What in the fuck would 70 gallons of fuel do for a hospital? A few hours of power? Is that supposed to be a genuine attempt at aid? Less than $200 of fuel?
I don’t know the type of fuel or generator, but I found an arbitrary model that can output 1800W, enough for 9 ICU beds. Four liters of gasoline provide 5400Wh, which means they lasts 3 hrs.
So I estimate 300 liters of gasoline could have powered 9 ICU beds for over nine days.
Oh cool, wonder how many ICU beds they have to power. I wonder what other equipment they need.
In any case that’s a pittance. I could’ve provided more personally. A country-like entity could certainly do much better, like maybe just suppling power and not bombing their power infrastructure.
The hospital needs 9000-10000 liters a day of fuel. Do you think there is a single power generator connected to the neonatal unit? How are they going to limit the consumption? It’s not really that easy and I bet most of the electricians also left the hospital… Your napkin math is also not taking into account any power losses, etc.
Plus offering 300 liters is laughable. Seriously, your car’s fuel tank is 60+ liters, so Israel offered them 5 car tanks worth of fuel. How generous and humane of them!
Someone asked what 300 L of fuel could do for a hospital, and I estimated an answer.
Nobody said it would be sufficient to power an entire hospital. It could power a full ICU, which is usually where the patients at greatest risk are found, for 2-3 days.
It doesn’t matter how many power generators are used, the energy requirements are the same. The hospital is already using power generators, so electricians are irrelevant.
You estimated an answer based on wrong input data and no expertise in the matter. You made a guess and set yourself up as “the expert that knows how much fuel it is”. Now you continue spreading misinformation. It’s not how it works, stop trying to give your opinion about things you know nothing about.
I estimated an answer based on the available data, and never cast myself as an expert.
Like any estimate, it is associated with error. But even with error, it is better than meaningless criticism like “That can’t be right”, truthiness like “a couple of hours??”, or politically motivated reasoning like “If IDF is associated with this, then it must be completely useless”.
If you want to try to make a better estimate based on better data, be my guest.
No, you took data straight from the source - you made it the fuck up. You are spreading misinformation.
No, I won’t repeat your mistake by guesstimating how much fuel does a hospital I have never seen needs on a daily basis.
No, it is not better than what you mention, because it is simply false. And a person reading your post will come to a false conclusion. So either you have an interest in spreading bullcrap, or you do it because you believe you are right. Both of which are concerning.
If you can’t estimate what a hospital requires, then why would you assume 300L of fuel is insufficient?
The original poster concluded it was insufficient by comparing it to an automobile fuel tank. Which is ridiculous. If you actually think that’s a logical comparison, then you’re just looking for someone to confirm your biases.
People supposed to work in the dark? ICU is inside the building. You going to run extension cords down the hallway? (Lol). What about a/c hard to live when temp spikes to 120f. I could go on but it’s already clear you’re going to die on this impossible hill.
Let’s not forget ICU patients tend to need blood work, radiology exams, medications, etc… you know the little things.
Tell me you are not an engineer without telling me.
Seriously, stop spreading this nonsense, as you have no idea how to calculate fuel consumption of a diesel generator. Have you heard of a parameter called power factor? Or electrical losses? Do you know how to operate a diesel generator or how to disconnect all other power consuming devices from the diesel generator?
Another food for thought for you is that this power generator is probably huge, and is not designed to consume very little fuel, meaning the power factor is low around his originally designed power output and the further away you are from it, the lower the power factor is, the greater the losses.
You said you have worked in a hospital, but answer me a question, how many times have you touched the diesel generator there or any part of the electrical system of the hospital and do you feel confident enough to do any changes on it? And be honest!
Are you assuming there is a large, central generator operating to supply the entire hospital? If that is the case, then I agree that it would be very difficult for a small fuel supply to be used effectively.
But I’m assuming that such a generator would be destroyed or otherwise not in use. And that small fuel shipments would be delivered to portable generators at critical locations (like an ICU) in order to triage power use.
As before, if you have a better estimate that includes any factors I’ve omitted, then I would love to see it. I’m simply not satisfied by previous low-effort estimates, such as comparing 300 L to an automobile fuel tank.
The truth is that we both are currently guesstimating, but you are simplifying a lot of the unknowns I am pretty sure things aren’t that easy. Plus those generators are usually handled by trained technicians who most likely left the hospital long ago.
Plus you didn’t answer my question about your knowledge of diesel generators, how many times have you operated one? And are you feeling confident that you can operate one?
