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mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Didn’t expect CHIPS to backfire this fast lol.

Scotty_Trees ,
@Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world avatar

Chips Act, Take 1: Hey Intel here’s 8 Billion dollars to make us more chips in the US. Intel: I gotta let 15,000 of you go, there’s just not enough money…

PanArab ,

I thought they would be more tacit about it. This is too obvious and too soon after taking taxpayers’ money. But they probably don’t care anyways. Who is going to stop them or hold them accountable?

Zetta ,

It got us a TSMC fab, soon ish maybe lol

jacksilver ,

Is this really a backfire? My read is that they’re actually focusing on their core business (plus cutting down marketing). It sounds like the right move, but maybe I’m too optimistic?

Entropywins ,

I don’t think it backfired…I truly don’t believe the Chips act is a jobs act. It is to address manufacturing gaps in semiconductors within the US. The US government wants semiconductor manufacturers to update foundries and gave them money to do so. The jobs that have been added within the industry have been icing on the cake but not the original intent imho.

Ullallulloo ,
@Ullallulloo@civilloquy.com avatar

The CHIPS plants just started being built a few months ago. This is bad for the employees and short-term investors, but long-term Intel will be fine and the plants will be a net positive to the country.

zephr_c ,

At this point I’m starting to think that if you want to subsidize semiconductor manufacturing in the US the Global Foundries might be a better investment. At least they’ve already hit rock bottom.

Allonzee , (edited )

This is an admisson of no future.

They’re throwing crew out of their boat full of holes to assure investors they’re ship shape… for the next quarterly profit report.

Their corpse will be long since picked clean of their patents, assets, and trademarks by 2030.

EnderMB ,

Several tech companies have really stopped giving a shit lately. Intuit laid off a ton of people and referred to them as “not meeting expectations”, and Intel’s laid-off folks are now all apparently working on non-essential stuff.

Imagine losing your job and being told second-hand after you’d been shown the door that you were shit.

Fuck these companies.

rottingleaf ,

Stagnation, baby.

jj4211 ,

I do a moderate amount of work with Intel, and I’d say the problem is not that the people are “shit”, it’s that their bureaucracy is so messed up. You have the people that actually engaged with their customers (support and sales), who marketing largely ignores, and marketing makes up stuff that isn’t in sync with the field guys, but that’s hardly a problem because the development executives then go off on their own “cool” ideas, without any buy in or anything from support, sales, or marketing. This has real impact, but then you have some middle managers spooling up side projects with like a dozen dedicated people each, adding another indirection of effort totally disconnected from any business capability.

So end result is you have an admittedly qualified team toiling away on a project that there’s just no way a potential customer will even hear about, working on problems that someone “imagined” that a customer never had, or is trivially solved in the industry already, but they don’t have the experience to know that. Even when the work is good and people might want it, it’s still doomed to obscurity because there’s such a disconnect between the engineers and any actual communication with potential customers.

namingthingsiseasy ,

Yes, I agree, and I think it’s a reflection of society’s values over the past 50 years.

We are living in a world with more of a “make money and fuck all else” mindset. Children of wealthy elites are living very privileged childhoods, and as a result, have less empathy and more contempt for real people. We are now seeing the effects of living in a society where the needle of social values is pointed 100% on the side of capitalism and 0% on the side of moral values. And how that has affected our perspectives of a society at large: a general lack of caring, a lack of empathy, a lack of conscientiousness from the top, tossing normal, real people aside like rubbish in a bin.

We’re seeing what happens when you let a generation of incredibly entitled children grow up to take the reins of society. We all know how it ends…

(And for what it’s worth, I think a long, extended Great Depression-style event is much more likely than a violent conflict, especially given how docile citizens of the west have proven themselves to be over the past several decades.)

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

I guess Intel needed that QA team, after all.

mannycalavera ,
@mannycalavera@feddit.uk avatar

In January 2022, Intel announced an initial $20 billion investment that will generate 3,000 jobs,

Not sure why Biden didn’t put any terms and conditions on giving away all this money 💰?

GBU_28 ,

These corps are slimy Fucks. It probably did create 3k jobs. Low paying, temporary jobs. These layoffs are probably other jobs

arc ,

The US and Europe has become acutely aware that too much semi-conductor manufacturing has been outsourced to China and other Asian nations and they’re trying to build some back domestically. So that’s the geopolitical reason for it.

rottingleaf ,

That’s the justification. Don’t you know what kind of people gets into high governmental positions?

