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MehBlah ,

Two generations of bad cpu’s and their solution is get rid of the workers so they can keep their bonuses.

another ,

Gotta keep that angle at 45° forever and ever.

Zetta ,

MBA brain rot

wabafee ,
@wabafee@lemmy.world avatar

Two words, bean counters.

cryptix ,

I wish them brain drain for being such greedy. Let their best people leave to better pastures.

jj4211 ,

Part of the lackluster CPU problem is that Intel was pissing away their money on other adventures. CPUs were “in the bag”, so they kept spending money on other stuff to try to “create new markets”. Any casual observer knew their fundamental problem was simple: they got screwed on fabrication tech. Then they got screwed again as a lot of heavy lifting went to the ‘GPU’ half of the world and they were the only ones with zero high performance GPU product/credibility. But they instead went very different directions with their investments…

For example they did a lot to try to make Optane DIMMs happen, up to and including funding a bunch of evangelism to tell people they’ll need to rewrite their software to use entirely new methods of accessing data to make Optane DIMMs actually do any better than NAND+RAM. They had a problem where if it were treated like a disk, it was a little faster, but not really, and if it were used like RAM it was WAY slower, so they had this vision of a whole new third set of data access APIs… The instant they realized they needed the entire software industry to fundamentally change data access from how they’ve been doing it for decades for a product to work should have been the signal to kill it off, but they persisted.

See also adventures in weird PCIe interconnects no one asked for (notably they liked to show a single NVME drive being moved between servers, which costed way more than just giving each server another NVME and moving data over a traditional fabric). Embedding FPGA into CPUs when they didn’t have the thermal budget to do so and no advantages over a discrete FPGA. Just a whole bunch of random ass hardware and software projects with no connection to business results, regardless of how good or bad they were. Intel is bad for “build it, and they will come”.

Cossty ,

While i dont like intel, I hope they wont sack GPU division.

bitwaba ,

They won’t. That’s their springboard into that multi trillion dollar AI market everyone keeps talking about

Wispy2891 ,

unless some MBA decides that it’s better to sell single purpose expensive ai boards without video output

mannycalavera ,
@mannycalavera@feddit.uk avatar

In January 2022, Intel announced an initial $20 billion investment that will generate 3,000 jobs,

Not sure why Biden didn’t put any terms and conditions on giving away all this money 💰?

GBU_28 ,

These corps are slimy Fucks. It probably did create 3k jobs. Low paying, temporary jobs. These layoffs are probably other jobs

arc ,

The US and Europe has become acutely aware that too much semi-conductor manufacturing has been outsourced to China and other Asian nations and they’re trying to build some back domestically. So that’s the geopolitical reason for it.

rottingleaf ,

That’s the justification. Don’t you know what kind of people gets into high governmental positions?

Making some friends rich was the reason.

Still, this sucks huge donkey balls, a lot of very smart and very knowledgeable people, maybe more valuable than a 100 (ok, maybe 10, or maybe 5, it’s a rhetorical device) copies of me, work in such inefficient structures, while there could have been a dozen TSMCs over the world with their competencies.

I have come to agree that nations have interests, but their governmental structures generally work against those. There’s a wheel to be invented there.

uis ,

I’m not sure what this has to do “Not sure why Biden didn’t put any terms and conditions on giving away all this money 💰?”. Wait, I do. This is question exactly why Biden didn’t put condition of bringing production back.

  • Russian troll, according to some.
todd_bonzalez ,
@todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee avatar

Maybe the US should consider Intel’s massive reduction in staff and faulty chips as a national security threat and nationalize them.

Burn_The_Right ,

The U.S. should sue the shit out of them.

uis ,

It seems you are confusing US for EU

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

$20 billion investment that will generate 3,000 jobs

Lol that’s $6,666,667 per job. I could create a job with that much money: counting all my fucking money.

rottingleaf ,

Actually, yeah, one can pick 3k people and just pay them 4k$ per month indefinitely till they die and something will remain.

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

The string is that they use it for the creation of a domestic chip plant, not salaries for existing employees.

EnderMB ,

Several tech companies have really stopped giving a shit lately. Intuit laid off a ton of people and referred to them as “not meeting expectations”, and Intel’s laid-off folks are now all apparently working on non-essential stuff.

