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Panera now displaying warning about its caffeinated lemonade in all stores after lawsuit over customer's death

Sarah Katz, 21, had a heart condition and died hours after she drank Panera’s Charged Lemonade, a large cup of which contains more caffeine than Red Bull and Monster energy drinks combined.

All Panera Bread restaurants are now displaying “enhanced” disclosures about the restaurant chain’s highly caffeinated lemonade, a spokesperson said Saturday, following a lawsuit that was filed by the family of a young woman who died after drinking the beverage.

Monday’s lawsuit, which was first obtained by NBC News, alleges that Sarah Katz, an Ivy League student with a heart condition, died after she drank Panera’s Charged Lemonade last year.

A large Charged Lemonade contains 390 milligrams — nearly the 400-milligram daily maximum of caffeine that the Food and Drug Administration says healthy adults can safely consume.

RaineV1 ,

So, that is a ton of caffeine, but if you have a heart condition you really should be more careful about that shit.

odigo2020 ,

I get what you’re saying, but, for me, it would never even cross my mind that lemonade would ever have caffeine in it to start, let alone an insane amount like Panera has.

TheMauveAvenger ,

It’s called Charged Lemonade; that wouldn’t give you any pause?

subignition , (edited )
@subignition@kbin.social avatar

I would expect it to have caffeine content comparable to soda or tea. This 30 oz drink has about as much caffeine as four 12 oz Red Bulls

edit: It's not even behind the counter?? At least drip coffee, which is one of the only beverages that can exceed the caffeine content at issue here, doesn't come sweet enough by default that it's tempting to have a refill.

Crawford said if Charged Lemonade is going to remain on the menu, it should be less accessible to customers. She said she thought that it should be behind the counter and that it shouldn’t be eligible for refills.
“By virtue of it being part of the Unlimited Sip Club, it’s suggesting to consumers that it’s safe to have more than one,” she said. “And that is a big problem because it’s not safe to have one, let alone more than one.”

CaptPretentious ,

Drip coffee isn’t kept behind the counter because people can overcaffeinate themselves.

First off tons of places put out drip coffee in crafts. Example Pizza Ranch. Many restaurants will just drop off a craft of coffee at your table if you ask for it.

You can literally fill an entire shopping cart with caffeine at the grocery store.

SheeEttin ,

*carafe

Ender2k ,

And has had the caffeine content for both 20oz and 30oz listed on the sign hanging from the dispenser since they launched Charged Lemonade…

paprika ,

Charged with flavor? Charged with fun? It’s got electrolytes?

It’s not like stupid corpo slogans actually mean anything.

TheMauveAvenger ,

Charged with flavor? Charged with fun? It’s got electrolytes?

You kind of just proved my point. Stopping to think about it because of the name. At minimum I would not expect it to be regular lemonade with that name so I would want to know what makes it different.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Their point is that you wouldn’t stop to think about it. It’s branding, it’s meaningless. It doesn’t say “caffeine.”

Venti ,

It is also next to other normal lemonades like it belongs there and not in the “coffee” section.

CaptPretentious ,

Imagine just asking the employee there or looking up online or doing literally anything.

Nudding ,

That provides no indication that there’s drugs in the lemonade lol

CaptPretentious ,

So what do you do with your cell phone at night…

What do you call that thing when you plug it in to the device that’s plugged into the wall and then plugs into the phone what do you call that. And then when that process is done you would say that your phone is fully what…

Also if you don’t know something and you see something new, you do know that you can just ask about it. “This is called charged lemonade what’s in it?”

Nudding ,

Yeah man, it’s electrically charged lemonade. Good take.

CaptPretentious ,

Charged, as in energy. And you know that. You’re being obstinent.

Nudding ,

At least I’m not being retarded.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Charged could mean the flavor, not stimulants, because it is a vague and meaningless term.

CaptPretentious ,

So you flavor your phone every night?

A person can literally just ask what’s in it. You can do that every restaurant you can ask what’s in everything.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

You think the lemonade was electrified?

CaptPretentious ,

At no point in your life have you ever said that you need to electrify your phone. Or that your phone is electrified.

You know damn well charged meant energy. Be less a disappointment.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Well considering lemons have no caffeine to start, I’d assume it’s like a regular coffee or soda. Not 12 of them.

SheeEttin ,

It appears that it is like a regular coffee.

CaptPretentious ,

Soap doesn’t have caffeine in it normally but I’ve known if caffeinated soap for about 20 years now.

Neve8028 ,

It’s roughly the same as a cup of coffee. 8 fl oz cup of coffee is 96mg caffeine which puts a 20 fl oz cup at about 240mg and 30 fl oz at about 360mg. The charged lemonades have about 260 and 390, respectively. This is literally just a case of not reading the sign that clearly indicates how much caffeine is in each serving.

stillwater ,

What about the use of the word “Charged” indicates it has that much caffeine?

Neve8028 ,

I mean, it does help to read the sign when you’re getting your drink. The caffeine content is fairly clearly indicated.

…greenmatters.com/…/panera-charged-lemonade-lawsu…

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

When was the last time you had fuckin caffeinated lemonade? How do you be careful about it when you ordered a thing that doesn’t have caffeine literally anywhere else on earth?

