There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

0oWow ,

Anyone care to explain why people would care that they posted to a public forum that they don’t own, with content that is now further being shared for public benefit?

The argument that it’s your content becomes false as soon as you shared it with the world.

Emotet ,

It’s not shared for public benefit, though. OpenAI, despite the Open in their name, charges for access to their models. You either pay with money or (meta)data, depending on the model.

Legally, sure. You signed away your rights to your answers when you joined the forum. Morally, though?

People are pissed that SO, that was actively encouraging Mods to use AI detection software to prevent any LLM usage in the posted questions and answers, are now selling the publicly accessible data, made by their users for free, to a closed-source for-profit entity that refuses to open itself up.

Basically the same story as with reddit.

golli ,

Agreed. As you said it’s a similar situation as with reddit, where I decided to delete my comments.

My reasoning is that those contributions were given under the premise that everybody was sharing to help each other.

Now that premise has changed: the large tech companies are only taking and the platform providers are changing the rules aswell to profit from it.

So as a result I packed my things and left, in case of reddit to here.

That said I think both views are valid and I wouldn’t fault those that think differently.

TheOneCurly ,

I can only really speak to reddit, but I think this applies to all of the user generated content websites. The original premise, that everyone agreed to, was the site provides a space and some tools and users provide content to fill it. As information gets added, it becomes a valuable resource for everyone. Ads and other revenue streams become a necessary evil in all this, but overall directly support the core use case.

Now that content is being packaged into large language models to be either put behind a paywall or packed into other non-freely available services. Since they no longer seem interested in supporting the model we all agreed on, I see no reason to continue adding value and since they provided tools to remove content I may as well use them.

0oWow ,

But from the very beginning years ago, it was understood that when you post on these types of sites, the data is not yours, or at least you give them license to use it how they see fit. So for years people accepted that, but are now whining because they aren’t getting paid for something they gave away.

TheOneCurly ,

This is legal vs rude. It certainly is legal and was in the terms of service for them to use the data in any way they see fit. But, also it’s rude to bait and switch from being a message board to being an AI data source company. Users we led to believe they were entering into an agreement with one type of company and are now in an agreement with a totally different one.

You can smugly tell people they shouldn’t have made that decision 15 years ago when they started, but a little empathy is also cool.

Additionally: When you owe your entire existence and value to user goodwill it might not be a great idea to be rude to them.

LainTrain ,

Lol it ain’t for public benefit unless it’s a FOSS model with which I’d have no issue

possiblylinux127 ,

Well no, when you post something it is public and out of your control

LainTrain ,

No, you can’t post something in public and have it appropriated by a mega corp for money and then prevent you from deleting or modifying the very things you posted.

I’m pro-AI btw. But AI for all.

possiblylinux127 ,

You agreed to it

gencha ,

It is your content. But SE specifically only accepts CC licensed content, which makes you right.

tearsintherain ,
@tearsintherain@leminal.space avatar

Reddit/Stack/AI are the latest examples of an economic system where a few people monetize and get wealthy using the output of the very many.

TheLongPrice ,

Technofeudalism

Mango ,

It’s very precisely that.

Bell ,

Mmm this golden goose tastes delicious!

million ,
@million@lemmy.world avatar

blog.codinghorror.com/are-you-a-digital-sharecrop…

Interesting article from on of the co-founders of StackOverflow.

egeres ,
@egeres@lemmy.world avatar

You’re forgetting a silly and funny company whose name starts with “G”

Holzkohlen ,

RIP in pieces Stack Overflow

T00l_shed ,

The enshitification will continue while moral tanks.

werefreeatlast ,

The enshitification will continue for a while, moral thanks!

rimjob_rainer ,

While I think the reaction of StackOverflow is not good, I don’t understand the users either.

EDIT: seems like the language model won’t be free, I understand then.

assassin_aragorn ,

OpenAI is a terribly misleading name.

frostysauce ,

OpenUpYourWalletforAI

JohnEdwa ,

That is how it started. It was a non-profit with the goal to release all their patents and research for free.

That lasted for a few years, and then the people running it realized they could instead all become filthy rich and nobody could do anything about it. So they did that.

But don’t worry, they are a capped for-profit now! They can only make 100 time the amount of money as they have investments. So they’ll stop when they have reached … checks notes… Around $1.3 trillion.

SeattleRain ,

Were they trying to protect ChatGPT from all the bad and convoluted answers?

archomrade ,

Data should be socialized and machine learning algorithms should be nationalized for public use.

explodicle ,

Better yet, copyright should be abolished completely.

spez_ ,

Public+ no copyright

assassin_aragorn ,

It should stay for creative works but that’s it. It should protect people who actually write books, compose music, make art, and sing. It shouldn’t be held by corporations forever by leeching off their workers.

laurelraven , (edited )

Creative works of individuals specially… Corporations should explicitly be deemed not people and not possessing of the same rights as people and the fact that needs to be said just goes to show how far down the shit hole we’ve fallen

Olhonestjim ,

Corporations should be outlawed from owning houses and land as well. Maybe they can own the building, but they must be forced to rent the land from Us.

