C# libraries, but in general you can do everything in F# that you can do in C#, including all the OOP. It’s just an added bonus that you basically get enums on steroids and pattern matching.

    I find that writing in F#, even if I write basically the same code I would in C#, speeds up my design/programming a TON and makes it significantly more maintainable and easy to navigate. There’s a lot less clutter and you don’t have to worry about the layers upon layers of repetitive boilerplate.

    The only downside IMO is that F# can have some terrible error messages. And of course, you have to learn F# syntax which can be a small pain if you’ve never used ML or Haskell (especially when it comes to function call syntax). But if you’re mainly interfacing with C# libraries then it’s no big deal. I started making an application only utilising C# libraries (mainly DB stuff) the same day I started using F# and it went relatively smoothly, although probably because Rust is the main language I used then.

    This resource might help, although I can’t say it’s enough to completely learn the language: fsharp.org/learn/

    riodoro1 , in Is this a Nut?

    All those memes picturing C++ as unsafe and unstable yet the server that serves these memes is running mostly C/C++ and has an uptime of months.

    arc ,

    Lemmy is written in Rust. There might be bits of C at the periphery behind bindings.

    riodoro1 ,

    And linux is written in C.

    arc ,

    Predominantly C. But even the kernel is beginning to use Rust as a way of avoiding entire classes of programming error.

    MonkderZweite , (edited )

    They implemented some sort of OOP tho.

    edit: I meant: the Linux devs implemented some sort of OOP in their C code in the kernel – is something i read forever ago.

    arc ,

    Rust isn’t really OOP like C#, Java or C++ - it has structs with functions that you could consider an “object” but there is no inheritance. Instead Rust uses traits which are a little bit like interfaces in some languages.

    The way the kernel is using Rust at the moment is to produce safe bindings for modules to be written in Rust, i.e. you can create a module in Rust source which will be correctly loaded up, the code is safe by default and will have access to kernel services via bindings. I expect over time that more of the kernel will become Rust, but the biggest impediment right now is Rust relies on LLVM and LLVM only supports a subset of targets that a kernel could potentially support with another compiler like gcc.

    vox ,
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    well and it’s only running this well because of decades of effort and millions of effort spent on security reviews

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Lemmy is written in Rust.

    Wow, way to ruin my joke.

    AMDIsOurLord ,

    Also they’re always treating C++ like it’s some arcane enterprise variant that uses 1990s C++

    Using modern C++ you can write much cleaner, more usable, and really safe code

    riodoro1 ,

    Having a thorough process and an engineer approach in software development is also pretty handy. There weren’t many bugs in the AGC. Yet it was programmed mostly in assembly and people had no trouble trusting it with their life.

    CanadaPlus ,

    True, but that’s partly because the Linux is beyond mature, and you can ferret out a lot of bugs with millions of users over decades.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    yet the server that serves these memes is running mostly C/C++

    Time to rewrite it in Rust!

    /ducksandruns

    pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

    if i remember lemmy is written in rust

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar
    Scoopta ,
    @Scoopta@programming.dev avatar

    Lemmy is rust and it’s alternative sublinks is java…your comment has now power here

    dylanTheDeveloper , in As someone not in tech, I have no idea how to refer to my tech friends' jobs
    @dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

    I got told the difference between a software developer and an engineer is that an engineer factors in a products lifecycle and scalability and communicates this to their team and client

    Theharpyeagle ,

    At our company, the person who specializes in that is dubbed Software Architect. Every dev is expected to uphold those values to a certain degree.

    AlexWIWA , in As someone not in tech, I have no idea how to refer to my tech friends' jobs

    This is my opinion that is basically a compilation of the coworkers I’ve talked to about the subject.

    Depends on the role. Passed senior level most prefer to be called engineers. Those are the people designing the whole system. Software developers are usually more mid level and figure out the specifics of how to design smaller sections of the system. They cut a lot of the detailed tickets and write a lot of infrastructure code.

    Programmer is usually the juniors who never design much and just take tickets and turn them into code.

    When I say senior, mid level, and junior, I’m referring more to the role that you’re fulfilling that day, and not the overall skill level. Engineers will often step in as programmers for more complicated code.