Making some friends rich was the reason.

Still, this sucks huge donkey balls, a lot of very smart and very knowledgeable people, maybe more valuable than a 100 (ok, maybe 10, or maybe 5, it’s a rhetorical device) copies of me, work in such inefficient structures, while there could have been a dozen TSMCs over the world with their competencies.

I have come to agree that nations have interests, but their governmental structures generally work against those. There’s a wheel to be invented there.

uis ,

I’m not sure what this has to do “Not sure why Biden didn’t put any terms and conditions on giving away all this money 💰?”. Wait, I do. This is question exactly why Biden didn’t put condition of bringing production back.

  • Russian troll, according to some.
todd_bonzalez ,
@todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee avatar

Maybe the US should consider Intel’s massive reduction in staff and faulty chips as a national security threat and nationalize them.

Burn_The_Right ,

The U.S. should sue the shit out of them.

uis ,

It seems you are confusing US for EU

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

$20 billion investment that will generate 3,000 jobs

Lol that’s $6,666,667 per job. I could create a job with that much money: counting all my fucking money.

rottingleaf ,

Actually, yeah, one can pick 3k people and just pay them 4k$ per month indefinitely till they die and something will remain.

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

The string is that they use it for the creation of a domestic chip plant, not salaries for existing employees.

PanArab , (edited )

So the semiconductor jobs and manufacturing aren’t coming back to the US?

Who else saw this coming? Because I did.

I remember telling people that and they wouldn’t believe it. Time has a way of making the unknown known.

fluxion ,

Read article

PanArab , (edited )

I read it and predicted this outcome in 2022. If Intel wanted to open factories and employ people in the US it would have done so without the CHIPS Act.

No company will say no to free taxpayers’ money, so they didn’t. But they spent it on stock buybacks and now they’re laying off thousands of workers and are selling a defective product.

Now here’s an article for you to read that may be unpalatable globalsouth.co/…/michael-hudson-why-the-u-s-econo…

fluxion ,

Fair criticisms, but the statement from CEO is that the layoffs are to offset fab investments, so there isn’t any clear reason to conclude that Intel’s US chip manufacturing is dead based on this. We won’t be able to infer anything of that sort until we see what areas they actually cut.

PanArab ,

Future promises vs present actions. Only time will tell.

arc ,

How long before Nvdia buys them, or at least tries to. Nvidia tried to buy Arm but got stopped by the UK government.

roguetrick , (edited )

Nvidia wants IP. They do not want to buy foundries. It’s too volatile and dependent on government subsidies while also being well outside their core competencies. If their products don’t sell as a fabless company, they don’t see growth and lose on the manufacturing cost and stop placing orders. If their products don’t sell and their chip fabs run idle, they lose a shitton of money on not just the above but also the cost of maintaining the fabs. Not only is there no guarantee that Nvidia would be able to run the foundries better, it’s actually quite likely they’d run them worse.

Wootz ,

Arm is worth 5.3bn USD and employs just over 8000 people. Intel is worth just over 100bn USD and employs 124,000 people.

Nvidia is worth 42bn USD and employs 30,000 people.

That makes Intel over twice as valuable as Nvidia with over four times as many employees.

arc ,

Nvidia is worth 42bn USD and employs 30,000 people.

Nvidia’s has a market cap 30x of Intel’s. So it could issue more stock to raise capital for a buyout. It’s not the company equity but the market cap that it needs to have money to purchase. Even a controlling stake of > 50% would give them defacto control. Of course governments & regulators would probably block it or force Nvidia to divest bits of itself, and that’s probably the greatest protection Intel has against such a scenario.

But if Intel weakens further, it may well be someone else tries to acquire it. I bet a lot of companies would love to snaffle it up. It’s kind of ironic that Intel used to be the big dog in the semiconductor space but even AMD is bigger than it these days and are potentially many others who’d like buy it out. In fact, for all we know Intel might be shedding all these jobs to make it look more attractive to potential buyers.

jacksilver ,

The thing is that AMD and Nvidia are chip designers not chip makers. While Intel does design and print chips, the reason Intel is so critical (from US perception) is they own the foundries to make chips.

