The Israeli govt is cutting off essential supplies to the entire Gaza strip, including food and drinking water, and is indiscriminately killing and bombing swathes of civilians if there is so much as a rumour of a single Hamas fighter in the area. They literally bombed a refugee camp for this reason.
Meanwhile, Hamas has less access to military gear but are no more discriminate in their targets. Israeli civilians, IDF soldiers, it's all the same to them. In a single day, they killed more than 1000 Israeli civilians, and that was just the incident that started this escalation.
Also trying to smuggle in military supplies in humanitarian aid:
Meanwhile, two senior Israeli officials told The Times of Israel that Israeli inspectors earlier this week uncovered several oxygen concentrators meant to aerate the tunnels operated by terror organizations in Gaza.
“These weren’t for use in the hospitals, but below them. That’s why they were smuggled among boxes of cookies,” one of the senior Israeli officials said, adding that the entire truck in which the oxygen concentrators were found was barred from entering Gaza.
The Israeli source was trying to claim these have no medical use but a quick Google search reveals that indeed they are mostly used for medical reasons and can be found in hospitals or at the homes of patients.
Neither official provided a photo of the oxygen concentrators in question and they did not disclose which organization was responsible for sending the truck.
In the age of camera phones, this would be so easy. Wonder why it didn’t happen.
On the other hand, I can totally believe Hamas intentionally fucking up civilian evacuation routes. Awful people all around.
@maynarkh I'm willing to believe Hamas does stuff but I do not understand how an oxygen concentrator would even be used in a tunnel. It's standard medical equipment.
No one uses them for ventilation in tunnels, mines, etc!
As for why they were being smuggled, if Israel is blocking them because it thinks they are for tunnels, then no one in Gaza has them, they need them, and can't get them. Smuggling for humanitarian reasons would make sense.
Turns out a lot of people on the left think the jihadist shit that hurts civilians is justified because their side is oppressed.
It’s disgusting and perpetuates the cycle of violence. Before the current war things were improving. Israelis were fighting hard to remove Netanyahu from power, including the military (air force) striking.
Edit: No one cares about the Israelis (Including the 20% Arab citizen pop) entering the west bank at the risk of being murdered to defend Olive picking workers from Israeli settlers and IDF clowns who disgrace their uniforms.
There are many people on both sides who see it the way you do. Funny part is, what side is good and what side is evil changes, based on who you ask. Based on individual perspective, ones terrorist is another ones freedom fighter. Please understand that ones judgement is only a personal, subjective opinion and never an objective truth and that one atrocity can never justify another atrocity.
That is an obvious and trivial truth that I of course agree with. However, murdering innocent palestinian olive farmers, to steal their land and build illegal settlements on it, also seems pretty evil, right?
I didn’t say anything about either side. All I said is cutting people’s heads off is evil. I also specifically mentioned civilians without stating a side. Great assumptions though.
For the record both sides are monsters. Whether they were driven to it in your opinion or not. And the civilians on both sides are victims.
I never said it was simple. But Hamas murdered completely innocent civilians - including babies - that they actively and intentionally targeted. They are irredeemable monsters.
True, and yet non-violent revolutions have succeded in the past. Hamas wants to raze Israel from the face of the earth. They have no place in a civilized society.
@photonic_sorcerer I would agree with you except for the fact that Israel learned from that, and outlawed peaceful protesting. Yeah, if you peacefully protest against Israel in Israel, they'll throw you in prison. They made their own problem here.
Israel has proven that all they learned from the Holocaust was how to do it better
@photonic_sorcerer oh btw, saying "Hamas wants to raze Israel from the earth", while Israel builds settlements, refusing to negotiate, commits ethnic cleansing, and brutalizes Palestinians in a myriad of other ways proves you have no idea what's going on over there
I fully agree but wonder why you don´t mention the other half of this truth. Obviously human slaughtering terrorists have no place in a civilized society. However, it must also be said that there is no place in a civilized society for right-extremist-racists, who murder residents and occupy their land to build illegal settlements.
Those stories regarding killing babies have been shown conclusively to be false, and the journalists responsible have publicly retracted the statements and apologized for the disinformation.
