That sounds like a reasonable amount to provide, since they can provide another shipment 2h later if it actually goes to the hospital. (At full power it’d be 30 minutes, but I assume critical loads only could be powered a lot longer).
The evidence provided is weak though, and it could easily be staged. We didn’t get lucky by having Hamas publicly confirm that they indeed did it, but it’d be inline with their other statements that show utter disregard for Palestinian life.
It was delivered by Jerry can, by hand from troops in the area. They coordinated the drop with the hospital and apparently Hamas. Presumably if this worked they could have arranged for a more regular supply. But that’s 2 barrels of fuel. You could run quite a bit off that.
Only brown and Muslim people and communists are capable of war crimes. westerners bring freedom and liberal democracy and civilization, those are love filled bombs, they bring with them the love of Jesus Christ , yes they might kill you now, but will save you later.
I know many people who care about Israel’s subjugation of the Palestinians. That doesn’t mean I’m going to try and brush off this complete shitshow from Hamas.
So uh, sounds like it’s not just Netanyahu holding up the deal but the entire right-wing coalition. Getting rid of Bibi won’t fix this, their government is just like this.
Please stop flagging this thread as misinformation. Whether or not you believe that the Al Jazeera journalist had any responsibility here, the article is about them denying it.
Because Al Jazeera denies it. That is a fact. If you’re saying that the Times is claiming Al Jazeera denies a rumor the Times started themselves, it does not make it any less factual that Al Jazeera denies it. And the article is about Al Jazeera denying it.
The Defense Ministry has made NIS 40 billion (almost $2.8 billion) in additional purchases from the US, it says.
American taxpayer dollars flowing through a foreign ethnic cleansing campaign into the pockets of wealthy investors. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Israel gets something like 3.8 billion dollars in military aid from the US every year. That means money to buy military stuff, with the hopes (or an agreement) that they buy it from the US. That means it’s US taxpayer money sent to Israel for them to buy military gear from American companies to do ethnic cleansing and land grabs in Palestine.
P.S. It’s annoying when people just downvote questions instead of commenting. Share info or just scroll on!
Not sure yet. Maybe a Green Party candidate or Cornel West. I’ve previously tried to vote for the lesser of two evils, but when this is what that entails, it’s not worth it.
It is not the fault of the voters that the democrats can’t put forward a candidate that makes someone who is generally likely to vote Democrat not want to throw up in their mouth. If Trump gets in again that falls squarely on the democrats and Biden for constantly doing abhorrent bullshit like this.
That is such a simplified and reductive view of the way democracy in the states works. This attitude towards your political system over the last few generations is why your country is even in this situation in the first place bud.
You sound like you don't understand first past the post. I fucking hate it but it's the system we live in and it's not going to change anytime soon. We can't even get more than a handful of partially left folks in all of Congress
This person is right. You can openly hate the way the US votes and refuse to be a part of the status quo, but this is how the system works now. If you want your current voting power to have a current impact, then you need to vote in a way that the current system works.
I’m very strongly principled myself, and greatly dislike how petty the voting ideals are. I also greatly dislike how little impact most people have in changing the way we vote. It very much feels like organized systems of corrupt power when you peek into the US system at any angle.
Therefore, if you’re strongly principled like me, I highly recommend that you observe these efforts as different principles:
We should vote in a way that gives us a voice with real impact (present day problems)
We should strive to change and shape both politics and our voting system however possible (present day and future problems)
Make your impact now and for the future. Don’t choose to be silent by not playing the game that is put in front of you. It’s dirty, it’s gross, and it’s political, but it is currently how your voice gets heard. While doing so, also be the change you want to see in the world by pushing for the ideals you are after.
If a new SCOTUS decides that marriage historically and thus always must mean a relationship between a man and a woman, yeah, I'm gonna fucking blame the voters.
