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Roku’s Ultimatum: Surrender Jury Trial Rights or Lose Access to Your TVs

Did your Roku TV decide to strong arm you into giving up your rights or lose your FULLY FUNCTIONING WORKING TV? Because mine did.

It doesn’t matter if you only use it as a dumb panel for an Apple TV, Fire stick, or just to play your gaming console. You either agree or get bent.

Reygle ,
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

My Roku TV’s been reset to factory and not allowed on the internet for a few years now. It’s a TV. It displays shit that I give it over HDMI. If you desire more than that you’re part of the problem. I work in IT and that’s why my home has physical locks, a 30 year old thermostat, and cameras I own with recordings on a DVR I own.

sebinspace ,

In my experience, people that use the phrase “you’re part of the problem” so loosely are often the most miserable jackasses anyone ever allowed into society.

People just want neat things. It’s not wrong to want neat things.

gmtom ,

It’s not wrong to think people are stupid for wanting pointlessly internet connected things either.

sebinspace ,

Man, you are one angry fucker… You ever try weed?

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

Weed doesn’t magically make you less hostile of a person. If that were the case Canada would be a hell of a lot better than it is now, and it isn’t.

sebinspace ,

Shid, fair

gmtom ,

I do smoke, wierdly enough it doesn’t make me not care about privacy and practicality.

Vit ,

Well sure, but we’re not talking about a washing machine or a refrigerator. Currently most media we watch is over the internet, so I at least don’t consider a TV with an internet connection “pointlessly” online.

gmtom ,

Okay, well you are free to enjoy having your device bricked whenever the company you bought it from wants to.

Vit ,

And that’s incredibly unfortunate. Make no mistake, I’m not arguing in favor of the companies here. I was merely pointing out that TVs are not one of the impractical “smart” devices, which I believe you implied. There’s plenty of good use cases for an internet connected TV, and I don’t think users are stupid for wanting one. I too wish that we could have nice things not be ruined by corporate greed. That’s all. Have a good day.

namingthingsiseasy ,

It’s not wrong, but it’s just terribly short-sighted. You’re giving greed-crazed companies total control over a device that you own and nobody else should be able to touch.

Shiny things come at a cost. Sure, it may look convenient and super cool to have all these features, but it’s important to understand the trade-offs. And this is just the tip of the iceberg - we don’t even know what kinds of malice these companies will think of 5-10 years from now when these machines are even more widespread and probably come with even more invasive anti-user hardware capabilities.

It’s not wrong… it’s just very very naïve.

sfgifz ,

No ones asking you to stick some shiny thing up your ass and walk around to see how it fits. If you don’t like these services don’t use them, for most of us the convinience of an Internet connected device that let’s you stream content published to the Internet is a value.

Bahnd ,

The issue is that the market has spoken. People want cool neat things and they want them cheap. Companies were able to lower the price of major devices by including all the always-online stuff as it generated revenue after the initial purchase.

Now everything comes with smart shit wether you want it or not, and for those that dont, the product they wish to have dosent exist or is more expensive. So… the argument that the “naiveity” of the masses is making things worse is valid.

phx ,

Most people don’t get that this is even possible until it bites them in the ass like this.

Certainly my own parents wouldn’t think to try and find a “dumb” TV in this market or to not connect the damn thing to the internet like it tells you when you power it on. They bought a TV that lets them watch Netflix.

By the same token, I don’t except my fucking microwave to suddenly require that I accept a ToS in order to nuke a potato, or to suddenly start showing me ads in increasing amounts a year or more after I bought and paid for it.

Users aren’t the problem. Shitty companies and a lack of strong legislation against this (or legislators being for it) are the problem. Nobody should ever be presented with a 50 page ever-changing EULA for a product they’ve paid for to access common functionality.

They’re not a problem. They’re not even naive. They’re just not savvy on all things about a given technology especially when it comes up aspects of legal arguments on such.

