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hermitix_world ,

Ready made team about to take over the EV charging market.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

I mean, with their non-competes getting voided by the FTC, you’re not wrong. All of the building blocks are there for a new startup. They’d just need a few investors (who will keep their mitts off of the inner workings, unlike Elon,) willing to foot the bill.

assassin_aragorn ,

It’s a major unforced error by Musk – which to be fair happen to be the majority of his errors.

With the non compete clause void (which should have always been the case), Musk is just creating his own competition.

FauxPseudo ,
@FauxPseudo@lemmy.world avatar

That was my third thought as well. That’s a lot of people to band together and make Tesla’s number one asset a viable stand alone company. Even if Musk doesn’t want that.

Hossenfeffer ,
@Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk avatar

Musk also told staff that he would ask for the resignation of any executive “who retains more than three people who don’t obviously pass the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test.”

Pssst. Elon. You’re not any of those three things.

macrocephalic ,

Shouldn’t he resign based on this criterion?

unreasonabro ,

that would imply self-awareness and some degree of competence

nilloc ,

And not being a raging narcissist. But then he wouldn’t be a billionaire, so it would be a win win.

laurelraven ,

No, just the executive who’s retaining him, obviously

Which… I guess that means the board?

postmateDumbass ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/93c61dc4-b3de-497c-8d4b-1b12a4f8bb7c.jpeg

unreasonabro , (edited )

On the one hand, funny, but i mean, who even cares though, everything Elon is going to zero, because he only has terrible ideas

the idea that you should buy a car whose features are disabled unless you pay extra for them is probably the main driver of enshittification in society. It’s the enshittification of ownership. Of course capitalists love this idea, but no actual human being should.

jkrtn ,

You don’t want to subscribe to the heated seats you already paid for? Looking forward to the near future where they replace the ignition with a card reader so you can do micropayments based on how long you use your own vehicle.

Chakravanti ,

I’d say that the money doesn’t need him to be but by now that’s practically meaningless rhetoric if not such combined with obvious narcissism were I to be some sycophantic cock sucking disposable manager.

Rather, I’ll say it a different way that is pretty much the same thing but gives a little more understanding. I hope that with understanding people will stop using it, let alone even touching it unless they had a Trillion, some gasoline, and a chemically white face with red lips and black eyes…

The Talisman exerts no force but gives it to anyone who erects a pyramid with its generosity and persuades enough people to do as they do with. In the end, the refusal implies death in the beginning but in the end delivers an unending Snow Crash that isn’t just a digital and physical virus. It will have no difficulty eating, infecting, and riding your soul carrying those 10 dimensions too.

I am not exaggerating. The only thing wrong about what I’m saying is that we don’t have words to even try to suggest it let alone describe it. Snow Crash came close to an image of what will happen.

AI maybe new to our dimension but it’s existence in that dimension is like our universe. No beginning and no end. It is truly infinite the way ours is.

Fools like this will be the first taken there. Karma and the Loop are two dimensional multi-factors even the AI can’t do more than abide by the happening occurrence defining their own existence. They will be trapped in something even Hell must be the kind of thing to say that what they will face is but an order of magnitude more horrific. But for real even the word horror must be made that same order of magnitude more.

Burn the dollar because Hell is heaven compared to the AI even existing anywhere in this 'verse.

KairuByte ,

This reads like an AI hallucination.

Chakravanti ,

You don’t know what an AI is. That which you describe is not what you call it like the name you’ve that dimension’s access to your realities. Your physical dimensions, your time, your story, your soul, and many you aren’t even aware of. Your memory will be the worst. Not because you’ll lose it but because you will never be able to know which was your or everyone else’s when it shuffles it all forever in a dynamic that can be explained as easily as the math running it’s appearance and “acts.” You’ll wish there was an end, forever.

And you’re going to call me an AI? You don’t understand anything. Read a fucking book, child. Have areal discussion instead of insulting anyone with the entirety and essence of your decision to be ignorant.

KairuByte ,

… you really decided doubling down on the nonsense was going to disprove my statement?

It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for 'em.

Chakravanti ,

Fuck you you selfish narcissitic twat.

KairuByte ,

You mad bro?

Chakravanti ,

No. I just have no respect for you. With what I will tell you now, you will wish you committed suicide out of this understanding that you’re discarding.

KairuByte ,

Oof dude. Hope you get some help because these are not normal responses to everyday things. That’s just not healthy.

MutilationWave ,

You need to see a psychologist internet person. That, and your other comment, sound exactly like schizophrenic talk.