He’s held positions antithetical to most of conservatism for quite a long time. Still some things bother me. His religiousity, issues of his personal finances, etc. So I’m still quite undecided. I’ve got 10 months or so to decide.
Yes, please don’t be a single-issue voter. There is no perfection in politics, so don’t pretend that this is the only thing that matters and pursue to make your vote meaningless. A lost vote from you is a vote for them.
“don’t vote for genocide” equals “don’t be a single issue voter” lmao. US is fucked, the lack of morality in the country is laid bare even to people who used to believe in the “good guys” rhetoric
Lol seriously though. My jaw literally dropped reading the comment you just replied to. I’m so glad I don’t live in the states. That attitude is an absolute embarrassment to the rest of the world.
Right, the voting system is bad. I don’t like it, either. However, if the dominating candidates are Biden and Trump, and you voted for lesser Democrat candidate, then Biden doesn’t get your vote. If Biden gets too little votes, then your next president is Trump. You wouldn’t have chosen it explicitly, but it is your implicit vote.
That being said, if Biden has some strong competition and another candidate is appearing favorable, then it makes sense to vote for them. Voting for someone you know is going to lose is just acting in principle without making any impact on the election.
Personally, I believe that Trump would deliver significantly more harm than most candidates. He’s the Republican leader.
I don’t agree with a handful of things that Biden has done. I believe that the situation with Hamas and Israel is much more nuanced than “arm Israel to the teeth.” We’re on the same page with this.
I can decide that I don’t like Biden because of his stance with Israel, and choose to vote for another candidate. Let’s say that the election is extremely close between Biden and Trump. And let’s say that there is a reasonable amount of people like me, who have decided not to vote for Biden.
If enough people do what I would be doing, and vote for a candidate that might get 5% of votes or so, then that’s 5% of the vote that could have gone to defeating Trump. However, because the election was so close, Trump wins.
If you protest the majority candidate in the election, you might as well check the box for your opponent and submit your vote. Voting is a dumb game that shouldn’t be a dumb game, but it is what it is.
Biden has literally said “I am a zionist” and is currently blocking resolutions for an immediate cease fire. He is complicit in a genocide. Do you understand what that is?
If nobody votes 3rd party, nothing changes. Ever. You got so pigeonholled into thinking “these are the only two choices :<” that you would rather vote for a genocide committing president than anyone else.
I say this as someone who’s going to vote third party - Trump and Biden are the only two choices. One of them is going to win, period. I’m voting third party because I know beyond reasonable doubt which one is going to win my state, so I have the privilege of throwing away my vote. I can’t fault someone for voting on a “lesser evil” basis in a swing state.
Maybe it won’t make an impact this election, but if people start voting for third parties regardless, the Democrats would be incentivised to do better and/or to introduce ranked-choice voting.
In any case, people need to stop waiting for elections and to start taking action now.
There certainly are ways to vote for your party that will result in your party being weaker, therefore making the opposing party stronger. Call it whatever you want.
Personally, I believe that Trump would deliver significantly more harm than most candidates. He’s the Republican leader.
I don’t agree with a handful of things that Biden has done. I believe that the situation with Hamas and Israel is much more nuanced than “arm Israel to the teeth.” We’re on the same page with this.
I can decide that I don’t like Biden because of his stance with Israel, and choose to vote for another candidate. Let’s say that the election is extremely close between Biden and Trump. And let’s say that there is a reasonable amount of people like me, who have decided not to vote for Biden.
If enough people do what I would be doing, and vote for a candidate that might get 5% of votes or so, then that’s 5% of the vote that could have gone to defeating Trump. However, because the election was so close, Trump wins.
If you protest the majority candidate in the election, you might as well check the box for your opponent and submit your vote. Voting is a dumb game that shouldn’t be a dumb game, but it is what it is.
Every fucking presidential candidate will continue the US policies that have been in place for decades. That includes Jill Stein, Cornell West, anybody. They will all continue to supply arms to Israel, because no president is going to revolutionize the entire US political system.