    We usually accept any of the terms though because it’s very rare for someone to not jump between the various tasks depending on what the active project is. And at some companies they only hire seniors and they perform all roles.

    TL;DR: Every software engineer is a developer and programmer, but not every developer is an engineer, and not every programmer is a developer or engineer.

    expr ,

    In my experience all terms are used pretty interchangeably (well, rarely programmer or coder, I guess), though I prefer software engineer.

    AlexWIWA ,

    I also prefer engineer but that’s mostly just due to the complexity of my current role vs my old one.

    Agent641 ,

    Whats it called when you know how to code, but you’re shit at it, but you’re still in charge of several much more experienced developers?

    AlexWIWA ,

    CTO ;)

    Agent641 ,

    Nice! I think I should ask for a raise.

    AlexWIWA ,

    Hell yeah you should

    Asudox , in As someone not in tech, I have no idea how to refer to my tech friends' jobs
    @Asudox@lemmy.world avatar

    Dev.

    DanForever , in As someone not in tech, I have no idea how to refer to my tech friends' jobs

    I’ve set my role on my company’s slack profile as “code connoisseur”

    MonkCanatella ,

    Krep check!

    trustnoone ,

    Lol i do this when the pm wants to note me down as “develor lead” on change requests, and i force him to change it to “developer enthusiast” instead lol i aint leading nothing.

    modeler ,

    Surely that is reserved for QA!

    DanForever ,

    Nah QA isn’t necessarily going to understand code (the best ones do though!)

    bruhduh , in Is this a Nut?
    @bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar
    NoFun4You ,

    I want my vs code to look like this

    bruhduh ,
    @bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar
    Xanvial ,

    But, why?

    force ,

    most C programs are just C++ programs with extra steps if you look at them close enough

    umbraroze ,

    Yeah, you can technically write object oriented code in C. Or any other language. Just that actual OOP languages provide a nicer syntax and compile time checks.

    Rust is kind of a good example of this. It’s technically not an object oriented language, but the trait system brings it close.

    Aatube ,

    Time for Rust++

    humbletightband ,

    Stop this or I’m gonna find you and I’m gonna kill your dog

    Crashumbc ,

    Whoa now, them there fighting words.

    hansl ,

    Ah yes, what C needs is VTABLEs.

    Witchfire , in no.. just no
    @Witchfire@lemmy.world avatar

    Honestly more readable than a lot of SQL I’ve read. It even has hierarchical grouping.

    somePotato ,

    I was disgusted by the XML at first, but it’s a readable query returning a sane JSON object.

    Meanwhile, I’m mantaining Java code where the SQL is a perfectly square wall of text, and some insane mofo decided the way to read the resulting list of Object[] 🤮 is getting each column by index… so I’d switch to SQXMLL in a heartbeat.

    blackbrook ,

    Check out JOOQ.

    shotgun_crab ,

    JOOQ made me realize that most ORMs suck

    einlander , in Ahh...yes...new "code-free" framework
    LinearArray ,
    @LinearArray@programming.dev avatar

    Lmao 😂

    anton , (edited )

    Neat idea but it needs the ape loader to be installed.

    einlander ,

    It comes with the launcher embedded.

    Now you may be asking, what happens if the APE loader isn’t installed on my system? In that case, it’ll try to dd the 4kb copy of the APE loader that’s embedded within the host executable, out to the safest folder that’s guaranteed to work, namely ${TMPDIR:-${HOME:-.}}/.ape. If your operating system defines the POSIX-specified $TMPDIR variable, then the ape loader will become $TMPDIR/.ape. Otherwise if $HOME is defined, it’s dropped in in $HOME/.ape. Then, if neither is defined, ./.ape is created in the current directory

    anton ,

    Thanks, I missed it.

    Solemarc , in As someone not in tech, I have no idea how to refer to my tech friends' jobs

    I don’t know where “software engineer” started but in Australia engineers have to study for years and then do a minimum amount of study every year to keep their license. Which we don’t have to do. I’ve always been weirded out by Software Engineer even though it seems to be becoming more common.

    noride ,

    Engineering is engineering. You design it, you build it, you test it. Engineering. We shouldn’t gatekeep words.

    With that said, I recognize that certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.

    F04118F ,

    certain engineering disciplines have overlap with public safety, and should come with some qualifications to back it up.

