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menthol ,

Why do these dumb ass CEO’s keep admitting this type of stuff in interviews? Don’t tell us your evil plans. No one is going to hear this and be more eager to buy your products. They’re so proud of coming up with ways to screw customers that they just can’t help themselves. They have to let everyone know. I don’t get it.

RatherBeMTB ,

Because that interview is for investors. He’s looking out for the shares price, not his customers. We can always buy other products, like Canon or Epson. It’s too bad because HP printers are the best, but not enough to let us be robbed like other brands.

TheKracken ,

HP printers and the software with them sucks ass. Never again. Bought a brother laser printer and shit just works without any bullshit.

thecrotch ,

HP printers are the best

No. Not by any metric.

Agent641 ,

I aspire to be a bad investment for every company

LazaroFilm ,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

I do not want to be measured as an investment but as a customer.

Agent641 ,

I dont want to be measured as a customer either. I want to fall under the ‘T’ part of their SWOT analysis.

spizzat2 ,

That’s interesting! TIL, thanks!

Toribor ,
@Toribor@corndog.social avatar

I’m not really on Reddit much anymore but every time an article would get posted about how Redditors were the least valuable social media users for advertising purposes I was always like “Fuck yeah.”

mechoman444 ,

Ah. The only good kind of investment!

_number8_ ,

investors should be taken to a remote island and left to fend for themselves

Fedizen ,

investors should be taken to a remote planet and left to fend for themselves.

essteeyou ,

Yikes, I hope you don’t have a pension.

spare_muppets ,

Most people don’t

essteeyou ,

Seems like slightly more than half of American workers (56%) participate in a “workplace retirement plan” which I don’t know the definition of. Pension or 401k if I had to guess.

Cataphract ,

Why research, post a statistical number, and completely abandon reading anything else in the article for context? Stating a number that you have no idea what it’s defining? You’re spreading misinformation for some weird “I was right” gotcha comment. The literal next line where you got 56% from,

Percentage of workers participating in a pension plan: 19

This includes all types of employment, for just private it’s a measly 11%. State and local government employees bump up all of the stats. Nice little tidbit at the end: "A pension plan is a traditional or hybrid defined benefit plan. In 2022 forty one percent of workers in private-sector pension plans were in plans that were closed to new entrants.

How does this vary from previous years? What are the different types of definitions and actual “benefits” that the employee may see. What are the differences in private and public sector “retirement plans” (or contribution vs defined benefits). I’ve been reading through the BLS.gov website in regards to all of this and it’s one sad fact after another. But sure, put a healthy untrue spin on it to win some internet points while completely missing the context, skewed facts have never caused any harm.

essteeyou ,

Yeah, I stopped researching it. Perhaps we should go back to the more measured approach from earlier in the thread.

investors should be taken to a remote planet and left to fend for themselves.

Cataphract ,

Well instead of forming emotional opinions we can try an educated opinion next? You really do yourself a disservice by saying you have no idea what you’re talking about.

essteeyou ,

I understand your point, and I would typically do more research, however the people I was replying to have seemingly abandoned the thread after making their kind of insane statements, and made even less effort than I did to prove their point.

There’s not much reason to drag this out now. I’d rather spend my time on threads with more purpose, or just not online at all. :-)

Cataphract ,

Man, I want to appreciate your attitude but you’re just wrong and possibly the worse type of person to be on social media. I’m replying to you (me a commenter), they made a factual statement and you provided false statistics which I replied to. It doesn’t matter “Who”, unless this is just a competition to you versus “Them”. Please run off to things with more purpose like “Threads” lol. Lemmy doesn’t need more disinformation or uneducated guesses from bottom feeders who don’t care about anything but their imaginary pensions.

essteeyou ,

Sure, I should either agree to the death of everyone who ever invested any money into anything, or I should spend my time researching exactly how many people that is.

Xanis ,

Not gonna lie, thought that said “inventors” and I was like, “I’d watch that.”

qjkxbmwvz ,

In grad school I picked up a free used HP LaserJet. It had Ethernet, and could use generic/off brand cartridges. Yeah it was big and noisy but it was an awesome workhorse and it Just Worked (with out-of-the-box CUPS/Linux support too, IIRC).

