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yrmp ,

Lmao my job announced layoffs a few months back. They continue to parade their corporate restructuring plan in front of us like we give a fuck if shareholders make money. My output has dropped significantly as I search for another role. Whatever code I do write now is always just copy pasted from AI (which is getting harder to use…fuck you Copilot). I give zero fucks about this place anymore. Maybe if people had some small semblance of investment in their company’s success (i.e.: not milked by shareholders and beaten to dust by shitty profit driven metrics that take away from the core business), the employees might give enough fucks to not copy paste shitty third party code.

Additionally, this is a training issue. Don’t offload the training of your people onto the universities (which then trap the students into an insurmountable debt load leading them to take jobs they otherwise wouldn’t want to take just to eat and have a roof over their heads). The modern corporate landscape has created a perfect shitstorm of disincentives for genuine effort and diligence. Then you expect us to give a shit about your company even though the days of 40 years and a pension are now gone. We’re stuck with 401k plans and social security and the luck of the draw as to whether we can retire or not. Work your whole life for what? Fuck you. I’m gonna generate that AI code and enjoy my 30s and 40s.

A workforce trapped by debt, forced to prioritize job security and paycheck size over passion or purpose. People end up in roles they don’t care about, working for companies they have no investment in, simply to keep up with loan payments and the ever increasing cost of living.

“Why is my organization falling apart!?” Fucking look up from the stupid fucking metrics that don’t actually tell you anything you dumb fucks. Make an actual human decision and fix the wealth inequality. It’s literally always wealth inequality.

AdolfSchmitler ,

“People work in roles they don’t care about, for companies they have no investment in, to pay loans they shouldn’t have.”

That sounds like a fight club quote lol. I know you didn’t say “loans they shouldn’t have” but the cost of college is just stupidly high. It doesn’t have to be free but come on.

yrmp ,

Chuck Palahniuk leaking into my writing like the carrot out of the protagonist’s ass in Guts.

WalnutLum ,

“When asked about buggy AI, a common refrain is ‘it is not my code,’ meaning they feel less accountable because they didn’t write it.”

That’s… That’s so fucking cool…

Xeroxchasechase ,

Amazing

reka ,

As stated in the article, this has less to do with using AI, more to do with sloppy code reviews and code quality enforcement. Bad code from AI is just the latest version of mindlessly pasting from Stack Overflow.

I encourage jrs to use tools such as Phind for solving problems but I also expect them to understand what they’re submitting and be ready to defend it no differently to any other PR. If they’re submitting code they don’t understand that’s incredibly unprofessional and I would come down very hard on them. They don’t do this though because we don’t hire dickheads.

MonkderVierte , (edited )

Yeah but… i asked chatgpt once how to style something in asciidoctors style.yml. It proposed me html syntax (some inline stuff can be done with html tags in asciidoctor, if output is html). After the usual apology, it suggested some wrong yaml. Third try, because formatting was wrong, it mixed them both.

I mean, sure, some niche usecase in a somewhat obscure (lots of moving parts) lightweight markup. But still, this was a lesson.

technocrit , (edited )

Bad code from AI is just the latest version of mindlessly pasting from Stack Overflow.

Humans literally can not scan all of SO to make a huge copypasta.

It takes much more time, effort, and thought to find various solutions on SO and patch them together into something that works well.

TheReturnOfPEB , (edited )

Computer write shite code and the human still gets blamed.

edit: we have become gods

TheRedSpade ,

The human turned the code in. They deserve 100% of the blame.

forrcaho ,

We used to have these shit developers and I accepted a lot of bad code back then – if it actually worked – because otherwise “code review” is full-on training, which is an entire other job from the one I was hired to do.

The client ditched that contracting firm, and the devs I work with now are worth putting in time on code review with – but damn, we got hella shit code in our codebase to deal with now. Some of it got tossed, some of it … we live with.

prex , (edited )

Sounds like the Sirius cybernetics corporation:

The fundamental design flaws are obscured by the superficial design flaws.

Treczoks ,

Good. This is digital Darwinism at its finest. Weeds out the companies who thought they could save money by relying on a digital monkey instead of actual professionals.

Etterra ,

Good. Maybe if the stuff trashes enough of our infrastructure somebody somewhere will actually figure out that it’s bad and get rid of it forever.

I know, it’ll never happen. But a man can dream.

foenkyfjutschah ,

trashes enough of our infrastructure somebody somewhere will actually figure out that it’s bad and get rid of it forever

thinking Neoliberlism.

Snapz ,

And none of the forced tech support “AI” replacements work. And the companies don’t give a shit.

echodot ,

I’ve had this argument with them a few times at work. They are definitely going to replace this all with AI. Probably within the next year and no amount of us pointing out that it won’t work and they’ll end up having to bring us back, at 3x the rate, seems to have any effect on them.

I’m probably going to have to listen to a lot of arguments about this strawberry thing tomorrow.

Anyway whatever, severance is severance.

stringere ,

I was once in a similar position: company merger and they decided to move support offshore. We got 6 months lead notice and generous severance paid out as long as we stayed to the end. Fast forward a year and they took 85% customer approval to 13%. We got hired back at 1.5x our old pay rate, so not quite the 3x you mentioned. Hoping this works out similar for you in the end.