You don't stop genocide by hopes-and-dreams voting for an incompetent candidate who has no chance of winning, thus securing the presidency for the party that promises more genocide. That's how you make the problem far, far worse.
You wanna stop genocide? Start with your Representatives and Senators and convince them to forbid the president from taking military action without a formal declaration of war.
"Incompetent" is a stretch. No chance of winning, perhaps, but that's only true because the two major parties continue to work together to make it true. Colluding with a fledgling fascist dictator to lock out other competition and then smirking about "wasted votes" maybe be stabard operating procedure but it shouldn't be.
Trump is a monster. Biden is not a good person. Let's kick then both to the curb and agree to support someone who isn't an objectively terrible person.
You're right; incompetent is a stretch. Some of them probably are, but others are just... I don't know, out of touch with reality? And others are probably there knowing they will lose, but showing up anyway just to make their presence known for one reason or another, whether naive idealism, or cynical attention-grabbing.
I'd love to kick both Trump and Biden to the curb, truly. Well, a little farther than the curb for Trump. But the only way to do that is to change the way the system works. There is no scenario where a) it is realistically possible to elect a 3rd party candidate, and b) a 3rd party candidate, if elected, would have the ability to make any meaningful change to the system.
Remember, we're talking about changing election law here. And who is responsible for changing laws? Not the president. It's the legislature.
If we want something like a viable Green Party or Libertarian Party or whatever, we need to focus on the legislature, not the presidency. If we want to eliminate FTTP winner-take-all elections for the presidency, we need to focus on the legislature, not the presidency.
And believe me, I do want all of that. Which is why the puritanical grandstanding about protest votes by people who don't seem to understand the fundamental rules of US government is so painfully frustrating. If people were half as passionate about actual politics as they are about arguing badly about politics on lemmy, change would be possible. Instead, they are bamboozled time and time again, like clockwork, every four years by political insiders who feed them the notion that a protest vote that help the worst possible candidate is the most meaningful action they can take.
Yep. What's truly disappointing is that the voters in one of those major parties are extremely comfortable being complicit in genocide et al. It is entirely within their power to demand that their own party field someone less terrible... but they do not for reasons that only make sense if one looks at the process as one that values winning over all.
I agree that the system is broken. But the process that favors the two parties need not be used to field terrible candidates. THAT part of the process is 100% the responsibility of those who vote for those parties. If the candidates are terrible, then the blame for that rest solely on their shoulders.
Biden has a terrible history of friendship and collusion with racists, bigots, etc. Currently, he's a genocide apologist. I would LOVE it if the Democrats fielded someone I could get behind. It's not about one issue, it's about asking for a bare minimum level of humanity. "Not a bigoted genocide apologist" should not be a stretch goal.
I don't disagree with your assessment of Biden, but you're saying this like he's not the better choice of the two. Everything you accuse him of is amplified by entire magnitudes with anyone in the GOP.
And let's be real here, Israel has been a central pillar of US policy for generations. There are one or two high-ranking politicians in the entire government who don't support Israel, but they have zero chance of becoming president. Biden is being chosen not because of one belief or another, it's because of his track record and his experience. He is capable of one of the most important jobs of the office, which is working with the rest of the government, even the people who hate you, to get shit done.
The Democrats have a membership of millions. If they find someone who isn't objectively a garbage person, I guarantee they win. You'll still see the "must vote blue" crowd vote D because let's be real, they'll do as they're told every time. And you'll also get the votes of the people who believe in a better world.
Win win, but the millions of D voters will continue to sell the line that they are powerless to sway thier own party.
I don't know who's selling this line you think is being sold. I'll happily vote for a better Democrat than Biden. And I don't know of anybody who is so enamored with Biden that they'd throw a temper tantrum if he wasn't the nominee. I actually don't know what you're arguing here other than saying "a better person than Biden would be better." Which is true, but it's just a tautology.