Again, I’m talking about portable gasoline generators, since I doubt the hospital has a working main generator.
You don’t need a trained technician to run a portable generator. I’m perfectly capable of operating my 2000 W unit, which is currently sitting in my garage.
Otherwise, yes of course I’m estimating. A rough estimate is better than no estimate. When a better estimate becomes available, throw out the previous one.
So then why don’t you go there, pick up the fuel in an active war zone, connect the generator and connect the incubators to it. Seriously you are considerably downplaying the complexity of this. It is all good and easy when you are comfortably sitting on your couch.
Because if the statements by the IDF are true (there is little solid evidence but it’d be in line with what we know about Hamas’ behavior), there is an obstacle in the way that isn’t the IDF, too little fuel, or a technical problem.
“How are they going to limit consumption” really? Turn off breakers, pull plugs, turn off switches, have an electrician measure, whack everyone who uses power for anything but the absolutely most life critical applications with a large stick…
I’ve worked in a hospital. During my time there we had a true blackout. Even the central power generator couldn’t turn on, because the connection was chewed through my rats. No one did a check on it like they’re supposed to every month…heads rolled for it.
Here to say, you can’t just power ICU beds in isolation. The circuits for emergency power aren’t just going to beds. They’re open sockets on the wall, any one can plug anything in there. You can’t just redo a circuit in the blink of an eye either. If their central generator died and they get a bunch of gas powered ones, they’ll need a lot of time to figure out where they need to splice the wires in order to supply power but not overwhelm the generators.
It’s safe to say they’re probably going to use their large central generator. It’s probably also safe to say they’re going to power more than the ICU beds. Even if they turned off the heating and cooling, they’re still going to use more than the figure you suggested. Some circuits aren’t optional.
I am incredibly skeptical of this story, but holy shit this is one of the funniest things I have seen on this site.
You: Fucking Israel, even if it is true, that is worthless
Someone else: Actually, if you look at the math that is actually probably really good for a single hospital
You: Well fuck Israel, I would have donated more personally and they should have done more
Again, I am incredibly skeptical of this story. But I REALLY hope it is true. Mostly because it is a sign of any form of humanity in an inhumane genocide. But partly to see your next act of mental gymnastics. Like, fuck Cirque du Soleil, this is where it is at.
Where’s the mental gymnastics? My initial point is that it’s NOTHING in terms of aid.
And the numbers given are dubious presumptions that assume modern, well kept, thousand dollar generators with modern ICU beds and no other equipment or auxiliary usage. It’s not useful or realistic.
I mean… you generally want refrigerators for a lot of medicine (and I assume blood?).
But I also assume those are already fucked from the past few weeks.
You aren’t going to be running at full capacity without providing power to the entire grid which has obvious implications with a war. But keeping the essential equipment running to keep kids and the like alive? I am not convinced they would be able to help everyone, but it would go a long way and be something that can be delivered with minimal risk of attacks en route and storage issues.
So some anonymous person on the internet did a couple of web searches and some back of the napkin simple multiplication, and suddenly for you that becomes the last word on the subject?
There is a fuckload more in a hospital that needs power in addition to an ICU bed. We don’t know what generators they’re using, the fuel consumed per hour, and how far a minimum power draw can go. We do know that the hospitals are so far over capacity that patients are everyplace, as are people seeking shelter.
I don’t know how hospital power systems are designed. maybe it’s possible that you could only power infant icus. I doubt it. either the hospital has power or it doesn’t. at least that’s what I would expect. so it’s not a matter of whether you’re just powering icu’s. also fuck israel.
Hospitals have lots of built-in safety and redundancy in their power systems, but ultimately most things draw power from an outlet just like at home.
And that means most ICU equipment could be plugged into a generator, if necessary. There are a few hospital-wide systems that might need to be replaced with portable units, like vacuum suction and oxygen lines.
Obviously that’s not ideal in terms of reliability, but it’s better than turning the life support off. In fact, it is pretty clear that hospitals in Gaza are using generators right now to power their equipment.
so… is the offered fuel “enough”? like I said: I don’t know much about electrical infrastructure. but I don’t think you need to know anything about it to believe that hospitals shouldn’t lose power for any patient, ICU babies or otherwise.
I wouldn’t count on the hospitals in Gaza having “up to code” dedicated life safety circuits with emergency backup anyway, let alone the ability to have a flexible power distribution system at all. What a shit situation, it’s so depressing.
