There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

Evil_Shrubbery ,

The best time was always.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, lets switch to questionable ethics company number 2 and shady finances.

I used to use Firefox as my primary browser and sometimes even recommended it, but after all those articles I started digging a bit and doing research on what the browser calls and does and I was bit horrified. What I really don’t like about this Mozilla situation is that tech people tend to see them as the “all savior Mozilla” while, in fact, they’re full of shit.

If you do care about freedom and your privacy use LibreWolf or Ungoogled Chromium.

Contend6248 ,

What are these sources, but yes, LibreWolf is the way to go

SatyrSack ,

If you do care about freedom and your privacy use LibreWolf or Ungoogled Chromium.

Neither of which are mentioned in the article, for some reason.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Neither of which are mentioned in the article, for some reason.

What’s your point? The articles are about why you should avoid Firefox… not about suggesting alternatives.

SatyrSack ,

That is exactly the point of the article

Today we will go ahead and take a look at a number of privacy-oriented web browsers outside those provided by Big Tech, which treat you like a human being and not a bullseye for targeted advertisement revenue.

shalva97 ,

Why Firefox? there are so many other options

redditReallySucks ,
@redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Name another usable browser which is not based on FF or Chromium

smileyhead ,

Any website that does not work in Lynx is just bad design.

Contend6248 ,

Safari 💀

redditReallySucks ,
@redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

True but it is available on a limited number of plattforms

Destraight ,

I don’t want to

Sheeple ,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

Man goes into icecream store, yells “I don’t want icecream” for no reason. More at 11

MrSqueezles ,

Last I checked, Firefox had also been switching to Manifest v3 because they’re also combating the tide of add-ons that pretend to do something useful, but actually steal your information. They asked uBlock at least a few times how they could build Manifest v3 in a way that’d be compatible. Instead of the browser asking about each URL, thereby giving the add-on access to personal information, uBlock could tell the browser what to block. uBlock’s answer was always, “No. That’s not good enough. Give the add-on access to URLs.” It seemed to me like every time uBlock was approached, they turned to news sites to complain and IIR, the feature that would have given uBlock some functionality was removed from v3 because if nobody’s going to use it, why build it?

I wonder, now that uBlock has conflated the discussion of, “How much should extensions be able to see and modify URLs you’re visiting?”, with, “v3 is a war on ad blockers!”, how quickly Firefox will move forward with v3, if at all.

avidamoeba ,
@avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

I think a lot of people don’t realize what a gaping security hole extensions can be. Back in the 2000s, I’d install almost anything that seemed useful without realizing the amount of data that goes through them.

nutsack ,

haha what a cool recurring post

fne8w2ah ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    13617 ,

    pro tip: use Ninite and put it on a separate USB with ooshutup10 and install without even opening edge!

    Blisterexe ,

    Or use Linux and just get it from the Appstore (if it isn’t already preinstalled and the default)

    Xylight ,
    @Xylight@lemdro.id avatar

    It’s weird how lots of devs treat chrome as a standard, even though when developing I have a lot more issues with Chrome browsers than Firefox browsers

    redditReallySucks ,
    @redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I think devs go chrome first and then adapt the site to firefox.

    TCB13 ,
    @TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

    Because Chrome rendering and dev tools are effetely superior to Firefox. That’s why.

    RustyNova ,

    I’d disagree on Dev tools. Both are really great and useful. What I’d say is that Firefox may have less support for external debugging, but that’s more others choosing not to do Firefox debugging

    AlphaOmega ,

    I haven’t had any issues with browser compatibility since IE. Occasionally Safari might have some CSS issue, but it’s been probably 10 years since I had any major issues with browser compatibility. Html 5 and CSS 3 tend to work across all browsers without issue.

    offspec ,

    There are some niche features Mozilla refuses to accept like WebSerial and WebMIDI, but they’re starting to come around on them.

    smileyhead ,

    Across all two of them.