I'm noting that expecting people to vote for the least bad candidate here is easily rectified by the Dems choosing someone less terrible. The base would vote for a pickle sandwich if it had a blue sticker on it. As such, choosing someone who appeals to swing allies is the right move.
Biden, whatever value he has, does not appear to have that appeal. So if winning is important, Democrats hold the key. Choose someone less repugnant to swing voters.
Again, that's just saying someone better than Biden would be better. I'm not sure who you're trying to convince that wouldn't agree with you.
I expect people to vote intelligently based on the outcome they want. If there's 2 outcomes and they don't want outcome A, they should vote for B. Complaining that B isn't sparkly and written in glitter doesn't change the fact that they don't want outcome A more.
If choices A and B are both bad and team B has full control of who they're fielding, rewarding them for choosing poorly perpetuates the same. If they're too blind or arrogant to see that B is losing them the contest, then that's their own fault.
What a weird take. You're not rewarding anybody. You're choosing who will be the next president. You're making a choice that will affect you and millions of other people.
I said previously I expect people to vote intelligently. You seem to be implying that allowing Trump to win just to spite the Democratic party for choosing Biden is somehow a rational choice.
You brought up blind arrogance.
Imagine being so blind that you fail to see that the outcome of a Trump victory would be devastatingly worse for yourself and for the world. That you'd be supporting an outcome that leads to more and worse genocide, despite that being a "single issue" for you. That's blind.
Imagine being so arrogant that you'd choose the path that leads to more genocide and greater global suffering, despite genocide apparently being a "single issue" for you, simply to punish a political party made up of millions of people because they didn't field the candidate you wanted them to. You said yourself: "The Democrats have a membership of millions." Yet you are the one stamping your feet and threatening that if they choose Biden, you're going to vote against him just to spite them. And help bring about more genocide, despite that apparently being important to you. That's arrogance.
You don't have to like Biden, you just have to prefer the outcome of a Biden victory over the outcome of a Trump victory. It's akin to choosing between lima beans or rusty nails for everyone's dinner. You don't have to like lima beans, but if you are so arrogant to choose the rusty nails for everybody because you don't want lima beans, you're blind to how you will hurt others and yourself.
I'm sorry man, but you need to take a big step back, read everything that you wrote, and apply it to your own position. Then think on the actual outcomes that the two paths before you lead towards.
Aah, the same old "lesser evil" arguments that put us here in the first place.
Trump is a direct result of this abjectly stupid idea that eating shit every 4 years is necessary because Daddy Blue says so. If he wins, its because the Democrats couldn't be bothered to read the room and select a candidate worthy of the presidency.
And there it is. Not voting for Biden is stamping ones feet. The sheer entitled arrogance. Jesus.
You offer me rusty nails or razor blades and tell me the razor blades are beans. No thanks.
And there it is. Not voting for Biden is stamping ones feet. The sheer entitled arrogance. Jesus.
Exactly. You are stamping your feet and exhibiting sheer entitled arrogance.
Your inability to comprehend the logical outcomes of your decisions is seriously disturbing. You've been polite enough and engaged honestly with me, and I appreciate that. But I don't think we're moving in any productive direction so let's end it here.
I'll just leave you with the same words I said before: You need to take a big step back, read everything that you wrote, and apply it to your own position. Then think on the actual outcomes that the two paths before you lead towards.
And you need to take 7 steps back and seriously considered whether you truly believe in democracy... or you value scoring points for "your" team above all else.
But don't take my word for it. Take a look at Biden's polling and tell me again how the reasonable ones are those trying to shove him down the rest of our throats.
If that's the understanding of my position that you came to after this several-days-long conversation, then I'm disappointed in your complete lack of attention to everything I've said.