Instead of telling Gazans to all go south, why don’t they set up some safe zones in Northern areas controlled by the IDF? They could bring in full supplies of everything, let people leave Gaza, and/or allow them to go to the west bank if they choose.
It’s a pretty good idea. But they’re probably worried about terrorists squeezing through. Egypt’s already had to halt some of the refugee routes because they caught a few terrorists sneaking through.
The IDF has indicated it does not have plans to engage in tunnel warfare, as the passages are likely to be booby-trapped. Instead, it is demolishing the tunnels as they are being found.
Ahh, i thought the ground invasion is about saving hostage…
I suspect that Times of Isreal carefully select what is shown, skewing perception. Even so, how far would we each need to be pushed before fighting back or supporting the fight back?
Israel is fighting for its life. You’re not going to see a lot of half measures. Because of its stance that Israel should not exist, if Hamas wins there will be no Israel. However, Israel has never taken the position that a Palestinian state should not exist and has tried on multiple occaisons to help create one.
Channel 12 sent one of their primetime anchors into Gaza. 3 minutes into the video he walks through a biology classroom, steps outside a door and shows the munitions depot in the room nextdoor. No need to understand Arabic or Hebrew.
These aren’t isolated incidents, although I’m sure they were chosen to be highlighted because they’re the clearest cut ones. Like the rocket launchers in the youth center.
I hate Hamas but this is just rage bait made to make you completely dehumanize the enemy, to make you OK with all the civilian Palestinian deaths in this war. It has no place in a news oriented community.
And it’s not referring to the depth of the tunnel. From the get go it’s framing the “news” as evidence of Hamas being evil. Something we need no proof of after the countless atrocities they’ve committed, so the purpose, intended or otherwise is something else.
Then:
“Combat Engineering Corps’ 614th Battalion as they carried out a second round of sweeps in a single-family home — with an outdoor swimming pool — in an upscale beachside neighborhood.”
Pointing out the swimming pool which is not necessary at all is text book to make your enemy seem amoral.
“soldiers had found a portal to where monsters were hiding.”
Cute comparison to monsters under the bed or just a convenient way to get away with calling them monsters outright? Which while it holds true is not some objective fact that needs stating and is indisputably dehumanizing.
“It’s not ethical, the way that Hamas works,”
No shit Sherlock, we’re talking about terrorists with more than 1000 civilians dead in just one attack. But here he’s talking about hiding a tunnel in a kids room. Hardly the worst of their crimes. It’s just to drum up feelings.
“With tendrils of underground fortifications running beneath crowded residential neighborhoods, the army says it has little choice but to bring the fight to the homes, hospitals, schools and clinics believed to shield the network.”
Very overt way to say “it’s OK that we bomb civilians, we need to to fight Hamas!” It’s dangerous clearing tunnels yes, and it’s very risk free to just bomb the ever living shit out of every building “believed to shield the network”.
" “We scan thoroughly, and there is intelligence, and the intelligence is very good. And there are means by which we both locate and destroy [the tunnels],” Adoniram said."
Not good enough to see the Oct 7 attack come but good enough to target hospitals huh? I don’t really buy it.
“Many had fled south or were sheltering at schools or hospitals. By the UN’s estimate, some 1.5 million of Gaza’s population of over 2 million was internally displaced.”
The same schools and hospitals they then bomb, leading to the thousands of dead civilians.
"
He had heard tell of an incident in which civilians who approached troops to ask for water had been used as cover for gunmen to open fire at the soldiers "
Stuff like that needs to be precise, I don’t necessarily doubt it but why isn’t it confirmed fact but “had heard tell”? Why is it in the news? Why didn’t they ask the source to confirm it?
I’m curious, what’s the value to Hamas of not releasing all hostages? Will that lead to even more relentless shelling since other countries know their people have been freed? Or what? I don’t know enough about this situation or war in general to understand.
Hamas will release more hostages if their demands are met which mostly includes the release of Palestinian and Hamas associated prisoners in Israel.
Israel has no interest in negotiations or the hostages, hence why Hamas has barely been releasing any because their demands haven’t been met.
Qatar, hosting some Hamas leaders and/or affiliates, has been acting as third party to negotiate the few hostage releases so far in exchange for some very small demands.
As long as Hamas still has any hostages and is talking about how Israel/Jews must be eliminated (good luck changing their minds!), nobody will look weak.
While the characterization isn’t entirely true, the generally accepted policy is to kill terrorists, not give them concessions after murdering and kidnapping people.
timesofisrael.com
Hot