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afraid_of_zombies ,

Humanity: through cooperation and science we have destroyed a problem. The foe that held dominance over us is dead at our feet.

Also Humanity: let’s find a way to bring back that problem for reasons that are not clear to us.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

My vaccination for chickenpox was being forced to hang out with kids that had chickenpox so I, too, would get chickenpox.

Shit sucked. I still have scars on my arms from that shit.

Retrograde ,
@Retrograde@lemmy.world avatar

Meanwhile I got vaccinated and one day I went to one of those “chickenpox sharing parties” and all the kids got it except for me, so the vaccine definitely works lol

phoenixz ,

Make vaccines obligatory. Take people kicking and screaming if you have to, don’t care. The entire bullshit line “but muh rights” has nothing to do with this, you don’t have the right to make the world a worse place, you don’t have the right to risk other people’s lives.

Make vaccines obligatory, exceptions only for those that have real and supported medical reasons like auto immune diseases.

If you don’t, you get fine, jailed, and vaccinated anyway.

Ah, that feels good writing that down.

TBi ,

They can have their rights, just in this case they have the right to go somewhere else and not endanger our kids!

phoenixz ,

Going somewhere else won’t solve the issue. Vaccinate, period, end of discussion

TBi ,

I know but if everyone stands by the rules then they’ll only find refuge in the back end of no where. Then they can’t hurt anyone else.

Maybe put a warning on that town for others. “Biohazard zone, enter at own risk”.

BTW I do agree your way is the better option! Everyone should be vaccinated unless there is a VALID medical reason not to.

phoenixz ,

Well yeah, there are valid medical reasons why you can’t vaccinate. typically you’re quite I’ll by then and actually NEED everyone else to vaccinate to avoid you getting sick from bullshit preventable diseases.

AA5B ,

Is Chicken Pox even a required vaccine?

That vaccine is new enough that there are still a lot of us that pre-dated it, plus the article did talk about immigration from places without a program.

Which leads to why is there a separate Shingles vaccine? I thought Shingles was Chicken Pox that hibernated your whole life and may manifest differently. So, why wouldn’t it be the same vaccine? When kids who were vaccinated against Chicken Pox grow up, will there be any more Shingles? Will there be any need for a Shibgles vaccine?

TokenBoomer ,

There is precedent for this.

Case ,

There are people who legitimately can’t take some vaccines for legit medical reasons. For example, I worked in a hospital and was required to get an annual flu shot and it was always an issue. Why? I’m epileptic, and it could trigger a seizure. I never had an issue though, and fought to get the vaccine. Only missed one year with a charge nurse who wouldn’t risk it. I then went and got it on my own. Hospital acquired infections are no joke, and that applies to the staff as well as patients.

But other than that, I agree.

phoenixz ,

That’s why I said with exceptions for those that have legitimate medical reasons, doctors should have to sign off on that.

And quickly for those that think “ooohhh, I’m a doctor and I’m antivaxxer, I can sign” (and yeah, those exist unfortunately) you wouldn’t be the first one to go to jail for that, though as far as om concerned, if you mess with human safety because of your conspiracy beliefs, you can go to jail for 20 years instead of 2.

3volver ,

Thankfully those who got the vaccine are mostly protected. Sadly it’s always the children who suffer from their shitty parents. Looking at it optimistically, this is a small part of the population.

RebekahWSD ,
@RebekahWSD@lemmy.world avatar

I’m so happy there is a chickenpox vaccine! I was at the edge of that, getting it before it was available. It was hell.

It was more hell for my mother who had never gotten chickenpox as a child. So had it as an adult. Agony! And have to deal with sick twins!

MyOpinion ,

There seems to be a lot of morons in NYC.

metaStatic ,

always has been

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

If 10% of the people living in NYC were morons, it would be more than the populations of five states.

Raxiel ,

As someone from a part of the world where the medical consensus is against mass vaccination against chickenpox, it’s weird to see it discussed in the same terms as Measles or COVID.