CaptPretentious ,

It’s called Charged Lemonade.

Do you know what Hard Lemonade is?

Oh and gfuel makes caffeinated lemonade.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah, hard ____ is an established thing. More than that, it isn’t sold alongside non-alcoholic (lemonade, cider, seltzer, etc.). Gfuel is an energy drink, it makes sense that anything-flavored gfuel will have caffeine.

“Charged” means nothing. There’s no such thing as “charged cider” or “charged seltzer.” It looks like a generic "flavorblasted-"style marketing term to me.

CaptPretentious ,

Because it’s an established thing. That’s your defense. It’s an established thing!

You asked when was the last time you heard of Lemonade with caffeine I gave you an example and you didn’t like it.

I know of caffeinated root beer. Been around for much more than a decade. You going to make a federal case of that too because root beer isn’t any established caffeinated drink.

Also, because so much of your debate is it’s not a thing it’s not established…

sprecherbrewery.com/…/charged-lemonade-cans-varie…

You do absolutely zero research. But you’re more than happy to stand on your soapbox and proclaim what you think as fact.

RaineV1 ,

There's generally a sign saying the amount of caffeine it has, and gets advertised as being caffeinated. Yes, people with food issues need to actually read stuff like that.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

See this comment

blazera ,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

Why on earth would they have that much caffeine for a lemonade at Panera?

ThePantser ,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

Merica!

kautau ,

This is from their website

The NEW Panera Charged Lemonades are the ultimate energy drink guaranteed to charge up your day. Powered by Clean caffeine from guarana and green coffee extract, these caffeinated lemonades feature refreshing mango, cranberry, or strawberry mint flavors. These drinks are cold, caffeinated, and so ready for summer. Plant-based and Clean with as much caffeine as our Dark Roast coffee.

So sounds like they are advertising it as a coffee or energy drink alternative

Usul_00_ ,

Now. What about before?

burgersc12 ,

Apparently it is advertised like this… panera signage

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck, I’d stay away just for those awful-sounding flavors. Can’t lemonade just be lemon flavored?

reverendsteveii ,

/\ found the 90s standup comic

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I wasn’t trying to be funny.

kautau ,

“What’s the deal with caffeine drinks these days!?”

Seinfeld stand up theme plays

reverendsteveii , (edited )

I don’t like all these flavored coffees. Maple nut butter caramel fudge whatever. Can I just get a regular coffee?

Yes sir, right away. Here’s your tall black coffee

I mean, what’s the world coming to? I go into a coffee shop and I can’t even get a normal coffee for a normal guy

Absolutely, sir. Anyway, that’ll be $3.95 and if you want cream or sugar in your black, drip-brewed coffee there’s a stand over there

I’m just a regular guy who wants a regular coffee, but in this crazy, mixed-up world…

nilloc ,

Yup, and the next 2 bubbler things to the left are regular (though I’m sure insanely sugary) lemonade and iced tea. So if you didn’t read carefully you wouldn’t know you were dosing on significant amounts of caffeine with your lunch or dinner.

burgersc12 ,

It says “Charged” and specifically points out caffeine in 2 seperate spots on each sign. Imo if you don’t see that, it’s on you

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

We see so many ads every day that I tune out a lot of bullshit around marketing, I could easily see how a person grabbing a drink would only see the big ‘mango yuzu citrus’ and not think that was caffeinated. At first glance the label just looks like the calorie information, though it is true it should be the person’s responsibility to notice, but I could see a reasonable person making this mistake easily.

abraxas ,

I’m not sure what we need more than 9 distinct caffeine notifications in a 2x2 area, in a section where 99% of the drinks are caffeinated and have never been marked such, to suspect that maybe this is caffeinated, too.

There’s a fine line between “it’s Panera’s fault” and “It’s the girl’s fault” that reads “holy shit, what a tragedy!”

frokie ,

That was before. The enhanced signs are paper printed taped messages saying it’s not recommended for pregnant women, people sensitive to caffeine, and children.

burgersc12 ,

Right.

Supervisor194 ,
@Supervisor194@lemmy.world avatar

That’s fine and all but why so much? This stuff has 390mg caffeine, Red Bulls have 80mg. Such a weird thing for Panera of all places to do.

kautau ,

Looks like it has the same amount of caffeine as coffee. Guessing the large is 32 oz. That’s about on par with drinking 32oz of black coffee

abraxas ,

It’s about as much caffeine as a “typical coffee”, but it’s really about 2/3 as much caffeine as any real-world coffee. Dunkies, Starbucks, and Panera’s own light roast is 50% stronger per oz than this drink.

CaptPretentious ,

Per fluid ounce it’s actually not high. A 16 oz can of GFuel has 300mg.

trash80 ,

Venti (20 oz.) Starbucks coffee has 410 mg of caffeine.
stories.starbucks.com/uploads/…/nutrition-1.pdf
web.archive.org/web/…/nutrition-1.pdf

statues_lasers ,

You guys got 0.6L coffees, wow.

lingh0e ,

No body tell him about “liter a cola”.

garbagebagel ,

The cold ventis are 24oz

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

I used to drink five 24 oz. coffees a day, then one day I did the math and realized I was literally drinking a fucking gallon of coffee. Now I’m down to one cup (8 oz.) per day. I feel great and it’s nice to actually blink once in a while.

can ,

Red bull only has as much caffeine as two cans of coke?

