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PanArab ,

He really hates his trans daughter!

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

She hates him more. When she changed her name, she changed her surname to her mother’s and had it put into the court record that she disowns her father. She could have just broken contact, waited for him to die and hoped she was included in the will, but he was such an awful father that she said, “fuck you and your billions of dollars.” Can you imagine how exceptionally bad a parent that would make him?

Underwaterbob ,

Not to play down how absolutely terrible I’m sure Musk is as a father, but her mum’s also loaded. That would certainly make the decision easier.

nickwitha_k ,

But is she “barring significant changes in world financial systems, my descendants could purchase a small nation-state every generation and still likely never have to sell their labor or until the end of their genetic line” wealthy? Gotta remember that Billion with a B is an absurdly large number that is literally beyond human comprehension in anything but an abstract sense by a large margin.

Underwaterbob ,

I got more curious, so I did some searching, and I just can’t. Turns out Musk has some absurd number of children with several different women. And I only found that out through some pop culture/celebrity worship/exploitation websites I’d rather not have in my search history. I couldn’t even find the name or age of the child in question (probably for the best, I wouldn’t want my children to go through this, either), though it seems of the three children he had with Grimes, the oldest just turned 4. That’s a bit young to even know what disowning is.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Sure, her mom is loaded. But even ignoring the money, she wanted it known in a legal setting and on an official court transcript that she did not consider Elon Musk to be her father. That’s quite the statement.

KillingTimeItself ,

cool, surely they now treat the term trans as a slur too right?

Right?

Right??

prosp3kt ,

Lol, that’s incredible. But more incredible is what happened in Peru: They declared that being trans is a mental disease.

Ozone6363 ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Hylactor ,

    Believe it or not, your understanding is not essential. Unfortunately for you, truth is nuanced and not conveniently delineated. Just because you can’t grasp it, doesn’t make it a mystery.

    Give me a break.

    Cis people have received an inordinate number of breaks for the entirety of recorded history. You will never be killed for holding hands with the wrong person. No nation has a death penalty for expressing your love openly.

    TubularTittyFrog ,

    lol dude, have you heard of the middle east?

    plenty of people get killed for cisgender love there.

    dustyData ,

    Gender dysphoria, the psychological suffering caused by feeling like you are in the wrong body, is the disease. Being a trans person is not a disease, and using that as a basis for insulting or discriminating is inappropriate. Somewhat like autism is the mental disease but having autism is not a disease and it is inappropriate to treat a person as if it is the entirety of their existence. Way too often illness has been used as the basis of mistreatment and outright extermination. People have diseases, they aren’t their diseases. We have introduced this notion from the fields of ethics in medicine and it’s why a lot of things are no longer used in language nor in concept: the disabled, the retarded, the syphilitic, the autistic, etc. People aren’t diseases and they aren’t their disease.

    If you knew a thing or two about the history of gender, you’d know that medicalization of gender is precisely one of the main historical roots to justify discrimination, criminalization and abuse towards trans people. Medicalization of gender has literally killed millions of people throughout history.

    TubularTittyFrog ,

    combine it with race to see an even starker picture. black women’s medical outcomes are insanely worse than other races and genders.

    Cybermonk_Taiji ,

    “Give me a break”.

    How about no.

    HawlSera ,

    Typical Cishet behavior

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    Y’all wanna do a poll for context? Hope that’s allowed, since pretty sure updoots means nothing on Lemmy. Apologies if not, anyway here I go:

    Is trans a slur? Updoot the corresponding comment to cast your vote, or downdoot to be a troll I guess idk

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    Yes

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    No

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    Maybe?

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I think it’s funny that you want to do a poll for context but your question itself is context-dependent. Any quality of any human, inherent or adopted, can be a slur in the proper context.

    Is ‘trans’ a slur when it’s Elliot Page talking about himself? No.

    Is ‘trans’ a slur when a bigot calls someone ‘trans’ to insult them because they think being trans is worthy of contempt? Yes.

    crapwittyname ,

    This is beautiful. Shutting down the discourse completely by virtue of being inarguably correct. I applaud this comment.

    sinedpick ,

    oh no the amazingly useful discussion has been shut down by … examining its premises! Truly a disgrace to online discourse.

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    You illustrated the point better than I had the energy to do-- I simply don’t care enough to be that eloquent because the majority of what I get is nonsense in return. So instead of wasting my time, I chose to take the lazy route and encourage people to come to a consensus on this one key point so that the point you made would become irrefutable.

