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InternetCitizen2 ,

If this was downtown or at parks I can kinda see them providing something. Knowing this is likely at a university library or building its just removing access that was already there.

akilou ,

Fuck that. If it’s downtown or at a park the fucking municipality can afford $1.99/mo

We need more public facilities. This privatization bullshit can kick rocks

KazuyaDarklight ,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

The heart of what you’re saying is right, but it isn’t 1.99, it’s 1.99x whatever their expected ussage/power/maintenance metrics are.

dual_sport_dork , (edited )
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

No, it’s just what the usage/power/maintenance is. It’s not $1.99 times anything. $1.99 doesn’t enter into it anywhere. $1.99 was made up out of the whole cloth.

akilou ,

Right this is what I really mean. It’s a trivial cost in the grand scheme of things for a municipality to provide public drinking fountains. This shouldn’t be outsourced to a for profit private enterprise.

intensely_human ,

I don’t think the thing costs only $2 to install? $2 price per liter of refrigeration on your water does not imply the the system costs $2

KazuyaDarklight ,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

It’s going to sound like I’m defending them in some way, which I’m really not because the whole thing is stupid, but they’re not charging for the drinking fountain they’re charging for the cold filtered water, which is going to incur some kind of power and maintenance cost that’s while negligible at scale is beyond the norm. Room temperature tap water is still free here.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Sorry I really hate this line of thinking.

I also hate privatising costs for social services so we’re in agreement on that…

… but no cost faced by the municipality is trivial. They correct taxes to pay for it. You can go to the meetings and have your say in how it’s spent. More water fountains means more money.

If it were up to me we would increase taxes so we could have all the fountains.

KazuyaDarklight ,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

Refrigerant and filter systems need to be powered, replaced and maintained, that DOES cost money. What math, if any of substance, was applied on top of that cost to reach the subscription price is debatable. Though perhaps ironically, if they didn’t expect many people to actually bite, then the cost per user would end up being abnormally high.

dual_sport_dork ,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Refrigerated water fountains have been existing in parks, schools, libraries, and public buildings for decades with no on-demand cost to their end users. Our tax dollars paid for them easily and the cost is obviously trivial compared to everything else your local or state government spends money on.

There is no valid justification for this. It’s just greed.

Promethiel ,
@Promethiel@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you for stating the obvious. I fucking hate this future where even the basics of the past are starting to seem unreal. Little gray cubes with a wide bar you push and out comes cold water from a spout at the top; used to be everywhere outdoors growing up.

Trainguyrom ,

Realistically the cost of filtration is already covered by the municipal water system’s budget, and the power and maintenance is already covered by the cities parks/public infrastructure budgets. So there is a small cost, but it’s at a scale where it’s negligible

KazuyaDarklight ,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

Obviously it isn’t, if it was there wouldn’t be a user facing cost. The fact this is a private venture basically proves that wherever this is, the municipality or building owner is only committed to providing tap water (which we see here is “free”) the cost is for the extra, private, infrastructure that has been added in order to provide cold filtered water. If you aren’t US, I’ll note that municipal water treatment and filtering vs the more “Britta” level implied here are entirely different and very much a thing for some people.

itsnotits ,

it’s* just removing access

ch00f ,

www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=(specific+heat+of+wa…

200kjoules of heat must be removed from a gallon of water to cool from 55F to 32F (out of the ground down to pleasant drinking temperature).

Assuming a COP of 2 for your compressor (conservative), that’s 100kjoules or 1/36 of a kWh.

High price for a kWh of electricity is $0.25 in the US. So for your $2 subscription, you can pay for 8kWh per month or enough to cool 288 gallons of water or roughly 9 gallons per day. More than anybody would rightly use.

What a fucking ripoff.

TheDezzick ,

Not to mention that, in a place like a public park, 55F water is totally fine. It isn’t the coolest most refreshing drink of all time but it’s damn good from a public fountain on a 90F day.

intensely_human ,

I drink to hydrate anyway. The thing that’s satisfying to me is liquid going in. The temperature’s nice if it’s cool but if it’s cold I can’t drink the water fast.

intensely_human ,

You’re also paying for the installation of a refrigeration system right at the point where you want water.

ch00f , (edited )

Sure, but if everyone drinks a half gallon a day (still a lot for a normal person), that’s still 95% revenue which will absorb the installation cost quickly, and maintenance is minuscule on something like this.

Not to mention that since its subscription based, a broken dispenser is actually more profitable in the short term.

TheKMAP ,

Take unlimited water and sell it

intensely_human ,

No it’s providing new access. Used to be, you had to take refrigerated water. Now you can have room temperature water which is superior because you can actually just drink it instead of having to sip it ultra slow.

