Can someone help me understand? Maybe my understanding of contracts is too simple but in this example:
I’ve developed and published a unity game. The game is complete and will receive no future updates from me, but will remain on sale for the foreseeable future.
My understanding of the current situation is that unity is somehow claiming these new terms will apply to my game. But I don’t see how that’s feasible. Shouldn’t my relationship with unity be at an end as the product was completed? Would I have to de-list my completed game to avoid charges? How is that legal?
The game is complete and will receive no future updates from me, but will remain on sale for the foreseeable future.
That’s the sticking point. A game could be complete, and receiving no material updates, but still need to be “updated”. Sometimes the app stores require a re-compile and you will be bound by the new terms.
In the worst cases, a highly played but low earning game (like Flappy Bird) requires a recompile to update the minimum API level it supports in the Google play store. There are no gameplay changes what-so-ever. If you don’t re-compile and update it, Google will de-list the game. But you also can’t submit the update unless you accept the new terms.
All this talk about development has made me want to dip my toes into it. Is there anywhere you can download free to use art and models? Is there somewhere I should start reading before just jumping in. (Trying to RTFMS before building I guess)
Honestly, just jump in and start making something, either following a tutorial and/or referencing the docs as you go. As for free assets, maybe try the creative commons website? Just make sure to adhere to the terms of any license that you use.
Is there an easy thing to start with? I was thinking of doing something solitaire or tetris related to start with, just because I assume there is tons of guides and stuff to copy for something that old and ubiquitous. While I can still heavily edit the appearance and other aspects of the game.
So is this something that all companies deal with? For example:
If Google builds an app with an embedded library that costs a license fee, and the company that offered that license decides to raise is price by 10x for future versions and they only give 3 months warning. Now my app has to go without security updates or suddenly be subject to extreme charges. But I don’t have enough time to completely rewrite my app either.
I find it hard to believe companies would leave this sort of thing up to chance. If AWS suddenly decided to 100x it’s price structure would that actually fly legally? If so, why don’t they?
Unity has had over a decade to establish itself as the main game engine. They have passed the growth phase and are now in the exploitation phase.
AWS and Azure are currently in the growth phase. They charge more for worse performance than self hosting and traditional third party hosting, but it’s close enough execs on the hype train are switching as fast as possible so as not to be left behind by their peers. Once they have destroyed traditional hosting options, they will absolutely move into the exploitation phase and pull this same move, and the ramifications will be much greater than just gaming.
Apparently not enough feelings to take their “learn unity” bundle down that’s still going for 10 days. The little money it raised so far is laughable compared to the Godot bundle.
“Your right Gary! The best way to endear our current users to us AND make more money is to take a big, heaping, smelly shit right into their mouths. While they are coping with that amazing gift we’ll just sneak off with their wallets. BAM! Money motherfucker!”
Reddit, Twitter, Google, Twitch, Meta, you name it, they’re all having to find new ways to make money now that the decade-long bullrun of low interest rates and endless VC money is over.
Looks like 2023 will be remembered as the year of big size enshittification. So many companies going to shit. Reddit with restricting API access, Twitter with…everything really, Google with its DRM and now Unity…great year so far, right?
I mean, they’ll generate some short term cash, sure, but they just lost their entire customer base. No developer of any size can take on the liability and risk of working with Unity again, even if Unity realizes how badly they screwed this up and reverts this.
The current Unity-CEO is the Ex-CEO of Electronic Arts, under him EA was named “Worst Company in America” two consecutive times in 2012 and 2013 by Consumerist Magazine and he’s on record saying that game devs that don’t focus on microtransactions are "the biggest fucking idiots".
Godot, it’s the most mature of the bunch. It’s a little different than Unity, but it’s definitely very user friendly, really powerful and has an active community.
There is, unreal besides being a product has its source available and Godot focus on the same niche most of unity games were. But the problem never was the lack of replacement, the problem is, a game with years of development on unity whould not easily switch to any alternative, they have assets from unity store, scripts made for unity, UIs using unity specific stuffs, even network protocols could be bounded with unity. Change this is an herculean task and most of the games are in barely maintenance mode, imagine a full rework. So these games should be pulled of the market and thrown in the garbage to avoid new installations.
This is true for most of software out there, but most of the game industry operates with a small margin, and when you look to games individually, most of the games that are still selling (think about GoG games) are not worth any developer time
The most valuable thing is an experienced team who thoroughly understand both the specifications and the implementation as well as the reasoning behind both. Written specifications are great as onboarding and reference material but there will always be gaps between the specifications and the code. (“The map is not the territory.”) Even with solid specifications you can’t just turn over maintenance of a codebase to a new team and expect them to immediately be productive with it.
But the problem never was the lack of replacement, the problem is, a game with years of development on unity whould not easily switch to any alternative
I read that there’s a porting tool from Unity to Godot out there. Never used it, have no idea how well it works, but that is a possible option.
Not exactly, Godot is 100% free and open source, Unreal is only partially.
Edit:
I misread, the meaning is that Godot and Unity is serving the same niche, which is true. Except for those who want true Open Source, then Godot is the clear choice.
Godot is probably the best choice for open source game engines. Its got funding and full time developers working on it.
