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Is my girlfriend gaslighting me? (Edit: No, she is not gaslighting me, but may have some other issues.)

Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I’ll be there. I didn’t notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.

Later, I hear the door opening and went to our door to greet her, she was furious and refused to talk to me. I realized I forgot to turn my phone back from silent mode after work today. I told her that it is my bad, she still refused to talk to me. At this point, things are still normal for our relationship, she would usually become willing to talk after a while.

I usually go to sleep at 22:30 and she knows, so I thought we’d sort things out tomorrow and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night (later I found out it was 1a.m.) to her standing next to my bed (we sleep in separate bedrooms), and she began asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”

You know, the usual. I thought she’s just angry at me still and wanted to vent, so I went along with her for the time being: “I’d be very worried and look for you everywhere”, “I’d sue the city”, “I’d tell your mother exactly what happened and say I’m sorry”, and “I’d kill the guy who kidnapped you”.

She grumbled and asked a few follow-up questions, like “if you’re planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?” But at this point, I think she’s finding it difficult to stay angry at me. I tell her again that I’m sorry I missed her text, and that next time this happens, she should just call me to make sure I see her text, but she left soon after without acknowledging my apology.

I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text. Not trying to argue otherwise. My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex? Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinking her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facilitating bad person for missing a few texts?

Edit for context: we live in a pretty safe city that ranks top 10 in the world on low crime rate. Also, thank you all for educating me on what gaslighting actually means. It was 2 in the morning when I posted this, I did not have the energy to find the answer myself.

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah, this is seriously manipulative. I actually wouldn’t consider it gaslighting per se, which is a much more specific thing where a person is trying to make you think you’re losing your mind. This is just bog-standard manipulative behavior.

As someone who is in a long-term relationship with a partner who struggled with these kind of issues when we met…

She has to be willing to understand this is a problem, and even if her fears are justified, she needs help, because berating you and being manipulative by asking super loaded questions (especially in the middle of the night, wtf. she needs some work on boundaries, too) is in no way shape or form a normal or healthy aspect of any functioning relationship.

Be ready to accept that sometimes things like manipulative behavior come from things like fears of abandonment. It doesn’t make them okay, but it should give us pause and consider that people aren’t doing it because they want to hurt us. It took me a while to understand my partner was doing things that pushed me away because she was scared of losing me, because it’s totally backwards in my mind. It just means you have to consider the possibility that this isn’t because she’s selfish, but actually potentially dealing with other kinds of mental health issues. She still needs to work on it, and she still needs help for it, but please have a little compassion.

Be willing to go to counseling with her if you want to try to make it work, but she has to be able to see what she has done, show sincere regret, and want to change. It can take time, and everyone deserves that chance, but only if they’re willing to put in the work.

If she’s unable or unwilling to accept how hurtful and manipulative what she did was, and that she at the very least needs counseling, then you need to consider ending it.

EDIT: I should be clear that “putting in the work” means up to and including: getting a mental health diagnosis, getting medication, getting a psychiatrist, getting a counselor whose field is focused on helping people with specifically this diagnosis, and then working through their problems.

otacon239 ,

You might want to X-post to c/relationshipadvice as well. That being said, the only one responsible for kidnapping anyone is the kidnappers. And no one should expect their friends or lover to kill their kidnappers. It would likely get you killed in the attempt. On top of this, these are all hypotheticals.

Someone who is using hypotheticals that they made up in their head against you is more worried about themselves than you.

It is not my place, but this person sounds like someone I wouldn’t even want to be friends with, let alone date. Friends are there to build each other up, not tear them down and add anxiety.

frightful_hobgoblin ,

she begin asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”

Yeah these sound like tests.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

You’re probably better off trusting your guts, and the guts of people around you, than what anyone in the internet says about this matter. Including me.

That said: I don’t think that she’s either gaslighting or guilt tripping you. I think that she’s simply feeling insecure.