ReveredOxygen ,
@ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

The fact that it adds access to room temperature water doesn’t change the fact that it removes access to cold water

TokenBoomer ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/08c3fed9-4dea-4ebc-8acf-c41a9bcd4f17.jpeg

CaptDust ,

I’m not going to hate the company for trying, but if you’re a building admin using these instead of Oasis or Elkay fill stations you’re a huge fucking asshole.

conditional_soup ,

But with all the money they’re saving, they’ll be able to renovate the admin building for the first time in two years, or have a nice dinner for the big donors, or give even more money to the football team.

Edit: assuming this is a uni. If not: won’t someone please think of the investors?

scrion ,

I don’t see why this kind of behavior should be excused if exhibited by a company vs. an individual. Would you also not fault your friends “for trying” to be an asshole to you in day to day life? Are humans not making the strategic decisions for that company?

intensely_human ,

The company’s not trying to be an asshole it’s trying to make some money

CaptDust ,

I mean people can develop and sell whatever product they want at the price they want. Usually I’d recommend voting with your wallet, but presumably this would be up to facility management to install these for a captive audience, who wouldn’t have much choice in the matter.

somewhiteguy ,

Is it still a thing? The website doesn’t go anywhere and I can’t find the app. All I can actually find are a few articles talking about how ridiculous it is to have a $2 subscription service on water fountains.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

All I could find were articles from 2017 and I haven’t heard of it before, so I’m gonna say it’s not a thing any more.

CaptDust ,

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/b0354e2c-da65-407e-a6f5-652cfd3591a4.png

Krauerking ,

Oh that’s funny. I still see these things installed in some buildings but it’s not like I ever saw anyone bother with the “premium water” but also now sodastream is getting in on it for I think a higher cost actually…

Ugh. Please let this whole concept of selling tap water die.

partial_accumen ,

I found this indiegogo link from 7 years ago which gives a little more background. Its not quite as horrible as the picture suggests, I think.

There’s some FAQ and Comments that give some background, like this one:

Rier Esor 7 years ago I’ve been asked by a few people: why do we need reefill water stations when there are water fountains around NYC (if you look hard enough!) and we >all have tap water at home? What’s my best answer?

Patrick Connorton 7 years ago PROJECT OWNER We’re also working with New York City and the Port Authority to map free public bottle filling stations around town – these are usually in or near >parks but, unfortunately, need to be off six months a year to avoid freezing and can be challenging to maintain. Reefill is a natural complement to >these fountains, filling in the gaps in parts of town where it is impractical or cost-prohibitive to install a water fountain.

So it doesn’t sound like these were replacing existing free water fountains, but instead offering free (and paid) water in places never offered before by generating revenue from the paid water to support the installation of any water (including new free water) in places that had none before.

It also looks like the project died in 2019.

deweydecibel ,

filling in the gaps in parts of town where it is impractical or cost-prohibitive to install a water fountain.

As usual, if it’s a gap in our public services, the answer is not “let a private company do it” it’s “tax the fucking rich and use that money to improve our public services”.

Those water fountains didn’t even need to be water fountains. This was basically just a bastardized version of what they do in the UK. There’s a program over there called Refill, that businesses and public places participate in. You use a free app that shows you the locations of participating places, and those places have refill points, all for free.

This person probably saw that and thought “let’s ditch the free and the volunteer participation part, build unnecessary fountains in unsustainable areas, and try and make some money off that sweet public utility”

deegeese ,

Smear something gross on the torment nexus button.

KoboldCoterie ,
@KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

The best part about this is that the thumbnail makes the device like a face that’s very fed up with this shit.

underwire212 ,

Here’s something that could be provided for free. Instead of innovating, I’m going to invent a shit version of this thing, give you free access to that, and then charge for the original version.

shalafi ,

Cooling and filtering water is hardly free, nor is the added maintenance. I don’t know the context here but it may be something the building should be paying for.

ch00f , (edited )

Even if it was free, opening an app to get water is bullshit.

Edit: Let the record show, I was referring to the chilled water.

lud ,

It clearly says that you can push the button to get water.

Jessica ,

It “clearly” says, “USE APP TO ACCESS”, so no, you can’t just push the button. It has to verify your subscription first.

Okokimup ,

It only requires the app for chilled and filtered. The regular tap water is still available.

Jessica ,

@ch00f said, “Even if it was free…” which implies he’s talking specifically about the paid button on the right and not the free button on the left.

The implication being even if the chilled and filtered water was also free, having to open an app for the button to work would be bullshit.

milicent_bystandr ,

Meh, he says, “opening an app to get water.” I think there’s some fudging going on here.

Water is available with no app.

Certain processed water is offered with an app.

lud ,

I think OP needs to explain because i also disagree with you.

Facebones ,

Put me down on team “even if it was free…”

Keep fighting the good fight, it turns out words mean things.

lud ,

Free what is obviously app less though.