I got my youngest jabbed for it because lockdown meant they didn’t get it as a toddler like most kids I knew of growing up, when it’s usually an irritating but short illness and I was concerned they might somehow make it to adulthood without encountering it, when it actually becomes a lot more harmful.
That was unfounded, since it’s going round all the young uns right now. Still, we’re both glad they won’t have to experience the itchy spots, although jealousy over friends who had a few days off school was expressed.

QualifiedKitten ,

I was curious what the arguments against mass chicken pox vaccination are, and it seems the thinking is changing, at least in the UK.

bbc.com/…/20240229-why-dont-some-countries-vaccin…

What I still don’t understand though is if the argument against mass vaccinating children is that sick children may effectively act as a booster for adults, why not just recommend an actual booster for adults?

Raxiel ,

My understanding is , besides cost, the virus is just so contagious, that it’s an all or nothing proposal.
Vaccination is always better for the individual, but for the “herd” it’s actually worse unless you can get almost everyone at once. That would have been hard enough before that arsehole Wakefield and even moreso now.

But it’s a numbers game. Our doctors looked at the statistics and made a recommendation when the vaccine became available, but now there is actual data on a generation of it’s use in other countries to add to that analysis. Maybe that will lead to a change in policy, maybe it will just affirm it. If a change is deemed to be worth it in the long run, the transition period would be difficult.

foggy ,

😮

sik0fewl ,

Back in my day we got chickenpox and we liked it.

scutiger ,

Back in my day, our parents made us get it, and it suckd pretty bad.

ouRKaoS ,

Yup. You got to suffer and itch for a week while bathing in oatmeal and coating yourself in calamine lotion.

sik0fewl ,

Sooo much calamine lotion.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

I’ll never forget how it felt when they were popping, even over 40 years later.

wintermute_oregon ,

Back in my day our parents had parties for chicken pox. The older you get, the worse it is.

There was no vaccine when I was a child.

MajesticSloth ,
@MajesticSloth@lemmy.world avatar

I got it from my sister as a kid. I felt fine. She is six years older and was pretty bad with it.

wintermute_oregon ,

My brother caught it first. He developed keloids from it. I was maybe 6 or 7 at the time. I had to wear mittens on my hands till it healed.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Makes me feel like a relic that there was no vaccine for it when I was a kid. “Back in my day there was no vaccine for polio!”

son_named_bort ,

I didn’t like it. 0/10 would not recommend.

tootoughtoremember ,

Had to look up the date of the vaccine, looks like it became commercially available in 1984, and licensed in America by 1995. If you’re 30-40+, you were probably forced to have it as a kid.

sik0fewl , (edited )

I don’t think I’ve ever had the vaccine. I did have chickenpox before 1995.

Canadian_anarchist ,
@Canadian_anarchist@lemmy.ca avatar

People who had chickenpox as children are at risk of getting shingles in later adulthood, which is supposedly awful and very painful. There’s not much to like about that.

sik0fewl ,

As others have already noted, vaccination wasn’t an option and parents would get their children chickenpox on purpose when they were young, because it can be much worse when you get older.

xmunk ,

Fuck antivaxxers, unless there’s a demonstrated prior allergic reaction these fuckers should pay an extra tax just for being alive.

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

I don’t think that avoiding vaccines is a very good idea, but I only really care about it to the extent that it’s a risk to other people.

With COVID-19, there’s a major risk in that a dangerous disease is rapidly spreading and there’s a major concern that hospitals may get overwhelmed, leading to death rates spiking. Not being vaccinated was a serious risk to other people.

In this case, according to the article, only 1.4% of the people involved had been fully-vaccinated. Even if every single case was a result of an infection from someone who wasn’t vaccinated, virtually all of the people who are being hurt are either not vaccinated or only partially-vaccinated. There is no risk of hospitals being overwhelmed.

It’s not zero-impact on other people, but that impact is pretty limited in this case.

In general, my take is that people should be entitled to a warning, but if they still want to do something to themselves that is a really bad idea and the impact is pretty much on them, well…

Neato ,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

, but I only really care about it to the extent that it’s a risk to other people.

