All I’ve seen from Hexbear is class consciousness shit, but everybody else has made it the key point of their online existence to rage on them and do all the garbage they accuse hexbear of. 🤷
Sorry y’all can’t adequately explain why giving every cent of the economy to three people is a good thing.
EDIT: I hear what people are saying but it sounds like, from my limited experience of looking at posts pushed to me from there, that people are using the actions of a few to discredit the beliefs and opinions of everyone they disagree with.
EDIT2: LOL @ the people calling me names then blocking me for disagreeing with them. Thought that was Hexbear did, not you EnLigHtEnEd TyPeS JFC 😂
The issue with Hexbear is that their users tend to talk in a very demeaning and insulting manner. About half of the popular posts on Hexbear are about making fun of people or communities. Their political views are less of an issue; it’s more about their toxic behaviour.
This can be interpreted as bad faith if you don’t mention towards whom this behavior is directed at.
It’s easy, you guys direct it at anyone that doesn’t instantly adopt your worldview.
I literally had your people calling me a bigot for saying that being transgender is, ideally, a temporary state.
The implication being they finish transitioning and end up whatever.
I was literally called a bigot for accepting trans people in my own way. Some of ya’ll are fucking rabid, and you absolutely will turn people against you. People that would normally not really care whether or not someone is trans.
Also, yes I call out billionaire worshipping shitlords. I’m just sound enough of mind to understand that communism is far too idealistic to ever actually be accomplished.
There isn’t a single revolution that hasn’t ended with a new upper class taking over from the old one, therefore perpetuating the cycle of inequality. Hexbearians happily ignore this about revolution, effectively behaving as if the human element of greed will just magically evaporate with a new world order. Any system of governance that doesn’t take into account human weakness is a worthless system of governance.
So you gleefully attack anybody trying to do anything about to protect billionaires are their status. 🤷
Just another 2023 “Centrist” who doesn’t want the stigma of the right wing but only ever spends time going after one side because “only the right wing works”
I didn’t think anything bad of you until you HAD to make the clarification. If you have a compelling need to go out of your way and loudly pronounce that you do something - you don’t do it. Nobody’s buying it buddy, you’re just another right winger and nobody cares.
I mean, that’s most people inside the more mainstream American Overton window of mid right to far right, but nobody bats an eye at that because they’re upholding the status quo. 🤷
Do you see instances who’s main purpose is to represent “people inside the more mainstream American Overton window of mid right to far right” that are even nearly as popular as Hexbear?
If you’re browsing all you frequently see posts from Hexbear users. I’m yet to come across a noticable amount of posts from users from an instance which represent the group you mentioned.
(I couldn’t even name a single instance that fits that description, because if they exist, they’re not nearly as active as Hexbear.)
Toxic people exist on all public instances. But on some they’re more common than on others.
What you’re saying then is it’s OK to stereotype users and bully them for their beliefs and opinions, then use any response other than quiet submission as proof that they’re bad.
Cause all the posts I’ve seen from it is mundane, and the only times I’ve ever seen it’s users act a fool is in response to everyone screeching at them for not adhering to popular opinion (usually with no coherent point other than “tankie bad durr” whatever a tankie is, I’m assuming a slur for leftists.)
Can I punch you then run around telling everyone what a violent cunt you are when you punch me back? Cause that’s what it looks like to me, I’ve been getting alot of wild claims about hexbear but nobody has any point of reference to back it up though.
What you’re saying then is it’s OK to stereotype users and bully them for their beliefs and opinions, then use any response other than quiet submission as proof that they’re bad.
Cause all the posts I’ve seen from it is mundane, and the only times I’ve ever seen it’s users act a fool is in response to everyone screeching at them for not adhering to popular opinion (usually with no coherent point other than “tankie bad durr” whatever a tankie is, I’m assuming a slur for leftists.)
Can I punch you then run around telling everyone what a violent cunt you are when you punch me back? Cause that’s what it looks like to me, I’ve been getting alot of wild claims about hexbear but nobody has any point of reference to back it up though.
Just try to engage in a good-faith conversation with them. They love to shut that shit down with their weird image spams. And the poop. Like literal images of poop, to scare people off, or something. I really don’t get it.
The poop thing has sort of turned into a weird inside joke or virtue signal or something. Sort of like how in the dark ages of the pre-internet Era, nerds would quote LotR and Hitchhiker’s Guide at each other to signal that they are nerds and are therefore of one heart and mind
I think what you are supposed to do is take their shit posts in stride and then shit post back at them. Which I’m not fucking doing.
Sort of like how in the dark ages of the pre-internet Era, nerds would quote LotR and Hitchhiker’s Guide at each other to signal that they are nerds and are therefore of one heart and mind
You really weren’t there or had a very different experience than me. I mean, I guess by “very different,” I mostly mean we actually quoted Monty Python and Star Wars.
I wasn’t there, I just listen when people talk. But the point is the virtue signaling. Most social groups have a shibboleth to signal that they are part of the in-group. It’s sort of the inverse of how cult-like spaces will shun a specific thing that The Evil Outsiders have a casual relationship with, like strict veganism or strictly not using anything which functions similar to profanity
For sure. I agree with you completely and see the connection to hexbear. I was mostly just making a joke that my particular circle had different but still very specific inside jokes.