“Israeli forces in Kfar Aza and Be’eri[112] reported that they found bodies of victims mutilated. One IDF commander told a reporter from i24 News that 40 babies had been killed, out of what one estimate described as at least 100 civilian victims.[113][93][114][115][116][117]”
Like you said later, the world isn’t simple good and evil. If they don’t surrender, they don’t get treatment. The IDF would hardly treat a member of Hamas and Hamas would hardly treat a member of the IDF. A group treating civilians can tell members of both to fuck off.
What do you mean by admit? You mean to treat? Yes of course. As I said, imo every sick or injured person deserves medical treatment, no matter their background. Also, when they are healthy again, I would want to see that Nazi getting put in front of a court, questioned, convicted and punished as the law dictates.
Egypt doesn’t want to admit people from a group that successfully terrorized their whole nation for an extended period of time. They have no interest in convicting them.
Sorry, I have enough of being attacked from both sides constantly, just for being neutral and humanist in this conflict. I get attacked by the pro Israel crowd and simultaneously, in other discussions, I get attacked by the pro Palestine crowd (those people are outstandingly hateful and disgusting). Both sides are so polarized over the topic, I decided to not discuss it any more with neither side. This is in the first place a reaction to the disgusting and hateful people on lemmy.ml, who are unable to accept any opinion from outside of their antisemitic, pseudo-left bubble and definitely not because of you guys but it´s all getting too cumbersome for me overall, so I will dropout of the topic in general.
I’m sorry I made you feel attacked. It’s just that’s it unreasonable for a society who directly suffered from a horrible actor to forget that so soon. It was 2013 when they were in power last and 10 years is a blink of an eye in the timeline of a society. In 30-40 years I think the pain of the Brotherhood’s actions may have healed enough that they would risk allowing the brotherhood in to aid in civilian casualties.
You’re not wrong for seeing the suffering in Gaza and wanting it to stop. You’re not wrong for seeing the atrocities of Hamas and calling them out.
Never mind, it wasn’t you. I was just getting tired of arguing with 20+ people from both sides simultaneously. Seems like whenever I say something neutral and humanist, at least one of both camps is gonna attack me, which one depends on the instance.
It’s just that’s it unreasonable for a society who directly suffered from a horrible actor to forget that so soon. It was 2013 when they were in power last and 10 years is a blink of an eye in the timeline of a society. In 30-40 years I think the pain of the Brotherhood’s actions may have healed enough that they would risk allowing the brotherhood in to aid in civilian casualties.
I totally understand that grudge, It’s only human. However, I wish people were better at letting go of grudges. The whole Israel-Palestine situation would be less severe if people could.
You’re not wrong for seeing the suffering in Gaza and wanting it to stop. You’re not wrong for seeing the atrocities of Hamas and calling them out.
That is the first time someone says that to me here and I really needed to hear it!
I hope you have a great day.
Thank you for your nice reply and a great day to you too!
I don’t actually care about votes it just shows how bitter some people are, and want to bury facts that conflict with whatever their entrenched position is to steer the conversation.
Believing there is a righteous cause side here (as in in Gaza) other than the actual civilians who don’t celebrate and materially support violence against other civilians is a fools errand. Also fuck settlers in the west bank and Netanyahu im not even touching that with a ten foot pole it’s just bad.
Unfortunately the situation had deteriorated to the point that Hamas is actively hurting their own people’s chances at a peaceful life directly. It’s just a tragedy.
Edit: lmfao at the salty loser who went through the entire comment history on this account and down voted every comment. That’s all you can do, along with raging online, you aren’t in the Levant. You’re not from there. We don’t care about your opinions.
I think the best thing to hope for is the complete removal of the governmental apparatus of Hamas and a 20 year (1+ generation) re-education campaign to “de-nazify” the civilian population. Japan and Germany are now staunch US allies despite a similar level of bombing and destruction. This should be coupled with extensive infrastructure build up to improve the life of the civilians in Gaza.