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

Coffee drinkers drink several times more caffeine on average than energy drink drinkers. A large coffee from Panera has over 400mg caffeine.

abraxas ,

Because they won’t say “no” if somebody wants to buy a FucktonLarge size. Their regular is only 250mg.

Note, the number is conspicuously perfect that you could have one large every morning and still be within FDA recommendations. (400mg)

xtremeownage ,

Hmm… I need to go get some lemonade from panera…

Sounds good

npz ,

200mg of caffeine makes me feel ill. 390mg in a lemonade is insane. wtf

Case ,

I feel like every beverage containing caffeine should have its total content labeled.

Not because I’m sensitive or anything, I just need the biggest dose I can find in the morning.

Then again, I’ve been addicted to caffeine since child hood. I quit once, it was thought to be disturbing my sleep; NOPE! Just bipolar mania fucking it up.

If anyone is concerned, I’m on meds and doing well - I still might stab someone in the morning over getting in the way of caffeine though.

buzz86us ,

I really don’t get this lawsuit it is clearly labeled on the app, and the dispensers.

T00l_shed ,

It may be something to do without a proper reference. If it showed a large =3 cups of coffee you get a good idea, but stating a certain mg of caffeine doesn’t really mean much to most people.

PurplePropagule ,

It says “as much caffeine as our dark roast” on the dispenser. It’s a pretty solid reference imo. If you have the same quantity of lemonade or coffee, then you have the same caffeine intake.

T00l_shed ,

Saying as much caffeine as our dark roast would imply that the lemonade has the same amount as a cup, but it’s like 3 to 4 cups of coffee equivalent.

PurplePropagule ,

It has the same amount of caffeine if you get the 20fluid oz cup. A 20oz coffee at panera is 268mg while 20oz of lemonade is 260. I don’t think you have a point here.

T00l_shed ,

Yes I’ve looked it up, the serving size is this biggest culprit here. The large charged lemonade has around 400 MG of caffeine, for around 30 oz. 8 oz of coffee has around 80 to 100 MG of caffeine. Scale it up and it works out to about 4 cups of coffee.

PurplePropagule ,

I mean dunkin serves 396mg of caffeine in their large iced coffees. Just eyeballing it, their large iced beverages seem to be 30oz as well. I don’t think that the serving sizes are much of an issue when compared to other beverages with similar caffeine content at other restaurants and cafes.

thecarninja ,

I think this would make far more sense. Plus, I know that for me, the last thing I would think about lemonade is that it has caffeine content. Alchohol, maybe. Sugar? Sure. But caffeine? Nope. Having never heard of their Charged Lemonade before this, I think I’d probably be likely to make that mistake at least once.

abraxas ,

There’s a fairly massive sign right in front of it with caffeine content and advertising targeted at caffeine fans.

abraxas ,

It’s less caffeine than a large ice coffee at most establishments, straight-out. 400mg caffeine is downright reasonable. And the articles have been claiming her family’s side is that she thought it wasn’t caffeinated at all.

T00l_shed ,

Well I don’t know if I would say 400mg is reasonable, its the fda daily recommended limit. That’s around 4 8 oz cups of coffee, which is quite a bit of caffeine, certainly safe for most people of course.

abraxas ,

Well I don’t know if I would say 400mg is reasonable

It is absolutely 100% reasonable.

its the fda daily recommended limit.

It’s more of a loose recommendation than some FDA limits. They’re saying that it is 100% safe for most Americans to have 400mg every day of their lives. The comparative figure to 400mg of caffeine is 0mg of alcohol. 400mg of caffeine is health positive for almost all people, unlike pretty much every other ingredient in beverages at that counter.

That’s around 4 8 oz cups of coffee

For better or worse, nobody drinks 8oz coffees in the US. A small at a major coffee chain is 10oz. It’s a little less 1 Large Iced Coffee from Dunkin, possibly the single most popular drive-through beverage in the country.

Psythik ,

To be fair, Panera has always labeled the caffeine content of its drinks. Problem is that people don’t read the god damn label on the machine, forcing Panera to make it bigger and more obvious.

shottymcb ,

The staff nationwide were instructed to tell customers that it has “About as much caffeine as our dark roast” when asked about the caffeine content though.

Ender2k ,

...which is accurate.

Ataraxia ,

Because people are idiots. If they put the mg most people will have no fucking clue what it means and assume it’s a safe amount.

PurplePropagule ,

That is correct. If you compare the caffeine content per ml to most coffees, you’ll find that it’s essentially the same. Star bucks coffee, for example, has 410mg for their large cup which is actually more per ml than the lemonades have.

abraxas ,

It’s actually about 2/3 the caffeine of any of the most popular coffee blends in the US. It’s also only ~2/3 of the caffeine of Panera’s own Light Roast. That’s why they explicitly compare its caffeination to their dark roast.

abraxas ,

Ironically, this new warning is a lot smaller than the label, and less visible. It’s just CYA protections from a company it seems that for the first time in a long time, didn’t actually fuck up.