WldFyre ,

Wouldn’t that make AI training data easier to obtain?

explodicle ,

No, you can already legally download copyrighted data and use it for training.

WldFyre ,

That’s what I thought, that’s why I was confused about your reply haha

My bad!

afraid_of_zombies ,

I think you just invented the public library

possiblylinux127 ,

I don’t think a lot of people are crying

CthulhuDreamer ,

I am not deleting anything. They can have all of my poorly written misleading answers.

dubyakay ,

I’ll just keep asking copilot about the damn exceptions until the effin code works. Na-na-nah!

floofloof ,

If we can’t delete our questions and answers, can we poison the well by uploading masses of shitty questions and answers? If they like AI we could have it help us generate them.

pivot_root ,

Poison the well by using AI-generated comments and answers. There isn’t currently a way to reliably determine if content is human or AI-generated, and training AI on AI is the equivalent of inbreeding.

T00l_shed ,

Sounds good then.

100_kg_90_de_belin ,

Stackalabama Exchange

trolololol ,

The poison was there all along the way. The poison is us

Inserts spider man meme

VirtualOdour ,

You are literally the same mentality as the coal rollers

Tech that could improve life for everyone and instead of using it to make open source software or coding solutions to problems you attack it like a crab in a bucket simply because you fear change.

chemicalwonka ,
@chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Reddit did almost the same and don’t forget guys to delete your Reddit account

frostysauce ,

It won’t matter, they would have all of your comments archived already. Even if you overwrite them AI will be scraping the copies they keep.

Fedizen ,

it creates a lot of poisoned data especially if you like edit half your posts with nonsense

realharo ,

That’s trivial to filter if you just look at how much time has passed between posting and editing.

Fedizen ,

sure, but the more you fuck with the data, the more it requires curating, the less valuable it becomes. I’m not entirely sure places like reddit even retain full edit history for posts over a year old.

afraid_of_zombies ,

I am alright, nothing interesting on there.

Allero ,

Still some narrow scope communities holding some people back (but it changes slowly).

Also, variety of porn is still better there (but lemmynsfw.com for the win)

TheGrandNagus ,

I got banned anyway lol. Reddit made it easy.

SuperSpruce ,

Weren’t all the answers already trained on ChatGPT last year?

catalog3115 ,

Can we change our answers? Change your answers to garbage, don’t delete them. Do it slowly.

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

In the article the dude was banned for 7 days for changing his answer.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

So wait a few days, then do it slowly.

spikederailed ,

I’m almost sure the site has already been scrapped of current contest for the LLM.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yup, but that’s not the point IMO, it’s to remove quality content from the site so visitors see how crappy it is and stop using it.

olympicyes ,

Great idea. Then I’ll turn to ChatGPT for higher quality answers.

abhibeckert , (edited )

If you have low karma, then edits are reviewed by multiple people before the edit is saved. That’s primarily in place to prevent spam, who could otherwise post a valid question then edit it a few months later transforming the message into a link to some shitty website.

Even with high karma, that just means your edit is temporarily trusted. It’s gets reviewed and will be reverted if it’s a bad edit.

And any time an edit is reverted, that’s a knock against your karma. There’s a community enforced requirement for all edits to be a measurable improvement.

Even moderation decisions are reviewed by multiple people - so if someone rejects a post because it’s spam, when they should have rejected it because it’s off topic (or approved it) then that is also going to be caught and undone. And any harmful contribution (edit or moderation decision) will result in your action being undone and your karma going down. If your karma goes down too fast, your access to the site is revoked. If you do something really bad, then they’ll ban your IP address.

Moderators can also lock a controversial post, so only people with high karma can touch it at all.

… keep in mind Stack Overflow doesn’t just allow editing your own posts, you can edit any content on the website, similar to wikipedia.

It’s honestly a good overall approach, but around when Jeff Attwood left in 2008 it started drifting off course towards the shit show that is stack overflow today.

catalog3115 ,

It’s a shame, only corporate are going to be benefiting from hard work & labour of so many talented people.

olympicyes ,

If the Stack Overflow site remains available then it still serves the same purpose it did before. I personally use ad blockers and don’t pay to use the site, which must not be cheap to operate. The bigger problem is if talented people refuse to share their expertise with people like me because they aren’t being compensated for their efforts.

avidamoeba , (edited )
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

Time to download the last dump: archive.org/details/stackexchange

E: Seeding.