How the mighty have fallen.

calypsopub ,

Yeah, my first color inkjet was an HP and it was an absolute workhorse. I had a graphic design business and I remember printing 1500 4-page newsletters for a client who couldn’t wait for a regular printing press due to a deadline. I stayed up all night feeding paper into that thing and had to change the black ink cartridge twice, for about $50 each, during the whole ordeal. I loved that printer. When it finally died after 15 years or so, I tried to find another HP that could do the job. What a mistake. Current models are hot garbage.

So now I have an Epson Ecotank which I bought three years ago and literally have not yet had to purchase additional ink past the first set of bottles that came with it. Sadly, the photo printing quality is not as good as the old HP, but for my purposes it is perfect.

Reverendender ,

How small and shriveled this man’s soul must be. He should take a lesson from Ferdinand the Bull, and enjoy smelling the flowers for a while.

DeadNinja ,
@DeadNinja@lemmy.world avatar

Excuse me - if I bought your product and paid for it, in what universe am I not investing into you, and instead you are investing into me??

HP is a steaming pile of shit.

user224 ,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Because they sell the printers at loss, expecting you to buy their overpriced ink, continually earning them money for years.

Sounds like a subscription to be honest.

SlopppyEngineer ,

They want to make it a subscription that starts automatically when you buy the printer. No payment or the linked credit card expires, no more printing. Keep on paying for that subscription each month even if you don’t print a single page.

Archer ,

Here was I, thinking printers couldn’t get worse

mosiacmango ,

HP literally has that already. They call their dystopian product “Instant ink.”

SlopppyEngineer ,

And they’re fuming because they can’t force this down the throat of every “bad investments”. Not yet anyway.

user224 ,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

But they’re really trying with HP+ printers that come with a 3 month trial of Instant Ink. And it’s not like you lose the ability to use 3rd party cartridges, because those HP+ printers already come locked down from factory. Those HP+ printers also have extra REQUIREMENTS: HP Account and internet connection.

Imagine if you needed internet connection and some account to control your lights. Oh, Philips Hue changed their ToS, so now you do.

SlopppyEngineer ,

Why internet of things is a bad idea for 500, Alex.

ReallyActuallyFrankenstein ,

I know we assume they’re following the “razor blade” model but I actually find it hard to believe the printers are sold at a loss given how cheap it is to produce at this point.

Unless by “loss” we’re saying “less than HP thought it could extract.”

WhatAmLemmy ,

They’re absolutely not producing them at a loss. The loss is only in their projections and expectations to price gouge their customers.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I just looked. You can get an HP Deskjet on Amazon for $40. They are producing those at a loss and expecting people to pay for their bullshit ink subscriptions.

frezik ,

Right. There isn’t a printer under $150 that anyone should even consider. If you can’t afford the upfront cost, then you won’t be able to afford the ink of the “cheap” end of the market.

More people should consider not owning a printer at all and using a FedEx print shop or some such. I get the convenience argument for having one, but consider it.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I invested $150-200 on a Brother laser printer a very long time ago. Like we’re talking USB 1.0 era long time ago. It still works just fine. I’ve had to replace the toner cartridge once. Those things are workhorses. They will last until the sun goes out. Get one of those if you need a printer. It will still be compatible with your OS, the quality will be all you’ll likely ever need, and you don’t even have to worry about getting a new one because you can get an ancient one on eBay for a very low price and it will still be fine. All you’re missing is color and even if you print a lot, like you said, go to FedEx if you need color because it will probably be cheaper than ink anyway.

RatherBeMTB ,

The real question here is where are the Chinese printers?! I mean, it’s a big market, why aren’t they getting into it?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Xiaomi makes a couple of expensive standard inkjets, but mostly they make photo printers. That’s the only one I can think of.

frezik ,

It’s really hard to break into it. Being accurate enough to print at 300dpi is very difficult, and that’s not particularly impressive. If it’s color, then the problems are multiplied. You have to precisely align four different print heads (minimum), and the ink needs to be mixed just right for accurate colors.

This is also why you don’t see open source 2d printers like you do for 3d printers. On the surface, adding a third dimension seems like it’d make things more complicated, but 3d printers don’t need the level of accuracy that 2d printers do.