It’s almost always a risk to other people. I can’t think of a vaccine that is for a non-communicable disease. Not getting vaccinated means you can become a carrier or get sick and spread the illness. This means that herd immunity is lowered and people who can’t get the vaccine, or those who did but whose bodies didn’t adapt to it, are vulnerable to that person spreading it. Not getting vaccinated can mean you are liable (not legally) for other people’s deaths!

Traister101 ,

It’s almost always a risk to other people. I can’t think of a vaccine that is for a non-communicable disease.

Tetanus? Least I didn’t think that was contagious

scutiger ,

A chickenpox infection lingers in the body and can surface years later as shingles, which can be debilitating, especially for older adults. Having personally had shingles as a teenager when it’s not dangerous, I can assure you that you don’t want to get it because someone else refused to get vaccinated. When I had it, vaccines for chickenpox and shingles didn’t exist yet.

I can’t really endorse literally forcing vaccinations, but penalties for not being vaccinated are ok in my book.

StaySquared ,

Why would you vaccinate against chickenpox, unless you mean for adults? Children should just be exposed to it.

And I’m not going to pay any penalty for refusing to put some research chemical into my body.

scutiger ,

The chickenpox virus persists in your body and can surface decades later as shingles. Look up what that experience is like if you want. I can assure you it’s not pleasant. Once you get that, there’s no getting rid of it. Children should NOT be made to purposely catch chickenpox. It puts them at rsignificant risk of debilitating disease later on.

One vaccine is effective at preventing both, and there’s no real reason not to get it unless you’re allergic to the ingredients.

StaySquared ,

I guess you’re right. It would be more friendly to vaccinate against chicken pox than to catch chicken pox and be home for two weeks straight. Then the possible shingles bit later on in life.

stembolts , (edited )

.

maniii ,

I got the smallpox vaccine, so I went through that. Hence my immunity to other cowpox, chickenpox etc.

Varicella-Zoster Virus (Chickenpox) is linked to lifelong shingles flareups decades later and cannot be eliminated.

A LOT of people seem ignorant about this recent medical fact. Its important and get vaccinated!

cedarmesa ,
@cedarmesa@lemmy.world avatar

No

OldWoodFrame ,

In general, my take is that people should be entitled to a warning, but if they still want to do something to themselves that is a really bad idea and the impact is pretty much on them, well…

This literally is the status quo.

The problem is that the impact is not only on them. There are people who are immunocompromised, particularly the elderly and cancer patients undergoing chemo, and children too young to get various vaccines, and they rely on herd immunity to avoid getting these diseases that might kill them or get them seriously ill or complicate their medical situation. So it’s specifically societies most vulnerable populations that are harmed, which is bad, not to mention the possibility that with enough spread the viruses could mutate and get around vaccines which would threaten everyone else.

And then you have to weigh those real harms against…what, exactly? People just…don’t want to? Because of their incorrect belief that the vaccines are more harmful than helpful?

The government exists to handle externalities like contagion and pollution and caring for vulnerable groups. Arguably, we should be a lot harsher on requiring vaccinations, like how we were on polio. But we aren’t.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Wait, do you think chickenpox isn’t contagious?

StaySquared ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Alteon ,

    Cletus, you can say “fuck” on the Internet. Then again, I’m inclined to believe that given your lack of punctuation or correct spelling throughout your entire post, that maybe you think it’s actually spelled “fuk”.

    And God damn do I love the hypocrisy on “believing the narrative”. Sure, we listen to the advice of the medical community, but at least I’m not taking my medical advice from a bunch of 4chan incels and facebook-addicted, soccer moms. The “narrative” lmfao, bro your entire narrative was spoonfed to you by the internet you bottom feeder.

    What next mate? You wanna harp on about how vaccines are making people magnetic or the evil 5G?

    StaySquared ,

    Psst… you’re still poisoned and there’s no turning back.

    Stay mad.

    Alteon ,

    You clowns have been saying that shit for years lol. Nothing’s happened to anyone. Sorry bro, the facts don’t support your feelings, you uneducated snowflake.

    StaySquared ,

    Nothing’s happened to anyone? Nice bubble.

    “uneducated snowflake” lmao

    Alteon ,

    Your dumb conspiracy theories are based on fear and cowardice.