You_are_dust ,

I can’t tell if this is a joke post. Assuming that it’s not, there’s a lot of missing context. If she wanted you to meet her and you got that text, why didn’t you? Do you live somewhere that human trafficking is that much a part of daily life that this is an issue? You make comments like a lot of her irrational actions are normal things, which they probably shouldn’t be. She wants assurance that you’ll track down and murder a trafficking group like Liam Nesson and then switches gears immediately to what about the cat? I hope this is a joke post.

RyanLiu OP , (edited )

Context: I got the text but that the time, she didn’t know when she’d get home so I was waiting on a follow up tesxt with the time she’d be home (again, my bad for not making sure I can hear them), and we live in a pretty safe country, where even robbery is rare.

You_are_dust ,

So you’re saying it is pretty irrational for her to be so extremely worried about being kidnapped? Is she a very anxious and nervous person? It sounds like she was dropped off very close to home. Is she one to turn nothing into something like this? From an outside perspective, her reaction seems way out of line.

RyanLiu OP ,

She’s not normally like this, and yes Ubers usually drop people off right at the entrance of our apartment. Aside from Uber, she would also take the bus or train into the city, both of which requre a five minute walk through our neighborhood which she has no problem doing.

You_are_dust ,

Since she’s not normally like this, you really need to talk to her to figure out what exactly happened that set off this series of events.

AmidFuror ,

It's probably she was upset that he didn't follow through with what he promised. In her anger she came up with a bunch of hypotheticals to grill him about. The real issue is she thinks he doesn't care enough to meet her where he said he would.

Wes4Humanity ,

Hopefully

AmidFuror ,

Either she's like the rest of us and sometimes does irrational and dramatic things when angry, or she has an undiagnosed mental health disorder involving paranoia.

Apparently those are the options.

Wes4Humanity ,

When healthy people are angry they use healthy coping skills to deescalate and then approach the conversation in a calm and rational way. Regardless of whether this is a full-blown mental illness or not, assuming this was really her reaction, something is not okay.

You_are_dust ,

Possibly. Ultimately there needs to be better communication between both of them.

the_artic_one ,

She’s not normally like this

If there’s no situational cause for this change in behavior, there’s a chance she’s experiencing paranoia from an undiagnosed mental health condition. Look up the signs of mania (bipolar disorder), borderline personality disorder, and schizophrenia. If it looks like it might be one of those then you need consult professionals and family because it’s not something you’re going to be able to help her with on your own with advice from Internet strangers.

Take care of yourself, of she continues to behave abusively you need to get away whether this behavior comes from untreated illness or not.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

The way that I interpret it, OP’s girlfriend was simply being hyperbolic. I don’t think that she’s genuinely asking OP to kill her hypothetical kidnappers; specially given that, as OP mentioned, they live in a safe place.

Instead I think that she simply wants to be reassured that OP cares about her and her security. And then started playing around with the “but what about our cat?” thing because come on, if you’re thinking on outrageous scenarios, might as well think on them properly!

RightHandOfIkaros ,

If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?

This is a pretty massive red flag right here, IMO. I wouldn’t stick around any person that asks this question. If a person is kidnapped there are like a million other steps you can take that lead to the kidnapper rotting in jail and the victim’s SO not being put in jail for murder.

givesomefucks ,

Eh.

It could be just her going thru possible consequences out loud. Maybe intentionally to drive the point home about what could have happened.

Like, this is some real shit that women do always need to be aware of, and men just never fucking think about, because we don’t have to.

OP could live in a super sketch area where this level of vigilance is warranted and this shit could be going thru her head.

Like from her POV OP didn’t take the risk serious enough to meet her, if he’s not willing to do that, her mind is running thru where the line is on what he would do. You zero into that by asking big questions. And again, it could be to try and set in the possible consequences.

Like, her wanting to know what level of commitment he has to her safety. I doubt it was extrajudicial executions in her mind, and more Liam Niessons style rescue as a rhetorical device.

For a woman a partner who values their security and safety is important both on an instinctual and sadly still practical level. They have a lot more threats then the average dude will ever think about, especially when young and in the dating stages of life. Even married men sometimes don’t learn about it till later when they have kids their responsible for.