    I would really like to see how broken the web would be if someone in theory create a new complete implementation of the basic standards.

    bamboo ,

    Three: Chrome and friends, Safari, Firefox

    Contend6248 ,

    Well the market share is the whole story when it comes figuring out whats the standard

    OrangeCorvus ,
    @OrangeCorvus@lemmy.world avatar

    I would love to use Firefox, would switch in an instant but the browser feels so barebones. I’m using Vivaldi and that’s how I think Firefox should have been, tons of options and features. Don’t want to install extensions that might be sold to the highest bidder.

    Jungle , (edited )

    I use LibreWolf because Firefox feels to bloated

    We are not the same

    OrangeCorvus ,
    @OrangeCorvus@lemmy.world avatar

    Sure, that’s how it should be and I think a browser should adapt to the user.

    KonalaKoala ,
    @KonalaKoala@lemmy.world avatar

    LibreFox

    I think you mean LibreWolf there.

    Jungle ,

    I do. Corrected.

    ZenbyBosatsu ,

    I’d largely like to agree. My main issue is as others have said, some websites don’t work on Firefox due to Chrome basically being the standard. It’s annoying. And I do think people should still switch and try their best to stop using Chrome. Because IF we could get to a point where Firefox has a larger audience than it already has, the problem may end up stopping due to developers having more of a need to make sure their stuff is cross compatible with other browsers.

    space ,

    I’ve been using Firefox as my main browser for a long time. Sites that don’t work in FF are very rare. If it’s something I really need to access, I just use chrome/edge for that particular site. But as I said, it happens rarely, and there’s an easy way to work around it.

    ZenbyBosatsu ,

    That’s fair. Firefox hasn’t sprung up too many issues for me either. But it does occur and occasionally adds some annoyance if it’s a site you need. For me especially Firefox on IPhone is annoying to work with at times. Which is why I have other browsers on my phone as well. But for desktop, generally works fine.

    iLStrix ,

    I honestly don’t think I found a website that doesn’t work in Firefox for years. But I agree that it can be really annoying, I hope more people adopt Firefox (or it’s engine at least).

    As for your iPhone issue: Well Apple doesn’t really allow any other browsers on iOS, AFAIK it’s all just Safari under the hood with a skin on top.

    ZenbyBosatsu ,

    I hope people do too. I am a Waterfox lover myself and it works great for the most part.

    And huh, interesting. Good to know. Might just be a safari issue then. Idk. I for some reason thought that had changed, but could be wrong.

    h_a_r_u_k_i ,
    @h_a_r_u_k_i@programming.dev avatar

    That’s interesting to know. Maybe that’s why add-ons don’t work in Firefox iOS or iPad OS.

    Khanzarate ,

    iPhone’s Firefox is still safari under the hood, but without the support of being a native app on top of it.

    At the moment, it’s ok, I also have problems, but it’d be great if iOS opened up more and allowed a real Firefox browser to exist.

    ZenbyBosatsu ,

    I see. Alright.

    But yeah, would be great to see that. Maybe if they get through with side loading being natively supported things will open up a bit. Tbh I am just waiting to get my android fixed or a new android device or Pinephone.

    Khanzarate ,

    Yeah that’d be great. Then we could get extensions on mobile.

    I just use whatever phone is cheaper, and a family member had just upgraded their iPhone. Gotta say, it’s been reliable at least.

    sir_reginald ,
    @sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s funny that you say that, because all browsers on the iPhone are just rebranded Safari, due to Apple’s policies. So the web engine is just the same as Safari, or iOS Chrome or Opera or whatever. Literally the only platform where Firefox can’t have compatibility issues because it’s just a re-skinned Safari.

    Sheeple ,
    @Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

    I actually encountered the opposite. A site I’ve been using for roughly 7 years actually has massive issues on chrome that makes it unusable.

