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NocturnalMorning ,

The lengths people will go through to stop something that hurts nobody, but helps many always astounds me.

solsangraal ,

they also want to dissuade (non-rich) people from getting educated and seeking jobs that they want to keep open for their own kids

MagicShel ,

It hurts everyone relying on debt and poverty to force people to accept inequitable exploitation of their labor.

cheese_greater ,

Its beyond fucking evil. Nouveau scourgeoisie

AmidFuror ,

Someone has to pay. Whether that is distributed to many or a few, a lot of people lose a little or a few people lose a lot. Someone has to lose something for someone else to gain it in this scenario.

_haha_oh_wow_ ,
@_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works avatar

Ok, how about people with more money they could possibly spend multiple lifetimes??? How about we tax billionaires so everyday citizens can have a decent education without being indebted for the rest of their god damn lives!?

AmidFuror ,

Sure. The billionaires would be hurt, but the pain would be negligible.

some_guy ,

You need better sources before arriving at a conclusion on this one. This is a topic that has been discussed at great lengths by people from nonprofits and activist organizations on many podcasts. I’m sure their info exists in written form if you look for it.

AmidFuror ,

The money came from banks and went to the colleges via the students. If you take the money from the colleges, they will be "hurt." They will lose something they had before. If you take it from the banks, the same. If you pay it from government coffers, then the government has less to spend elsewhere. If you raise taxes, then the money is reaped from whomever has their taxes raised. If you print the money, then everyone pays a little through inflation.

Someone gets hurt. I already said the hurt could be distributed. It could also be levied on people with vast resources who would notice it the least.

Can you summarize the podcasts and writings that suggest no one loses money when a loan is forgiven?

Separately, why is a clear statement of fact controversial? You don't have to believe that loan forgiveness hurts no one to think it's a good policy to put in place. So why the weird reaction?

TheFonz ,

I understand your point but there are many other things that factors at play besides where the loans originated. For example interest rates are appalling on many of these loans. These are arbitrary factors that don’t hurt the lenders. They can still make a profit.

rockSlayer ,

If you pay it from government coffers, then the government has less to spend elsewhere.

Not true in the US (and a few other countries). The US has economic sovereignty. This means that the federal government primarily owes it’s debt to itself, and only a very small percentage is owed to other countries. The fed also relies on a fiat currency, meaning that money has value because the federal government says it does. These 2 facts mean that the only limit to US spending is the amount of labor and resources available to the government at any given moment (please note that this is not true for state/local government). Haven’t you ever wondered why we have unlimited funds for the military but it’s austerity for everything else? It’s because conservatives in government want to hide these facts to continue pushing their agenda.

NocturnalMorning ,

If that’s the case, why is college so much cheaper in other countries? Why is it just the U.S. where education cost has skyrocketed?

AmidFuror ,

No one is suggesting the colleges lose the money. They already got it. So what does their gouging have to do with it? Even if they had to pay off the loans, it would hurt them. Maybe they deserve to be hurt, but giving back money you thought was yours still hurts anyway.

What a bunch of bizarre responses.

NocturnalMorning ,

What does their gouging have to do with it?

Everything. The point you seem to be missing is that college doesn’t actually cost as much as U.S. institutions are charging. They’re robbing people blind, and that needs to stop.

grue ,

Someone has to pay.

Actually, no: it’s an investment that pays off in term of expansion of the whole economy. Literally everyone is wealthier at the end than they would’ve been for not doing it, so in net terms nobody had to pay anything.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

Based on your upvote/downvote ratio it looks like basic economics is not very popular.

ThrowawayPermanente ,

You must be new here

AmidFuror ,

It's my mistake. I should have just realized that whoever is losing out on the money can just write it off. Bam! Nothing lost.

partial_accumen ,

The lengths people will go through to stop something that hurts nobody, but helps many always astounds me.

I have to credit some rando Redditor for the insight that helped me understand why these people do this. I’ll paraphrase because I can’t remember the exact prose.