    Neither trans nor cis are slurs by default, but anything can be a slur if used in a derogatory manner-- I think some comedian had a bit about this, but I can’t recall who and I’m sure even if I did there’s a good chance someone would give me a nasty label for saying such comedian made a good point…

    But the same people that say trans can be a slur, cannot deny in good faith that cis cannot be a slur. They are both simple classifiers with no basis on prejudice. But some people will still argue they are slurs simply because they are used prominently in derogatory contexts.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s not the issue. The issue is that Twitter acts like it is automatically considered a slur, rather than something that is only a slur in certain contexts.

    There’s also the matter of Twitter doing very little about the Nazis on its platform other than giving them a boost.

    Resol ,
    @Resol@lemmy.world avatar

    I am cisgender and aroace. I treat trans people just as equally as everyone else.

    So why does Twitter (I’m not calling me X anymore) hate me now? Do I have to identify as anything other than male to be liked by a toxic community? (I am AMAB) Is this some form of counter-discrimination?

    Obviously trans people deserve rights, but that doesn’t mean cis people should have their rights taken away from them.

    ReveredOxygen ,
    @ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

    It’s not about cis bad, it’s about “I don’t want to be called cis, I want to be called normal”

    Resol ,
    @Resol@lemmy.world avatar

    Ok, got it

    prole ,

    Oh is it? My immediate thought was that it was Elon being childish and basically saying like, “if I can’t say x slur, then I’m going to pretend it’s the same as this clinical, scientific term to make a point.”

    Like that he thinks he’s truly made an amazing satirical statement here or something…

    Beetlejuice001 ,

    It’s the 1% manufacturing consent for a return to slavery while everyone is distracted by their phones

    Resol ,
    @Resol@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t understand what you mean by that.

    Beetlejuice001 , (edited )

    The 1% see the working class as animals. They only care about creating wealth. They don’t want nonbinary, trans or gay people in society. That takes away from reproduction. It is the real reason behind the abortion bans and rise of far right in the world.

    The Republicans have dumbed down education so severe the public doesn’t even recognize what’s happening. Everyone is too distracted on their phones to revolt.

    The 1% have made a short term deal with white supremacists to attempt to return to the days of slavery. But they too will be consumed shortly after. America First lol. Everything and anything about us has been commodified for wealth extraction. First they’re coming for your inheritance and family home, then they’ll take the Social Security Reserve fund. The 1% use out of work lawyers and AI to control the narrative and nudge everyone where they want on social media. This has been a long time in the works but number go up brrr.

    We willingly buy and carry spy devices constantly everyday, everywhere we go. They have amassed so much data on us it’s incredible. The amount of technology being used to spy on us is unfathomable to your average citizen. Snowden tried to tell us. The 1% know if they didn’t do something unions and mobs would come for them eventually.

    The 1% were scammed by the oil barons into a false sense of security over oil and its effects. A near extinction event. The climate refugee crisis will be like nothing you can imagine. Water and food shortages for everyone, except the rich of course. Thing is, without the masses who is left?

    I’ll elaborate further later

    Socsa ,

    I am like 87% cis and like 67% het. Gender and sexuality isn’t a spectrum, it’s a probability field.

    Resol ,
    @Resol@lemmy.world avatar

    I bet all the conservatives are gonna be mad when they find out that even I have no idea if I’m truly male or not. That would make me genderqueer, which is a subset of trans. I mean, I do look very masculine, and use he/him pronouns, but my voice is a bit too… “gay”, and I like wearing tight clothing and oversized sweaters with bucket hats (bonus points if it’s a color that isn’t even close to being associated with manliness, at least where I’m from, such as… idk, pink, and in the case of what I would wear, purple).

    What’s the percentage of cis in that case? 50%? Less? More? How would being aroace affect my het percentage?

    ShaggySnacks ,

    Pink and blue only became gender coded because corporations wanted to sell more merchandise.

    “In America by the 1890s and the early 20th century, manufacturers attempted to sell more children’s and infants’ clothes by color-coding them,” she said. Some manufacturers branded pink for boys and blue for girls, and vice versa.

    Until then, everyone wore blue and pink.

    “If you look back, little boys in the 18th century wore blue and pink, and grown-up men wore blue and pink, and ladies and little girls wore blue and pink,” Steele said.

    The complicated gender history of pink

    Purple is a wicked color because it’s the color of royalty.

    Tyrian Purple was associated with the rank of royalty in the ancient civilisations of Rome, Japan, Persia, Egypt and Constantinople, dating back as far as the 16th century BC. But how did it come to be the stamp of everything imperial? For a start, purple was first sourced in Phoenicia (the name translates as ‘purple land’), an ancient city located in modern-day Lebanon. Producing purple dye was a laborious process – and was subsequently expensive – though the method of extracting it was less glamorous. The dye stemmed from the foul-smelling mucous gland of a marine mollusk. As a result, the term purple owes itself to the Latin word for a purple shellfish, ‘purpura’. A time-consuming process saw these sea snails dried and boiled to make Tyrian dye – many of the creatures were needed to dye even a small segment of fabric, but the benefits meant that the intensity of the colour was long-lasting and not prone to fade.