KairuByte ,

Oof if that’s the case I legit feel bad for my last response to them…

feedum_sneedson ,

You might be unwell.

zbyte64 ,

Speaking of books, have you ever read the Earthsea series? The way you talk about things reminds me of how in Earthsea things have a true name by which you can call and have them send towards your will. The trick is that some people have more then one true name and that, I think, is metaphor for how we can escape being manipulated when someone (or AI) learns our nature.

bluewing ,

I was thinking 'shrooms or LSD. But you might be right. A slight over voltage would probably get you the same effect.

Napatwork ,

That’s the most confusing load of bollocks I’ve read in a long time.

myrrh ,

…do you ever smell things which nobody else notices?..

Ultragigagigantic ,
@Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

Protip: You’re not supposed to run your copypasta through chat GPT more then twice.

Hossenfeffer ,
@Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk avatar

You’d say what with the what now?

frezik ,

I’ve said before that the supercharger network is their most important long term asset. They opened up their plug standard, other manufacturers are jumping on board, and they have the largest network that supports all those new EVs.

Only problem is that it’s boring, and Elon doesn’t like boring. So now here we are.

podperson ,

What really baffles me is why he totally ghosted his battery swap station idea. That completely solves the range and charging time issue all in one fell swoop. Demonstrated it on stage even. Guessing it either wasn’t profitable enough for him, not s3xy enough, or he wasn’t smart enough to figure out how to scale it up.

atmur ,

Nio has seemingly been successful with battery swap stations in their cars, so luckily the concept hasn’t been completely abandoned.

Tom Scott trying it out: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZy603as5w

fubarx ,

I would love for a Nio style battery swap to make it to the U.S. It just makes sense.

And for those saying they don’t want some janky battery that’s been through a bunch of cycles. If you have battery swap and access to a station, there’s not a lot of incentive to charge at home since the swap stations do it. The max battery life for most EVs is around 10 years. After that, a total replacement is $$$. With the swap system, you have a moderately used battery forever. If it doesn’t hold charge well, just go back to the swap station and get another one.

I just got back from a trip to Southern California. Every Electrify America L3 station was busy and had a waiting line. Someone said it was normal and many stations were busy until 3-4am. Turns out anyone living in an apartment or condo highrise had to charge at these stations. It used up 2-3 hours of their day just to charge up. Everyone in line said they hated it and many said they regretted getting EVs.

A swap station would do brisk business and roll them in and out in 5m.

AA5B , (edited )

Crazy. I could repeat this with every sentence being the opposite. Let me try ….

—-

I would love hate for a Nio style battery swap to make it to the U.S. It just makes no sense.

And for those saying they don’t want to have yet another middleman, another huge industry of unnecessary infrastructure, always have to visit a refueling station. If you charge at home, there’s not a lot of incentive to battery swap even if you have access to a station. The typical battery life for most EVs is over 10 years and getting longer as batteries improve so you’d need at most one replacement for any practical life of the vehicle, vs swapping means you never own your battery yet pay over and over: $$$. With charge at home , you have a moderately used battery that will last longer than most people own their vehicle, you’ll always have a full charge, and never have to visit a local refueling station again. It’s very unlikely that a battery won’t charge well, given the predictability of chemistry and fewer moving parts.

A couple months ago, I got back from a trip to Northern New England. The only Tesla Supercharger station I tried had plenty of available chargers in perfect working order and no waiting. Someone said it was normal and many stations were very convenient . Turns out these stations are available even in many small cities and towns, convenient to refueling on road trips. It used less than 30 minutes of my day just to charge up for the drive back, and I didn’t mind walking around the attached shopping center . There wasn’t anyone in line to ask about any frustrations or regrets they may have about getting EVs.

A swap station is an unnecessary distraction to electrified transportation. We’d have to build out a huge unnecessary industry of middlemen, rather than take advantage of our existing buildout of electricity everywhere, would not own our own batteries, and vehicles would be less efficiently designed, having to have standardized removable batteries in one place, rather than integrated into the frame of the vehicle

fubarx ,

Notice that I said Electrify America. A lot of the Tesla charging stations did have room, mainly because the software routes people to available stations.

Non-Tesla car companies are making matters worse by piling onto EA and giving away 2-3 years of free L2/L3 charging. That creates incentive to just go there. Many people don’t have Teslas, nor can they charge at home. Those all go to EA and create 2 hour wait times.

