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bamfic ,

And what will homeless people do now that Boise is gone. And environmentalists now that Chevron is gone?

SleezyDizasta ,

If anybody read the study, which I highly doubt, you’ll see that this story is highly exaggerated. The actually study showed the sterilization in women went from 2.83 per 100k people per month before Dobbs to 5.31 per 100k people per month after Dobbs. For men, the increase went from 1.03 per 100k people per month to 1.18 per 100k people per month.

Here’s the study for anybody who wants to see it:

jamanetwork.com/journals/…/2817438

There is a visible increase, but the actual rate is a lot smaller than what this article is attempting to suggest.

Adalast ,

I didn’t read this article, so idk how they spun things, but given the title and the information you shared from the actual study, they sensationalized, not exaggerated. 5.31 is an 87% increase from 2.31, which is a rounding error off 2x. Honestly, in medical/psychological/anthropological/sociological studies the sigmas are never high enough for my comfort as a probabilist anyway.

SleezyDizasta ,

Usually rates that involve small raw numbers get swayed pretty significantly by relatively small changes. For example, Malta had a 3 murders last year, if that number doubled to 6, the homicide rate would increase by 100%. That’s a very significant increase, but does it imply that Malta has turned into a dangerous country? Not really, no. The increase would make it’s rate go from 0.561 per 100k to 1.122 per 100k, that’s around the same as New Zealand which is another very safe country. It should still be noted and discussed because there’s value in that, but my point is that these trends and swings in statistics can be pretty misleading if not put into proper context.

Adalast ,

Oh, I get that. I actually have a BS in Applied Mathematics and specialize in Statistics, Probability Theory, and Data Science professionally. I am well aware of how unstable thses numbers are, which is why I made the jab at the “soft sciences” and their acceptable sigma analysis points.

What I was more noting was the linguistic tic of OP saying that they ‘exaggerated’. I freely admit that I did not actually read the article and do not know what the author did in it, but the click-bait title was accurate given the data shared. So what was done is to ‘sensationalize’ the results. If we are ever going to get better and teach society how to understand when statistics are being used to manipulate, we need to be sure to describe it in a way that people can recognize one manipulation from another.

I would see an example of manipulation through exaggeration being “cops kill more white people per year than black people”. Yes, this is true, but it is inflating one piece of the statistics that ignores a lot of relevant factors, like the per capita rate, the proportion of stops and actions by police which result in violence, etc.

Sensationalizing is what we have here. Intentionally choosing words that fell the full picture of the statistic in a way which causes knee jerk reactions. There isn’t anything left out per se, the time frame is described, the change in the statistic is mentioned, and a potential causal relationship is proffered. Would "The overturning of Roe has caused a statistically significant increase in the number of voluntary sterilizations among young US Citizens’ haave been more genuine, yes. Is it catchy or emotional, no.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Part of the reason why I am getting my daughters citizenship abroad. One day, I hope that day never ever comes, they might need it.

remer , (edited )

How do you plan on doing that?

Aaron ,

It depends on the country, but many are just time based. We moved by getting work and education visas and are renewing them until we can apply for residency, then citizenship. Luckily we’ve been planning this for over a decade and we had managed to save up and plan… I’ve personally seen several people try to do the same and had to return to the US for financial reasons. It’s heartbreaking.

afraid_of_zombies ,

My wife holds dual citizenship and her country has many ex-pats so they have right of return laws.

Next month we have an appointment with the embassy with her country as well as the interviews. I also have them in a class where they are learning the language of her country.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

I recently thought about that, but realized that if America falls, it will totally screw Europe, much of South America, and probably Canada. Russia and China both have hopes to colonize Europe and many of the countries surrounding china.

In short, I think it’s best I stay here and vote for all those countries that depend on us and can’t vote in our elections. Keeps everywhere else stable and safe by extension.

afraid_of_zombies ,

I personally don’t plan to leave, because I am not in any real danger. Fuck yeah it’s great to be a hetro male on top of the racial-ethic pyramid. 10/10 would recommend.

It’s my multiracial daughters who could be in danger. We are like one bad election way from Republic of Gilead. So yeah I am preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. Have enough money saved up that I can get them on airplane out, keep the passports up-to-date, and working on making sure they got citizenship in my wife’s home country. As for what they would do when they get there my wife’s family well-off, is big, and loves them.

Olhonestjim ,

I’d get a second vasectomy if I thought it would help. The first one was super easy.

usernamefactory ,

Barely an inconvenience!

lost_faith ,

Super easy!

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Oh, really?

Klear ,

Hi there, hello!

redhorsejacket ,

I’m looking to reenter the dating pool in the near future and this has been on my mind, especially in light of Roe and my location in middle America. Would you be willing to share your personal experience with the procedure? Everyone says it’s very easy, but I gotta be honest, it makes me nervous.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I was nervous before mine, but it wasn’t bad at all. The worst part was the slight pinch in my balls when they gave me the local anesthetic. It took about fifteen minutes, and I walked out just fine.

I sat on the couch all weekend and watched action movies which was awesome. Ibuprofen was more than enough for the pain, and I was able to do light house work in a couple days.

Get some reviews of doctors in your area, but I would definitely recommend getting one if you don’t want any kids.

Fosheze ,

slight pinch in my balls when they gave me the local anesthetic.

Slight pinch? Brother don’t sugar coat it. It feels like getting kicked in the sack by a mule. But it’s only for a moment and its still 100% worth it.

For me, my vasectomy was probably the single most miserable medical procedure I’ve ever had performed, but the recovery wasn’t bad at all and I would still get it done in a heartbeat.

Ckjazz ,

I’ll double down on the slight pitch.

I never got the kick in the nuts, was back to doing stuff the next day. Even resting for the rest of the day seemed silly for me.

Fosheze ,

I’ve leterally been sack tapped by a horse and it hurt less than that needle. Of course as soon as the anesthetic actually kicked a moment later it stopped and I was fine. So it only actually felt like my testicles had been injected with everclear via a claw hammer for a very brief moment. Maybe our docs just used a different anesthetic or something.

But, yeah I 100% agree on the recovery. I went and got a few groceries immediately after without issue.

Ckjazz ,

Rough. It’s pretty reasonable to assume everyones experience will differ. But sounds like you got the short end of the stick.

Olhonestjim , (edited )

Sorry your experience was so rough. Slight pinch for me too. Worthy of a displeased grunt, but that was it.

Ckjazz ,

Super easy. Took 10-15 minutes, chatted with the doctor while he lasted my tubes away.

Honestly, so easy it’s stupid to not do it if you’re serious about it.

Burstar ,
@Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Super easy. I had a post-op infection that prescription antibiotics cleared up np.

Don’t consider it easily reversible. The doctors made it clear there’s no guarantee

Olhonestjim ,

If you’re nervous, they can knock you out for the procedure. You can’t drive yourself though. And not just any driver will do. They need to be responsible for you. So no taxis. I had nobody to help me out, so I went for local anesthesia.

I cracked jokes, which they said was a common coping mechanism for nervous guys. The nurses laughed, but the doc kept a straight face and steady hand. A couple tiny needle pokes were unpleasant, as was the tugging on the vas deferens, but neither particularly painful. Afterward I drove myself home to play video games and get high for a weekend. A bit of soreness for a couple days, but nothing compared to what she would have endured. I went back to work before recommended, and also masturbated too soon, but suffered no ill effects.

7 years now, zero regrets.

GiddyGap ,

It seems the US is truly falling into the hands of religious zealots despite a Senate and President who pushes the other way. Tells you how much power the Supreme Court has.

It also makes it very clear that you can’t jump ship just because of a bad debate. It’s about policy, not one person’s debate skills.

jeena ,
@jeena@piefed.jeena.net avatar

The lesbian woman got sterelized in case she gets raped so it doesn't result in pregnancy. That's ... wow.

Kazumara ,

If you read to the end, the article mentions that the first time Ferst tried to get sterilized (and her old doctor was being difficult) she still had a male partner. I think she’s bisexual.

Default_Defect ,
@Default_Defect@midwest.social avatar

I’d get snipped if I thought for a moment that I’d be seen as sexually desirable ever again.

Kecessa , (edited )

From experience you better do it while you’re single instead of waiting until you’re with someone and having to deal with the stress it will cause them when it becomes official…

jeffw OP ,

Why wouldn’t you be?

Mouselemming ,

It could only help.

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Dear young men. Get a vasectomy. You don’t want to raise children in a doomed future, plus it might do wonders to your dating profile.

Sir_Kevin ,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Best decision of my life!

minibyte ,

I got one a month ago. $200 out of pocket. I feel great. Cheapest $200 I’ve ever spent.

UltraGiGaGigantic ,

The 1% can make their own wage slaves.

SleezyDizasta ,

As it turns out most men and women aren’t weird doomer weirdos who spend a considerable amount of their lives being miserable online. Most people want families, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

ours ,

The operation is also much safer and easier for men than women.

Got mine done during a lunch break and came back to work afterwards. The insurance paid for the whole thing.

MeatPilot ,
@MeatPilot@lemmy.world avatar

Hard truth for folks to understand is people actually fuck because it’s fun and a healthy part of a relationship.

This is what happens when you have no alternatives left to manage accidents and don’t want to live like a nun or monk.

abbiistabbii ,
@abbiistabbii@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Oh they understand people fuck, and the people who want to ban abortion and contraception want people to have kids they didn’t want for various reasons.

Shou ,

Not just that, it eliminates power and influence from women too. More drop outs, and more discrimination in job interviews.

ours ,

The pill was a huge thing. Women could choose when/if they became pregnant allowing them to have flexibility in their sexual and professional lives.

Conservatives want to take that away as well as breed an army of desperate wage slaves ripe for exploitation.

Shou ,

Yeah. Control, control and more control. It’s no suprise women are getting sterilised.

Not to mention how much of a life saver the pill is for women with dismenorrhea.

binomialchicken ,

Blows my mind that vasectomies are the less common procedure. Got mine done cheaply many years ago. Super easy, barely an inconvenience.

Partner got tubes done recently (so that insurance couldn’t deny her for medically necessary hysterectomy later, what a dumb system we have) and she was miserably bedridden for quite a while, with the scars to prove it. Would have been expensive if she wasn’t maxed for out-of-pocket already.

Anyone have a sane explanation?

tacosanonymous , (edited )

Getting your vas deferentia snipped is tight!

Kazumara ,

vas deferential

Maybe you’re making a joke I don’t get, but otherwise: It’s called vas deferens

tacosanonymous ,

Autocorrect got me. Plural is vas deferentia.

Kazumara ,

Ah, I see. Plural is vasa deferentia though. You have to put the noun itself in plural too, not just the participle.

lost_faith ,

Wow wow wow, there is a whole lot of Ryan George all over this thread, good to see. He does skits on YT, look up - Pitch Meeting

Kazumara ,

Sorry, what is the connection to any of what we said?

lost_faith ,

It was the answer to the “Joke I don’t get” that I replied to

Kecessa ,

Toxic masculinity, all my friends that don’t want to be convinced have the worst excuses possible but most times it’s about not wanting to feel like a lesser man.

gnuplusmatt ,

That’s so bizare, since I swapped out to unleaded we fuck constantly and not worry about contraception. nothing makes you feel like more of a man than fucking raw dog every chance you get.

Kecessa ,

Doesn’t prevent some of them from doing it and just pulling out, they believe that nothing will happen because nothing has happened yet…

Sir_Kevin ,
@Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

No offense but your friends sound stupid.

Kecessa , (edited )

If I’m not mistaken I live in the place where vasectomy is the most common and some people still think like that. Talk to your the people around you and you’ll see.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Lots of people are stupid.

In many ways, our society encourages such stupidity.

jeffw OP ,

Women are treated as objects

ElmarsonTheThird ,

Super easy, barely an inconvenience.

I get that reference, but also I’d like to support the statement. I’ve sat on my couch for 2-3 days, frozen peas in my lap and just took it slow. A week later I could barely tell that anything changed.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Well me and my wife are thinking about having another child. Haven’t decided yet. So not getting it done.

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s completely irrelevant to the question they asked.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Go ask Lemmy for a refund

Lennnny ,
@Lennnny@lemmy.world avatar

On the flip side, I was up and working out three days after my bisalp. And my friend who got a vasectomy was bedridden for a week. I think they’re pretty comparable, it’s just a game of rock paper scissors whether you’ll have the easy or the hard recovery.

ours ,

They are usually not comparable. I walked home from my vasectomy and worked. I wasn’t bedridden at all and that seems to be the norm.

0110010001100010 ,
@0110010001100010@lemmy.world avatar

The number of young men getting vasectomies also shot up, but men still get sterilized much less often than women.

I got mine in September. I’d kicked the can down the road for years but finally pulled the trigger largely because of Roe being overturned.

Bbbbbbbbbbb ,

Hell yeah. I got mine done 5 years ago

rockSlayer ,

The only reason I haven’t is because I’m ace, so nothing’s happening until I intentionally attempt for kids

stoly ,

I’ll admit that I’d never considered your situation before and feel that I have learned quite a lot very suddenly. Thank you.

rockSlayer ,

I only recently started to realize that myself actually. Even growing up with LGBT+ folks exploding in visibility, it was always in the direction of allosexual folks. I grew up being conditioned to believe whatever I felt about sex should be ignored and that I should seek it out.

What I’ve realized is that I’m not sex-adverse like I assumed ace folks would be, I just don’t care or think about it. I also don’t get the hype around sex. That’s also a valid asexual outlook. Some day I do want to be a dad though, so I need the very same family planning resources that are currently being chipped away.

stoly ,

What I heard: you’re up to it if you’re in the mood but you’ll never go looking for it.

rockSlayer ,

More like, I will have sex with romantic partners if they want it but I won’t ever go asking them for sex. I’m completely disinterested in sex with strangers. I tried to dance around it because some folks find the discussion gross, but an additional aspect to being ace for me is that it doesn’t feel much different from masturbating. I still have libido, so both of those are just ways of handling a natural part of being human

stoly ,

Sweet, thanks.

UltraGiGaGigantic ,

I was broke as hell and the vasectomy was going to cost $700.

I finally saved $700, and when I went in they said “shit dawg, you’re broke as hell. Here is this program to make it free”

So even if you can’t afford it, try reaching out to your local planned parenthood. They know how to navigate the benefit system better then you.

dactylotheca ,
@dactylotheca@suppo.fi avatar

Any predictions on how long it’ll take for conservatives to start outlawing sterilizations for women?

NegativeInf ,

My friend with severe PCOS and who would never be able to be pregnant had the hardest time already trying to get a hysterectomy at 28. Even asked about her future husband being ok with this decision.

So we aren’t that far off already.

state_electrician ,

To be fair, men also get asked if they’re really sure by some doctors when going in for a vasectomy. Even when closing in on 50 and with three kids at home. But as long as they perform the procedure I don’t care.

Otakulad ,

I had mine at 42 and I don’t think there was much asking if this is what I really wanted. It was an explanation of the procedure and how long I’ll be out.

Day of, it was snip snip, have a good day. No need for the frozen peas on your nuts.

state_electrician ,

Oh, the procedure was fine. 40 minutes after I was called out of the waiting room I walked out and had zero issues. And also zero swimmers since. All good there.

But when I had the first appointment, he asked me if I was really sure and if my wife knew and was also fine with it. But I know that it depends on the doctor.

msage ,

Below 30 with no kids is much harder.

Otakulad ,

I can understand making absolutely sure that this is what the woman wants, but don’t bring in an imaginary person into the decision. That is for her and the person she starts seeing down the line and whether she wants to tell him on the first date.

frickineh ,

That’s why I hauled ass to the doctor and got a bisalp scheduled asap. I ended up getting them to agree to a hysterectomy this year, which is what I really wanted, but I wasn’t willing to take a chance on that not happening. I’m no longer in the young category, but I was only 38 and potentially still fertile (and way more likely to have complications from being “geriatric”).

rand_alpha19 ,

It's exceptionally difficult already for a woman to get sterilized. The decider may be whether sterilization has the same stigma/religious fervor around it that abortion has in that people will willingly waste their weekends off protesting against it.