AstridWipenaugh ,

Their labeling clearly stated the amount of caffeine per 20 and 30 oz cups. Image: www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2023/…/amp/

Skullgrid ,
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

I had no opinion until I read this thread.

I’m a person that suffers from addiction to food, for lack of better phrasing. As in, I am currently going to therapy and a nutricionist and have won this battle a few times before.

I usually think sugar laws are BS, but taxes are a way of making things more “balanced without bans”.

850 ml of somethig should not have 14% of its weight come from sugar. That’s insane. No serving of something should contain 124 grams of sugar, except … sugar. You’re basically eating a quarter pounder made of sugar when you’re drinking this. Like, eating an eighth of a 1kg bag of sugar is basically the same thing as drinking this. Holy fuck.

I like coffee, caffeinated drinks, etc etc. I like science and technology and bizarre nutrition (protein powders, BCAAs, etc). I didn’t know what the “safe adult limit” of caffeine was, except that you’d have to drink several cups of coffee extremely quickly. There have been days , especially at uni where I’d drink 3 large energy drinks, and feel my heart react to it and think “yeah, that’s enough”.

The “warning” on the drink is completely contextless and ignoreable. “Oh ok, it’s got caffeine in it, 389mg, wild”. No wonder the woman just grabbed it and went on with her day and died.

Also, it’s a complete waste of advertising potential. If a drink advertises “ALMOST LETHAL AMOUNTS OF CAFFEINE!” you might want to drink it more for that reason, “Charged lemonade” makes it sounds like it’s got a hint of lime in it as well as lemons.

broface ,

Sounds like you were given too much stimulation as a child and now anything less makes you uncomfortable.

dutchkimble ,

I wonder how the doctors knew that she had this lemonade and pinned it as the sole cause of her death vs anything else that could have caused it or as a combination of things since she had a condition already - the legal discussion of this in the lawsuit could be very relevant for panera

sudoshakes ,

She knew she had the condition and avoided high caffeine drinks.

She did not know about the caffeine content, 390mg in the large lemonade, due to poor labeling by Panera. This one drink is 10mg less than the maximum daily dose for HEALTHY person according to the FDA.

Given the lack of consuming any other caffeine products regularly due to her knowing about their impact on her heart, it is not a leap to say the lemonade was the culprit.

Further, the lawsuit alleges harm, even if not the sole cause of death, from their product due to not making it clear to the buyer that contents has so much caffeine.

According to coffeechemistry.com, one liquid ounce of espresso can have anywhere between 30 and 50mg of caffeine. That means that a double shot will likely have anywhere between 60 and 100mg.

She bought a lemonade, without caffeine labeling, that contained 8 shots of espresso in caffeine. Cause of death or not, the legal culpability and reasonable expectation that this would not be in its contents is clear as day.

This will never go to trial.

LufyCZ ,

I saw a picture of the lemonade dispenser herw and the caffeine content was shown quite clearly

DaveDavesen ,

The caffeine content was on the label but rather small for such an extreme amount. Additionally, it was not put in relation to anything for 2 of the 3 lemonades, they only wrote the coffeine content in milligram, very few people can relate to this information without looking it other drinks.

For one of them, it claimed to be in similar strength as their coffee, which was a lie according to the lawsuit, as their coffee has “normal” coffeine content.

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

It’s not a lie. 30oz of the lemonade has as much caffeine as 30oz of their dark roast coffee. That’s a lot of coffee.

DaveDavesen ,

I have rechecked the image and the coffee comparison was for 2 out of 3.

You are right, that the concentration of the caffeine was as high as it is in a normal cup of coffee. But the caffeine content was given as an absolute value not as a concentration, so it was misleading. But you are right, it was not a lie.

Their text can be easily interpreted as an comparisons of the large or small lemonade with a large or small cup of coffee. Which is not an unreasonable thought, as 30 oz of Cola has roughly the same amount of coffeine (83 mg) as 1 cup of coffee (96 mg, according to Mayo Clinic).

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

“As much as our dark roast coffee” isn’t an absolute value, but I think there really should be a sticker saying “Warning: high caffeine content / approx (x mg small) (y mg med) (390mg large)”. This sticker should appear clearly next to the menu items as well as on the cups. Self-serve stations should probably be removed since kids are vastly more likely to drink a ton of lemonade compared to hot, black coffee.

I drank a few of these not sure if it was “as much as a regular coffee” or “as much as an equivalent size.” I didn’t think twice because I take a lot of caffeine anyway, but I shouldn’t have had to google it.

I can see how depending on the circumstances of obtaining the drink, one might not know there is caffeine in it at all:

  • ordering from a third party online app that doesn’t have all the right names, descriptions, and pictures
  • ordering through a third party proxy or having the item described to you by a third party (“anyone want anything? They have lemonade…”)

There really should be a clear notice right on the thing you’re about to drink from, of exactly how much caffeine is in it. No marketing crap (“it’s charged!”) or vague comparisons (“as much as our coffee”) suffices.

abraxas ,

How about a giant sign that says “390mg large” that everyone is just complaining that “how could she know that 390mg was too much”? Because it does actually have the number 390mg on the sign attached to the machine.