Rob200 ,
@Rob200@lemmy.autism.place avatar

Wait. Ai doesn’t have logic built beyond untested data that’s thrown at it? Who could had told someone this would happen ahead of time? Conspiracy theorists.

https://lemmy.autism.place/pictrs/image/8f1310ed-c592-4554-adf2-ef87055e90bb.png

echodot ,

Why have you blanked out bits of the article?

LemmyRefugee ,

Made by an AI.

Tylerdurdon ,

See? AI creates jobs! Granted, it’s specialized mop up situations, but jobs!

It’ll be even more interesting in the future! Every now and then a T1000 will lose all hydraulic fluids right out it’s prosthetic anus and they’ll need someone there with a mop and bucket! Our economy lives on…

andxz ,

If by economy you mean some of us are needed to mop up hydraulic ass-juices at gunpoint I suppose you’re technically correct. At least they have to feed us, right?

…right?

simplejack ,
@simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

Me and my team take our site down the old fashioned way. Code copied from some rando on the internet.

sunzu2 ,

Copy pasting random snippets from search results and chatgpt until something works is how I do my job.

BlitzFitz ,
@BlitzFitz@lemmy.world avatar

“until something works" At least you’re doing a better job than some people.

Some leave it at will ai told me so. And they don’t know better and put that into prod!

corsicanguppy ,

Good old curl|sh

send_me_your_ink ,

Can we take a moment to ask ourselves - how the hell did piping to shell become ok? We have all kinds of method’s for deploying stuff - from the age old tarball to the new shinny flat pack. But somehow we also became ok with


<span style="color:#323232;">Curl foo | sh
</span>

Oftentimes as root.

echodot ,

Reminds me of the time that I took down the corporate website by translating the entire website into German. I’d been asked to do this but I hadn’t realized that the auto translation Plug-In actually rewrote code into German, I thought it was just going to alter the HTML with JavaScript at runtime, but nope. It actually edited the files.

It also translated the password into German which was fun because it was just random characters so I have no idea what it translated into.

NecroParagon ,

That’s fucking hilarious

curry , (edited )

Same happened with people using the Cloud To Butt extension which replaced every ‘cloud’ with ‘butt’ even for codes. Hilarity ensued.

vrighter ,

I do have that extension installed. Never been bit so far. I don’t copy and paste anymore than a couple of lines at a time.

Aceticon ,

It’s pretty much the same as AIs do - copy and past random code from Stackoverflow - but they do it automatically.

Zexks ,

Where’s the articles about humans doing the exact same shit for the last 40-50 fucking years and no one bats an eye. Looks at the prompts from people complaining about ai responses and see they don’t know how to use this shit any better than my grandparents can use a touchtone phone.

“Build an app”

Fails

“This ai is shit”.

Just like ever other piece of technology. Garbage in garbage out. If you can’t reliably describe what you want then no one is going to be able to do it. AI just blatantly points out your descriptive failures.

ContrarianTrail ,

I’ve yet to see generative AI make an error that a human couldn’t make. Maybe that’s why people seem so hateful of it; they were expecting it to be superhuman but instead it’s too much like us.

BlitzFitz ,
@BlitzFitz@lemmy.world avatar

Ai llms have learned from us. Good and bad. It doesn’t know the difference between good and bad unless you tell it.

So you have to know what’s good or bad from the get go before using it and trusting it yet.

And some blindly trust ai already… Which its far from that level of trust

echodot ,

That’s on them though. The other ones making the claim that it’s supposed to be The Culture, but I don’t think anyone at the companies is saying that it is.

werefreeatlast ,

Also it is pure junk. Chat-GPT code may come out fast on the screen but it’s garbage. I tried python and c++ both just pure garbage. Sure I got it to do what I wanted but only after a day of hair pulling repetitive madness. Simple task, open an image and invert it . Then we’ll it opened the image but didn’t invert. Or maybe it’s upside down. Can you open the image right side up and invert it…fuck fuck, why is the window full screen? Did I ask for full screen, shit heavens no! Anyway it’s a fuckin idiot just rambling code at me.

Zexks ,

Open it how using what at what size what codec where, for how long, for what purpose, using what data structures, use what libraries, what versions. You sound like my PO trying to request an update to software they have no comprehension of.

corsicanguppy ,

I use it for Ansible, so not for code, and just to reduce the time my brain is exposed to Ansible.

echodot , (edited )

If all you said to me was open an image and invert it, I would probably turn it upside down as well. What are you trying to get it to do?

dont_lemmee_down ,

Probably make the bright pixels dark and the dark pixels bright.

echodot ,

So what they should have said is to make the image negative.

That’s being a standard image editing function since the days of film but you have to use the correct terminology.