RatherBeMTB ,

But I would think TVs and microchips are more complicated than printers. And those two have been cracked by the Chinese.

forrgott ,

That’s not how investments work. If I put my money into purchasing a printer, I invested in that purchase. Not the other way around. Ffs

inclementimmigrant ,

Guess I’m fucking very proud to be some asshole corporation’s “bad investment”. I’ll wear that title with a huge smile on my face if I ever buy one of their shitty products.

Brother laser printer for life*

*At least until they go full anti-consumer and my now almost decade old printer dies.

jelloeater85 ,
@jelloeater85@lemmy.world avatar

Plus the work great with after market stuff.

Burn_The_Right ,

HP wants to pay employees in company scrip.

_haha_oh_wow_ ,
@_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works avatar

HP is a bad investment

pepperprepper ,

I have always had a conspiracy theory that the ink management requirements are set by national security input. All printers have a yellow dot pattern added to every print to identify the printer by a forensics team. I wonder if this is why the ink landscape is so shifty. They want to make sure those dots get printed. My thought on why you can’t print black and white when you are only missing colored ink.

db2 ,

The conspiracy theory falls apart with black only printers. 🤷

mozz ,
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

In case anyone cares, I'm sitting next to a Brother MFC-J1205W. It cost a couple hundred bucks, came with all full ink cartridges, and makes absolutely gorgeous color prints in addition to obviously being fine for printing-type printing. I've bought more ink for it once and it was $47 for every color of color cartridge with tons of ink inside them (I was out of yellow; I still have the cyan and magenta cartridges, and I've never had to buy more black). I'm extremely happy with it so far.

Before that, I had an Epson Workforce 545. It was pricey but it lasted, no joke, about 15 years, and worked well for the first ten and acceptably after that (not producing beautiful documents any more but still perfectly functional for printing). It only died because someone spilled sauce into it. It was a little more greedy on the ink than the Brother is.

Edit: Oh, and to my knowledge neither of these printers ever tried to tell me that I needed to install their special rootkit software in order to get the full experience of their printer. I just plug them in and they print. I feel like that's a selling point in our blighted modern age.

kaitco ,

I care, and I’ve added this to my list for when it comes time to grab a new printer.

I have my HP from about 15 years ago that has been trudging along for the two times a year that I need to print, but that thing was from another era and once it goes, there will not be another HP printer in my future.

Mereo ,

Every time a customer buys a printer, it’s an investment for us. We are investing in that customer, and if that customer doesn’t print enough or doesn’t use our supplies, it’s a bad investment.

Brother, for the love of anything holy, please do not follow HP’s path.

Nindelofocho ,

I wonder if I can 3D print parts for and make a reliable 2D printer

GenderNeutralBro ,

In other words: “Our business model is bad and I feel smug about it.”

spacecowboy ,

Don’t buy HP printers. Buy Brothers instead. They’re a better product anyways.

dan1101 ,

For now anyway. Enshittification strikes too many products eventually.

itsJoelle ,

Which is making me sad. 3d printing is so open atm, but I wouldn’t be surprised if enshittification will take place in this space in my lifetime.

lemann ,

That’s mostly going to be in the hands of Bambu I think, they only recently just allowed users to flash custom firmware onto the X1.

If Prusa doesn’t come back with a strong challenger we will be in trouble IMO. They have that amazing corexy that rivals the Bambu in performance (but not price!) but for a lot of people it’s too big anyway sadly

evranch ,

There’s a huge world of clone printers, aftermarket mainboards, hotends, extruders etc. that doesn’t look like it’s going away.

Some manufacturers may go closed but it’s way too easy to build your own printer for it to be a big concern in the FDM world.

Resin on the other hand already has lots of custom slicers, firmware etc. probably because there’s a lot less mechanics and a lot more screen. But I’m not sure of the future of consumer resin anyways, a lot of people are realizing how toxic that unlabelled Chinese product really is.

frezik ,

I had someone a while back arguing that FDM printers were hopelessly toxic and resin printers would be the only ones on the market within a year. Naturally, this was well over a year ago.

Resin printers have their uses, but man, they are a mess to use.

frezik ,

It sorta did, but pulled back. DaVinci tried selling printers that had chips in the filament spools and used the same razer blade business model as low end inkjets. Anet also sold printers that cut too many corners and they often caught fire.