Nearly all actions of Conservatives can be explained by their two implied core principles:

  1. All policies are zero sum. For you to gain something means I am losing something.
  2. There is a naturally occurring societal class-based hierarchy system, and you are required to stay at your level, never rising.

So the reason conservatives oppose student loan relief applies to both rules.

  1. If student loan borrowers are having debts forgiven (they are getting something) that MUST mean the conservative is losing something.
  2. If they had to take loans for school because they couldn’t afford to pay for it outright, then they should stay in their economic station. Forgiving these loans may allow them to advance beyond their current class, which cannot be allowed.
Maggoty ,

Don’t forget cruelty. If you aren’t in their circle or above it’s also about cruelty.

partial_accumen ,

Thats built into #2. If your station is low enough, you should expect to endure cruelty. Its your station after all…is their implied position.

ramble81 ,

Which number 2 blows my mind as they constantly vote for things which benefit those well “above their station” because they think they’ll be there someday.

lmaydev ,

“I’ll be rich one day and then people like me will have to watch their step!”

Eccitaze ,
@Eccitaze@yiffit.net avatar

Or they think that the people above their station deserve those benefits–they genuinely think and support the rich getting richer is a good thing, regardless of whether they’ll see any benefit themselves. It’s the mirror image of the progressive mindset of voting to raise their own taxes to help the needy.

grue ,

I don’t think it’s even that anymore. I think it’s just genuine fawning sycophancy towards their “betters.” They think privileged people deserve even more privilege by virtue of having “won,” even at their own expense. It’s sick and psychotic and completely foreign to my way of thinking, but I don’t think I’m wrong.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

You are wrong though. The reason we can’t understand it is they are being manipulated. Christians in particular have made themselves vulnerable, purposefully. Just go back to your Sunday school days and if you didn’t have them listen to the TV preachers in earnest. They are the sheep, they are being led. I’m not trying to be offense it’s just the facts. Even the trumpers who are church adverse fall for similar structures. Usually satellites of the church at large. Biggest facet I can think of is the gun nuts. It’s basically religion. In the 2A they trust. The overlap of the church gives them the same structure. Making them vulnerable to manipulation.

You and me too though. We just kinda sweep it under the rug. We let our phones run our lives. We feed on dopamine hits all day everyday.

partial_accumen ,

because they think they’ll be there someday.

Sadly, I think its even worse than you’re describing. They think they are at that higher station now and its rule #1 that is preventing them from actualizing it. As in “I’m not experiencing a luxurious lifestyle because Group X is taking my share”.

azimir ,

Not really as much as I feel we think. Having read more about Authoritarian mindsets, which includes the rank and file authoritarians, not just the leadership, they’re actually happy to be reinforcing the hierarchy regardless of their position in it. They’re happy to know their place and to ensure the ranks are kept in place. It brings comfort to many people to know that their position, regardless of how awful it is, is being maintained properly.

This means that they’re entirely okay with a dictator and/or an oligarchy as long as the people on the top are “supposed” to be there.

ShaggySnacks ,

You can’t change social class. Only I get to change social class. - Conservatives

Wogi ,

Fun fact, in the 1920s a high caste Indian man sued the US for the right to naturalize arguing that he was white. Arguing that he was verifiably genetically pure because of his caste and descendant from the Aryans.

The Supreme Court, 9 old white dudes, decided that he didn’t look white enough to be white. And so he wasn’t white, and denied him the right to naturalize.

'murica

ValorieAF ,

But but, MY tax money!

agamemnonymous ,
@agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works avatar

Look up SLABS. If you think something that’s being stopped hurts nobody, it probably hurts somebody with financial interest.

Makeitstop ,

Remember, the president is absolutely above the law and can commit a coup or order political assassinations with impunity. But he can’t make decisions about how to implement policies, even when congress gives him that authority.

meleethecat ,

The seems like the perfect chance to use that immunity. He should use it to sign an executive order to cancel all student debt based on the supreme court decision. Let the republicans object and force the court to either allow it or rule that the president doesn’t actually have immunity.