Postmortal_Pop ,

I agree with everything you said here except you’re read on that question. There’s a huge area between expecting your partner to take your personal safety seriously, and expecting your partner to kill for you. One of those is a reasonable ask, the other is a reasonable excuse to leave.

givesomefucks ,

and expecting your partner to kill for you.

Some questions are hypothetical or even rhetorical

And honestly on a deeper level there are reasons for women to suddenly go down these hypothetical scenarios related to safety, on a fairly regular basis.

There’s just too much context and subtlies that we can’t know for anyone to give a 100% answer on if a reaction like this is warranted.

sp3tr4l ,

Hypothetical and rhetorical questions designed to evoke contemplative but reasoned thought, or absurd hilarities, or a plausible future scenario are one thing.

Its completely different when its an absurd loyalty bullshit test that only has wrong answers.

Answer with loyalty to the point that it endangers your own life?

Ok, status quo.

Answer reasonably, or ask why such ridiculous questions are being asked?

Anger, grief, ammo to use in future arguments.

This scenario was extremely and needlessly combative on the female partner’s part.

Even if this person was legitimately traumatized by past or recent events, that does not make her behavior acceptable.

Pandemanium ,

… Nah. As a woman, this is not a question I would ever think to ask anyone, regardless of how unsafe I felt. How does agreeing to murder someone AFTER something happens to you help you feel more safe? It doesn’t, at all. Besides, she could have called him from the Uber when she didn’t see him outside. It’s not like they just kick you out of the car immediately.

OP described this behavior as “the usual,” which means this is a thing she does regularly. I would say this isn’t normal for most people to do regularly. If the location is actually not safe, then the conversation should be centered around “when are we going to move somewhere safer?” rather than “how would you murder someone if they hurt me” and especially getting into the specifics of “what would you do with the cat while doing the murder…?” I think this might be some kind of recurring “daycare” or maladaptive fantasy that keeps playing out in her imagination. There are certainly steps she could take to keep herself safe. But because she doesn’t, she feels powerless and then blames OP for her perceived lack of safety. OP cannot be responsible for her safety 24/7. That is an unfair expectation to have of anyone.

14th_cylon ,

and that’s missing the fact that the kidnapper usually doesn’t leave a business card behind, so he wouldn’t have clue who to kill 😂

brbposting ,

I hope she (out of anger) autofilled “the worst thing I can think of“ as an attempt to match for “one of the worst things I can think of happening to me”.

A desire for extrajudicial revenge is something I’d expect from really immature people. (In contexts uncommon for me, perhaps I’d expect it from those who’ve been wronged by the justice system, or for those whom the system doesn’t seem to play a productive role in their environment.)

Wonder if there’s a test of sorts that could reveal more here - if someone insults her, would she expect him to “defend her honor” at risk the personal safety of them both?

hendrik ,

I don't think it's gaslighting. Gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning their perception of reality. This is being angry at someone.

I can't really relate. Is it really that dangerous where you live? We probably live in different countries but I don't have CCTV in the residential area where I live. And usually in the summer, it's still bright enough at 10pm an people are still around and it's safe enough for women to walk home alone. At least in most places.

RyanLiu OP , (edited )

It’s pretty safe where we live afaik, also CCTV is everywhere here especially in and around the big cities.

Brunbrun6766 ,
@Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

So, London?

RyanLiu OP ,

Haha, our city has a much lower crim rate than London actually.

hendrik , (edited )

Yeah, sometimes perceived reality and the real reality are two things. And there are places where you can't walk on the streets as a woman. I'm not sure if it's about fear in your case. Or just because you broke your promise but there isn't any fear involved.

Anyways, in relationships general advice is to talk to each other. Ask her what's bothering her. Maybe it's a pretend reason and there is something deeper that's bothering her. Maybe this was the proper reason. Maybe she's a resentful person. Maybe she just had a bad day.

Unless it happens regularly or there are other factors to it, I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to malice or be a manipulation strategy...

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

I get that you’re trying to get more info to help OP out better, but I think that it’s better to drop this “where are you from?” talk. Privacy-wise it’s rather problematic, you know? [Sorry for the uncalled advice.]

sunzu ,

U ain't wrong...