It was the calls to murder anyone who supports a democratic candidate, with the justification that cops have killed homeless people that turned me off.
Fair enough then, alas it doesn’t seem Connect app reads markdown.
out of curiosity does this do the quote thing to you? Cause it won’t for me, wasn’t sure if lemmy, my instance, or Connect. I just know MD is supposed to work.
EDIT: oh sure it works when I talk shit about it. Still though, your spoiler didn’t so maybe only some comes through. Idk.
On that topic, it’s been 20 days and you still haven’t managed to produce an answer; what are the “bizzare arguments” from hexbears, and how have they been “debunked so many times” ?
Oh, maybe read the comments again. It’s the classics :
Ukraine should follow Minsk agreements and all would be well (who cares that Russia didn’t and has broken a dozen other agreements)
it’s all because NATO is growing (lol)
Ukraine was shelling donbas, 14000 dead (yes, it was shelling Russian army in donbas,)
what about America (lame whataboutism)
Russia is there to protect a minority (sure, only that ask their leaders have said otherwise many times and have tried to annex land without a Russian minority)
Ukraine are nazis together with all the west (that’s just extreme right wing projection)
Russia is fighting the whole west (lol, the west didn’t even join in the last year defence budgets in EU and usa barely moved) …
You have nothing. You just repeat these dumb bizzare debunked claims that are illogical not only false. And it’s become very boring.
And you are trolling me again, aren’t you? Because you can’t be that dumb, can you?
Per the other reply to you, you might recall when I went over our consensus perspective on Ukraine, how it is motivated by understanding the best possible outcome for Ukrainian lives and contrasting this with the bloodthirsty liberal approach you’ve supported (all dressed up in “concern”).
Is it the “uninformed” and life-devaluing comments you’re referring to?
Your best possible outcome is far bloodier than anything I have in mind. You are just too stupid to see it. You are naive and don’t even see you are shoulder to shoulder with the worst people. Maybe check yourself every now and then.
Im replying in general, I blocked hexbear instance then and had no desire to go through same dumb discussion I have been through before and got the same faulty and illogical arguments. So I dont know what comment you are referring to. I’d be glad to see it if it’s not the same old shit again. And it is, isn’t it?
I love the combination of insults and degrading what I said while suggesting you never even read it (as you announced you were blocking the instance. Incidentally, instance-level blocking wasn’t possible at the time, to my knowledge. That’s part of Lemmy v0.19.x.
But not to worry! I’ll just share what I said with you again. Be sure to explain how it’s uninformed, stupid, and devalues Ukrainian lives! I’m just too big of a dum-dum to figure it out.
whataboutism
It points out the double standards westerners gladly accept in order to favor themselves and disadvantage others. How hollow the rhetoric is. How much rides on accepting propaganda, such as adopting the term “whataboutism” as a way to deflect from valid criticism. That’s an old cold war term you picked up, probably from society in general, but it was propaganda to help ensure Soviet criticisms of double standards could be dismissed by Amerikkkans.
Minsk 2, like we don’t know Russian army went in there with heavy weapons in 2014 and sponsored separatists
The form of this argument is “whataboutism” btw, lol.
But anyways, Russia’s presence in 2014 was at best covert and there’s little evidence. They did provide some supplies. However, why would this contradict any points made about Minsk 2? Anyone familiar with the diplomatic efforts knows that the West was far more brutal and aggressive, targeting civilians in Donbas, and repeatedly avoided diplomatic solutions. The (ignorant) rallying cry seems to be that Russia should have unilaterally done everything even while the West did nothing and even escalated. They didn’t even honor ceasefires.
that by helping the attacked invaded country, the west is somehow making it worse?
“Helping” is doing the heavy lifting in this sentence. If it’s making the situation worse, it isn’t helping, is it? The “it” matters. The “it” from the West is weapons, loans, and auctioning off the country to Western corporate interests. The latter two get called “aid” even though they throw the poorest country in Europe into deep debt and exploitation. The former is weapons, it is direct support for the war, and whether that is “helping” depends on your understanding of where this war is going, what the realistic outcomes are, and what unexplored alternatives exist to propping up the UA military.
The simple version is that UA is fucked. It is not going to win and “reconstruction”, if it ever comes from the West, will come at the price of foreign ownership, low wages, and further stripped social safety nets. Since it will lose, the question is really: how long do you want this to go on? How many Ukeainians do you want dead? I want none. The US government will accept any number so long as it hurts Russia. Do you accept any amount of dead Ukrainians so long as it hurts Russia? I don’t. I want those people alive.
Sending weapons just ensures more and more Ukrainians dying so that the West can “stick it” to Russia. Not so that UA will win. Not so that the outcome is better. So that the outcome is objectively worse, so long as it’s “hurting the right people”. And all the while, the less horrible options are kept off the table, which is to say, diplomacy. Both by simply avoiding or preventing talks as early as March last year, but by ensuring the Western populace is unable to accept diplomacy at this point. This is why they tell you UA is winning, that Russians are subhuman monsters, etc etc. So that you support endless violence and think diplomacy is a bad idea.
This is also all before we get to the MIC, which drives war to fill its pockets. This is another of the real reasons the “helping” is happening: so that Lockheed-Martin can sell more weapons, keep more millions, all while children are plunged back into poverty. They steal from our children and our lives so that more Russians and Ukrainians may die, and there’s always a new target of the violence ready to go for these bloodthirsty monsters.