    On Firefox? No problem at all.

    meekah ,
    @meekah@lemmy.world avatar

    Which site? Just curious. I’ve never encountered any issues whatsoever with either browser.

    Sheeple ,
    @Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

    Chatzy. However the site is intensely archaic to begin with.

    There’s a lot of unique chrome exclusive bugs. Like the fact that opening the command menu or replying to hidden messages, deletes your chat windows contents.

    Or the fact that the chat would just suddenly freeze up entirely. GUI elements deciding to randomly not display anymore. Bold messages sometimes breaking formatting. hangups that require a forced reload. Etc.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Decades old Firefox user here.

    In the last week or two both Discord as well as Google Maps started not to work, they basically freeze up during/after they load, almost freezing up the whole browser as well (struggle to close the tabs they are on).

    The weird thing is they both always used to work great up to just very recently, and nothing else has changed on my desktop, except for the normal OS updates semi daily.

    (Speaking of the desktop version, on Fedora Linux.)

    LemmysMum ,

    Google already confirmed they were causing deliberate delays on YouTube videos for people detected using adblock. Extending the enshitification is all they have now, sold their soul to steal a buck.

    ugo ,

    Used discord on Firefox within the last week, no issues detected.

    Disable all your plugins and check if this still happens, a few months ago I ran into an issue where every tab would load for a good few seconds before actually opening, even super lightweight stuff. Turned out to be caused by an addon that was umantained because the maintainer passed away.

    Don’t remember which addon it was, but I can try and remember / search if you are interested.

    blueson ,

    I agree, run Firefox as your main and then a privacy focused fork of Chromium as your second if you need it for specific website.

    Personally I barely ever encounter issues with websites running FF.

    ZenbyBosatsu ,

    This is probably the way to go imo. And make sure that it can’t run in the background either. Since at least if your computer is anything like mine. Gotta shut that chromium based stuff down to have enough ram to actually do much lol.

    Corgana ,
    @Corgana@startrek.website avatar

    some websites don’t work on Firefox

    Are you sure? Is there a list of these websites? I’ve been primarily using FF for a decade and haven’t encountered any.

    OsrsNeedsF2P ,

    Same. Usually it’s a case of “the site is broken on both”, or a hard refresh is needed, so switching browsers feels like it works

    CmdrShepard ,

    I’ve had a couple straight up tell me I had to use Edge/Chrome recently.

    histic ,

    I’ve had some map sites that just refuse to work on ff

    redcalcium ,

    Have you tried spoofing your User Agent to Chrome with a user agent switcher extension? The site might actually work in Firefox.

    CosmicCleric ,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    I never had that issue, untill starting last week. Now Google Maps won’t work, for some reason.

    It worked for years before that, it’s a recent thing, in my case at least. Makes me wonder what’s going on.

    ZenbyBosatsu ,

    I don’t have any specific list. But I have ran into a few issues with Firefox. (mostly on my IPhone) In my experience Firefox on Mobile is just up to par with Desktop.

    sparse_neuron ,

    Last I checked all browsers on IOS are required by Apple to be basically a reskinned Safari.

    Rai ,

    Firefox on iOS is Safari under the hood.

    CmdrShepard ,

    I’ve ran into a few in the last year or two. I also can’t flash things like ESP32s (ESPHome) using Firefox for some security reasons, but this is fine as I’d rather be safe than sorry with my main browser.

    Anafabula , (edited )
    @Anafabula@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Unfortunately there really are websites that don’t work in Firefox. Not a nice list, but issues should be reported here: webcompat.com/issues?page=1&per_page=50&s…

    Personally, I have been using Firefox for years and will continue using it.

    Firefox also has a builtin list of overrides at about:compat

    oce ,
    @oce@jlai.lu avatar

    Can you list the websites? I feel like this issue is sufficiently rare to be inexistent for the vast majority of users.

    Rai ,

    People always say “MUH WEBSITE BORKED ON FIREFOX” and never give examples.