While info is useful, it ain't worth breaking opsec for it

hendrik ,

OP gave some clues, though. I think the comment with "London" was meant to be a joke. But it's true that this kind of surveillance is common in Britain, some parts of Asia and some random big cities. And OP knows how to write the time of the day properly, so they're certainly not from the USA. 😉

GregorGizeh ,

Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol

In Tue strictest sense perhaps, but I dont think a criminal could make something of the knowledge that I am from Germany.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

As a wise man once said, “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that they aren’t after you.” Oh wait, that was Kurt Cobain, not a wise man.

Jokes aside, don’t assume that a piece of info about someone else is fine to share, because it is for you. OP likely has their reasons and that’s to be respected. (NB: this is coming from someone who doesn’t mind even sharing their city online.)

relevants ,

Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol

I am from Germany

If you were really from Germany, you’d never have given that much personal information up voluntarily!

GregorGizeh ,

Eh, at best you could create a shadow profile of me. I scrubbed the internet of my actual identity years ago, but you could probably piece together a semi accurate john doe of me from various bits of information I shared on here over the time.

Brunbrun6766 ,
@Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

Lmao it was a joke because London is known for their extremely extensive CCTV network

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

Then I derped. My bad!

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

My ex-wife would do very much the same thing and more and she was abusive as fuck. If this kind of thing is typical, it’s a big red flag.

givesomefucks ,

That’s legitimately not gaslighting.

And gaslighting is 100% real thing, but I always think of this Rick and Morty clip now when someone brings it up:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFM5E93NOF4

sunzu ,

Your girlfriend is an immature child and manipulative.

You can't make somebody like that happy. It won't get better either. You can try reason with her but maturity issue will prevent her from out growing it.

She will need a few more boyfriends if she is ever to to learn why this clown behavior is no good.

kbin_space_program ,

She is emotionally abusing you.

  1. She needs therapy.
  2. If she doesnt get therapy, sadly, the relationship needs to end. In this situation, be prepared to get a restraining order.
froh42 ,

I can’t relate as well, as I live in a city where things are really really aafe. But there are places where a women are afraid to walk alone in the dark, even for a few steps. (And even in safe places some people are quite afraid)

I’d be very careful with remote diagnosis. You. might be right, she needs therapy. She might just be afraid, because something bad happened to her some time.

The only way is for OP to have a good talk with her what’s bothering her - and then he may come to a conclusion. As of now, there’s just not enough information.

kbin_space_program ,

Yes, I'm hedging it off her making up a new reason, the cat, to stay angry.

And that he already has a whole sentence of things he knows he has to say.

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

It’s true that the place may be dangerous. However, if it were, (1) you’d think OP would have known that already and not made the mistake of letting her walk in alone, and (2) she didn’t have to start with the absurd questioning in the middle of the night. She could have waited for a time when both of them were more mentally available.

I’ve been in dangerous cities and situations. You either address issues in the moment or if it’s no longer an immediate issue, whenever it’s a good time. They sleep in separate rooms, yet was standing over him in the kiddle of the night, then once he woke up, she started with an angry guilt trip disguised as fear. That was 100% her punishing him so that he wouldn’t ever not make her the priority at all times again.

NeoNachtwaechter ,

My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her

Of course not.

The kidnapper is responsible. Maybe an instigator, too.

But not random persons who could maybe have done random things differently.

Contramuffin ,

Not gaslighting, and from what you seem to describe, doesn’t appear to be manipulative either. She just seems to be angry. Not to say that you can’t be both angry and manipulative, but I don’t see clear intent for her to try to guilt trip or gaslight you.

Gaslighting would be if she lied and said that she sent you a message when in fact she didn’t. i.e., lying with the intent to make you question your judgment and perception

Guilt tripping would be if she pressured you into giving her a gift as compensation for ignoring her message. i.e., taking advantage of someone’s feelings of guilt to get them to do something for you.

I don’t see any lie, and I don’t see hee trying to extract anything out of you. Worst case interpretation, she’s being a bit petty. Best case interpretation, she’s scared of being alone outside.