Had you decided to listen rather than throw a tantrum, you might have learned these things.
So what you have is the same things all over again? Why are you doubling down on your own stupidity?
Whataboutism is of course not a way to deflect any criticism. It’s a fallacy. Double standard? What are you 5? Of course there is a double standard. Damn, you should get a medal for being last to arrive.
About Minsk 2 is not whataboutism because it refers to the same actual thing. That’s not how it works. There is more than enuguh evidence for Russian army supporting seperatists and going into donbas themselves. You speak of the west a lot like there is an entity called " the west". You are so naive, it shows you no idea at all how diplomacy and international relations with work.
I dont even know where to start explaining it to you, but for sure I don’t have enough time. Let me just point out the faults in your reasonings:
Ukraine is fighting for itself. There is no evil west there. They are fighting am occupying army. They would do it either way, if they got the help from anyone or not. They are just doing it far better with better weapons. If they didn’t have them they would still fight. They might totally be occupied, then they would fight like partisans and do terrorist actions. That is the situation. That is the alternative. Not some happy little world you imagine.
America sure like Russia being trashed with their old discontinued weapons they would have to pay lots of money to dispose otherwise. America spends hundreds of billions of dollars every year just for Russia on their military budget. Basically their whole military budget was there because of Russia. Now they are being trashed for peanuts. That’s the biggest strategic win America had in decades. But thinking that this is all the is is also naive. Because America is not one child person that feels one emotion. Diplomats are thinking about what happens after the war and it’s a very difficult situation to defeat Russia in a way that doesn’t create more problems later. And Russia is losing, there is no doubt about it. That’s not from some main stream media that you hate so much, you would rather listen to Moscow media. That’s coming from war analysts, economists. That’s coming from the change in tone of Russian propagandists. That’s coming from Putin asking north freaking Korea for help
The world is chaos and most of the time things happen for the most banal reasons. Like a lunatic that finds a reason to invade another country in a minority that lives there, like the sudeten Germans.
Sometimes when you want to see if you are on the right sight of history, check who your comrades are. Yours are the extreme right, trump, Orban, kim jon um,… I wouldnt want to be in that company.
So what you have is the same things all over again? Why are you doubling down on your own stupidity?
You said you forgot it, lol. It seems like you right now and you a few hours ago need to hash it out and determine whether you remember what I said.
Whataboutism is of course not a way to deflect any criticism. It’s a fallacy. Double standard? What are you 5? Of course there is a double standard. Damn, you should get a medal for being last to arrive.
Smartest commenter in the room isn’t familiar with formal vs. informal fallacies and that the latter are part of basically all argumentation.
Do you think being inconsistent and hoodwinked by propaganda is cool and good? You seem to be a really big fan of it and call people names when they aren’t on board.
About Minsk 2 is not whataboutism because it refers to the same actual thing. That’s not how it works.
It’s not the same thing though. It was pointed out that the West didn’t abide by Minsk II and your response was to say what about Russia though. No defense at all of what was accused, just switch focus to what your perceived opponent did. lol.
Sounds like you’re not a fan of a perceived double standard! Fallacy! [Insult]!
There is more than enuguh evidence for Russian army supporting seperatists and going into donbas themselves.
Go find some then! And pay attention to the dates! Also remind yourself of what I said about Russians in Donbas because you seem to have already forgotten it.
You speak of the west a lot like there is an entity called " the west". You are so naive, it shows you no idea at all how diplomacy and international relations with work.
There’s the US hegemony with its European clients that together call themselves “the west”, lol. It’s not like I made it up. I’m using terms most people will understand. Well except you, as you have a compulsion to piss on the carpet.
Ukraine is fighting for itself. There is no evil west there.
Minsk II was negotiated with Western mediators who were themselves primary diplomatic contacts for enforcement and disputes. This is why Putin was talking to Macron and Merkel, lol. I’m sure you’re aware of this, right? You seem exasperated by having to explain the basics to these tankies, right?
One should also understand that Ukraine is a very weak country that was subjected to Western meddling after Euromaidan. While there’s much to be said of it, the easiest way for those for whom this is new information to get a quick handle on it is to listen to the recordings of Nuland. A good listen, especially when it’s for the first time - but that couldn’t be you!
They are fighting am occupying army. They would do it either way, if they got the help from anyone or not.
This paragraph doesn’t address what I said at all. The point is that Ukraine is going to lose and sending more weapons rather than negotiating just stacks Ukrainian bodies (it is premised on falsehoods about Ukraine’s ability to succeed). More people, including Ukrainians, die by propping up the illusion of eventual victory.
The actual reason that lie is spread is because of the real value to the West: attempting to hurt Russia. The position you’re supporting is to trade Ukrainian dead for Russian dead. Bloodthirsty and callous. My position is to end it as soon as possible, i.e. fewer dead, including UA dead.
Now queue the pretzel logic of how escalations and avoiding diplomacy and lies of victory will somehow lead to fewer dead Ukrainians. How is that summer offensive going? Do you like the outcome of virtually zero progress on anything except dead Ukrainians and Russians? I don’t.
They are just doing it far better with better weapons. If they didn’t have them they would still fight.
A Ukraine that wasn’t getting this sham treatment would be negotiating.