    AWittyUsername ,

    I use Firefox. If a site doesn’t work depending on my OS I use Edge, Safari or Chromium.

    ieightpi ,

    I’ve been using Firefox since the beginning. I do not understand any of the complaints people have about it. And I cant remember the last time I visited a website that wasn’t compatible with it. It was definitely before the pandemic and probably longer before that.

    s1nistr4 ,

    Almost every web developer I’ve met tests if their site works in Firefox and other browsers. The problem is when websites (aka Google sites) deliberately design their sites to not work in Firefox to get people to switch to Chrome

    alien ,

    Ive had website that require chrome work perfectly fine in firefox when I switch my user agent

    alien ,

    Ive had website that require chrome work perfectly fine in firefox when I switch my user agent

    MrMcGasion ,

    As someone who used to do web design when there were around 5 different rendering engines, I found having multiple browsers to design for was often a good thing. You could easily build something that worked 90% of the time on the primary testing browser, and hit a wall trying to fix the remaining bugs, but then testing in a different browser would reveal something obviously broken with your solution, and once you fixed that, would fix some of the minor quirks you were having a hard time solving in the primary testing browser. 5 was probably too many engines, and I’m thrilled to see Trident (IE) in the grave where it always belonged. But if you aren’t testing in multiple browsers, you’re making your life harder, not easier.

    vinhill ,

    You can file web compatibility bugs on bugzilla.mozilla.org or webcompat.com

    There are different ways how bugs are fixed. But someone might reach out to the page itself, find and fix a bug in Firefox or change the web specification if the incompatibility arises from ambiguity around the feature definition.

    Firefox can also ship an intervention, basically injecting code into certain websites to fix broken ones.

    Some incompatibilities can arise from missing features in Firefox, the web constantly evolves and the Devs sometimes don’t catch up. But bugs might still help, as high compatibility-risk features might be implemented more quickly.

    TheLobotomist ,
    @TheLobotomist@lemmy.world avatar

    Which sites are you referring to?

    Rai ,

    They’ll never tell because they’re not telling the truth.

    AeonFelis ,

    This is not as nearly as bad as the old days of IE6’s tyranny. If anything, we should stick to FF now that the situation is still bearable - before it becomes completely unbearable.

    corsicanguppy ,

    As a user of Seamonkey - which you’d know as Mozilla, the app that Mozilla the company ditched for being ‘too hard’ - I have to say no. While I trust they’re not as evil as Google, I don’t trust them to do the hard part of actual software maintenance.

    sir_reginald ,
    @sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

    why the Freenet logo and not I2P? Freenet is not designed with privacy in mind, unlike I2P which literally stands for the Invisible Internet Project.

    smileyhead ,

    How Freenet declares itself as a replacement of WWW and Internet, while what is does is delivering WWW sites on the Internet…

    yoz ,

    There’s so many post about Firefox. Mozilla should throw some money at Lemmy devs for free marketing.

    Barbarian ,
    @Barbarian@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Is it surprising that a userbase for an open-source online forum with no ads are advocates for an open-source browser that can remove ads?

    indigomirage ,

    I love Firefox. Love it.

    But I keep coming across sites that don’t function properly with it. Is this Firefox’s fault? No - Firefox follows standards nicely. But growing numbers of sites don’t, and this is a big problem at a micro and macro level.

    Chrome seems to have such a foothold that it is getting away with embrace/extend/extinguish and I think it’s a very sad thing.

    raptir ,

    This is an especially common problem on Android. I have found many sites whose mobile version simply does not work in Firefox. It’s very frustrating.

    denast ,

    I also feel their number grew in the last year. I’ve recently tried using Mull again (mobile firefox privacy-focused fork) after using Bromite for a year, and it was so unbearable I had to switch back. I’d say I had less websites that worked than ones that did not

    raptir ,

    Unfortunately tracker blocking can lead to even more issues as many sites have started relying on it for basic functionality.

    asap ,
    @asap@feddit.de avatar

    Have you got an example I can test? I switched to Firefox mobile over a year ago and I can’t think of any time I’ve come across a site that didn’t work.

    raptir ,

    The most recent issue I had was Birds and Beans “manage subscription” page so I don’t think you can test that without a coffee subscription. But here is a screenshot:

    https://lemdro.id/pictrs/image/e7aa3fda-4757-4468-a62a-3d4a46f579c8.jpeg

    I’m not sure why it says “nightly” as I’m on the stable version.