Ibaudia ,
@Ibaudia@lemmy.world avatar

Why are people trying to justify this, the city can put in chilled water taps like those Elkay ones for super cheap. Then when shitty businesses like these go under, you aren’t left with a useless machine with no other water source nearby. Relying on private entities for basic things like this is just objectively a bad idea if it can be at all avoided.

sharkfucker420 ,
@sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

Would genuinely break this on sight

Death_Equity ,

Turn off the valve, service call them to bankruptcy.

vox ,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

but tbf that costs money.
cooling down takes a lot of electricity and filters need replacement pretty frequently and they’re not cheap.
doesn’t justify a fucking subscription tho, this shoud just accept like a coin per cup or something

Alenalda ,

Remember the fountains we had back in middle school? If I could pay 2$ a month to get water from a fountain that the grossest kids in school didn’t stick their mouths around, I probably would

Fluffy_Ruffs , (edited )

I honestly don’t have a problem with this so long as the tap water is clean and drinkable. Everyone should have free access to clean drinking water. If it has to be filtered and chilled to a crisp cool temperature for you to drink it? Yeah, you can pay for that. That’s a luxury.

Refrigeration takes energy and filters produce waste so I see it as fair charging a price for convenience.

BranBucket ,

I feel that the majority of innovation occuring in modern capitalism is confined to two key areas:

  1. Regulatory capture and market control.
  2. New ways to mindfuck people into overpaying for goods and services.
SlopppyEngineer ,

These days that’s called “business model innovation”

intensely_human ,

So like video games, cars, slap bracelets, chicken fries, winnebegos, movies, music, none of that’s “innovation” under capitalism? Just the antisocial types? Nobody’s come up with anything interesting under capitalism?

BranBucket ,

Most of those things were products of earlier times, when our economic system and industries were more regulated and had a larger number of competitive entities. “Innovation” now is just more cupholders in the RV to put your chicken fries in. All flash, no substance. Everything is an AI wearable tacked on to something else we’ve already had for years.

EV battery tech, there’s some decent work being done there. A few other niche cases like that. But the rest is one big fucking con game. It’s all a race to find out how much money you can gouge out of people before the system just breaks.

DaddleDew ,

Productive innovation ceases the moment growth has reached its peak. It is then replaced by counterproductive “innovation”, such as finding new ways to nickel and dime your customers, reduction in quality or dismissal of employees. All in the name of simulating “growth” to please the shareholders.

barsquid ,

The entire country has incentivized its top minds to developing ad tech bullshit. Like literally our astrophysicists are working at Stitch Fix instead of doing astrophysics.

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

Like literally our astrophysicists are working at Stitch Fix instead of doing astrophysics.

I’m honestly here wondering if this is some guerilla marketing for Stitch Fix or if there’s some more story to this.

barsquid ,

Oh, no. They’re fast fashion, right? That can’t be great for the environment.

Article is here, kinda interesting in a depressing sort of way: archive.is/E0NWk

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

Thanks for sharing.

Four years later, Moody works for Stitch Fix too. He belongs to a growing group of astrophysicist deserters, who have stopped researching the cosmos to start building recommendation algorithms and data models for the tech industry. They make up the data science teams at companies like Netflix and Spotify and Google.

[…] The decision to leave academia came down to a few factors: The pay was certainly better, and the jobs were more plentiful. “There’s a bottleneck of getting into tenure-track positions,” he says. And being in the Bay Area meant he and his wife—who is also an astrophysicist—would never have to worry about both finding jobs. But the real surprise, he says, was that the work in tech companies was actually interesting. At Beats, he says, he found “like-minded people who were working on problems that didn’t take away the intellectual high.” Same math, different application.

If that’s not an alarm that screams for science funding, I don’t know what is.

Krauerking ,

I help setup ad placement TVs for resort style businesses.

Studied theoretical astrophysics and astro xenobiology as a double advanced major…

My boss used to brag he managed to get the astronaut in his team so, I am useful for facts and puzzles.

God I hate my existence.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Sorry chief I hate those TVs.

I’m sure you’re great and everyone needs a little sugar in their bowl or whatever but… IDK. I hope you find a more fulfilling job soon.

Krauerking ,

LOL I hate those TVs too but don’t mind when I get to install like just a good menu or informational directory. Key word good. But I’m just supposed to make a thing that works and looks good for the 11 seconds of your attention we expect to have of you.

The worst part is that I don’t even make good money really. Just slightly more than a regular office job and I got here from doing my passion at the time of advanced robotic screens. But they are all hyper niches that are like impossible to move around or within.

But yeah gotta figure out what fulfilling means these days.

Trainguyrom ,

Don’t forget the super fun B2B market where one business overcharges another business to outsource functions that really should be done in-house so then businesses can talk about “the cost of doing business increasing” when really it’s that they have purchased too many services and those services are all at various states of enshitification

zakobjoa ,
@zakobjoa@lemmy.world avatar

I am not often in favour of shooting people.

For legal reasons this concludes my statement.

mister_monster ,

This product is going to fail.

p5yk0t1km1r4ge ,
@p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

It died in 2019.

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