Imagine losing your job and being told second-hand after you’d been shown the door that you were shit.

Fuck these companies.

rottingleaf ,

Stagnation, baby.

jj4211 ,

I do a moderate amount of work with Intel, and I’d say the problem is not that the people are “shit”, it’s that their bureaucracy is so messed up. You have the people that actually engaged with their customers (support and sales), who marketing largely ignores, and marketing makes up stuff that isn’t in sync with the field guys, but that’s hardly a problem because the development executives then go off on their own “cool” ideas, without any buy in or anything from support, sales, or marketing. This has real impact, but then you have some middle managers spooling up side projects with like a dozen dedicated people each, adding another indirection of effort totally disconnected from any business capability.

So end result is you have an admittedly qualified team toiling away on a project that there’s just no way a potential customer will even hear about, working on problems that someone “imagined” that a customer never had, or is trivially solved in the industry already, but they don’t have the experience to know that. Even when the work is good and people might want it, it’s still doomed to obscurity because there’s such a disconnect between the engineers and any actual communication with potential customers.

namingthingsiseasy ,

Yes, I agree, and I think it’s a reflection of society’s values over the past 50 years.

We are living in a world with more of a “make money and fuck all else” mindset. Children of wealthy elites are living very privileged childhoods, and as a result, have less empathy and more contempt for real people. We are now seeing the effects of living in a society where the needle of social values is pointed 100% on the side of capitalism and 0% on the side of moral values. And how that has affected our perspectives of a society at large: a general lack of caring, a lack of empathy, a lack of conscientiousness from the top, tossing normal, real people aside like rubbish in a bin.

We’re seeing what happens when you let a generation of incredibly entitled children grow up to take the reins of society. We all know how it ends…

(And for what it’s worth, I think a long, extended Great Depression-style event is much more likely than a violent conflict, especially given how docile citizens of the west have proven themselves to be over the past several decades.)

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Lets hope they ditch the israel division

Johanno ,

Why that specifically?

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Because Intel takes American subsidies, so it would be best to keep the money circulating in America by providing jobs to Americans. Not subsidize some Apartheid in the Middle East.

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

Linkerbaan isn’t capable of any discussion that doesn’t involve Israel, and must involve it in any thread he participates in no matter how irrelevant. This is just what he does.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

I wonder how irrelevant Intel is to israel

Intel Israel is the largest private employer in the Israeli hi-tech

Also nice false framing and straight up lying about my activity on Lemmy.

Maggoty ,

Boycott Divest Sanction

It’s not necessarily the thread to bring it up but linkerbaan is on a mission.

rottingleaf ,

Let’s hope they ditch.

arc ,

How long before Nvdia buys them, or at least tries to. Nvidia tried to buy Arm but got stopped by the UK government.

roguetrick , (edited )

Nvidia wants IP. They do not want to buy foundries. It’s too volatile and dependent on government subsidies while also being well outside their core competencies. If their products don’t sell as a fabless company, they don’t see growth and lose on the manufacturing cost and stop placing orders. If their products don’t sell and their chip fabs run idle, they lose a shitton of money on not just the above but also the cost of maintaining the fabs. Not only is there no guarantee that Nvidia would be able to run the foundries better, it’s actually quite likely they’d run them worse.

Wootz ,

Arm is worth 5.3bn USD and employs just over 8000 people. Intel is worth just over 100bn USD and employs 124,000 people.

Nvidia is worth 42bn USD and employs 30,000 people.

That makes Intel over twice as valuable as Nvidia with over four times as many employees.

arc ,

Nvidia is worth 42bn USD and employs 30,000 people.

Nvidia’s has a market cap 30x of Intel’s. So it could issue more stock to raise capital for a buyout. It’s not the company equity but the market cap that it needs to have money to purchase. Even a controlling stake of > 50% would give them defacto control. Of course governments & regulators would probably block it or force Nvidia to divest bits of itself, and that’s probably the greatest protection Intel has against such a scenario.

But if Intel weakens further, it may well be someone else tries to acquire it. I bet a lot of companies would love to snaffle it up. It’s kind of ironic that Intel used to be the big dog in the semiconductor space but even AMD is bigger than it these days and are potentially many others who’d like buy it out. In fact, for all we know Intel might be shedding all these jobs to make it look more attractive to potential buyers.

jacksilver ,

The thing is that AMD and Nvidia are chip designers not chip makers. While Intel does design and print chips, the reason Intel is so critical (from US perception) is they own the foundries to make chips.