Reygle ,
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

I agree. That was why I originally bought the damned thing. Once I saw what it was doing on my network I decided “nope, that’s enough from you” and reset it. I’m not saying people who also bought it and continue to use it as intended are dumb, I’m suggesting the device itself and what it does is evil.

gearheart ,

Interesting take… If we desire to use the full advertised features of a product we own we are part of the problem.

I suggest some self love and an open mind to learn and adapt. It’s okay though not everyone is capable of this.

chocosoldier ,

maybe try being less of a condescending ass

Reygle ,
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

Huh. I don’t actually think I said any of that. Sorry I made you feel that way.

I take it back- I guess I did.

csolisr ,

The problem with not being part of the problem is that, in many cases, it means no longer being able to be part of vast chunks of society. Take it from me - I’ve been boycotting Big Media and most entertainment platforms for about a decade, and now I genuinely can’t have any hobbies, besides of maybe activism, to share something with friends to begin with.

chocosoldier ,

same except i haven’t felt there’s a problem. get better friends.

csolisr ,

Yeah about that, I never really had any friends, and now it’s increasingly difficult to make any if you don’t watch movies or listen to music or follow sports or play the more popular video games. There’s preciously little to talk about if you don’t engage in popular culture out of ethical concerns.

Reygle ,
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

I’m sorry that you feel that way. I’ve got hobbies that may not interest you, but I feel un-hindered by being off the big platforms. Different generation maybe.

olafurp ,

If that’s the case, why not just go for a commercial display TV (like McD). They run virtually forever and you get them for very low prices.

vrozon ,

Happen to have any examples? The last time I looked into this (around 5 years ago) everything that existed in this category was substantially lower quality and substantially more expensive.

Reygle ,
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

Sure! I didn’t know when I bought it that I’d come to this conclusion, but I learned over time. Been about 4 years or so since I bought it.

EmperorHenry ,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

yar har fiddle dee dee you are a pirate.

Bleach7297 ,
@Bleach7297@lemmy.ca avatar

You are a P̸̡̖̻̖͎̫̞̯̙͚͐̽̌̃̃͑̾͑̃̇̃̌̌̓ͪ̚͟͝͏̷̡̡͘͟͟͜͟I̶̶̡̳̼̪̰̥̬͋̃͘̕͟͡͡ͅĘ̸̧̪͉͉̙͙̝͍̞͍̣͓͚̬̞̙̪ͥ̐ͬͩ̃ͨͥͦͫ̿̀̀́̚͟͡C̴̸̸̨̤̘̝̺͉̙̱̰͇̻̙̥̑͒ͭ̇̀͐ͪ̐̏̐ͬ̀́̚͘͜͠͝͝E̸̴̢̮̦͎̫̲̬͓̳̪̖̪ͭ̒͐̔ͮͧ̅ͨ̽͋̇̊͌ͯͬͭͨ́̀̚͢͜͟͜͡͝͏̵̢̛̛̀͜͝-̰͎͎͎̬̙ͫ͊ͣ̚͘҉̢̛̛́͘͟͞͞Ơ̵̵̧̛̥̜̦̹͍ͨ̿̐̓͋ͤ̉ͬ̄͋ͪ̆͑́͘̕͘͟͟͜͜͡͡F̙͎̟͔̥͈̦̔͋ͩ̏͌ͧ͑͆͒ͩ̿͒ͥ͐́̀͜͏̛͢-̶̭̭̲̻̫̠̲̳̭̯̟̏͆̎ͣͩ̉͑ͨͩͧ͟ͅ͏͟͡͞͠͠͏̴̴͝S̶̴̴̶̸̵̢̧̹ͣ̎ͪͥ̿̊́͆̓̐̊͑͢͟͢͢͞͠҉̨̢͡H͕͖̞̠͔̤̏̓ͩ̒ͯ̚͢͞I̖͇̯̹ͥ͌̐̇͏̶̵̶̧̨̛̛͡͡͝͡͏̢́́̀͠͞Ţ̴̷̷̨̧̛̠̯̞̞̌͐̐̑̐̍ͨ̏́͘̕͠͠҉̛́́͡, you are a piiirate!

unphazed ,

I work for a streaming cable company and we keep getting calls about this. It’s not us, its Roku. You have to use your tv remote. Sorry you threw it away. We emulate the basic functions, but why would we emulate an asterisk? You’re cancelling because we can’t fix a third party issue… gotcha.