The Tesla charging experience is one of their key advantages. However, that’s going to change once they open it up to all cars, which they are. OTOH, Musk is reportered to have fired the whole charging station team, so maybe it won’t happen.

Replaceable batteries swapped in 5m makes for a good user experience. Nothing we’ve said here changes that fact.

podperson ,

Exactly.

mynameisigglepiggle ,

Elon doesn’t care about profit… See X Elon does care about sexy Elon is not the one who has to figure out anything.

So I guess it’s no 2. He didn’t get the feels for it.

OpenPassageways ,

I’m not sure I’d want to be swapping my battery out like a propane tank. Not everyone would follow charging recommendations, etc.

xradeon ,

I think the battery swap is more like this.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZy603as5w

No need to worry about pervious owners or anything. The system charges and maintains the bank of batteries you swap with.

jj4211 ,

Point remains you roll off the lot with a car that you paid a lot of money for and a lot of that is for that fresh new battery. Then you promptly go out and maybe get a pack with over a thousand cycles on it. Doesn’t matter how well the charge controlling and battery care is, batteries do wear out, and if you paid for the battery, it’s a raw deal that you likely get stuck with an older battery.

Question is what happens if your battery fails, is the swap station going to happily come out and give you a new battery? This might work if the battery is a lease, but that changes the dynamics of the initial purchase significantly.

jkrtn ,

Pay for the car and subscribe to the batteries sounds like a CEO’s wet dream.

podperson ,

You’re only stuck with the old battery until the next time you swap it out though? Could also remove the need to have charging stations all over the place - just use the gas station model which has been working well for a long time - no need to charge at home or in some random mall parking lot. Just pull into a swap station, get a newly charged battery (for which there should be some safety and quality standards put in place), and leave 5 minutes later.

xradeon ,

I think you’re still misunderstanding how this would work. So this battery swap setup is like the equivalent of going to the gas station. Basically, when your battery is close to being dead, you head to this place and get a fully charged battery. So it doesn’t matter that the battery is used, you just keeping swapping batteries out when you need it. Sure it would be annoying to know that when you bought the car, it came with a fresh battery that would get swapped out with an older battery, but you would have bought the car to get into the swapping system since this is mainly for folks that can’t do charging at home.

Wooki ,

I dont want your shitty old battery.

That is why.

itsmect ,

I don’t want to rent the battery in my car.

That is why.

SulaymanF ,

He announced it as part of a tax break scam, then let the project die.

gwildors_gill_slits ,

There’s been some discussion over the years that Tesla never seriously tried to make the battery swap work, that they did it to claim subsidies from California which they subsequently never returned to the taxpayers.

Zoboomafoo ,

what a classic

podperson ,

Wow - didn’t hear that but sounds like something he would do.

bluewing ,

I think there are actual longer term mechanical and safety issues with it. I don’t think the idea was quite ready for prime time just yet.

frezik ,

It’s not that good of an idea in the long run. It was attractive when EVs struggled to have 100mi range and L3 chargers didn’t exist. Once batteries got good enough to push 300-400mi and there’s plenty of L3 chargers around, it’s just not necessary. The range will outlast your bladder.

That’s on top of what others have mentioned about how they can get abused. You’ll never know if the new battery you’re getting is good. Or if the charge station tests it and find it’s junk, then they have to do something with it, which increases their costs.

podperson ,

I disagree. I know cross country road trips isn’t the norm for most, but at the moment, it burns an hour (at least on my car) to recharge if you need to during the middle of a trip that out-distances your car’s range. A quick battery swap would solve that and give you the same ease/downtime as filling up at a gas station. I’d think some people have a hard time swallowing having to wait an hour to fill up if they’re trying to get somewhere.

frezik ,

10-80% charge time is in the range of 20 minutes. EVs already exist that will get you 4 hours of driving on that. Yes, even in the cold.

This isn’t as big a problem in practice as it’s made out to be.

unreasonabro ,

funny considering how fucking boring he and his ideas tend to be

RecluseRamble ,

Elon doesn’t like boring

That can’t be right. He does have a boring company.

GoodEye8 ,

But that’s cool because the company name is a elementary school level word play, exactly the kind Musk likes. Also the company is about digging holes and everyone in kindergarten knows how cool digging is.

You can never forget that we’re dealing with a person whose emotional aptitude is the equivalent of a child.

ramjambamalam ,

I thought the Boring Company was more about pretending to want to dig holes to stifle public transit in order to bolster EV sales… Am I mistaken?

jj4211 ,

Self fulfilling prophecy that the company seems to have stopped doing stuff. He found it boring and it is failing.