    How long until they realize software engineering has overlap with public safety too?

    Hotzilla ,

    Single software engineer can nowadays do more harm than most of other engineers. Just one SQL injection and all the people’s personal data have been leaked. Single bug in car self driving software and the car drives in to school bus.

    TurtleTourParty ,

    I like the title only because I got a degree in computer engineering and passed the fundamentals of electrical engineering exam. I definitely don’t do any engineering but it makes me feel like my degree wasn’t a waste.

    Edit: also that was an 8 hour test that I really took for no reason.

    AlexWIWA ,

    Software engineer is an accurate term for a lot of roles. The problem is when software engineers step out of their lane and start pontificating about other engineering fields.

    brisk ,

    You have to do that to be a “Chartered Engineer”, “Professional Engineer” etc. Some states require you to have some kind of registration to practice in some roles.

    “Engineer” remains an unprotected term in all states and territories as far as I know but I could be wrong. It’s definitely unprotected federally.

    Magnetar , in Stop using floats

    Call me when you found a way to encode transcendental numbers.

    ytg ,

    Perhaps you can encode them as computation (i.e. a function of arbitrary precision)

    Magnetar ,

    Hard to do as those functions are often limits and need infinite function applications. I’m telling you, math.PI is a finite lie!

    Chadus_Maximus , (edited )

    May I propose a dedicated circuit (analog because you can only ever approximate their value) that stores and returns transcendental/irrational numbers exclusively? We can just assume they’re going to be whatever value we need whenever we need them.

    frezik ,

    Wouldn’t noise in the circuit mean it’d only be reliable to certain level of precision, anyway?

    Chadus_Maximus ,

    I mean, every irrational number used in computation is reliable to a certain level of precision. Just because the current (heh) methods aren’t precise enough doesn’t mean they’ll never be.

    anton ,

    You can always increase the precision of a computation, analog signals are limited by quantum physics.

    smeg ,

    Do we even have a good way of encoding them in real life without computers?

    fossphi ,

    Just think about them real hard

    Magnetar ,

    \pi

    Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

    Here you go

    Kolanaki , in As someone not in tech, I have no idea how to refer to my tech friends' jobs
    @Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

    The Plague.

    citrusface ,

    Uh… Mr. The Plague… Uh. Something weird is happening on the net…

    drathvedro , in As someone not in tech, I have no idea how to refer to my tech friends' jobs

    The Intergalactic Ninja Sultan of Revenue Development

    Molten_Moron , in Uh...oh...

    And 8 in 10 Americans think HTML is a programming language.

    jaybone ,

    And 5 in 10 Americans think you can parse it with regular expressions.

    Anticorp ,

    †hê þðñ¥, hê ¢ðmê§

    summerof69 ,

    I mean…

    KairuByte ,
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    You can parse anything with regex, if you’re willing to give up your soul for it.

    anton ,

    Show me the regex for the language L = {a^n b^n | n in N}

    OutlierBlue ,

    They’re wrong too, although less-so.

    Also, what about that last American?

    activ8r ,

    The last one knows it’s not a programming language and is annoyingly vocal about it.

    OutlierBlue ,

    Mom, look! I’m a statistic!

    Molten_Moron ,

    The last American knows it’s a markup language.

    rimjob_rainer ,

    Boomer programmer humor

    PiratePanPan ,
    @PiratePanPan@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I will die on the hill that HTML should be treated like a programming language.

    extant ,

    The hyper text markup language programming language?

    Molten_Moron ,

    I absolutely agree, and luckily I think it mostly is treated as a programming language. It’s just a technicality that makes for a great joke.

    Sibbo ,

    Ever heard of HTMX?

    einsteinx2 ,
    @einsteinx2@programming.dev avatar

    html-lang.org

    I mean, technically it’s the other 2 out of 10 that are wrong…🙃

    HTML, the programming language, is a practical, turing-complete[1], stack-based programming language based on HTML, the markup language. It uses elements defined in HTML, the markup language, in order to do computations.

    FlickOfTheBean ,

    Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should!

    PiratePanPan ,
    @PiratePanPan@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    html-lang.org

    Yo, dawg, I heard you like HTML, so I put HTML in your HTML so you could HTML while you HTML

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