The first step there is unfortunately rooting out the governmental apparatus of the region…
@LaLiLuLuCo@YoBuckStopsHere Are you delusional? Did you have any historical context for what you just said? Israel is an apartheid state, and they were that before they started the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. You can't propaganda your way out of reality
I’m from the area. Family been there for 500+ years.
If Israel is an apartheid state so is the US, Canada, and every other Arab nation that allows cross borders workers under shit conditions. It’s especially bad in the gulf states, they steal passports from immigrants and turn them into modern day slaves.
The shit in the west bank is indeed bad and a new government needs to prosecute to the fullest extent anyone participating.
I’ve lived through this conflict my entire life.
When Black September happened the Jordanian army actually Indiscriminately shelled the Palestinian refugee camps killing so so many.
Edit: It’s ok I know all the keyboard warriors from the west only want to hear from “the right Palestinians”. I have stuff my dad gave me from the 1700s Ottoman Empire before he died. His grandfather got murdered for not being down with the cause of Arab nationalism post ww1 when they started killing the local jews and dissenters, not the European zionists, the people who were local community leaders for generations.
israel is an apartheid state. so is the usa, but not for the reason you’re suggesting. the people you’re talking about can return to a sovereign nation with borders and taxes and armies. the subjugated indigenous people are relegated to open air prisons just like the palestinians are, though.
I popped off at the now removed comment under my other reply so this isn’t directed at you, but thought I would repost it so other people could see it. It is incredibly demeaning, infantilizing, and insulting how westerners and lefties from the rest of the global south twist this conflict and the historical context around it. My mother is actually an Afro-Cuban refugee with a family with many members who fled the Castro regime for reasons other than being white American business people. He would jail them by the thousand, rape, and beat them. My Pale-fucking-stinian dad married my mom because she had a child, my brother, who no one was going to care for. Meanwhile lefties defend the Castro and modern regime on the basis of it improving literacy and Healthcare. My now orphaned reply follows:
I’m from the area. Family been there for 500+ years.
If Israel is an apartheid state so is the US, Canada, and every other Arab nation that allows cross borders workers under shit conditions. It’s especially bad in the gulf states, they steal passports from immigrants and turn them into modern day slaves.
The shit in the west bank is indeed bad and a new government needs to prosecute to the fullest extent anyone participating.
I’ve lived through this conflict my entire life.
When Black September happened the Jordanian army actually Indiscriminately shelled the Palestinian refugee camps killing so so many.
It’s ok I know all the keyboard warriors from the west only want to hear from “the right Palestinians”. I have stuff my dad gave me from the 1700s Ottoman Empire before he died. His grandfather got murdered for not being down with the cause of Arab nationalism post ww1 when they started killing the local jews and dissenters, not the European zionists, the people who were local community leaders for generations.
I’m sorry you and your family went through this. But just because Arab nationalists were not good people in a lot of situation doesn’t really have much bearing on the current reality. Whether you like the Fidayieen or not doesn’t make your views on this digestible. The one honest position you can and should now is to be opposed to Israeli oppression because you understand what it’s like to live under an oppressed system.
Edit: and yeah I will continue you downvote you and disagree because despite your personal story, your opinions honestly suck and sometimes look like they are taken straight from IDF propaganda which everyone has lots trust in.
You are being downvoted because this isn’t an excuse to kill civilians either. Some military faction smugglers foods? Well fuck me sideways I’d never have guessed… Now let’s turn our eyes back towards Israel and the genocide it wants to commit.
Right now there’s videos being shared on Arabic news of Hamas gunning down their own people in the Evac corridor. The IDF is trying to clear the actual genocidal religious nut jobs out under fire. To save civilian lives.
Do I need to also remind you Hamas uses child soldiers? That half the dead kids in the 2019 protests were indoctrinated and martyring themselves?
That their fucking leaders called for my brother and sister’s blood to flow?
The IDF has been restrained and you are all blind. You don’t live there. You never will. Go read about the bombings of Germany and Japan and come back to me.
Whatever Hamas does, the way Israel responds is unacceptable. It shoots through 50 babies to get to one Hamas fighter. This isn’t self defence. This is using self defence to kill babies.