I'm optimistic, but America likes to disappoint me.

someguy3 ,

TIHI. Fuck this is coming isn’t it.

Kaboom ,

Why would we? We’re against murdering babies, not for controlling women.

rockSlayer ,

Is that why Republican members of Congress recently stated that IVF should be banned?

hibsen ,

We all know you’re full of shit, but just in case you’re a useful idiot to conservatism instead of cynical grifter…

If you want fewer abortions, the answer has been obvious for decades — sex ed and birth control made available to everyone that wants it, which results in fewer unwanted pregnancies, which results in fewer abortions.

Your moron political group and its insistence on overturning Roe resulted in an increase in abortions. 2023 had the highest number and rate in literally decades. So if you’re dumb enough to think that’s “murdering babies,” then congrats. The people you vote for increased the body count.

afraid_of_zombies ,

If I were pregnant (and presumably had a uterus) I would probably be more likely to seek an abortion knowing that there is now a greater chance I would die giving birth then before.

Before: ok every pregnancy is risky as well as birth there is a small but possible chance things could go badly for me but medical science will do what is required for me to survive including ending the pregnancy even at the last second.

Now: if I need an abortion later I won’t be able to get one and will die. I better go to a state where it is legal and get it done now.

OhStopYellingAtMe ,
@OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world avatar

An embryo is not a baby. Nobody is getting murdered when a pregnancy is terminated.

Honytawk ,

Then why are you also against birth control?

Kaboom ,

Im not, unless you think abortion is birth control

rand_alpha19 ,

If you're going to speak for all conservatives, you're also going to take responsibility for all of their beliefs and decision-making, like the desire to outlaw contraceptives. If you don't want that, don't speak for others.

Honytawk ,

Then why are you also against birth control?

afraid_of_zombies ,

Whatever you tell yourself at night so you can sleep.

ApathyTree , (edited )
@ApathyTree@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Honestly it’s so difficult to get done as it is that they don’t even need to outlaw. It’s virtually unobtainable for most women unless they already have “enough” kids, whatever that means to a specific doctor, or they travel to find a willing doctor.

It took me 8 years to get it done because I’ve never reproduced (childfree by choice). And I’m one of the easier stories. I got it done at 27, in 2015, and while some doctors are more willing now, most aren’t. Especially in conservative areas.

All they have to do is keep making doctors scared to offer proper reproductive care, make it risky and they stop going into that field. You don’t need to make it illegal, just impossible. Rich white people will still be able to choose, so they don’t care.

I had to deal with a whole bunch of people asking me hypothetical questions. What if you regret it? (what if I regret having them?), what about your future partner? (If they are right for me they also don’t want kids, and I don’t plan to get married anyway). What if you change your mind? (I will adopt if that happens. I don’t believe sharing my junk genetics is important, and the chances of issues are high anyway since I’m also broken, and there are plenty of not-infant kids who need homes if I get maternal, but kids under 5 aren’t my jam and probably never will be, and I’m probably too negligent to raise them right anyway). Ultimately they couldn’t argue with my logic but it took years of finding the right doctors getting the right consultations, etc.

Shou ,

They are already trying to ban contraceptives. Cancer is what they are.

afraid_of_zombies ,

I am going with a while. They just don’t change their minds quickly and get distracted easily. It took them almost half a century to get abortion banned in a few states, only 2 of which have any real population size.

Sure eventually they will grok on that abortion was the last resort option out of many tools but not overnight. Then even when they do they have to come up with good arguments to hide their goals. Which again will take time.

Lennnny ,
@Lennnny@lemmy.world avatar

It’s already super hard. I was lucky and found a doctor who understood, but I’m not young. People in their 20s face a whole bunch of bullshit, enough to get in the way and prevent them having the procedure. It’s fucked.

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