AMD decided years ago to go fabless, as for Nvidia I’m not sure they want to own the fabrication process.

jj4211 ,

Don’t understand your “worth” numbers, that’s generally market cap and those numbers don’t line up. The employee counts line up…

100B is… close enough for Intel (though they have fallen to 95B). So $730,769 per employee

ARM is $140B… So $20,000,000 an employee…

nVidia is worth 2.7T… $90,000,000 an employee…

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

So they’re only keeping marketing?

Bakkoda ,

I just sat through a “town hall” at a former GSK now Haleon site and a site director assured people that volume was coming back through nothing but the power of marketing alone. Apparently 8 dollar tubes of toothpaste are non sellers in a tight market. Who knew.

Magnetic_dud ,

they fired the guy that single handedly managed meshcommander github.com/Ylianst/MeshCommander

it was a tool to remotely control intel vpro machines, intel’s own tool is not as good as what the old ex-employee did in his free time

suction ,

That’s not surprising if you know how software products nowadays are planned and built in bigger companies.

It’s harder to do it with 50 people than with 5.

barsquid ,

The money needs to return to the government. Some wealthy fucks are lining their pockets.

buddascrayon ,

While Intel has absolutely been losing money on its chipmaking Foundry business as it invests in new factories and extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography, to the tune of $7 billion in operating losses in 2023 and another $2.8 billion this quarter, the company’s products themselves aren’t unprofitable.

So what I’m getting here is that the CEO and or the board decided to invest in something that is losing a ton of money and so now 15% or more of the people who have been working diligently to actually make the company money are going to pay for it by losing their job.

Jestzer ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/b126e7c1-13ce-40b5-b2b7-06e1f87c3607.webp

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

That’s definitely a huge issue but they’re going to have a hell of a time on the overcooked processors on the market right now. They’ve sold a hell of a lot of defective product over the past couple of years. Consumers and third parties are going to come after them for refunds. Consumer confidence is way down. They’re going to have a hell of a time trying to sell 15th gen to people. Everyone I know who knows what in the hell is going on is going to AMD.

Llewellyn ,

You have a hell of a love for that phrase!

buddascrayon ,

Consumer confidence is way down. They’re going to have a hell of a time trying to sell 15th gen to people. Everyone I know who knows what in the hell is going on is going to AMD.

I’ve been in the industry since back when AMD actually was making the processors for Intel. And people have been saying this exact thing every time there’s a fluctuation in the processor market. Yet Intel still basically owns the market anyway.

The failure in Intel isn’t their processors, it’s their management.

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

I mean you can’t blame the rocks, of course it’s the management :)

ipkpjersi ,

That’s exactly what happened, and that’s how layoffs always work.

The losses of the horrible decisions of the board/owners/management/etc are paid for by the blood of the workers. It’s so wonderful and very fair.

vithigar ,

I think it’s even more absurd than that. The CEO/board decided to make a long-term investment which wasn’t going to pay off for several years. To what should be the surprise of no one, that meant short term losses.

Framing an investment in a massive amount of new infrastructure as a loss because it didn’t immediately start operating in the black is beyond unreasonable, but that’s the demand when all that matters is quarterly gains and year-over-year growth.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

So what I’m getting here is that the CEO and or the board decided to invest in something that is losing a ton of money

Intel has an enormous technical debt that they’re finally struggling to pay back after they hit a brick wall with their 7nm Titanium chipset.

It isn’t that this is wasteful spending so much as it is big upfront costs for future productive development.

That said, the fact that this work has to be government subsidized in order to be done raises the question of why this business is private at all.

SocialMediaRefugee ,

I’m not sure I want the gov and huge amounts of my tax dollars going to operate federal gov chip fab plants. On the other hand I get your point that it is so heavily subsidized it is practically a de facto situation anyway.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure I want the gov and huge amounts of my tax dollars going to operate federal gov chip fab plants.

That is ultimately what the subsidies amount to.

On the other hand I get your point that it is so heavily subsidized it is practically a de facto situation anyway.