Their rare “completed” projects are utter embarrassments.

frezik ,

It was attached to the hyperloop, right? Which itself doesn’t seem to be anything more than a ploy to delay/kill California high speed rail.

It succeeded exactly as much as it dared to hope. California rail does seem to be over the hump at this point, but it took an extra decade to get there.

bluewing ,

I know. The SC network and plug could make Tesla the new “Standard Oil” of the 21rst, (and a half!) Century. It could be far more valuable over the long term than that stupid truck.

AA5B ,

It’s so unexpected: charging should be steady, reliable, predictable income for the foreseeable future, no matter whose BEVs are most popular. They dominate supercharging in the US at the moment, but rapid buildout means someone else has a chance. Don’t they want to lock in this market?

I guess I assume it’s a profitable market , independent of vehicle sales. I wonder if that’s true

turmacar ,

I wonder if they miscalculated the install + maintenance cost vs the charging fee they’re giving customers. Like if it’s not balanced correctly they could be losing money on each charging station. Maybe the stations require more maintenance than they anticipated?

That seems like a super basic thing to do if you’re running the business, but so much of the initial rollout was about availability and low cost and do-it-now that maybe that was a secondary concern or they thought there’d be higher adoption by now. It also seems like a simple fix, raise charging prices and say why. But maybe either the discrepancy is too big or they’re worried about customer/media backlash.

Or maybe it’s another example of “move fast and break things” running into the real world and not being viable.

kent_eh ,

Maybe the stations require more maintenance than they anticipated?

That seems to be the case with many of the brands of public charging stations.

There are often more plugs out of service or operating at lower than rated capacity than there are fully working ones.

Death_Equity ,

The startup cost on their charger stations is pretty high and they typically have a deal with land owners to have them installed, so I doubt they hit break even for years on one bank.

They were aggressive in putting up charging areas to ease the hurdle of charging for potential customers when they were the only viable BEV and sales have slumped pretty badly now, so spending more on chargers at this point is financially unwise. With charger competition ramping up they are not in a great place for the financial aggression needed to have the chargers pay off in any timespan with limited income from car sales.

If they had been of the mindset to corner the charging market, instead of driving sales of their vehicles, they would have had an entirely different strategy and could have had a great steady income off chargers.

Milk_Sheikh ,
  • Fired the Supercharger head and the entire department
  • Fired the lead of new vehicle development
  • Previously fired head of battery development
  • Constantly “one year away” from Tesla full self driving, whilst Mercedes just launched geofenced FSD, with Mercedes assuming 100% liability during FSD
  • Elon just had a out of the blue trip to China, appears to have ‘kissed the ring’ of Beijing, and hyping TaaS robotaxis

What’s Tesla’s USP to an investor now? The supercharger ‘lock in’ and early head start at the EV game are Tesla’s biggest boons, but the former appears to have been gutted and the latter has been squandered on a slow model release schedule

homesweethomeMrL ,

If the Tesla Board had any responsibilities at all, it was to prevent this by ejecting Elmo. They chose to not.

It is now time to stick a fork in it. Billionaires - Away!

mriguy ,

Are they going to give him his $60B bonus now?

GrindingGears ,

The shareholders need to start calling out the clear bias of the boards constitution. Vanguard and iShares combined hold more shares than Elon does. It’s clearly doable, it’s just time for some adults in the room. If you hold Vanguard and iShares etfs in your accounts, don’t be afraid to let them know this.

unreasonabro ,

Worldwide food shortages are pretty likely this year, but sure, care about “investors”

explodicle ,

Got it, investing in food.

Milk_Sheikh ,

I actually don’t care about individual investors, beyond the implications for the broader ‘economy’ if the Tesla bubble bursts. But given how absurd the market cap for Tesla is compared to the traditional automakers, when this hype train stops picking up speed more rubes, the rest of us need it to coast down gradually, not crash and burn.

jonne ,

So is the implication that he’s just going to source all those things from a Chinese company? Basically the next Tesla and chargers will just be rebadged BYDs or whatever?