The funny thing in this case is that many people replying to this about what Panera should have done are naming things that Panera had already done in this case.

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

It does have 390mg large on the machines, but it’s easy to miss. I do think it should be way bigger and have way more contrast, preferably a black/white standardized sticker. It doesn’t have the mg amount on the cups, or if it does, it’s really easy to miss.

abraxas ,

I don’t pour my drinks at 4’ distance, and pictures at a closer range make the sign as obviously in-your-face as it looks in person (my experience). It’s approximately the biggest, most blatant signs I’ve seen on a drink dispenser. Not to mention the massive underlined “caffeinated” on the well menu, and the giant floor signs in front of it advertising how caffeinated it is.

It doesn’t have the mg amount on the cups, or if it does, it’s really easy to miss.

Per the sign: “30fl - 430cal - 390mg caffeine”

It does, and that is below the big ad-line about how it’s “as much caffeine as our Dark Roast Coffee”.

The real problem here is that they were REALLY pushing the caffeinated nature of the lemonade as a value-add, so it was (nearly?) impossible to miss. We don’t know the poor girl missed that sign (as it’s unlikely she did), and we can tell that fact because the family’s lawyer is also already pushing a second argument that the “as much caffeine as our dark roast coffee” is misleading.

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

Per the sign: “30fl - 430cal - 390mg caffeine”

It does, and that is below the big ad-line about how it’s “as much caffeine as our Dark Roast Coffee”.

On the cups. The thing that people actually put up to their face and drink. There’s a billion reasons why you wouldn’t see the sign on the dispenser.

The real problem here is that they were REALLY pushing the caffeinated nature of the lemonade as a value-add, so it was (nearly?) impossible to miss.

It’s not even close to impossible to miss. It’s really quite easy.

abraxas ,

On the cups

You mean the standard Panera cups that you use for everything from water to iced tea? Panera is self-serve.

There’s a billion reasons why you wouldn’t see the sign on the dispenser.

So putting a caffeine warning on the cups used for water and sprite is the right answer, in your opinion? Maybe armed guards for every allergen scanning your wrist?

It’s not even close to impossible to miss. It’s really quite easy.

Agree to disagree. A reasonable person wouldn’t miss it if they were paying attention. Do you have any severe food allergies? This really compares favorably to that because typically I get far less warning of an allergen in food than people get of beverages having a little caffeine in them. I don’t get “warning contains lobster” on my food plates.

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

You mean the standard Panera cups that you use for everything from water to iced tea? Panera is self-serve.

Yes. These ones. The ones for the charged lemonade.

This really compares favorably to that because typically I get far less warning of an allergen in food than people get of beverages having a little caffeine in them.

This isn’t a little caffeine, this is an uncomfortable amount of caffeine for most people who aren’t regular coffee drinkers. Obviously a dangerous amount for people with heart conditions.

abraxas ,

Yes. These ones. The ones for the charged lemonade.

Interesting. A lot of Paneras use and advertise regular cups with this (just look at some marketing images to confirm). None o fmy local Paneras have them. I’m not sure there’s a NEED to advertise it on a cup, but why not if it’s custom I guess.

This isn’t a little caffeine, this is an uncomfortable amount of caffeine for most people who aren’t regular coffee drinkers

The FDA doesn’t think so. But then, what is “Uncomfortable”? I can’t handle the sugar in a can of Coca Cola. I want giant “fuckton of sugar” warnings. And water. If I drink more than 3 or 4 of my water bottle a day I can end up with real medical issues. Giant “don’t drink to much water” signs on it?

The problem is that 400mg is not that much in the reality at the restaurant where it was purchased. It’s a coffee and sandwich shop, and it’s been known for bottomless coffee forever. Guess what happens if you get a bottomless large coffee and refill it just once? 800mg of caffeine baby.

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

The problem is that 400mg is not that much in the reality at the restaurant where it was purchased.

It’s literally up there with the most amount of caffeine you can get in one item from the restaurant.

Anyway, really boring argument.

abraxas ,

It’s literally up there with the most amount of caffeine you can get in one item from the restaurant.

That seems like an odd line. So this drink that’s advertised as being just as caffeinated as coffee has a bit less caffeine than coffee. News at 11.

Anyway, really boring argument.

Agreed

Lesrid ,

I know nothing about this lawsuit but if she ordered this from a delivery app then there would be zero indication during purchasing that it is caffeinated

abraxas ,

due to poor labeling by Panera

Having seen the labeling, I would say it’s the opposite of poor. They’re far more focused on the caffeine in this lemonade than I would have expected on first reading the story.

Either signage was missing, or she did the food equivalent of driving the wrong way up a one-way because she was texting.

sudoshakes ,

This is the point.

The location.

In question.

Did not.

Properly label.

The contents.

This will be a shock to some of you, but the practices of a multimillion dollar franchise across many states can in fact have deviation at one location. People’s experience at locations since the event, at locations other than where it occurred, is not a sum guarantee of what happened at the time of this incident and location.

abraxas , (edited )

This is the point.