There are thousands of videos we have of Israel committing genocide in Gaza in the name of fighting Hamas. This is the pressing issue now.
Share the link to the video of Hamas shooting people down the corridor, would you? Because according to Arab media no one went through and people decided not to take that road because they don’t trust Israel because Israel keeps bombing areas it declared safe. .
We don’t have any evidence that Qassam brigades or other factions do this. What we have is tens of reports confirming Israel does it again and again and again.
Why not allow them to pass and then arrest them at the border? Surely better than bombing random buildings that may or may not have Hamas fighters inside.
Israel doesn’t operate the Egypt side and Egypt wants to not be an active participant beyond maintaining the crossing. They especially don’t want to run a PoW camp.
Working with the IDF directly to transfer prisoners to them would probably start shit in Egypt Sisi doesn’t want to start as it would be seen as entering the war I guess. Iran backed Houthi rebels in Yemen are already doing War Crimes on Egyptian hospitals for their current stance.
Also allowing a war crime (using ambulances to transport fighters and/or arms) and defending it like this emboldens them to continue doing it to the detriment of civilians since they won’t face consequences.
Doing that would prompt Hamas to stop cooperating with allowing civilians to seek medical assistance outside of Gaza.
Literally every humanitarian thing Hamas permits it does so with the intention of funneling benefits to its own fighters and members.
It’s the same problem as African warlords intercepting and sitting on medical aid intended for impoverished villagers.
A system which perfectly excluded Hamas cronies and fighters from receiving the benefits is one which Hamas will begin targeting for attack because they would rather Palestinians die than be able to get aid through means outside of Hamas’ approval and exploitation
Egypt doesn’t want to deal with that. That’s actually why what were reticent at first to help and why neighboring Arab countries won’t take refugees. Radical militants have snuck in with Palestinian refugees before and caused civil wars. They even killed the King of Jordan in what was eventually called Black September.
This explanation sounds too flimsy to believe. Seems more like a cover story after the fact for the insane bombing of hospitals and a caravan of ambulances within a clear pattern of overall genocide.
while considered a war crime those crimes only ever apply in some weird optic bullshit way like nobody gets punished for this shit at all so honestly I don’t really care that they do this. I care more it takes from civilians but still feel Israel forces these tactics.
Meanwhile Israel is using WP weapons and nobody seems to respond to that.
This conflict is war crimes galore but one of these combatants has far more resources than the other. That power imbalance should be considered
WP is allowed for artillery range finding and is the US procedure as well.
That’s what’s it’s been used for. In Lebanon most of the wounded civilians got sent home the same day because Hezbollah doesn’t do the human shield shit to the same genocidal intent.
The Rome treaty you are thinking of Israel is not a party to BTW. Same as the USA.
Link specifically to some that support your claim? You made the claim, you support it.
You mentioned it happened in this thread. Show me please? You also said it’s in lemmy in general, honestly please share some evidence or take your statement elsewhere where people will take you on face value.
It’s truly bizarre how the world holds Israel to an imposssible ethical standard, while Hamas may be the least ethical organization on the planet and people are cool with that.
If dead Palestinian Gazan babies upset you more than dead Jewish babies, Arab Druze Babies, Muslim Bedouin Babies, Ethiopian Falasha Babies, African Guest Worker babies … all of whom HAMAS executed by hand on 10-7. Reevaluate your life.
I respect peace activists who march to stop ALL deaths of children.
I think it’s just lemmy. I’ve been browsing reddit more because sadly lemmy seems to have a rather extreme pro-Palestine bias, whereas reddit has a slight pro-Israel bias.
I understand the skepticism, but this is where it’s good to know your history. Radical militants have snuck in with Palestinian refugees before in the past. This has happened before.
It’s why Egypt was so reticent to accept refugees. These radicals have snuck in and caused civil strife. They even killed the King of Jordan, in what’s called Black September. This is why neighboring Arab countries aren’t taking in refugees either.
He says the northern Strip has no right to exist, adding that anyone waving a Palestinian or Hamas flag “shouldn’t continue living on the face of the earth.”
timesofisrael.com
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