    The amount of people that have been “hurt” because of the vaccine is statistically insignificant, and it’s no different than the number of people that would have issues at taking any other “safe” over the counter medicine.

    Your entire belief against has been crafted and pushed by foreign actors, and your just gullible enough to buy into it.

    But your ignorance and pride will never let you believe it. You want to keep being the fool, that’s your prerogative.

    StaySquared ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    rbesfe ,

    You never had anything to add from the start, bucko

    StaySquared ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    irotsoma ,
    @irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

    So break the bubble, show us the people hurt by the “poison”. And not just one or two who happened to be allergic. That can happen with peanuts, like my little sister the first time she had them as a child. I had chicken pocks before the vaccine existed. I saw tons of kids suffering because of it. Now I see none except the ones who didn’t get the vaccine and the few unfortunate enough to be near too many of the unvaccinated people.

    StaySquared ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    RandomGuy79 ,

    Yo we are talking about chicken pox

    StaySquared ,

    I’ve distinguished between the two. I thought that was clear?

    Well not in my immediate previous comment, but in the other previous comments.

    StaySquared ,

    Out of curiosity I looked up varicella vaccination injuries:

    Besides a sore arm from the injection, redness or rash where the shot is given, or fever can happen after varicella vaccination. More serious reactions happen very rarely. These can include pneumonia, infection of the brain and/or spinal cord covering, or seizures that are often associated with fever.

    maeries ,

    rare

    It says it right there.

    The risk of taking the vaccine is lower that the risk of not taking it. That’s all there needs to be said

    echodot ,

    Yeah, I was vaccinated 4 years ago and then I died like you said I would, you sure showed me.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I also am dead.

    RandomGuy79 ,

    You are a complete ducking wackadoo.

    mememuseum ,

    It’s a proven technology. Did you think Polio and Measles just went away on their own? When the polio vaccine became a thing, people lined up around the street to take them because they had firsthand experience with how debilitating these diseases are. It’s quite literally miracle technology.

    People who are against vaccination have been used by con artists who will say anything inflammatory to gain notoriety and money and be on talk shows and sell books. Be mad at the people who fleeced you.

    Now these diseases that have no place in modern society are making a comeback because of it.

    Halosheep ,

    “Did you think…” No they don’t do that.

    phoenixz ,

    Yeah, you are the type of mentally (and morally) deficient person who should just be forcibly be vaccinated. Don’t like it? Get fined, get jailed, and the get vaccinated anyway against your will. I don’t care at this point.

    “But muh rights?!?!??” F¥°¢k your rights. You do NOT have the right to risk the lives of others, which right now you do.

    “But evil guvermunt!!!” Welcome to the real world where this has shit to do with governments, this is about medical science. A virus doesn’t give a crap about your opinions about your government. Also: Can you get it in your wooden head that the US is NOT the only country in the world? There are hundreds of other countries.

    Your lack of scientific knowledge is NOT an excuse, your conspiracy brain is no excuse either.

    phoenixz ,

    I really typically don’t wish harm on anyone but part of me would just wish you’d get Polio because then you’d get what you deserve. You would then finally see why people vaccinate, though you’re probably dumb enough to even then, while you’re in an iron lung, talk about how it’s all the governments fault because you know everything that Facebook taught you!

    You are so facepalmingly dumb… I know that’s not an argument is but seriously, the stupid hurts. Literally, here, as millions have died rather gruesome deaths because they believed the same stupid bullshit you believe in, and here you are regurgitating the same slogans.

    dan ,
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    An anti-vaxxer? In my Lemmy?

    It’s more likely than you think.

    Treczoks ,

    Wasn’t chickenpox one of the gelding diseases, just like measles? Serves those Antivaxxers well.

    scutiger ,

    Sure, serves them, but what about the vaccinated people who were infected because of them?

    aseriesoftubes ,

    shocked_pikachu_face.png

    AmidFuror ,

    Shocking finding! /s

    ccunning ,

    I wonder how many of the 10% would be unaffected if the rest had gotten vaccines

    disguy_ovahea ,

    Solid herd immunity query.

    Get your jabs people.

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