The location.

In question.

Did not.

Properly label.

The contents.

Got any info that points to that? All the articles I’ve read complain that the standard signage isn’t clear enough and that “as much caffeine as dark coffee” is somehow misleading.

People’s experience at locations since the event, at locations other than where it occurred, is not a sum guarantee of what happened at the time of this incident and location.

I agree. I’ve been reading the complaints. They do have standard marketing for this, and the articles are attacking that standard marketing, not saying it was missing.

sudoshakes ,

Somehow?

A dark coffee has up to ~40 mg of caffeine.

This was nearly 400.

I would say being off by 10X is pretty fucking misleading.

abraxas ,

I get it now. You really don’t know much about caffeine or coffee, huh? Keep an open mind and read my reply carefully.

A dark coffee has up to ~40 mg of caffeine.

An 8oz Dark Roast coffee is approximately 100mg of caffeine. The same sized light roast coffee is closer to 150mg of caffeine. Panera’s smallest dark roast is 214mg of caffeine. ~40mg is a 4oz half-cup of lowish-caffeine coffee.

This was nearly 400.

Have you ever seen or held a 30oz cup in your hand? It’s freaking massive. In US terms, it’s a QUART. In rest-of-the-world terms, it’s almost a liter. Every beverage a fast food joint sells is unhealthy at that size (probably including their local filtered water). But the ONE ingredient that isn’t unhealthy in all that is the caffeine! The sugar or sweeteners are the real villains there. 400mg of caffeine for 30oz is simply not excessive. Is it a good amount? Sure. It’s about 2/3 as strong as coffee. You shouldn’t treat it as a caffeine-free beverage. Obviously.

I would say being off by 10X is pretty fucking misleading.

Per Panera’s own nutritional info, this 30oz caffeinated lemonade has about the same total caffeine as a large 20oz hot coffee (which is TINY for a large in the US, but you get free refills as Panera). You’re comparing a 30oz caffeinated lemonade to a 4oz half-cup of lower-caffeine coffee. But as I said, I think it’s ignorance and not bad faith.

So hopefully I’ve just educated you.

frezik ,

These are the sorts of stories and warning labels that make people want to buy it more.

Vytle ,

Haha i didnt know the charged lemonade was a thing before today. I was tired when i originally read this in the morning and immediatelly ordered it.

Etterra ,

Who’d have thought a place that can’t even make a bagel with cream cheese properly would be the one to turbo-charge the lemonade.

Seriously, once I decided to get one and they gave me an uncut bagel and little shitty single-serve cream cheese. Even I asked wtf and said I wanted it done they looked at me as if I were from friggin outer space.

broface ,

I don’t think the two are related, at all.

snippyfulcrum ,
@snippyfulcrum@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty sure it’s normal to put your own cream cheese on… But it would have been nice if they’d at least cut the bagel, I guess.

PoorAristocat ,

That’s ridiculous, if you get breakfast sandwiches do they just give you an egg, mayo, and bread? Aren’t they in the service industry?

ProtecyaTec ,

If you want something done a certain way and are not sure if they provide that kind of thing, you’re supposed to ask. Some people have their bagels sliced instead of cut, some not at all. Like, just ask.

Grandwolf319 ,

Why not just call it lemonade coffee or lemonade energy drink? Lemonade is not suppose to have caffeine.

someguy3 ,

“Charged” is definitely not enough.

arefx ,

Could be charged with anything, like fruit flavor, extra sugar, suggested max daily doses of caffeine for healthy individuals, ya know, anything.

Cannacheques ,

Boosted lol

variaatio ,

Whatever it is called with that kind of caffeine content you warning label it with listing of exactly how much caffeine it has. Well maybe unless it is named literally “coffee” and is plain brewed coffee and at that brewed coffee with the normal levels of caffeine coffee contains.

Ones frappe, whippazino also better have needed labels in cases, since given all they mix how the heck one is to know what exactly is the contents. Oh this is extra special “angry frappe” with double squared shot expresso, so exactly how much caffeine is that dear seller per one glass? I just thought you put chili in it or something to make it “angry”, but has literally multiple times more caffeine content.

This is why all the energy drinks atleast where I live have the ever present “contains high amount of caffeine x mg/100ml”.

You sell something like that as counter served item with no packaging label to read, well now your menu list must contains at minimum highlights. Something like “our special drunk (HC)” and then somewhere on the menu there reads “HC means high in caffeine”. Then obviously at the counter must be a full labeling booklet of “here is our every product from the plainest brewed coffee to our jumbo mega sandwich and special brew beverage with full nutritional information and ingredients”

Just like one can’t sell say a pastry in cafe with nut creme filling with out having a big marker on all the menus “contains nuts, nut allergies bevare”. Since similarly nut allergic consuming nuts can be life threatening, well for some people consuming caffeine isn’t healthy and must be disclosed.

Neve8028 ,

Whatever it is called with that kind of caffeine content you warning label it with listing of exactly how much caffeine it has.

They have always had signage directly on the dispenser with the caffeine content.

…greenmatters.com/…/panera-charged-lemonade-lawsu…

MickeySwitcherooney ,

Problem is I don’t think the average person knows caffeine dosage. It should really say “As much caffeine as four coffees” or “a fuckload of caffeine” not “400mg caffeine”.

Neve8028 ,

It’s the same amount of caffeine as coffee has. It literally says it on the sign.

LilB0kChoy ,

A regular cup of Cafe Blend Dark Roast Coffee at Panera, has 268 mg for a 20-oz cup.

Neve8028 ,

Ok so it actually has less caffeine then because the lemonade has 260mg/20 fl oz. Are you looking at the calorie count by mistake? Either way, a 8mg difference isn’t that significant because different coffees will have variations in caffeine content along the same lines.

abraxas ,

No he’s repeating the argument the family’s lawyer made. That a butt-fucking-massive megapint (sorry Depp) of this has more caffeine than a little cup of the lowest-caffeine-content hot coffee.

People are forgetting that she got a large, and if she knew it was caffeinated, they have no case and nobody should be bitching this “not nearly as strong as light-roast-coffee” beverage is on the mean streets with hard drugs like pop rocks and pez.

Default_Defect ,
@Default_Defect@midwest.social avatar

When you have health concerns like the girl did, these are things you really should be aware of on your own. Like I can’t have grapefruit juice because of the meds I take, but I don’t demand large signage on everything that might have some in it.

pokemaster787 ,

What it should say is “Contains 98% of the FDA’s daily recommended maximum caffeine dosage, do not drink other caffeinated beverages in the same day”

PurplePropagule ,

Sure, if you want to put that label on most coffees as well since the lemonade has the same caffeine per ml. Then you get to the point of having everything labeled so everyone will naturally ignore it.

abraxas ,

Correction, 2/3 the caffeine per ml of most coffees.

It’s downright reasonable for a regular-driver beverage if you don’t have a heart problem.

abraxas ,

“As much caffeine as four coffees”

They’d be sued in a heartbeat. It has less caffeine than a large iced coffee at the most popular chain in the US. It has as much caffeine as a medium ice coffee. Served in a cup the size of a large iced coffee. I’m sure they were very careful about being accused of the opposite of what happened.

broface ,
  1. It’s not coffee.
  2. “Energy” drinks don’t give you much energy.

I don’t think you should be picking the names for things.

Let me try: “Caffeinated lemonade”

Wow.

PraiseTheSoup ,

Any ivy league student that can afford to eat at Panera? So, her parents are rich and could afford to sue. Makes sense.

nodsocket ,

The outcome will hopefully prevent others from dying. Just be thankful they had the money to sue instead of letting Panera get away with it.

dill , (edited )
@dill@lemmy.one avatar

I’m shocked it took this long. The caffeine content in that shit is MIND BLOWING. When you buy a energy drink you know what you are signing up for. But a lemonade with 260 to 390mg of caffeine??? That’s pushing the limit of a healthy safe daily dose for an average adult

Nudding ,

Ain’t Nothin healthy about that lol

dill ,
@dill@lemmy.one avatar

Lol. Fixed now.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Why the fuck would lemonade of all things have caffeine anyway?

CaptPretentious ,

Because it’s called ‘Charged Lemonade’.

Charged, like the thing that you do to your phone to put energy into it.

Mike’s hard lemonade exists… Has alcohol in it.

broface ,

Because someone made it and people buy it?

Why shouldn’t lemonade have caffeine? Because you think it shouldn’t? Lol.

SheeEttin ,

That’s about the same as a large coffee, but nobody blinks an eye at that. www.cspinet.org/caffeine-chart

Natanael ,

Because then people know what they’re getting. That’s why. She wouldn’t have bought a large coffee like that

PurplePropagule ,

That’s why you use your eyes and read the sign that clearly states “as much caffeine as our dark roast”.

dill ,
@dill@lemmy.one avatar

Nah even that source shows most coffees are 100ish mg

Neve8028 ,

It absolutely does not. 100mg per what? They list different quantities of each drink on that source. If you look at it from a mg/fl-oz perspective, you’ll see that the lemonades are on par with coffee.

dill ,
@dill@lemmy.one avatar

Holy shit yeah actually. That’s a huge fucking coffee is it not? I mean 20 oz is huge.

…fda.gov/…/spilling-beans-how-much-caffeine-too-m…

8 oz to 10 oz is what I would expect a cup of coffee to be. FDA estimates 100ish for an 8 oz. I had no idea Starbucks served giant ass coffees like that lmfao

Neve8028 ,

20oz is pretty standard from what I’ve seen for large hot coffees. I believe that the dunkin large iced coffees are like 30oz(while hot is 20). Relatively standard sizes in the US tbh.

vxx ,

It’s more than a litre of red bull in one drink.

Cannacheques ,

Wild lemonade leaves woman very excited lol 😆

kittenzrulz123 ,

(not so) fun fact: they put it where they normally place non caffeinated drinks

Colorcodedresistor ,

What is going to come from this is Panera settles, and then sticks the charged lemonade behind the counter and enhances warning labels.

What may indirectly come from this is Solid Numbers on Caffeine overdose. and what is a safe amount and what is playing with fire.

It’s a modern day created problem. energy drinks flood the market, other companies compete and boom, someone died. I’ve seen reports that she had some medical issues and caffeine was like her version of a bee sting or peanut allergy , but I’ve yet to corroborate that narrative.

AstridWipenaugh ,

Yes, prior reporting covered that she had a heart condition and she was extremely aware that too much caffeine would kill her. The lemonade was clearly labeled with its caffeine content. It didn’t say it was extreme, but it was clearly labeled with how much is in it. The story that “she didn’t know” doesn’t add up unless she was just being wildly negligent.

Article with image of the labeling: www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajohnson/2023/…/amp/

As someone with a food allergy, I check everything I eat for my allergens. If I’m not sure what’s in it, I don’t eat it. And all that will happen to me is I’ll feel ill for a while. Anyone with a lethal condition damn well knows better.

broface ,

I’m sure a lot of people don’t know off the top of there head what is and is not a lot of caffeine.

SheeEttin ,

People with caffeine sensitivity probably do.

M137 ,

their*

You failing basic grammar should tell you that your opinion on this (and other things) is worth nothing.

broface ,

Lol, obvious troll.

Blocked.

abraxas ,

I’m sure a lot of people don’t know off the top of there head what is and is not a lot of caffeine.

“As much caffeine as our coffee” She was sucking down 30oz cups of it (still under the FDA safe limit) on multiple days, and her family’s claim is that she thought it wasn’t caffeinated at all.

The one possible claim is that in SOME stores the signage was missing for various reasons. That doesn’t seem to be the case with her store.

broface ,

Funny. We’ve actually been doing the same thing with salt and sugar for decades.

But overconsuming those doesn’t usually result in an immediate death. Just diabetes and stroke.

abraxas ,

I’d like to point out the irony that these enhanced warnings are a tiny sign that will easily be missed if you ignore the MASSIVE signage and marketing that remind the consumer that the beverages are caffeinated.

The silly part is that “see, it’s a WAaaaarrrrning” might hold more protective weight in court than “HEY LOOK WE GOT A FUCKTON OF CAFFEINE” billboards.

Null ,
@Null@pawb.social avatar

Now the sales for that drink is going to go up, due to human curiosity.

mr_sifl ,
@mr_sifl@lemmy.world avatar

I definitely want some caffeinated lemonade

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

There’s caffeinated lemonade and then there’s ‘10 mg away from the maximum daily recommendation of caffeine’ lemonade.

Th4tGuyII ,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

Supposedly you would need to knock back anywhere from 10-25 of those back to back (4-10g dose) for it to kill you... But people have died intaking significantly less caffeine.

Considering the average person won't know which end of that spectra they're on until they get there, it's not a risk I'd want to take.

subignition ,
@subignition@kbin.social avatar

4g is 10x the safe daily limit, you are putting yourself in danger well before that.

Th4tGuyII ,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

Yes - which is why I specifically said "for it to kill you"

You would experience a range of other symptoms, some quite severe, way before reaching your lethal dose - but those wouldn't kill you, at least not outright.

Problem is there is quite the high deviation in calculating what that lethal dose is for the average person, and given that people have died intaking significantly less (as I said), testing how many of those you could knock back is not something I'd do personally or recommend anyone else try.

SheeEttin ,

Apparently the woman who died had a caffeine sensitivity. She shouldn’t have been having any caffeine.

Th4tGuyII ,
@Th4tGuyII@kbin.social avatar

I suppose the question would be then was she ever aware it had caffeine in it at all?
I've never been to a Panera, so I don't know how they advertised that lemonade.

SheeEttin ,

fixturescloseup.com/…/energy-charged-lemonade-dis…

That page, from a few months ago, has pictures. The signs clearly list the caffeine content.

Sucks that she died, but it’s pretty clearly labeled, and if you have a sensitivity, you need to be checking these things if you aren’t familiar with them.

ZzyzxRoad ,

Sucks that she died, but

Speaking of having sensitivity, jfc.

Venti ,

Having the drink available in the soda fountain next to normal drinks is overall a bad idea both for kids and unknowingly customers (also ~400 calories for a lemonade is madness). The adjective “charged” doesn’t make me think “with caffeine”, it should be called caffeinated/energy lemonade in big font like redbull does, not with some abstract marketing adjective.

key ,

You can order a smaller size if you’re worried. The lemonade isn’t particularly highly caffeinated, it’s the cup size that is excessive. The lemonade is 13mg/oz, an average coffee is 12mg/oz which means a lot of coffees are higher, such as Starbucks coffee at 20mg/oz. Espresso is 50 and “energy shots” ten times that.

I definitely think labeling should be more explicit on presence of caffeine across the board (not just tiny text on a container). A limitation of size to 16oz (half the current size, same as a grande at SB) would also avoid the “supersize” effect here. But the lemonade itself isn’t really the issue imo.

EssentialCoffee ,

So get a medium instead of a large?

HubertManne ,

not now but tommorrow morning yeah

leftzero ,

Problem is that stuff seems to be more lemonated caffeine than caffeinated lemonade.

aubertlone ,

Fuck me…

I was just thinking I wanted to try some Charged Lemonade.

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