They might totally be occupied, then they would fight like partisans and do terrorist actions. That is the situation. That is the alternative. Not some happy little world you imagine.
Oh? Is a happy little world what I described?
America sure like Russia being trashed with their old discontinued weapons they would have to pay lots of money to dispose otherwise. America spends hundreds of billions of dollars every year just for Russia on their military budget. Basically their whole military budget was there because of Russia. Now they are being trashed for peanuts. That’s the biggest strategic win America had in decades.
Oh, so one reason the war is being escalated so that the US can serve its own interests, including cycling weapons inventory? Some might say, the West?
You’re almost there. Don’t forget that the US couples this with new military contracts at home and debt in UA!
But thinking that this is all the is is also naive. Because America is not one child person that feels one emotion. Diplomats are thinking about what happens after the war and it’s a very difficult situation to defeat Russia in a way that doesn’t create more problems later.
Problems for themselves are the only ones they’d care about. There is no limit to the number of Slavic lives they’d sacrifice.
Though I do think I need to remind you that at no point have I suggested the only interest the US has is in sending weapons so it can feed its own MIC. I actually suggested several, even though I have no pretense of having listed an exhaustive set! See if you identify them! Here’s a freebie: in my exact reply on this I pointed out that UA is taking on debts.
And Russia is losing, there is no doubt about it.
Ahahahahahahahahaha
That’s not from some main stream media that you hate so much, you would rather listen to Moscow media.
What time is it in Moscow!? I’m sure this is a hit on Reddit.
That’s coming from war analysts, economists.
People that are classically uninvolved in propaganda narratives and are usuallycorrect. Incidentally, both of those groups have people who think exactly the opposite thing as well. Can you imagine!?
Oh and btw since I know you love talking about fallacies: appeal to authority. I’d loooove to see you figure out how to read and analyze any media or experts at all without using it, lol.
That’s coming from the change in tone of Russian propagandists.
The tone of Russian propagandists hasn’t really changed. It’s almost boring.
That’s coming from Putin asking north freaking Korea for help
Oh? Is that what happened? Please describe it without mentioning the cycling of old weapons stockpiles, since we agree on whose interests that benefits, right?
The world is chaos and most of the time things happen for the most banal reasons. Like a lunatic that finds a reason to invade another country in a minority that lives there, like the sudeten Germans.
You think Nazi expansionism was just one crazy guy’s idea? lol
Love to hear ahistorical Great Man Theory in condescensing lib posts.
Sometimes when you want to see if you are on the right sight of history, check who your comrades are. Yours are the extreme right, trump, Orban, kim jon um,…
How are they my comrades?
So, anyways, you forgot to do the one thing you were asked to do. Tell me how our position is uninformed and devalues Ukrainian life. You did manage to call the ideas stupid but had facile or ignorant points every time, but I’ll give you partial credit for trying.
You said you forgot it, lol. It seems like you right now and you a few hours ago need to hash it out and determine whether you remember what I said.
No, I said they are the same old debunked arguments and they are. Ive had this conversation before. It was the same, except your mental gymnastic routine is more awkward and cringe.
Smartest commenter in the room isn’t familiar with formal vs. informal fallacies and that the latter are part of basically all argumentation.
It doesnt matter what you call it, its irrelevant. Because america does it, does not excuse anyone else. Its still wrong and this is not a competition which country is the worst.
It’s not the same thing though. It was pointed out that the West didn’t abide by Minsk II and your response was to say what about Russia though. No defense at all of what was accused, just switch focus to what your perceived opponent did. lol.
You said it was the same. Its not. We are talking about the same situation. They are an involved party. Russia violated Minsk 2. They also violated dozens of other agreements that protected and aknowledged the borders of Ukraine. You dont care about that though.
Go find some then! And pay attention to the dates! Also remind yourself of what I said about Russians in Donbas because you seem to have already forgotten it.
Ive been this road before. There is no evidence possible that you wouldnt do cringey mental gymnastis around.
There’s the US hegemony with its European clients that together call themselves “the west”, lol. It’s not like I made it up. I’m using terms most people will understand. Well except you, as you have a compulsion to piss on the carpet.
Thats not what I wrote. You seem to be thinking that is a monolith entity. Its a naive thinking, like you know nothing about international relations.
Minsk II was negotiated with Western mediators who were themselves primary diplomatic contacts for enforcement and disputes. This is why Putin was talking to Macron and Merkel, lol. I’m sure you’re aware of this, right? You seem exasperated by having to explain the basics to these tankies, right?
So what? Who violated it and who violated all the other agreements? The idea that all would be fine if only Ukraine did nothing is laughable. Completely dissociated from reality.
One should also understand that Ukraine is a very weak country that was subjected to Western meddling after Euromaidan. While there’s much to be said of it, the easiest way for those for whom this is new information to get a quick handle on it is to listen to the recordings of Nuland. A good listen, especially when it’s for the first time - but that couldn’t be you!
Ukraine wanted what the west has. It didnt want what russia had. Russia has its own propaganda just like everyone else. If you read some books about russian covert activities you might be surprised. But nobody whats what they have.
This paragraph doesn’t address what I said at all. The point is that Ukraine is going to lose and sending more weapons rather than negotiating just stacks Ukrainian bodies (it is premised on falsehoods about Ukraine’s ability to succeed). More people, including Ukrainians, die by propping up the illusion of eventual victory.
If ukraine loses there isnt any ukraine left. Ukraine is fighting for some survivial. There is no negotiation possible because its clear Russia doesnt respect any agreements. Ukraine is going to win. The west wouldn’t send any weapons if they thought they couldnt. Ukraine has a clear path to victory. They are a nation and they are individuas who can decide if they want to fight or not. Its their call. Your hexbear buddies don’t seem to give them any agency. Its degrading and demeaning.
The actual reason that lie is spread is because of the real value to the West: attempting to hurt Russia. The position you’re supporting is to trade Ukrainian dead for Russian dead. Bloodthirsty and callous. My position is to end it as soon as possible, i.e. fewer dead, including UA dead.
Lol. That is like a foundation of all conspiracy theories: if somebody benefits from something, they must be the cause of it. Thats to funny. I bet you subscribe to other conspiracy theories. What are they? Global warming? Anti wax? It has to be anti wax, most of that crowd went onto supporting russia. Moon landing?
Now queue the pretzel logic of how escalations and avoiding diplomacy and lies of victory will somehow lead to fewer dead Ukrainians. How is that summer offensive going? Do you like the outcome of virtually zero progress on anything except dead Ukrainians and Russians? I don’t.
The summer offensive is going slow but steady. Russians can go home. Ukrainians are home and they decide how long to fight.
A Ukraine that wasn’t getting this sham treatment would be negotiating.
No they wouldn’t. There would be nothing to negotiate. Russia wouldn’t negotiate with someone who surrenders. Thats so bizzare you would think so.
Oh? Is a happy little world what I described?
That all would be great or something. Its stupid. It wouldn’t. Ukraine would disapear. There would be a lot of dead people.
Oh, so one reason the war is being escalated so that the US can serve its own interests, including cycling weapons inventory? Some might say, the West?
You’re almost there. Don’t forget that the US couples this with new military contracts at home and debt in UA! See, here is one of the issues you have. Its not the reason, its just a side benefit. Causality and causation. This is one of your main problems in the thinking you have. You have a conspiracy way of thinking.
And Russia is losing, there is no doubt about it.
Ahahahahahahahahaha Its funny that you think its funny, because the information you must get to think otherwise must be direct from the Kremlin.
People that are classically uninvolved in propaganda narratives and are usuallycorrect. Incidentally, both of those groups have people who think exactly the opposite thing as well. Can you imagine!?
Oh, who ever thinks differenty than you must be diametrically wrong. Lol. Thats lame. All the people that do extensive analisys, that go in depth into how the war is going, how the russian economy is doing, the contracts and aid Ukraine is getting, they all agree. The war might be long, but it Ukraine will win. I haven’t found any opinion that would be a thoughtful anaisys and not some oppinion piece that would say otherwise and I look. But true, i dont listen to kids on youtube wearing Z tshirts.
Oh and btw since I know you love talking about fallacies: appeal to authority. I’d loooove to see you figure out how to read and analyze any media or experts at all without using it, lol.
Lol, I dont think you know what appeal to authority is. That doesn’t mean any authority has no valid arguments.
The tone of Russian propagandists hasn’t really changed. It’s almost boring.
It has. Its much darker now. A lot of self pitty. They know things are not going well.
Oh? Is that what happened? Please describe it without mentioning the cycling of old weapons stockpiles, since we agree on whose interests that benefits, right?
It is about the stockpiles. But you know, stockpiles go bad. Munitions go bad and russia nad north korea are not know for their well management of stockpiles. And north korea is known for many other things.
You think Nazi expansionism was just one crazy guy’s idea? lol
Love to hear ahistorical Great Man Theory in condescensing lib posts. You know what I meant. You dont have to do jump around this one. Its really boring.
How are they my comrades?
They are on your side. Calling for the west to stop arming Ukraine. They have the exact same arguments you have. So much, that you should like their mouthpiece. Do you understand that? The worst people in the world and you are saying the same thing. I would think long and hard about why that is and if I want to be in that company.
So, anyways, you forgot to do the one thing you were asked to do. Tell me how our position is uninformed and devalues Ukrainian life. You did manage to call the ideas stupid but had facile or ignorant points every time, but I’ll give you partial credit for trying.
I already have, noumerous times. If you don’t want to see it, you wont see it.
Because you have no idea what war is and how it feels when foreign people come to your country and kill your friends and family. That tends to change peoples minds what is worth fighting for.
I would simply not die for a country thst didn’t appreciate me
Fucking hell. Tell me you have never had real hardships or had to make an impossible but necessary decision in your life.
“Uh, I’m super smart so I would just say no to fighting back if I was being murdered cause I would just stop being murdered. I’m so smart”
You are a child with simple views in a complicated world and that’s the kind of argument you expect from a 12 year old. Which is hexbear in a nutshell.
Have you done so many brain gymnastics that you think you genuinely care about the lives of Ukrainians, or are you aware that you’re lying for political points?
In what way do you actually value Ukrainian lives?
Yes that’s one of the disgusting ones. So naive and stupid. These hexbear people are degrading Ukrainians like they have no agency for themselves, like they have no wants and motivations as a nation and individuals. With these disgusting statements they are demeaning their fight and their lives. On the other hand there is the caricature America that somehow like an evil shaman, directs others into doing their bidding. Grotesque.
I lost any support for them when I saw them cheering the idea that North Korea should be able to nuke other countries as they all cheered happily “Death to America” with heart emojis like there would be no mass suffering and a complete lack of critical thought of what enabling bullies means for the suffering they are wanting to happen.
They are scared idiots who think appeasing bullies means they will have an easier life and not have to think about how bad things sometimes just have to happen because not everyone is good at heart.
Then they cover it with false claim that they support all people and they only support communism because of how it would support everyone equally.
If you actually care about people you don’t root for suffering and hurting and you definitely don’t wave flags for the bullies just cause it’s an easier answer. Life isn’t so easy and they don’t want to hear it.
The people that whine about safe spaces tend to have safe spaces of their own, and glaringly so, like “free speech” forums that ban people for opposing nazi shit.
Yeah man WTF happened there. I just saw a "deleted by moderator" comment and a shit load of people responding quoting the comment with a bunch of I guess hate speech about LGBT? What the hell were they even talking about lmao
Yeah, sometimes it’s great to nuke some popcorn and just have a good ol’ guilty watch. But this was one of those times where things got so pathetic it felt icky even spectating.
Some redditors just bring the worst of reddit with them when coming to the fediverse, like tracking mud into the house. Some are still recovering, and slowly acclimating to the fact that you don’t have to be an overly defensive, argumentative prick all the time. Some just stay that way because it’s all they know. Some are still learning that every difference of opinion doesn’t have to become a tiresome debate. Some are OK people. Some are just plain assholes.
As a reddit refugee, I’m in that paragraph somewhere. I’m only half joking when I call it PRSD - Post Reddit Stress Disorder.
The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has “Democratic” in it’s name, but no reasonable person actually consider them democratic. Just because a country claims to be something, doesn’t make it true.
If China was Communist or Socialist, they wouldn’t have wealthy billionaires. It’s just a cover for their authoritarianism.
That’s not how communism ends up being, it looks great on paper but once a human element is added it goes it shit and some people will be richer than others. It doesn’t make what they have capitalism by any stretch. It’s got bits of the free market there but thinking they’ve got anything like capitalism in the West is a joke.
No, the countries you think are communist just were never actually communist they just claim to be or other people claim they are. There are very few actual communist countries, if there are any at all. To be communist you have to be classless with everyone equal to each other. China is not communist, Russia is not communist, Cuba is not communist.
Lol ahh yes the tankie excuse of “that’s not real communism”…no it’s real communism because that’s how it always turns out. Stop trying to defend the shit.
“that’s not real communism” is something no “tankie” ever said. It is strawman set up exactly by the people like those the original meme mock, the white westerner pseudoleft idealists.
All the countries mentioned in the original meme were/are socialist and it was/is glorious. Westolefto can eat shit, their succdem and ultra movements didn’t achieved even 1/1000 of what ML’s did.
By all means please leave and move to these glorious places. I heard russia needs meat for their “glorious” fight against the “Nazi” Ukrainians and the evil west.
Ahh thanks for the great reminder for all the tankies about communism failing for China and all these nations so they had to incorporate capitalism and allowed privatization of industries.
USSR did it, China did it, Vietnam did it, Cuba is doing it.
hexbear users can’t see this comment, so it falls on my sleep-deprived ass to point out that socialist nations essentially have two options: 1) ban all capitalism and be banned from trade in turn, like Cuba and the USSR, or 2) permit some measure of capitalism, give the west its profits, and use that as leverage to gain access to trade, like China and Vietnam. You either play ball or get strangled to death.
don’t count on it. back before i switched instances i had to read hexbear users unironically praising china’s “democratic dictatorship.” highly recommend reading the wikipedia article on it; it’s actually incredibly uninformative.
edit, to be clear, it’s a lot of describing the history of the phrase and vague ideas about the interactions between “the bourgeoisie, proletariat, and economy,” with nothing at all about how it actually is implemented into the government and differs from a regular dictatorship in any way. probably because it doesn’t. here
You literally can not view Hexbear comments and posts because .World defederated from them. You replied asking where the tankies everyone is complaining about are and got your response. I don’t even know what you’re trying to say.
Just so you know, they are posting here but you can’t see their comments. Make an account in an instance that hasn’t defederated with them (like lemm.ee) and you’ll see their comments here.
You don’t get it. I don’t care about hexbear because it’s not as big a deal as of all lemmy makes it out to be. What I don’t understand is if everyone has a problem with them why they choose to stay on an instance that doesn’t defederate them. Obviously their instance will be smaller giving communities like hexbear an even larger voice. If users actually cared they would simply move to an instance where they don’t have to encounter them. I’m not going to ee or some shit just to upset myself. Absolutely not going to one-on-one a bunch of ideologues, lol.
Can you fucking understand it is so fucking annoying to see people complain constantly about tankies when it’s a totally contrived conflict?
Which to me, screams FSB and I’ve seen this propaganda in 1990s textbooks. It’s all contrived to fabricate anti-communist sentiment.
Well, that or Marx purists. Marx believed that the transition between capitalism and socialism would include a period where the state was fulfilling capitalist roles and run as the infamous “dictatorship of the proletariat.”
He never quite seems to explain how democracy arises from said dictatorship, or the people’s recourse when it inevitably corrupts.
You want water while waiting in line to vote in the same state where we shut down polling locations and tried to ‘find’ nonexistent votes? Nope, don’t like that ether!