_haha_oh_wow_ ,
@_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works avatar

They left the ruling open enough that SCOTUS can pick and choose what is and is not an official act.

ThePantser ,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

Exactly, force them to decide on every order he makes. By November we will have a list of do’s and don’ts.

pixeltree ,
@pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Hard to argue that an executive order isn’t an official act, but I dount they care about keeping the mask of legitimacy on anymore

Omegamanthethird ,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

The problem is that you have to find a way to cancel it before anyone can say no. But if it takes any time at all, they can tell those agencies to stop.

TransplantedSconie ,

Exactly. Do it right now while they are on vacation.

Oops, sorry, you robe wearing psychopaths, guess you should not have gone gargling billionaire balls.

blazera ,
@blazera@lemmy.world avatar

Its open faced at this point, this kind of shit will continue until the rulings are ignored. The reason student loans got so much focus is because unlike other legislation proposals, student loans are entirely at the discretion of the department of education under the executive branch. Like how the DEA has authority over drug scheduling.

The executive branch has these authorities, the judiciary does not have the authority to rescind them, only congress can

grue ,

this kind of shit will continue until the rulings are ignored.

Say it louder for the low-information voters in the back.

TransplantedSconie ,

If the youngsters don’t see that it is the Republicans and Republicans only who are hurting them any chance they get, I don’t see how that education helped them any.

If I was a millennial I’d be fucking livid and organizing voter registration drives all over the country.

They are literally stealing any hope of a future before your eyes and if you think not voting is going to send a message, it is. The message is: Keep fucking us, Republicans and don’t use any lube.

conditional_soup ,

I think most millennials are pretty solidly left, while also having no illusions about the fact that the establishment democratic party are centrist on their best day and right wing on their worst (we can’t stop the fascists, that would make the people who don’t vote for us upset and they might continue to not vote for us).

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

who cares ignore the court and do it anyway

TheOneWithTheHair ,
@TheOneWithTheHair@lemmy.world avatar

Wow. The popups on Forbes are bad. I had one covering the lower third until another ad popped up, covering the whole screen of my phone. I literally had one ad blocking another ad.

Hotspur ,

It makes you wonder if it even matters if you stay on the page for the ads to pay. If it’s just page load, then they don’t care if you read the article, in which case the system is incentivized to have them only focus on headlines that will drive click-through.

Because I’ve noticed similar things, where it’s functionally impossible to read the content on phones, which you’d think would be a primary demographic, if you cared about presenting reporting.

_haha_oh_wow_ ,
@_haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works avatar

“wHy dO PeOpLe kEeP uSiNg aDbLoCkErs!?”

Got_Bent ,

I wonder if marketers realize I’m so desensitized to ads that I have no idea what any given one is even for. I’m just looking for a way to close the damn thing. If I can’t, I leave the site entirely, still with no idea of what product or service they were trying to shove down my throat.

Shirley I’m not the only one like this.

some_guy ,

Called it.

SirDerpy ,

I’m not a lawyer.

The article kinda sucks on educational value.

Summary:

To sort out a legal mess two circuit courts made with contradictory rulings about the nature of student loan repayments, the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit issued an order to halt the SAVE program’s implementation entirely, temporarily, until they issue a final ruling.

The order is likely legally binding in all subordinate Federal Circuit Courts with jurisdiction over: Arkansas, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and South Dakota.

Editorial:

It’s fucked, like a judicial system filibuster.

BubbleMonkey ,

Ngl, the more this happens the more servicers are confused about what they should be collecting and from whom, and that’s actually a win for the borrowers (not as much of a win as this shit going through but still).

For example, due to the slew of challenges, I’m still on $0 repayment through October and don’t even have to certify income for that. And who knows if they will actually move forward with resuming charges for it; this is the second time it’s been delayed for me.

I hope the system does get thrown into complete chaos if it doesn’t all get forgiven or at least restructured. That would be better than people having to pay for worthless and/or overpriced degrees, and not being able to do shit with their lives.

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