TrickDacy ,

So Roku is also a piece of shit too eh? I knew that their device I bought wasn’t great but I thought it was just a cheap one. Glad I’m creating a media PC on Linux

cordlesslamp ,

What even the point of making laws and regulations if corporate can just force you to waive all your rights?

shoppingrat ,
@shoppingrat@lemmy.world avatar

thats what the law is becoming. a way to enforce the will of the corporate state.

daddy32 ,

That’s one big difference between the US and the EU law. In the EU, they can’t.

A_Random_Idiot ,

Whats the point of laws when they just get in the way of corporate interests and exploitation.

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

This. Someone please think of the corporations

frosty ,
@frosty@pawb.social avatar

Will someone please think of the CEO’s bonus?? (…Nah, they can get bent.)

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

Don’t forget the poor shareholders as well. I don’t know what we’d do without them

Gabu ,

That’s why unalienable rights are so important.

Chewget ,

A court wouldn’t uphold this

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

There’s a nonzero chance the SCOTUS would.

reverendsteveii ,

and by the time the court throws it out the TV I paid for has been disabled for months and I’m out a ton of money and time. A lot of people will just agree because defending your rights in this country is very expensive and cumbersome. They’re counting on this idea.

ours ,

Because the laws and regulations have been influenced by lobbying by large corporations to suit them best.

cordlesslamp ,

I still can’t comprehend why American just accepting that “lobbyists” are a normal thing.

Isn’t that literally bribery in broad daylight to influence laws making decisions? And the fact that a corporate can “sponsor” politicians. You’re supposed to making those laws to keep the corporate in line, not taking their handout.

Are there any other countries with the same “lobbying” practice?

palitu ,

I do not think that this can be legal, if you have already agreed to terms.

Surely they can just say from now on, thing you have used for a year is not usable unless you promise not to sue us.

Surely that ship has sailed?

theherk ,

Pray they don’t alter them any further… or we’ll all end up riding a unicycle in a pink dress.

Plopp ,

That sounds like fun though!

feedum_sneedson ,

gender bending is played out; drab gray jumpsuits for everyone and no talking

the unicycles can stay as an approved method of personal transport

MeanEYE ,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

EULAs are a magical playground in USA. If you agreed in initial terms that they can change this document in future with or without notifying you, then they are within their rights to change it.

palitu ,

Urgh.

ipkpjersi ,

Where I live, the way contract law (at least in regards to employment) works is generally you can’t alter terms (by imposing additional restrictions) after both parties have agreed to it unless there is some form of compensation provided for the restricted party in exchange for agreeing to those additional restrictions.

CosmicCleric , (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Sections 1(F) and 1(L) seem like the only ways out/around of this. (IANAL; the bolding emphasis was done by me.)

F. Small Claims. You or Roku may pursue any Claim, except IP Claims, in a small-claims court instead of through arbitration if (i) the Claim meets the jurisdictional requirements of the small claims court and (ii) the small claims court does not permit class or similar representative actions or relief.

L. 30-Day Right to Opt Out. You have the right to opt out of arbitration by sending written notice of your decision to opt out to the following address by mail: General Counsel, Roku Inc., 1701 Junction Court, Suite 100, San Jose, CA 95112 within 30 days of you first becoming subject to these Dispute Resolution Terms. Such notice must include the name of each person opting out and contact information for each such person, the specific product models, software, or services used that are at issue, the email address that you used to set up your Roku account (if you have one), and, if applicable, a copy of your purchase receipt. For clarity, opt-out notices submitted via any method other than mail (including email) will not be effective. If you send timely written notice containing the required information in accordance with this Section 1(L), then neither party will be required to arbitrate the Claims between them.

Any lawyers out there who can speak towards the three bolded parts?

ConstantPain , (edited )

Here in Brazil, EULAs (they are called adhesion contracts here) can only deal with the way service is provided and cannot limit consumer rights in any way. Even if the contract has these types of clauses, they are considered void by default.