I thoroughly read and thought about everything you wrote. You failed to convince me, but I at least listened to your position. It's really disappointing you didn't offer the same basic courtesy, and your last comment was the same kind of non-sequitur regurgitated rhetoric that the troll posters in this thread have been using.
Peace out, man. It's a shame we couldn't have a productive discussion.
You think voting for the GOP isn't voting for genocide? On top of handing Ukraine over and tearing out the rights of women minorities and LGBTQ. Consolidating power into the hands of Trump with the 2025 project is somehow "not voting for genocide?"
One of the golden rules in life is you should act like you want everyone to act.
If everyone voted for what they truly wanted and believed in, there would be no more political duopolies.
I know that's easy for me to say because I have proportional representation, but I don't think you should ever try to shame someone for voting with their conscience.
If everyone voted for what they truly wanted and believed in, there would be no more political duopolies.
I agree. However, this is not the reality we live in. If you vote for a candidate that gets 2% of votes, then they will lose, and the leading candidate that represents your party will not get your vote. This gives your political opponents an advantage by your choosing.
That’s the spoiler effect created by a first past the post system. You won’t get to the first result unless you change how voting works. A good way to get there is to start local instead of what most people do which is nothing until federal elections, then whine how the system isn’t giving them good candidates.
Personally, I believe that Trump would deliver significantly more harm than most candidates. He’s the Republican leader.
I don’t agree with a handful of things that Biden has done. I believe that the situation with Hamas and Israel is much more nuanced than “arm Israel to the teeth.” We’re on the same page with this.
I can decide that I don’t like Biden because of his stance with Israel, and choose to vote for another candidate. Let’s say that the election is extremely close between Biden and Trump. And let’s say that there is a reasonable amount of people like me, who have decided not to vote for Biden.
If enough people do what I would be doing, and vote for a candidate that might get 5% of votes or so, then that’s 5% of the vote that could have gone to defeating Trump. However, because the election was so close, Trump wins.
If you protest the majority candidate in the election, you might as well check the box for your opponent and submit your vote. Voting is a dumb game that shouldn’t be a dumb game, but it is what it is.
Yeah he is the lesser of two evils. I think we all know that. The idea is that some people would rather not take part in the farce known as American elections of the lesser of two evils is still going to support genocide.
The idea is that some people would rather not take part in the farce known as American elections of the lesser of two evils is still going to support genocide.
that is not supporting genocide. it’s opposing it.
this is not my standard. my standard is “do i want them to win”. you get to decide on your own standards. i hope your standards don’t allow you to vote for genocide.
I asked an important question that was not designed to be petulant in any way. I’ll be polite and not bother you if you refuse to answer it due to emotional reasons. Thank you for your conversation.
it’s not about emotions. it’s that your “important question” was in fact not asked in good faith. when i gave you a more complete answer than you wanted, you demanded simple yes-or-no answers so you could continue to brow-beat me. framing my response as emotional when, in fact, you are the one showing petulance, is just DARVO.
I have one apple. I can give it to Joe, to Dobald, or to Claudia. I choose to give it to Claudia. So now our count is Joe +0, Donald +0, Claudia +1. You see how Donald’s number didn’t go up, despite not giving the apple to Joe? That’s how it works.
Now I know what you’re going to say: that since I’m not giving the apple to Joe, that really puts him at -1 apple, but the same could be said about Donald, that I’m not giving him the apple either so he would also be at -1. If you argue that not giving the apple to Joe is the same as giving it to Donald, surely that means the opposite is true as well, that not giving the apple to Donald is the same as giving it to Joe.
So maybe instead of blaming everyone but the Democrats for putting forward a candidate who is openly supporting and facilitating an active genocide if Joe loses next year, you start asking why they deserve your apple at all.
Tell you what, since not voting once for Biden is a vote for Trump, how about I don’t vote for Trump a million times, that way it’s a million votes for Biden. Will that make you feel better?