I noticed your final paragraph, and I would be cautious in general about saying that someone who’s trying to convince you that their anger is justified is automatically manipulative. That’s kind of just how anger works. People think that their anger is justified. Otherwise they wouldn’t be angry. Manipulation occurs when you start to feel like you are being used for their own motives.

Either way, you should probably talk to her about it. It seems like she thinks the issue is more severe than you appear to think, and that is something that should be discussed with her

BearOfaTime ,

Standing by your bed while you’re asleep and berating you isn’t manipulative?

Nah, to needs to leave, now. No sense hanging around to see what this escalates to. Not worth putting in the effort for someone who’s demonstrated they need to grow up.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Sleep deprivation is a form of torture.

This is absolutely manipulative.

AmidFuror ,

What about being overly dramatic in the comments section about someone else's minor spat with his girlfriend. Is that manipulative?

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Are you the gf? Do you know if they did? Or will?

Or are you just assuming?

Or are you suggesting that I’m being over dramatic? Cuz, she woke him up in the middle of sleeping at night. Sleep deprivation is absolutely a form of torture, and while it’s probably not sleep deprivation (yet) it’s absolutely manipulative as fucking hell.

I can’t know if OP is exaggerating or not, or if they’re going to or not. Yes that’s an assumption on my part.

As related, though, the behaviors described are heavily manipulative.

As related: she decided unilaterally when to have that conversation. And she decided to do it when OP was near-comatose in sleep. An altered state that being roused from does not contribute to reasonable conversation.

Walking away is fine, but it could have (and should have,) waited until the morning.

Now look at what she’s saying is the problem- he missed a text, but also wasn’t waiting to escort her downstairs. Ultimately- if this is legitimate on her part it’s “you don’t care about me”.

Now look at the fears she is expressing- that it’s literally unsafe to get dropped at the curb and walk in. While it’s certainly possible, the reality is that if it’s that unsafe, then asking what he’d do- and she jumps straight to killing?!

And the CCTV stuff- which OP has no realistic way of knowing or resolving.

Yeah; no. All of this is meant to put OP on the defensive, in a state that OP is not able to think clearly. As relayed it’s straight up manipulation, and if the most vile sort.

AmidFuror ,

Maybe he should file a police report for the torture.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

or maybe you could understand why it’s a form of torture and understand what I’m trying to say.

Hint: because it put somebody into a vulnerable, easily manipulated state. whether she knew it or not, she was taking advantage of that vulnerable state. she brushed off prior attempts to talk it out, which is fine. But she doesn’t get to unilaterally expect that conversation on her timetable. He gets to say ‘no, I’m not in a place to talk about this,’ too.

all-knight-party ,
@all-knight-party@kbin.run avatar

It's definitively manipulative, but people on the internet like to take something like that and then sprint to the conclusion that the person exhibiting the behavior is entirely knowledgeable about what they're doing and is nefariously doing it on purpose in order to control the person and keep them locked in a position of weakness.

A lot of people exhibit behavior like this because they feel scared or upset and don't know how to healthily express or resolve it, or were taught by unhealthy homelife that the behavior is normal, even if it's not. I think people in the comments immediately rushing to leave her and anyone like her behind will either find it hard to maintain a relationship, or should count their lucky stars if they're with someone that is completely healthy and knowledgeable about negative human behaviors and willing (and able) to fix it.

andrewta ,

Yeah this is manipulative as hell he needs to run like hell. Today. Not tomorrow.

BearOfaTime ,

Her standing by your bed and behaving like that is childish and she’s demonstrating manipulative behaviour.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex?

Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.

Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinkg her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facillitating bad person for missing a few texts?

She is trying to guilt trip you for missing her text by using emotionally ever the top hyperbole which is not gaslighting. Gaslighting requires intentionally lying about something that did not happen to make you question your own experience.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Still rampant manipulation, though.

I’d say at least on the level of gaslighting

lord_ryvan ,

Gaslighting is not a level, just a different technique. It can be done at varying levels of severity.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Agreed it’s just a different technique, but I’d suggest some techniques are more objectionable than others- both of these are on about that same tier.

maynarkh ,

Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.

Reading this I’m not sure I’d fault him even if that were the case.

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