These types of things never fly here.

Belgdore ,

The same is mostly true in the US. The companies use them to scare people into settlements. But it does depend on the state.

KairuByte ,
@KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Binding arbitration is not only a thing, but has been upheld by the courts as enforceable.

Belgdore ,

It depends on your state. The verbiage that works on one state doesn’t necessarily work in another.

stoly ,

This sort of thing isn’t new but I’ve seen this particular one all over the place. Was there something different from this experience compared to the times that people have agreed in the past?

wagoner ,

Opt out per the instructions!

MacNCheezus ,
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

They REQUIRE you to send them via snail mail.

It even specifically states that email is not valid.

thisbenzingring ,

If you own one of those and you’re a US resident, contact your state attorney general.

Got_Bent ,

Ken paxton? Lulz, he’d probably come after me for saying anything.

PigsInClover ,

Before I even finished reading that comment I thought, “Fuck. Ken Paxton would probably just take it as inspiration to accept money from Roku.”

Congrats to those in other states though. I am envious.

Simulation6 ,

Good advice, depending on state. I think there is something in MD law that says you can’t sign away your legal rights.

j4k3 ,
@j4k3@lemmy.world avatar

Smart TV’s are stupid scams. I quit watching the big screens in 2018. My phone is larger, at the distance I am comfortable laying down, than the 72in screen on the wall in front of me right now in my family’s living room. In the USA, without LUFS regulations, I’m not interested in watching any content embedded in corporate media advertising streams. (Tom Scott LUFS YT, Wikipedia: LUFS)

aniki ,

Mate, the eye strain of staring at a screen 5" from your face is monumentally higher than being able to relax your vision while staring at a monster screen.

lolcatnip , (edited )

Some of us like to watch with other people.

j4k3 ,
@j4k3@lemmy.world avatar

Well some of us got no other people, so ha! /s

lolcatnip ,

Been there. It sucks. Best of luck finding your crowd.

Zengen ,

Just do a judge trial instead of a jury trial. Lol

kandoh ,

I’ve been saying in other threads; if it has an internet connection you don’t own it, you use it with the parent companies permission

BreakDecks ,

That’s not a great metric. Plenty of devices connect to the Internet without sacrificing user privacy or freedom. It’s not connectivity that ruins the product, it’s where on the Internet that product connects, and if you are allowed to have control over how the product works.

We need to have better literacy about proprietary software, walled gardens, automatic updates, and the consequences to the user experience if you become dependent on these kinds of products.

But I don’t have much faith. Microsoft puts ads on the start menu and inside of Solitaire, and Windows remains solidly the most popular OS. People overwhelmingly let enshittification happen without serious resistance.

kandoh ,

Plenty of devices connect to the Internet without sacrificing user privacy or freedom

If they do, it’s only because the company allows it and all that is needed for that to change is one management decision.

jabjoe ,
@jabjoe@feddit.uk avatar

If you don’t have admin, and arguably source code, you don’t own it.

MeanEYE ,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

Technically according to USA law you don’t own anything, ever. You own the medium, like plastic on CD, but not the data on it. You don’t own the music you own the right to reproduce recording for your own personal and enjoyment. By subscribing they are not selling you the access to service, they are giving your the right to use it for set period of time.

Evilcoleslaw ,

The bigger thing here is no class arbitration or other representative proceeding. A lot of law firms do arbitration now against companies either with class arbitration or just thousands of individual arbitrations filed en masse. I wonder if this protects them from even the latter approach? It would be shitty if it forced you to do all the legwork on the arbitration yourself.

In any case I get this is happening now and why it’s such a huge ultimatum is they know they’re about to get hit with a ton of Video Privacy Protection Act suits. Turns out in the late 80s the US made video service providers that share video watching/rental/purchase history open to actual damages of $2500. So in the last year or two a ton of law firms have started filing class actions and arbitrations against all the streaming services and platforms.

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

If I recall correctly that law was quickly passed when a Congressman’s video rental history was leaked.

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