AMD decided years ago to go fabless, as for Nvidia I’m not sure they want to own the fabrication process.

jj4211 ,

Don’t understand your “worth” numbers, that’s generally market cap and those numbers don’t line up. The employee counts line up…

100B is… close enough for Intel (though they have fallen to 95B). So $730,769 per employee

ARM is $140B… So $20,000,000 an employee…

nVidia is worth 2.7T… $90,000,000 an employee…

Magnetic_dud ,

they fired the guy that single handedly managed meshcommander github.com/Ylianst/MeshCommander

it was a tool to remotely control intel vpro machines, intel’s own tool is not as good as what the old ex-employee did in his free time

suction ,

That’s not surprising if you know how software products nowadays are planned and built in bigger companies.

It’s harder to do it with 50 people than with 5.

MehBlah ,

Two generations of bad cpu’s and their solution is get rid of the workers so they can keep their bonuses.

another ,

Gotta keep that angle at 45° forever and ever.

Zetta ,

MBA brain rot

wabafee ,
@wabafee@lemmy.world avatar

Two words, bean counters.

cryptix ,

I wish them brain drain for being such greedy. Let their best people leave to better pastures.

jj4211 ,

Part of the lackluster CPU problem is that Intel was pissing away their money on other adventures. CPUs were “in the bag”, so they kept spending money on other stuff to try to “create new markets”. Any casual observer knew their fundamental problem was simple: they got screwed on fabrication tech. Then they got screwed again as a lot of heavy lifting went to the ‘GPU’ half of the world and they were the only ones with zero high performance GPU product/credibility. But they instead went very different directions with their investments…

For example they did a lot to try to make Optane DIMMs happen, up to and including funding a bunch of evangelism to tell people they’ll need to rewrite their software to use entirely new methods of accessing data to make Optane DIMMs actually do any better than NAND+RAM. They had a problem where if it were treated like a disk, it was a little faster, but not really, and if it were used like RAM it was WAY slower, so they had this vision of a whole new third set of data access APIs… The instant they realized they needed the entire software industry to fundamentally change data access from how they’ve been doing it for decades for a product to work should have been the signal to kill it off, but they persisted.

See also adventures in weird PCIe interconnects no one asked for (notably they liked to show a single NVME drive being moved between servers, which costed way more than just giving each server another NVME and moving data over a traditional fabric). Embedding FPGA into CPUs when they didn’t have the thermal budget to do so and no advantages over a discrete FPGA. Just a whole bunch of random ass hardware and software projects with no connection to business results, regardless of how good or bad they were. Intel is bad for “build it, and they will come”.

uis ,

Anyone else still beliving capitalism will do R&D willingly? Even most recent and hyped(not without reason) development - powervia - came from institute from former soviet bloc.

Cossty ,

While i dont like intel, I hope they wont sack GPU division.

bitwaba ,

They won’t. That’s their springboard into that multi trillion dollar AI market everyone keeps talking about

Wispy2891 ,

unless some MBA decides that it’s better to sell single purpose expensive ai boards without video output

rottingleaf ,

There’s no corporate death penalty, but there is corporate death from alcoholism, coke overdose and syphilis.

I mean, you do a TRAFU and instead of firing those logically responsible for it you fire your actual troops.

This basically means they failed to find scapegoats inside the company who wouldn’t be management themselves.

Wow.

Modern_medicine_isnt ,

I wonder how many of the over 1000 VPs will get canned. You read that right. I worked there at the beginning of my career. I know a lot of people who are now VPs. Only one of them was actually any good. One guy couldn’t even manage his own staff meetings when he was a first line manager. Nice guy, not dumb or anything, but not brilliant, and a terrible organizer.

Murdoc ,

Ah yes, the ol’ “promoted to the level of their incompetence”. SOP. Or SNAFU, take your pick.

4z01235 ,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

lightnegative ,

I hope this never happens to me but based on the Peter Principle I won’t know when it happens.

Oh shit maybe it’s already happened…

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

over 1000 VPs

I used to work for Comcast and it was astonishing how many vice presidents there were. It might be the most meaningless corporate title ever. Even if they had real work to do they never had time to do it - VPs there turned over faster than beignets at Cafe du Monde.

barsquid ,

The money needs to return to the government. Some wealthy fucks are lining their pockets.

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