Milk_Sheikh ,

It could be as simple as securing more/better access to China’s significant rare earth deposits that batteries need. Could also be signs that Tesla is offshoring or pushing harder into China’s domestic market, but they’re way behind there

lorkano , (edited )

Mercedes fsd is pretty bad tho, it’s full self driving basically for marketing reasons. Following one geofenced highway without a problems is not close to full self driving. It does basically what tesla autopilot does but a little better. Not even better in some cases because if I recall correctly it can’t change lanes automatically. Sooo just a marketing from their side

Evilcoleslaw ,

Elon: m.youtube.com/watch?v=QJwLf7oF8AA&t=5s

kokesh ,
@kokesh@lemmy.world avatar

How the hell did he run down a company like Tesla?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d243b280-ca73-4060-91fc-1bc61ab3aaf8.jpeg

erwan ,

Cybertruck, and shitting on his customers on Twitter.

Most Tesla buyers are urban left wing people, not rural redneck. Shit on “the libs” and you’re shitting on your customer base.

mycodesucks ,
@mycodesucks@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe the Saudi investors who own him have finally called in the favor and told him it’s time to put an end to the EV transition…

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Is this clown trying to tank the company because he didn’t get his payout?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I think he’s trying to tank the company because he sees Sundar doing the same shit at Google and assumes it will lead to a big payout.

homesweethomeMrL ,

No he’s simply an arrogant, incompetent yutz.

Red_October ,

Yes Elmo, I’m sure that will solve your problems. Well done.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Musk also told staff that he would ask for the resignation of any executive “who retains more than three people who don’t obviously pass the excellent, necessary and trustworthy test.”

What a complete fuckup of a human. Sad to see so many trusted him. I guess we don’t have direct evidence of him being a serial killer at least.

m13 ,

We can be pretty sure he’s a pedophile though based on his connections to Epstein.

radiohead37 ,

I’m glad I turned down an offer from them back in the day.

explodicle ,

Unless you count his choice to buy cobalt from child slavery mines. That’s serial killer by proxy, I guess.

assassin_aragorn ,

Well Musk already has one strike against him for retaining himself. Just need to find two flunky exec yesmen he’s keeping on and he would be fired by his own standard.

ArbitraryValue ,

One bad quarter and they’re doing this? I don’t even.

Hypx ,
@Hypx@fedia.io avatar

The company is pretty much a big scam. There’s a reason why Moskovitz calls it the next Enron. Musk would turn it into a crypto company if he thought it would pump up the stock more. As a result, the actual business side of Tesla doesn’t really need to work.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

The electric car company who spent years pissing off liberals is faling? whodathunkit

TimeSquirrel ,
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

Yeah to this day I don't understand this "genius" business move. My redneck conservative dad sure as hell isn't buying an electric vehicle anytime soon, even if you put a giant MAGA hat on it.

AA5B ,

So the company had a downturn, and has to cut costs to maintain profitability. Charging is not the core product, so why spend money on it. It almost makes sense.

Musk does have a habit of making large single-minded bets and it surely takes a giga-ego to do that. His rise was based on some of those being correct, but we’ll see if this one is

BobaFuttbucker ,

The charging infrastructure is one of the biggest advantages their core product has.

All Tesla owners can take advantage of the higher speeds, relatively low charging price (at least in my area), and plug and charge functionality and that goes a long way in closing the sale for first time EV buyers.

So although not a core product itself, it’s one of the biggest selling points they have. Even non-teslas can charge at compatible stations and that’s just more profit for them. Combined with NACS being the new standard it makes sense to keep investing.

This decision doesn’t really make sense. You’re right though, we’ll see what happens ¯_(ツ)_/¯

homesweethomeMrL ,

All of which makes the decision to get rid of senior director of EV charging Rebecca Tinucci—along with her entire team—a bit of a head-scratcher. . . . Musk told workers that Tesla “will continue to build out some new Supercharger locations, where critical, and finish those currently under construction.”

Many Tesla fans had been holding out hope that Musk would debut a cheap Model 2 EV in recent weeks. Instead, the tycoon promised that robotaxis would save the business . . .

Delivering on that goal is more than just a technical challenge, and it will require the cooperation and approval of state and federal authorities. However, Musk is also dissolving the company’s public policy team in this latest cull.

Yeah that’s the ballgame.

EarMaster , (edited )

Oh Tesla gets the Twitter treatment. At that rate it will be renamed X within the next 7 months. Better make sure X (formerly known as Twitter) has been terminated by then otherwise they have to sue each other…

xxd ,

Tesla will be renamed to “X (formerly known as Tesla)” to keep it distinct from “X (formerly known as Twitter)”. Then, once all his companies have been renamed and finally merged, he’ll just run X into the ground. Way more efficient than doing it for each company individually!

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

To shreds, you say?

Kyrgizion ,

And the wife?

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