I think the question isn’t “Do I want my tax dollars going to X?” (because they’re going there whether you want it to or not - semiconductors are an essential industry in a modern post-industrial nation). The question is how you want the business to operate. As a for-profit venture focused on returning the maximum profit to shareholders over the smallest time frame? Or as a public utility, focused on generating a sufficient quota of useful products for a fixed unit cost?

Part of the problem with the Western/Americanized economic system is that the second kind of enterprise is increasingly difficult to find. And where it does exist (the USPS, the state university system, the federal reserve, the SEC/FAA/EPA) there’s been so much privatization and regulatory capture that these institutions appear incapable of fulfilling their mandates.

But constantly diverting responsibility for fixing the problem by saying “I don’t want my tax dollars involved in this failed thing” doesn’t get us any closer to a solution. At some point, the public (and by extension the state bureaucracy) has to engage with our corrupt and failing economic cornerstones. Otherwise, we just become beholden to the nations we import from.

“Let Saudi-ARAMCO handle it” isn’t a solution I find particularly appetizing, either.

paddirn ,

Doesn’t the US have semiconductor chip sanctions in place on China, specifically because it’s a national security concern? If semiconductors are that big of a deal that we need to sanction China over them… maybe they should be nationalized.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Doesn’t the US have semiconductor chip sanctions in place on China

Taiwanese Semiconductor is the global industry leader, and half of their output is sold to China. Korea and Japan are also major exporters. The Chinese manufacturers don’t care about losing access to Intel chips, when they’re a generation behind the curve anyway.

maybe they should be nationalized.

Wall Street would flip its lid if the US tried to nationalize Intel.

rottingleaf ,

There’s no corporate death penalty, but there is corporate death from alcoholism, coke overdose and syphilis.

I mean, you do a TRAFU and instead of firing those logically responsible for it you fire your actual troops.

This basically means they failed to find scapegoats inside the company who wouldn’t be management themselves.

Wow.

GiddyGap ,

So, buying opportunity?

RoosterBoy ,

“Here is more evidence that our system is fundamentally broken and doesn’t serve the people who make it run anymore”

You: “How can I profit from this?”

You sound like a CEO in the making.

todd_bonzalez ,
@todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee avatar

I mean, stock prices do go up after stuff like this. It’s a reliable way to profit.

The system sucks, but this is literally how rich people turn money into more money, while we complain we don’t have enough.

I may be a socialist, but I live in a capitalist dystopia, so sometimes I just exploit the system that exists instead of constantly taking the idealistic high road and getting kicked in the teeth for it.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Even Marx dabbled in the equities markets.

People seem to think having an economic philosophy is the same as having a moral philosophy. Absolutely not. If you look at a system and conclude “This is dysfunctional, it’s leaking money everywhere” that doesn’t preclude you from getting a sponge and mopping some of that money up.

fernlike3923 ,
@fernlike3923@sh.itjust.works avatar

Man I really should’ve bought some Intel instead of Nvidia.

fernlike3923 ,
@fernlike3923@sh.itjust.works avatar

Wait, their stock is 30% down today, what happened?

Maggoty ,

The entire stock market is a casino for rich people and the rest of us are just hoping we can scratch a retirement out of it?

fernlike3923 ,
@fernlike3923@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah, I guess.

Maggoty ,

Would be awesome if DARPA bought them…

uis ,

Anyone else still beliving capitalism will do R&D willingly? Even most recent and hyped(not without reason) development - powervia - came from institute from former soviet bloc.

suction ,

Non essential work, oh dear Product and Project managers, where are you gonna stand in the way of good products next?

SocialMediaRefugee ,

Executives will be “essential”, QA, sys admins, etc will be non essential.

III ,

Eliminating QA is a huge value. We all know it reduces costs relating to employing people, but that’s just the start. It eliminates the number of bugs found and reduces the amount of work that comes with it. All in all it helps projects to release on time. There could be no problem with this, clearly.

isles ,

All my KPIs are saying this is a win.

Aceticon ,

If you don’t check it, it never fails a check!

What’s there not to like?!

Alph4d0g ,

Traditional QA is horse and buggy shit anyway. Shift left and make your tests the requirements (ATDD). Testing is self service, automated and there’s zero delta between behavior intended and behavior tested. Put product owners on the hook to learn Gherkin and Bob’s your uncle.

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

I guess Intel needed that QA team, after all.

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