Then Creality made the Ender 3. I unironically think it’s a brilliant design. It cuts corners just enough to be cheap, but not so much that it’s useless garbage. They had two issues early on: lack of thermal runaway protection in the firmware, and a bad connector to the power supply. Both were fixable by end users, and both have long been fixed in shipping models.

At the same time, companies like Prusa refused to join in that race to the bottom. Good for them. If you’re an established player like that and already have a reputation for quality, never get involved in a race to the bottom. That’s how you become what HP is now.

pearsaltchocolatebar ,

I’m just now having to replace my brother printer (HL-2170W) I bought in 06, because the NIC is toast.

The printer still works great, but duplex printing sure would be nice.

LWD , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    pearsaltchocolatebar ,

    I haven’t had any reason to print in color for like 20 years. I’m sure many consumers are the same.

    If I do need to print color, I’ll pay $0.10 at UPS or the library or whatever to print it off.

    Treczoks ,

    But have a close look at the model you are buying. We recently noticed that the relatively cheap Epson Ecotank we bought for our daughter is a bit difficult to maintain. You simply have no access to the printheads.

    Gerudo ,

    Every inkjet printer on this planet has a choice. Cheap ink, accessible printheads, expensive. You have to pick one.

    Certain Hp? Expensive cartridges but new print heads with every cart. Epson ecotank? Cheap ink but non replaceable printheads. High-end printers? Insanely priced printheads and ink.

    The only way out is laser.

    jelloeater85 ,
    @jelloeater85@lemmy.world avatar

    2170 crowd represent!!!

    Those things run forever and cost nothing to run.

    pearsaltchocolatebar ,

    I think I’ve only bought 3x toner cartridges, and one of those got lost because I shook the old one and it just kept working for a year or two.

    monkeyman512 ,

    If it still has working USB you can hook it up to a $10 raspberry pi with wifi to act as a print server. I can understand if that’s a more ambitious tech project than your ready to take on.

    user224 ,
    @user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    There also used to be network printer adapters in the past. For example, the Belkin F8T030 Bluetooth AP. Yes, Bluetooth AP. I’d like something like that just for fun. Perhaps not this one specifically, as it only supports BT-LAP out-of-the-box and requires firmware upgrade for BT-PAN. Good luck finding firmware for a niche product from 2003.

    But anyway, perhaps something like that (the printer part) is still made.

    LifeInOregon ,

    The old Apple AirPort Express could turn any USB printer into a networked printer.

    projectsquared ,

    Absolutely this. Find them online for $10 all day.

    pearsaltchocolatebar ,

    I’m a systems engineer, so it would be a short project for me. My homelab router could run the print server, but the USB port is currently powering my pi hole.

    I feel like there would be some way to rig an esp32 or similar micro controller to do the same thing (pis can be scarce atm

    mosiacmango ,

    A powered plugin usb hub would likely be easier.

    pearsaltchocolatebar ,

    But not as fun as making my own.

    mosiacmango , (edited )

    Entertainment always wins over efficiency.

    pearsaltchocolatebar ,

    Security too. I dont trust 90% of internet connected devices.

    frezik ,

    Rpi stock issues are well behind us. You can buy them straight up now. Even the 1GB RPi4.

    Esp32 may not have enough RAM to buffer large prints, especially if there’s a lot of graphics. It is possible to give it up to 4MB of external RAM, but that’s still not much.

    Pi Pico can do a 16MB external RAM chip. That’s starting to be adaqute.

    I had an HP 5si for a while with 20MB of internal RAM. It struggled with Postscript printing–could only buffer and print one page at a time. Did fine with HP’s own PDL drivers, though.

    pearsaltchocolatebar ,

    I still had some trouble getting the Zero 2Ws, but a lot of sellers still have a limit of 1 per order.

    I’ll probably use my Zero W for the print server once I replace the controller for my snake’s enclosure with a 2.

    chemicalwonka ,
    @chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Brother is just a little less greed than HP, nothing more

    checkforupdates ,

    They’re about as bad. But a new set of ink cartridges and they immediately go “empty” within two months even if you’re not using them. Switch to a laser jet.

    dumpsterlid ,

    Imagine working high up in this company and not wanting to jump off a bridge every time you get off of work. Psychos.

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