There is a stage in the transition to communism called ‘the oppression of the proletariat’ aka ‘dictatorship’. Supposedly it should be a temporary stage before transitioning into a more decentralized type of government. As far as I am aware, not any communist revolution got beyond the dictatorship stage as absolute power corrupts.
The vast majority of (Let’s use Vietnam as an example) is proletariat. So the vast majority of people are dictating terms to a small subset with different class interests. It’s nothing like the dictatorship in, let’s say the Netherlands, where a small group of capitalists dictate terms to the large body of proletariat, and the bourgeois political apparatus mediates in favour of bourgeoisie class interests. There’s no corruption taking place, just the necessities of market economics.
This dictatorship will naturally “dissolve” when there are no more other classes (bourgeoisie et all) to oppress, since it will no longer serve the proletariat’s interests.
Specifically “dictatorship of the proletariat”, which was basically an 1800s gothic way to say “direct democracy for workers”. Marx is somewhat infamous for the way he makes his ideas sound scarier than they are
And to clarify, most revolutions fail or adopt bureaucracy primarily to defend themselves from outside, capitalist influence, power corruption probably plays a part too but state power used by socialists is actually part of the plot
hexbear was unfederated for three years, are you saying they just sat around all that time pretending to be queer communists to each other with no audience? Would thousands of people really check in to a website daily or weekly for years just to do that?
Sure. Fellowship is an important part of maintaining a weird cult-like ideological stance.
Also we can’t ignore the fact that there’s some national interest juice behind this. China being a fascist country that’s claiming to be communist to maintain legitimacy (and maintain power for the elites in that country) means there’s significant resources that can be used to maintain the narrative that fascism branded as socialism is a good thing.
And dumb people love the idea that they’re the small group that is getting things right, it’s just the rest of the world that’s wrong. See flat earthers, qanon, etc. They get in their little community where (unlike the rest of the world) no one tells them they’re an idiot when they say their stupid bullshit. All they have to do is conform to the overall narrative the community is centered around and they don’t need to do any critical thinking, and gain a sense of acceptance despite being an idiot.
imagine how awful it would be to spend hours in a long back and forth with someone like this trying to convince them that you have a nuanced perspective and justifications for it and you are not a stupid, monstrous, cult-like fanatic, all while they do not listen to you because they already know you are those things and therefore nothing you say is worth considering
Kind of what political discourse is on social media. Saying things to appease with the network your account is in so you can continue to accepted by them. Most prominent social media “personalities” don’t care about the issues, but only want to appear to care about the issues.
I’d much prefer to talk to someone that honestly disagrees with me rather than someone who’s disagreement is performative in order to please their friend network. It’s possible (though maybe still unlikely) to convince someone who is honest about their views. Someone that’s performative will continue to disagree because you aren’t the one they’re really talking to. It’s the “friend” network they’re always speaking to regardless of who’s comment they’re placing theirs under.
I don’t think they are pretending to be those things. They truly believe themselves and their interpretation of Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, communism and socialist projects to be true and just.
The only issue is that they come from a specific strain of western leftist that got into the “uwu dank Soviet club” meme of the mid-10s and never evolved past that understanding of the people, projects, policies and states they stan like a fandom. They could take some lessons from the anarchists tbqh, but they’d rather post PPB and “liberals get the wall”. Very annoying.
they’d rather post PPB and “liberals get the wall”.
what do you want from them, a good faith response? when half the people they talk to are people like this guy? or people like you, who dismiss their views from a distance and respond with with superficial vibes-based criticisms while having little or no understanding of what they actually think or why?
I dismiss their views out of hand because I have history with people who espoused very similar views and they showed themselves to have a very superficial understanding of leftism, socialism, communism, and various leftist writers. They exalt historical figures of communist movements to apostolic, sometimes even deity-like status, and throw theory at people like it’s scripture. They take the counter to the west’s propaganda against communism to be full-throated propagandists for communist projects, even for valid criticisms.
But really, even if their political lens was the truest and freest, I still would not like them because they are fucking obnoxious and utterly insufferable. They larp on their local instance about “performing coups on other instances” and “doing the emotional labor of educating Lemmy users” when in reality they are abrasive, unpleasant people hamfistedly applying leftist social and economic critiques as a cudgel to dunk on people if they don’t automatically agree with them, be they fascist, racist, liberal or even leftist.
I saw the debacle with Blahaj and how Hexbear users acted. Whatever critique of their adminship could have been made is completely drowned out by the manipulative yet dense behavior of their accusers during and after.
What I want from them is to not immediately look for reasons to take the least charitable interpretation of someone’s point and derail threads, stop acting as if they own every single instance, stop larping as if they are building a leftist revolution across the fediverse and go outside, and to stop posting obnoxiously large server emojis all over every fucking thread.
It’s a distinct blend of the worst of Reddit communists and Twitter users and I don’t appreciate it when they decide to pull that nonsense in other instances beyond their own.
I don’t care what comes after this. I still read it, but I don’t care. “You knew some people, therefore hexbear is those people.”
they are fucking obnoxious
what do you say about the guy I linked to in the last comment? You don’t think hexbear’s obnoxiousness might be a reaction to years of talking to people like that? You don’t think maybe at this point they expect it and that’s why they’re flippant?
not immediately look for reasons to take the least charitable interpretation of someone’s point
look at how your own instance talks, this is absurdly hypocritical.