Fedizen ,

primary use for AI is self destructing your website.

praise_idleness ,

Pleasing tech illiterate sharholders

PhlubbaDubba ,

Remember when adding the word blockchain to an Iced Tea company’s name caused share prices to jump?

kureta ,

is this real? I can’t tell anymore.

Syrc ,

I googled it and I wish it wasn’t

pete_the_cat ,

a little-known micro-cap stock called Long Island Iced Tea Corp. (LTEA) said Thursday that it’s now “Long Blockchain Corp.,” and its stock leaped more than 200 percent at the open of trading. Shares closed up 183 percent.

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

This is like my friend who “invested” in Doggy (not Doge) coin “because it was going to explode and become highly valuable” even though it was only worth like .1% of what Doge was worth like two years back… He’s a teacher.

Or my other friend that invested thousands in Etherium like 2 years back, while knowing basically nothing about “The Etherium Network”, or anything crypto related. He just knew that he could potentially make money off of it like he could with stocks. I asked him like a year later if he ever made anything off of it and he said “not really”, and said he had reinvested the money into other things (I forget which, it wasn’t crypto related) 🤣

dependencyinjection ,

I dunno. AlphaFold 3 is pretty big.

schnurrito ,

Messages that people post on Stack Exchange sites are literally licensed CC-BY-SA, the whole point of which is to enable them to be shared and used by anyone for any purpose. One of the purposes of such a license is to make sure knowledge is preserved by allowing everyone to make and share copies.

9point6 ,

Share Alike

I can’t wait to download my own version of the latest gpt model

bbuez ,

It does help to know what those funny letters mean. Now we wait for regulators to catch up…

/tangent

If anything, we’re a very long way from anything close to intelligent, OpenAI (and subsequently MS, being publicly traded) sold investors on the pretense that LLMs are close to being “AGI” and now more and more data is necessary to achieving that.

If you know the internet, you know there’s a lot of garbage. I for one can’t wait for garbage-in garbage-out to start taking its toll.

Also I’m surprised how well open source models have shaped up, its certainly worth a look. I occasionally use a local model for “brainstorming” in the loosest terms, as I generally know what I’m expecting, but it’s sometimes helpful to read tasks laid out. Also comfort in that nothing even need leave my network, and even in a pinch I got some answers when my network was offline.

It gives a little hope while corps get to blatantly violate copyright while having wielding it so heavily, that advancements have been so great in open source.

kerrigan778 ,

That license would require chatgpt to provide attribution every time it used training data of anyone there and also would require every output using that training data to be placed under the same license. This would actually legally prevent anything chatgpt created even in part using this training data from being closed source. Assuming they obviously aren’t planning on doing that this is massively shitting on the concept of licensing.

JohnEdwa ,

CC attribution doesn’t require you to necessarily have the credits immediately with the content, but it would result in one of the world’s longest web pages as it would need to have the name of the poster and a link to every single comment they used as training data, and stack overflow has roughly 60 million questions and answers combined.

Scrollone ,

They don’t need to republish the 60 million questions, they just have to credit the authors, which are surely way fewer (but IANAL)

JohnEdwa ,

appropriate credit — If supplied, you must provide the name of the creator and attribution parties, a copyright notice, a license notice, a disclaimer notice, and a link to the material. CC licenses prior to Version 4.0 also require you to provide the title of the material if supplied, and may have other slight differences.

Maybe that could be just a link to the user page, but otherwise I would see it as needing to link to each message or comment they used.

theherk ,

Maybe but I don’t think that is well tested legally yet. For instance, I’ve learned things from there, but when I share some knowledge I don’t attribute it to all the underlying sources of my knowledge. If, on the other hand, I shared a quote or copypasta from there I’d be compelled to do so I suppose.

I’m just not sure how neural networks will be treated in this regard. I assume they’ll conveniently claim that they can’t tie answers directly to underpinning training data.

fruitycoder ,

IF its outputs are considered derivative works.

kerrigan778 ,

Ethically and logically it seems like output based on training data is clearly derivative work. Legally I suspect AI will continue to be the new powerful tool that enables corporations to shit on and exploit the works of countless people.

fruitycoder ,

The problem is the legal system and thus IP law enforcement is very biased towards very large corporations. Until that changes corporations will continue, as they already were, exploiting.

I don’t see AI making it worse.

General_Effort ,

They are not. A derivative would be a translation, or theater play, nowadays, a game, or movie. Even stuff set in the same universe.

Expanding the meaning of “derivative” so massively would mean that pretty much any piece of code ever written is a derivative of technical documentation and even textbooks.

So far, judges simply throw out these theories, without even debating them in court. Society would have to move a lot further to the right, still, before these ideas become realistic.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •