Islamic Jihad, a group separate from Hamas and not getting missiles from Iran, cobbles together their own home-made rocket made out of duck tape and twine and fires it at Israel. The rocket, unsurprisingly, falls apart and part of it falls on the parking lot of Gaza city hospital, killing about a dozen or so people. Hamas rushes to the scene and asks how many are dead. Gaza hospital says 500 - 12 from the missile and 488 from the … you know siege and food/medicine blockade.
Hamas knows that the IDF has targeted this hospital before and had no doubt that they would it again, and since the missile didn’t come from them, releases a press release saying the IDF bombed a hospital and 500 are dead. This makes President Abbas call off his meeting with Biden and throws a wrench in the peace process, just what Hamas wants.
The IDF initially just say “Hamas did it,” and if you disagree we’ve got this new law that jails reporters for saying bad stuff about Israel. Then they release a video footage of a different rocket barrage that has nothing to do with anything. Biden comes over and goes: “Come on, this isn’t the cold war, it’s the information age. We’ve got like 10 live web cams throughout Gaza city streaming, OSINT probably got it. If you didn’t do it, there ain’t any reason to lie about it.”
Of course, that is just what I got from Lemmy, so probably a mix of propaganda from both sides. Feel free to yell all the corrections in the world in the replies.
Not necessarily, just not fucking stupid enough to say otherwise while his own country is also fighting a defensive war against what might be considered russian terror. 101 public relations
His own country could also be considered to fight against illegal occupants violating their territorial integrity. I really feel like you got the sides switched on this one, chief.
Im not sure what this is trying to say. Obviously the Ukraine is fighting a defensive war, which I rephrased a bit so the statement regarding Israel might fit on their situation as well. What sides did I get supposedly switched here?
Palestinians are fighting a defensive war against the occupation of their territory that has been steadily progressing since 1948.
Ukrainians are (reportedly) fighting a defensive war against the occupation of their territory. (I would dispute that fact somewhat, but that s a whole another can of worms).
That’s the reason for me saying you got the sides switched.
I read like like he can’t say that Ukranians vs Russians is like Palestinians vs Israelis because if he did it, he would be losing military support from several countries for his defense of Ukraine (namelly the US, where there is a massive and well-entrenched pro-Israel lobby which would quite likely fuck up any further funding and military help from the US to Ukraine), so he has to choose his words and say what’s best for Ukraine.
For the good of Ukraine there is really only one thing he can say, and that’s what he said.
Yes, I can fully agree with that. However, with these and other incidents by now, can we stop acting like Zelensky possesses some kind of intrinsic moral high ground? He’s doing his best to secure further military and economic support for the war, and he’s implicitly or openly supporting genocidal regimes in order to do so. As you said, he’s trying to achieve his goals through whatever means are necessary. I’m just tired of pretending that he’s some sort of saint.
I also take issue with your implication that further arms deals and military funding = best for Ukraine. I really cannot see a world where continuing to fight on (with no clear end in sight) is better than making territorial concessions and beginning to rebuild the wrecked nation.
The solution of territorial concessions was the one tried between Ukraine and Russia after the latter took over Ukranian territory in the form of Crimea and the occupation of part of the Dombas by proxy forces, and the result was, some years later, a new and far more aggressive and deadly invasion by Russia to get more territory.
Add to that the very openly repeated desires of the russian leadership - to conquer Ukraine and beyond - and it’s not in any way form or shape logic to assume that repeating the very same “solution” of territorial concessions to Russia and the exact same leadership would result in anything but a new attempt by Russia in a few years - after they had time to rebuilt their military power - to take over Ukraine, destroying all that “rebuilding of the wrecked nation” you claim your “peace through concessions” would yield.
Your suggestion would make sense at the time of the Crimean invasion and in fact was what was done back then, but given that now we have seen that the result over the medium/long term of giving such concessions to Russia is more and more deadly invasions by them, trying it again at this moment and with the knowledge of the results of that from last time around, and expecting a different result, is the very definition of Insanity.
You want to trade the current situation conquered by Ukranians at great cost, of a limited front were 2 armies fight each other and thus the death and destruction happens almost entirely there and almost entirelly between military forces, for a future replay of massacres of civilians like the ones the Russians did in Bucha, Irpin and Melitopol when the Ukranian military was not yet in a position to stop them.
Given all that has been going on since 2014 and especially all that the Russian leadership did and said since this invasion started, such a “territorial concession to Russia” suggestion is at best insane or idiotic, and quite possibly just plain evil.
And I haven’t even gone into the Morality of rewarding mass murder with land, and I’m not so sure “insanity” or “idiocy” explain wanting a mass murderer to be rewarded for it.
For him to point out the similarity of being faced with a much large occupier nation than themselves between the position of Ukranians and Palestinians, would pretty much guarantee the end of US military support to Ukraine as the US Congress has several “Friends of other country” groups of parliamentarians (how exactly is being in the parliament of one country defending the interests of a different country not treason?) for various countries, the largest of which is “Friends of Israel” and that group probably controls more than enough members of Congress to stop any future funding of military help to Ukraine.
So yeah, Zelenswky is doing the correct thing in diplomatic terms for his country, unlike many other politicians who don’t act for the good of their own country.
Also lets not forget Hamas is supported by Iran, who has provided drones to Russia to kill Ukranians for over a year now, so yeah, even if he empathises with the plight of Palestinians that’s a whole different thing from agreeing with Hamas.
Iran has officially declared the start of the attack on Israel. “The evil regime will be punished,” its leader said.
Iran, the Houthis from Yemen, Syria, Hezbollah are performing massive strikes on Israel with drones and missiles. Over 200 combat drones and missiles are in the air - media.
Iran’s defense minister: “We will also perform a strike on those who open their airspace or territory to Israel to attack Iran.”
are these the same kind of wankers who thought there was an antijew conspiracy at Microsoft because NYK in wingdings use to be skull, star of David and thumbs up?
For those who don’t know: The Hannibal directive was official policy of Israel to stop abductions of Israeli soldiers by all means necessary, including the death of the (Israeli) hostage. Often summarized as “rather dead than abducted”. The name was chosen randomly. Israel claims they no longer use this policy, but this is disputed.
That’s weird considering how much of it was documented, maybe it’s different for me because I live in this godforsaken place and news have to reach me one way or the other.
Those countries are allied with Iran though. Their recent votes and anti israel language at the UN signals the exact opposite. China and Russia are moving away from israel.
Sure but then the headline reads the other way “Biden Administration allows Israeli Government to cut Palestine off from banking, destroying their economy.”
I mean ideally Uncle Sam would put his size 14 boot on Israel’s neck and tell them to knock it the fuck off, but that’s very difficult to do when it comes to sovereign matters like how they run their banking system internally. Plus it then spins out another half dozen headlines that look terrible.
In this case I think that the Biden Administration made the correct choice, as bad as it was.
So it’s a numbers thing, then? Until they get to that six million, all those dead kids don’t matter? What if they stop at 5.9 million, are the Israelis still murderers? Help me figure this out, I’ve always been curious how the minds of sociopaths work.
I don’t support flagrantly massacring civilians, but since you stooped to his level by indulging in his numbers game, I grew curious how the numbers actually compare and would like to share, just as an objective reference for perspective.
Stick around/read bottom part for the big caveat on these numbers though, if it isn’t already obvious.
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum estimates 6 million of 9.5 million European Jews died in the Holocaust. Mass murder by poison gas appears to have commenced on/around Dec 08 '41 first at Chelmno and presumably ceased around the time Germany surrendered on May 07 '45. 1246 days of killing. 6,000,000/1246 = ~4,815 Jews killed per day on average.
I don’t recall the exact date Israel began retaliations, I believe it was around 3 weeks after, but I’m going to start the time window for Israel’s slaughter on Oct 7 '23 to keep things simple, mind the inaccuracy that comes with this. As of time of writing, on Feb 19 '24 (135 days since window start), Gaza Health Ministry has stated that at least 29,000 Palestinians have been killed since the start of the war. 29,000/135 = ~215.
So when comparing the numbers killed per day, we’re still at not even 1/20th the scale of the Holocaust. Regardless, we should hope to never even be near 1/100th the scale, but this is reality and these are the numbers.
Next I want to look at population. Mosaica counts ~5 million Palestinians combined in Gaza and West Bank. This means that, so far, roughly 0.6% of the Palestinian population has been slaughtered compared to the estimated 2 out of 3 European Jews slaughtered in the Holocaust…
NOW for the caveat: we are only 135 days in. They didn’t even have Auschwitz operational 135 days into Hitler’s reign. I’m not a historian. I can’t tell you how many Jews died 135 days into the Holocaust, and I can’t even give you a ballpark range. So if you really want a numbers to numbers comparison, I guess you’ll have to wait until after history repeats itself to crunch the numbers.
You’re missing my point that there are no 6 million Palestinians, only about 2.5 million in Gaza and 3 million in the West Bank, so you will never be able to compare it to tho Holocaust, even if they kill every single one of them, that was my point. The 6 million is the number of Jews who died in the Holocaust.
I shouldn’t be replying to this as I am just as ignorant, but the last I heard of Iran is it has bombed US camps in Iraq as retaliation to the US-British attack on Yemen. (Normal Iranian behaviour if you ask me)
timesofisrael.com
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