I don’t care what comes after this. I still read it, but I don’t care.
Cool, I suppose I shouldn’t take any of your arguments seriously then.
“You knew some people, therefore hexbear is those people.”
No, I knew some people who showed bad behavior, and Hexbear users are showing similar behavior.
what do you say about the guy I linked to in the last comment?
Yeah, they’re somewhat obnoxious. It’s annoying to see communists lumped in widely with fascists. They aren’t 14-year-old Stalin-fancam sea-lion-posting-in-every-Lemmy-instance obnoxious though.
You don’t think hexbear’s obnoxiousness might be a reaction to years of talking to people like that? You don’t think maybe at this point they expect it and that’s why they’re flippant?
Maybe it is a reaction to to people like that. I do not give a fuck. Unless they’re picking beef with long-storied rivals, everyone else has been here for 2-3 months, maybe less. We are not the collective animus of every anti-communist they’ve ever met. We’re people here to form link aggregator communities, and it’s unacceptable for them to treat people here as punching bags for their past frustrations just because they have a bit of social power here.
There’s a wide range of people with political opinions here, and left-wing populism is quite popular here. If they changed their engagement, more people would be amenable to their community. But if they insist on acting the fool, they will eventually be sent back to the circus.
look at how your own instance talks, this is absurdly hypocritical.
Talk like what, furries? They’re mostly nerds, not much political discourse there. Small twinge of liberalism/leftism maybe.
they’re not past frustrations. look around. In fact, look at yourself, with your “I already know what hexbears think and why without ever talking to them” dismissal. That is frustrating, right now in the present, because you don’t know what you don’t know. Hexbears are well-read and have detailed, serious takes, which they generally do not post outside their own instance because no one gives a shit and no one will read them. You actually can’t just understand them at a glance based on vibes and some people you knew once. And it’s obviously arrogant to think you can. And that arrogance is fucking frustrating, especially since you don’t even realize you’re being arrogant and you’re bewildered that people react poorly to it.
There’s that joke about wearing regular clothes on Halloween to go as the “gifted kid”, and when people ask what you’re supposed to be you sigh and say you were supposed to be a lot of things.
I could totally have seen this been a joke delivered by Dexter, going out for Trick or Treating with Asher and Cody, or going to an office costume party.
I want to wholeheartedly believe the caliper has the size the customer wants and the pipe is bigger, therefore inappropriate. I’ve never met anyone who would use a caliper this way, I’ve seen people trying to eyeball it or use it as a ruler but not like this
Imma upvote you for the quote, but YSK it’s “risible” which is an additional layer of humour if you’re familiar with Latin (which was what the Romans spoke), because “risible” is an archaic English word from around the 1600s meaning “to provoke laughter”, which is itself based on the Latin word “ris”, which means “laugh”. “Ridere” means “to laugh” and “ridiculus” means “laughable”.
I was on tilt because I took the bait. And then I got confused because I’m like this doesn’t make sense gas is safe. And then I’m wondering why isn’t a pair of lungs on display not flagged as not safe for work. Then I looked at the forum and then I got even more confused because I’m stoned. And then I realize that’s a walnut and it’s time for a snack. A roasted one even. Boom roasted. What up. Peace out.
Yeah gas is only “safe” with a full fume hood. Even then not as safe as they used to think, but most people don’t have real fume hoods in their home, or don’t even crack a window when they use the gas.
We should at least use propane if we have to cook indoors with hydrocarbons
Yeah many people don’t “shut off” their stoves. There’s a pilot light constantly emitting a little bit of benzene. The apartment unit I lived in for years had gas stoves with pilot lights in all the units
Most gas stoves I’ve used have electric starters, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen one with a pilot light. I’m in the US for reference, not sure how it is elsewhere.
Wonder where EU city gas would be on a good - bad scale. I have never heard about the dangerosity of gas stoves except the obvious (it’s like burning) here in France and we cook & heat water with it.
Researchers have estimated that around 12-13% of childhood asthma cases in countries like Australia and the United States can be attributed to the use of gas stoves for cookingSource: Nationalasthma.org.au
*Stanford University researchers measured emissions for 53 stoves while on and off. *
[…]
Seventy-six percent of unburned methane leaked out through pipes and fittings when stoves were off.
[…]
A gas stove also pollutes when it is off. A 2022 study found that gas stoves, even when not in use, can leak as much benzene, a carcinogen, as secondhand cigarette smoke. Another study that analyzed natural gas samples found that 95 percent of them contained benzene, for which there is no safe level. That study also found 21 hazardous air pollutants in unburned gas, including hexane and toluene, which can affect the nervous system, liver, and kidneys.
It is believed that people can have visions or hallucinations that will match whatever they believe in when they are dying. For some it is Jesus, for others it is nothing or memories. It is interesting to think about that when dying or being close to it, your brain will just make up whatever makes it feels the most reassured. The real question is why?
Maybe our perception of this as positive is cultural? Ancient people might have survived near death experiences, and it shaped our society to the point that we believe being reassured while dying is good. We aren’t angered or frightened by our brains lying to us in this particular situation.
Well it is not necessarily always a positive experience. There have been instances where it scared them so bad that they changed they way they lived. Like they believe they had been sent to hell.
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