I don’t know what’s stupider. This obvious bad faith nonsense example, or that the very-predictable outcome, seen repeatedly for longer than any human has lived, is of no concern to you whatsoever-- because you have a point to make, consequences-be-damned. Actually I do, it’s the latter.
A more compelling argument might be to just randomly bash your keyboard a few times and click reply. There’s a far greater chance of you winning the lottery than of your protest vote having a positive impact, so why don’t you go buy some tickets?
You’re incorect: what’s stupider is continually pouring your support into “the lesser of two evils,” and thinking that you’re doing anything other than showing them that it’s perfectly OK for them to be evil, since useful idiots like your good self will continue to spout this sort of party rhetoric without stopping to think for two seconds that they are in fact the problem. The reason other parties won’t succeed is because of people like you who refuse to even consider anything outside the status quo and will just blindly check the “D” column no matter how many drone strikes they launch or hospital bombers they sell the missiles to. So while some of us are trying to stop the mindless murder of innocents overseas by whatever tools we may have at hand, you sit there comfortably and tell yourself that you’re the real hero here by throwing your unwavering support behind the “lesser evil.” The parties will definitely change as long as we keep blindly supporting them no matter what their actions, who cares if thousands are being killed in Palestine. As long as no one tries to make any points about the direction our society is headed, it’s all worth it, right?
I’m not American and not the commentor, I’m observing from far away.
I agree, people should vote for the best possible candidate. Even single issue voters. The alternative is worse for this single issue. If I was American, I’d vote strategically like people on this thread are saying.
However
There are Americans that had friends, family members, and colleagues killed in this conflict, and they can’t stomach going to the polls and voting for Biden after how he’s acted throughout this conflict. I won’t hold it against those people for not voting.
I can’t even imagine what it would be like to have that happen and be told “go vote for him anyways”. As true as it might be, it’s not my place.
I’m not concerned with toppling the bipartisan system right now. I’m simply hoping to grow old in a semblance of a democracy. I appreciate your idealism but it is misplaced. The foe (the Fascists) uses your idealism against you, gaining your cooperation along the way. You think you’re opting out because ‘they’re all so equally evil’ but in reality you end up supporting them through your failure to oppose them; the worst of them.
Regarding Milei, isn’t he right-wing and fascist more or less? I’m hoping to have less of that in the world, not more. God help you if you think someone like that is an improvement.
“The vote represents a desperate attempt at something new, come what may,” said Benjamin Gedan, an Argentina specialist from the Wilson Centre. “The option [voters had] was more of the same in catastrophic economic conditions or a radical gamble on a potentially bright future with a lot of downside risk.”
Gedan believed there would be “a lot of buyer’s remorse in Argentina” if Milei pursued even a small fraction of his ideas. Those ideas include legalising the sale of human organs, dramatically slashing social spending, downplaying the crimes of Argentina’s 1976-83 dictatorship, and cutting ties with Argentina’s two most important trade partners, Brazil and China. On the campaign trail, Milei vowed to abolish Argentina’s central bank and dollarise the economy, and brandished a chainsaw intended to symbolise ferocious cuts he believes will help stabilise the economy and “exterminate” rampant inflation.
“Fascism is when less state control”, plus my point is that he is the president while being third party, not the party itself
Also, how will you grow old in a democracy by voting the same two parties that don’t seem to represent anybody? How will a democracy truly exist when they fearmonger you into voting them “or literal Nazis will kill you tomorrow”? The republicans probably do the same but switching Nazi with any other word. It’s the game they want you to play, and they use fear to do so
To say he hasn’t been better than trump is naive. Everything Biden has done that you hate will be done to a greater extent under trump. Remember this is the guy that moved the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
Just look at project 2025 to see the truly fascist intentions of trump and republicans at large. Neither are good but they aren’t close to being equally bad.