    AceSLS ,

    This isn’t Firefoxs fault though, is it? Just a bad Website putting arbitrary restrictions in place

    raptir ,

    Not Firefox’s fault at all. Just a website not following web standards.

    TheGiantKorean ,
    @TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world avatar

    I tried to bring this up as an issue back on Reddit, and I got downvoted into oblivion.

    I think sometimes switching your use agent to Chrome can bypass some issues.

    neutron ,

    So many tech minded people, but at same time, so many of us fail to consider others POV and priorities.

    JUST DON’T VISIT THAT WEBSITE! - sure bro, that means i won’t be able to pay the bills this month because the only traditional way of doing this is visiting a physical kiosk at working hour. Did i mention that i gotta work?

    Similar with messaging apps.

    YOU NEED BETTER FRIENDS LOL - trust me I’ve tried. i also need to send my resume using this app to whoever interviewing me. no, no email. yes, i tried teling that. no, i won’t be that guy preaching about software freedom when all i want is a fucking job.

    indigomirage , (edited )

    The first sites I really noticed it on were banking sites. Pretty much essential. Then I noticed more and more sites. Switching to chrome based solved it. But it really, really bothers me that I had to resort to that.

    Would love to just ignore such sites, but that becomes a pretty big ask… Sigh

    ugo ,

    Where do you live where banking sites don’t follow industry standards, even for web development?

    I’ve never had a problem with a website outright not working on Firefox, although in some cases features are restricted which usually just require a user agent change (like huddles on slack).

    Do you have concrete examples of websites that outright don’t work on Firefox?

    Patches ,

    There is an addon that does this automatically.

    Some pages load weird like a pop-up on mobile that should take over your view window is a side bar instead. Still fully functional but slightly harder to read.

    But you know what makes it way harder to read? Ads

    TheGiantKorean ,
    @TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve visited pages in Chrome without an ad blocker… Almost unusable, my eyes couldn’t even focus on what I actually needed to do.

    Patches ,

    I’m not sure if it’s better, or worse, than the cancer that was the dot come era. Pop-ups everywhere. Random fucking toolbars. So many toolbars. A clippy version of a titty dancer if you’re unlucky.

    dubyakay ,

    Make sure to only do that temporarily and only if it’s absolutely necessary. Otherwise just avoid using said website and look for alternatives.

    agent_flounder ,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    That was Internet Explorer 20 years ago and look where we are now.

    I personally can’t remember the last time I had issues with a site on Firefox in the last few years since I switched.

    kratoz29 ,

    Chrome turning into Internet Explorer was something that I didn’t foresee some years ago.

    Heck they have literally done that with Edge lol.

    rambaroo ,

    The teams web app was borked for me on Firefox at one point. Idk if it’s still like that. Also Google Chat or whatever tf it’s called now disables a bunch of features on Firefox.

    Still worth it to switch. 99% of websites work just fine. They basically have to intentionally design sites to not work with FF.

    Bogasse ,
    @Bogasse@lemmy.ml avatar

    Ah yes wtf is Teams doing!? Some arbitrary features are blocked on Firefox, like you can’t direct call someone but you can be part of a group call 🤪

    But I don’t think Microsoft’s online suite is a reference, most of it feels buggy or bloated at best.

    Deckweiss ,

    Makes sense since the browser microsoft pushes on it’s users is chrome based.