Stride3D is probably the closest open source clone of Unity. It was developed by Silicon Studio as a commercial game engine but they eventually stopped and open sourced it. Its got a ton of modern features including vulkan and direct x 12 support. It has an active community too, but no full time staff making new features.
this means that if Unity sends you a bill, you don’t have to pay it, and if they take you to court, you prove that you’re acting within the terms of the license you agreed to, which keeps your lawyer fees to a manageable level because you already have all the documents you need: the contract and your source code.
If it affects your rights then yes. It’s not just that they’re sending a bill. For example, if it is illegal to change a TOS to suddenly charge for something that wasn’t in your jurisdiction then it’s probably affecting “your rights”.
Even then, it only says the current calendar year. They’re making the pricing change on January 1st, right? If so then you’re probably out of luck.
No, because if you download it right now, you’ll be agreeing to the current terms which no longer gives you permission to ignore new terms as they are released.
Up until now, you could continue using the old engine and never agree to newer terms, and that would be defensible in court. Now, even if you do not update and do not click agree, they will still take you to court and send you a bill, which you probably will have to pay.
Use what, Unity or the ToS? Assuming you meant the ToS under the old version you could stop using an updated ToS only if it violated your rights. (Which is such a weird thing to even mention, if a contract violated your rights then it probably already doesn’t apply.) You can stop using Unity whenever you want though because you have free will. Not trying to be sassy about that last point, just explaining why I think I misunderstood you lol.
Yeah, I thought the ToS hadn’t changed yet, but it seems like the “no upgrade” clause already got removed in April. I guess their move is to try and force anyone with more than the max revenue/installs to upgrade to a higher subscription to get the lower royalty tier… and lock them in there, because what if you stop paying the subscription? Do you fall to the free version royalty tier? Quite a dick move.
You cannot update to a modern version of unity, or install any unity version anymore technically. I think bc they outline the ability to use the license without updating versions you should be okay.
Not a game dev but I’ve had interest in using Unity for machine learning. I’m now trying out Godot since it does have quite a few ML libraries and it seems to be maintained better than Unity’s ml-agents.
Unity-ml-agents is quite a hassle to deal with but a few months ago I wasn’t able to find any altrrnatives. At least one good thing that came out of this is that I learned that there is an alternative to using Unity now.
Sure, but they also say you can use an old version if you prefer the old terms. Basically, that if they update the terms, it’ll only apply to the current/future versions.
So just stop using the current version. Just use the old version which still has the old terms. You never agreed to the new terms, and under the terms you agreed to, you can continue to use the old terms.
That poses an interesting question. If they can change the terms, and say that you agree to the changes by continuing to use their software, and they remove the clause allowing you to use the previous agreement, then can you use the previous agreement? It’s a bit of a buried shovel problem. Have you agreed to not use a previous agreement by continuing to use the software, or can you stick to the old agreement that lets you use the old agreement?
They can change the terms, but if you don’t sign the new terms then you have never accepted the new terms.
For some reason, companies think they can write anything into their terms and think it matters. It doesn’t. Most contracts aren’t worth the paper it’s written on.
“By continuing to use the software, you agree to the new terms…” which is, of course, hogwash, but wouldn’t stop them from say “Sorry, the new terms were released and you agreed, so pay up.”
Depends on how long your license is for. If you have a 1 year license and they change the terms, you are going to have to sign new terms for the next year’s license.
Fuckin hell, one of my favourite game was about to ditch flash (yea I know lol) for Unity and then that. They invested tons of money, idk what will happen
I wonder if they realize the extent to which this disincentivizes upgrades to any newer form of Unity - and the newer license - even outside the rest of the recent drama.
It would take amazing changes to even consider giving this up - and at that point, it’s a hop and a skip to a platform shift.
Google app store requires a change, old version doesn’t have the capability to make the change. App gets pulled or you upgrade and make the change… boom that’s all it takes. And appreciate from other comments it happens semi-regularly.
Lmao when you’re trying to turn your company into a bloodsucking vampire but you forgot that long ago, you told your lawyer to chain the coffin in case this very thing happened.
Facebook (a long time ago), Twitter, Reddit, Google (they even removed the don’t be evil modo), now Unity. Apple being Apple… Arduino going closed source, Raspberry Pi becoming for profit. Samsung, at least never ever even tried to look nice.
It’s a time where the kings are pulling as hard as they can on their rope until the day it breaks and their heads start flying. The people can be stepped on but only for so long.
I know Unity claim they can apply their new pricing to old versions anyway, but setting that aside, how practical is it to simply stay on Unity 2022 LTSB or earlier?
I’m not a software developer, I’m a CAD modeller. My company pays Autodesk a substantial amount of money every year for licence tokens which grants us access to new releases, but using the latest is pretty much unheard of.
For AutoCAD, 2022 is the default (2024 is current) although they don’t seem to have added much of interest since v2019. For the likes of Civil 3D and Revit there are useful updates in newer versions, but the version used is locked in at the start of a project, and upgrading mid scheme is only done in exceptional circumstances.
If Autodesk came out with some kind of scheme in their 2025 tos that said “if you model a bridge in Revit, we will charge 5 cents for every car that crosses or passes under it” then we could easily stick on 2024 for a decade, more than enough time to skill up on the alternatives.
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