Uh, Abolishment of Roe v. Wade?! This happened as a result of Trump and the Republicans! The two parties both worship Mamon, that much is true, but there are important differences that should not be glossed over that will have an impact on the lives of everyday American citizens and all the people around the globe that are impacted by our politics which is a huge number of people. You’re painting with too broad a brush and I respectfully ask that you take a deep breath to clear some emotion and think about what I’m saying.
Trump by default. I mean, you might say Jill Stein when she emerges from her cave of irrelevance for her ten seconds of people remembering she exists, but really all you're doing is getting out of the Grand Old Cult's way.
If the Democratic party wants my vote all they have to do is put up a candidate who isn’t onboard with ethnic cleansing and genocide. If that’s too much to ask, and they lose to Republicans, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Whether by action or inaction, if your vote supports Trump getting elected, then you are a Trump supporter, a GOP supporter, and share a portion of the responsibility for the greater destruction and genocide that is brought about by that result.
So in fact, we all do get to blame you and others who support Trump.
I hate the system, and I genuinely sympathize with people who want to vote for their dream candidates.
I just wish they would open their eyes and understand how the system actually works, and how they are being duped by rich, powerful people into actively working against their own goals.
We can change the system by being active politically at the local level. But change will never come by voting in a dream candidate, because even if hypothetically someone like that won the presidency, they would simply be at the mercy of the legislature with zero support from either party. A third party president would be a lame duck before they even swore their inauguration oath.
By your logic if you voted Hillary in the primary that makes you a trump supporter because your vote delivered him a candidate he can beat. You vote shamers are really reaching for insults this time around.
Sure, that tracks. You'd have a share of responsibility for the result of that choice. But as it's much farther removed from the actual election, it would far less responsibility than someone who voted for Jill Stein, or who wrote-in Bernie Sanders, or anyone other than Hillary in the actual eleciton though.
The sad thing is you think I'm insulting you.
I'm not.
I'm trying very hard to help you understand that you've been fooled into acting against your own interests. There's no reason to take it personally or try to come up with some sort of "gotcha" to throw back at me. Especially since I actually agree with what I guess you thought was some kind of slam dunk take-down.
In fact it's extra tragic, because not only are you fooled so thoroughly, but you're also getting defensive about it rather than just listening to what I and others are saying and examining the consequences of that choice. You should be here for conversation, not for meaningless grandstanding and digging your feet deeper into a misunderstanding.
Their statement was totally relevant to this situation. You may not like it, but it was an accurate observation of what centrists expect from progressives.
Their post was a complete non sequitur. And since they deleted their post and had half their other posts in this thread removed by the mods, they clearly weren't here to have a discussion. It's a weird thing for you to defend.
It's obvious you didn't understand the conversation then, because I didn't say that at all, nor am I a centrist. So let's hold off on the accusations of batshit ignorance, yeah?
Like I said to the troll poster above: if you're interested in engaging honestly, let's do this. Otherwise...
It’s more that the third-party spoiler effect is inherent to the first past the post system, so voting your conscience (for a third party) is effectively the same as not voting, and if enough people vote their conscience, it’s effectively like voting for exactly the opposite of what you want.
Yeah, beyond that I was mostly responding to the assertion that “Americans are stupid and easily manipulated.”
No, they are responding to an imperfect system that punishes them for having strong morals. Far from stupid, it’s actually quite rational. The best thing you can do if you care about not having to choose between genocide and even more genocide is get involved in pushing ranked choice voting through ballot measures, lobbying your state legislature, or hell, start with just municipal elections if you think you can get that done.
I suppose that’s because parliamentary parties are much stricter with their membership. A small difference of opinion could lead to the expulsion of a member. US parties can’t really do that, so instead we have caucuses within the parties that vote along party lines most of the time, but differently on some important issues. In a parliamentary system, the caucus members would be expelled and would have to form their own party to have their views represented.
It’s definitely leaning that way… Still, it’s been a while since someone had their ass beaten on the floor of the House or Senate, that seems to happen in Parliament more often. :)
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