    Just spoof the user agent and it works fine.

    KairuByte ,
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Those are literally restrictions placed by the site in question, not a limitation of Firefox. Get a user agent changer, and set the user agent to the “required” browser, and magically it will work!

    Veticia ,
    @Veticia@lemmy.ml avatar

    When I was using Firefox I felt like spoofing user agent was essential to make websites work the way they were supposed to. I could loose some rounded corners here and there but it was still better that some features completely missing

    eager_eagle ,
    @eager_eagle@lemmy.world avatar

    Been using it for years, and the only few times I had issues was due to worthless websites creating artificial obstacles with an “unsupported browser/OS” page or banner rather than something actually breaking for being incompatible.

    yesmeisyes ,

    Discord and spotify web versions don’t work on Firefox for me. On discord in can’t connect to a call and Spotify doesn’t play songs or it takes a long time after pressing play for the song to start playing.

    ugo ,

    Both work flawlessly for me. In fact, discord on Firefox works much better than the standalone app specifically for calls.

    Sounds to me like something is broken or misconfigured on your system.

    yesmeisyes ,

    Good to know. I’ll try reinstalling Firefox. Both of these work flawlessly on edge for me.

    agent_flounder ,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.world avatar

    Interesting. I will have to try discord. I’ve used Spotify with no issues.

    space ,

    We should add another E… Embrace, extend, extinguish and enshittify.

    VicentAdultman ,

    Mr. Lahey?

    shadearg ,
    @shadearg@lemmy.world avatar

    “Eye am the liquor, Bobandy.”

    ysjet ,

    I keep seeing this sentiment on these posts, often with a suspicious number of up votes that don’t seem to correlate how many up votes everything else in the topic get.

    Literally the only place I have EVER seen this issue was a state toll road website, which was using a timezones that didn’t actually exist but chrome added (and documented on the Internet to trick people into using it). A simple email to the website with an explanation and the correct timezones name and the problem was fixed.

    Pretty sure a lot of this sentiment is either astroturfing, or people passing on astroturfing trying to be helpful.

    sfxrlz ,

    Yeah, I’ve been exclusively using Firefox dev edition for the last 2-3 ys. I can’t remember one site not functioning properly apart from the odd visual bug from time to time.

    indigomirage ,

    Typically banking sites for me. And a few others.

    Salix , (edited )

    But I keep coming across sites that don’t function properly with it. Is this Firefox’s fault? No - Firefox follows standards nicely. But growing numbers of sites don’t, and this is a big problem at a micro and macro level.

    Reminder for others that they can report to Web Compat

    indigomirage ,

    This is a good comment! I’ve reported to them in the past. A good reminder.

    Rai ,

    That’s such bullshit. People keep saying SO MANY SITES DONT WORK ON FOREFUX

    with zero examples.

    I see no examples. You’re making a ridiculous claim with no proof and I’m astounded at how many people believe you here.

    indigomirage ,

    I think someone needs a hug.

    Rai ,

    I still see only empty claims lawl

    jetsetdorito ,

    on desktop I don’t think I ever notice an issue, but on mobile it’s really noticable

    berg ,

    Give me examples. I’ve been using Firefox exclusively for over ten years and I can recall one website I’ve had to use chrome on. That was draw.io to get shared drawing through a Google drive to work.

    Alpha71 ,

    For me there are certain sites where the site icon doesn’t show up in my bookmarks. While not world shattering, it can be annoying.

    cmgvd3lw ,

    Is that moon a browser?

    brsrklf ,

    I think it’s that :

    www.palemoon.org

    I briefly used a version of that on a legacy application that needed flash, because it still supports it.

    andrew_bidlaw ,

    You are correct. I used it on older hardware due to how thin it is, but it has less manpower than more popular forks, so rendering of bloated websites, some of them needing their own workarounds coded in, can be slow and wonky. E.g. Xitter run, well, like xit.

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