IMongoose ,

It’s called invert in Photoshop:

www.adobe.com/creativecloud/…/invert-colors.html

werefreeatlast ,

It’s just an example. I did get useful code from all this effort but usually the first prompt gets the closest. Everything else is like a bad genie story. Exactly like this: youtu.be/lM0teS7PFMo?si=yMtEaVkpSrn9q5Ap

squid_slime ,

and here’s me learning C programming language from a selfhosted AI :/

Croquette ,

It’s a great launching pad to learn how a language works, but beyond simple things, it get bad very fast.

I also use AI to look for terms in specific domains, which is really helpful as well.

JordanZ ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2c66b4ac-e14d-4e11-96de-7dc0db45777a.jpeg

Except it’s a computer writing the code that somebody probably ran once and said ‘looks good’ for their ‘happy path’ and committed it. So it’s inevitably probably full of weird edge case bugs…have fun.

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

I always claimed in job interviews to be good at debugging, but there are no certifications for debugging and there’s really no way for an interviewer to verify such a claim. So even though it is an incredibly important skill, companies just do not look for it. There is also the hilariously misguided belief that good coders do not produce bugs so there’s no need for debugging.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please , (edited )

There is also the hilariously misguided belief that good coders do not produce bugs so there’s no need for debugging.

Yeah, fuck this specifically. I’d rather have a good troubleshooter. I work in live events; I don’t care if an audio technician can run a concert and have it sounding wonderful under ideal conditions. I care if they can salvage a concert after the entire fucking rig stops working 5 minutes before the show starts. I judge techs almost solely on their ability to troubleshoot.

Anyone can run a system that is already built, but a truly good technician can identify where a problem is and work to fix it. I’ve seen too many “good” technicians freeze up and panic at the first sign of trouble, which really just tells me they’re not as good as they say. When you have a show starting in 10 minutes and you have no audio, you can’t waste time with panic.

Aceticon , (edited )

Good programmers (and I don’t mean just at the coding level) make less bugs exactly because they want to avoid bug fixing as much as possible.

They still have to do debugging - and hence have to be good at it - just less often than if they didn’t invest any time into figuring out ways of working that reduce the rate of bugs in their work (and, again, this is at more levels than just coding).

I think that misconception of “good coders do not produce bugs” in anchored in the totally wrong idea that it’s at all possible to make code without bugs - the way I see it the path to being a “good coder” must go through being good at debugging and just wanting to avoid doing it as much because how how much more time it takes to have to go all the way down to using the debugger to find bugs than doing things like at least some analysis upfront of the program requirements, using proper naming conventions to reduce the likelihood of the kind of bugs that comes from confusing variables and structuring you code so that you don’t get lost or don’t forget things (especially for code you don’t see for months and later come back to having forgotten the logic you were following with it).

I’ve done some programming without proper debuggers (embedded stuff in shitty shit microcontrollers, shader programming) and it’s a total PITA.

affiliate ,

There is also the hilariously misguided belief that good coders do not produce bugs so there’s no need for debugging.

i’m terrified of people who think this way. my experience has been that they are much less inclined to check for bugs in their code and tend to produce much buggier code

Aceticon ,

The pain in the arse which is debugging is what motivated me to, as my career progressed, improve my coding, improve my software design, improve my systems design, even improved my software development process and standards and eventually that even extended to getting those I worked with to also improving those things as I sometimes ended up having to debug their bugs.

Debugging definitelly makes better techies, IMHO, mainly because of the lengths people will go to in order the avoid having to do it.

suzune ,

AI code is not clever. It’s all developers averaged. Even if it worked properly, you’d get average quality code.

It’s rather lazy and cheap. This is where the quality is lacking.

JordanZ ,

Some of the JavaScript code I’ve seen I’d call ‘clever’ because it uses certain parts of the language that are technically in the spec or are just weird casting side effects that I hope no normal developer would actually use because it’s unreadable. I’m sure ‘somebody’ used it because the AI picked up on it but it’s not exactly something that should be replicated.

Some colleges are letting students use AI code to do their assignments. I’d expect that ‘average quality’ to get so much worse over time and I’m not sure the developers are going to be getting any better right along with it. They can continue to turn in work they probably don’t fully understand to begin with.

Ilandar ,

The point of the article isn’t that AI is outright useless as a coding tool but that it lulls programmers into a false sense of security regarding the quality and security of their code. They aren’t reviewing their work as frequently because of this new reliance on AI as a time saver, and as such are more likely to miss any mistakes that they or the AJ made.

9point6 ,

Now now, AJ may not know everything, but he’ll learn

spankmonkey ,

The point of the article isn’t that AI is outright useless as a coding tool but that it lulls programmers into a false sense of security regarding the quality and security of their code.

Lulling them into a false sense of security is half of what makes it useless. The fact that it makes shitty code is the other half.

cheddar ,
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

But the job of a software developer is not to write good code, it is to deliver features. People have been writing bad code without any AI for decades. Businesses often prioritize speed over quality, rewarding teams that deliver features quicker.

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequila.

Now Even Faster™ with no exceptions thanks to “AI”

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

It basically just turns coders into debuggers.

driving_crooner ,
@driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

Everyone is QA now.

suzune ,

Devs care to debug code only if they believe in its quality. Otherwise they write the code again from scratch. This is also cheaper than debugging.

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