    Purple: an enchanting pigment reserved for royals and rulers

    Resol ,
    @Resol@lemmy.world avatar

    Cool story.

    card797 ,

    That’s a new one for me. “Aroace”. I can’t imagine what that feels like though. What do I know? The world is so diverse.

    Resol ,
    @Resol@lemmy.world avatar

    Well, imagine being aromantic AND asexual at the same time. The former refers to experiencing no romantic attraction (so… no feeling of love outside of friends and family), the latter refers to experiencing no sexual attraction (so… the lack of a desire to have sex basically).

    You need to have sex to have children, which is also something I don’t want. Hell, I don’t even wanna be married. Most people I know are mad at me for just that, let alone associating myself with the LGBT community for basically not wanting marriage and children… and also not feeling manly enough.

    You learn new stuff everyday.

    card797 ,

    I can’t imagine being mad about someone for that. They need to get a hobby.

    Resol ,
    @Resol@lemmy.world avatar

    Well unfortunately they do exist, and they want me to stop it and get married, like a “normal person”.

    I never wanted to be “normal” to begin with.

    CCF_100 ,

    sob there are new terms that describe human beings because gender is not a binary, woe is me, I’m so upset… /s

    TheRealKuni ,

    sob there are new terms that describe human beings because gender is not a binary, woe is me, I’m so upset… /s

    ‘Cisgender’ doesn’t even require there to not be a gender binary! These snowflakes are ridiculous. It’s not a slur, anymore than ‘heterosexual’ is a slur.

    Llewellyn ,

    These snowflakes are ridiculous.

    Don’t use a bully rhetoric.

    TheRealKuni ,

    Merely turning their own rhetoric back on them. But I appreciate the sentiment.

    Llewellyn , (edited )

    turning their own rhetoric back

    It doesn’t work that way. You smear both sides.

    Cybermonk_Taiji ,

    Don’t tell people what to do. That’s what bullies do.

    Llewellyn ,

    No, that’s not a distinctive or exclusive trait of a bully. Why y’all so eager to defend smearing?

    MapleEngineer , (edited )
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    I call myself cis male. What delicate fucking snowflakes.

    EDIT: I want to provide some more information. I am a straight cis male. Straight is my sexual preference, cis gendered in my gender identity, and male is my biological sex as assigned at birth. I was first called cis male by a lesbian friend in a relationship with a trans-masculine lesbian (I think…s/he was a life long butch lesbian who began to transition socially after we met.) My friend described to me what cis meant and I said, “Ya, that describes me.” I have a pair of trans women friends (one post-op and one who will never get the surgery.) I have a pair of gay friends, one who had always known that he was gay and one who was closeted his whole life, married, kids, and came out in his 50s. I had known him for 25 years and never thought about whether he was straight or gay. In my social circle, intellectual and liberal, it is handy to be able to let people know a bit about me in a few words. I’ve embraced “cis” because I don’t think that I am superior because I am what I am. The people who are offended by being called “cis” are the ones who have sneered labels at others. I haven’t done that. I also find it handy in social situations to be able to say I’m interested in straight or bi cis women.

    I could not care less who you love, who you want to have sex with, how you present yourself, how you want to be addressed, etc. I have my preference but that’s just me.

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    I only ever call myself things like cisgender for the sake of argument, as it is the identity I was born into and lived with for many years before realizing I was agender.

    I personally consider cisgender and cishet to be slurs solely because I’ve so largely seen it used in a derogatory context, the same way “white male” is used by certain bad actors to signal outrage

    In all reality gender, sexual preference, race, ethnicity are all our of place in most civil discussion-- the majority of the time it is brought up is in discussion of identity politics. And if what we want as a society is equality, then identity should take a back seat to humanism.

    Unfortunately, as I’m sure my comment score will no doubt soon reflect, a lot of people take issue with this notion of equality and, as I’m sure replies to my comments may end up reflecting, are ready to disagree and offer their own definitions of equality. It is therefore the duty of the reader to decide what equality means to them, unfortunately.

    abbotsbury ,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    Cisgender is straight up just not a slur though, it literally just means the opposite of transgender, which is also not a slur, despite the fact that it can be used with derogatory language or sentiments.

    UnpluggedFridge ,

    It is so strange to say that identity should take a back seat to humanism when every historical example of discrimination and dehumanization is based on identity. Identity in those instances is not imposed on oneself, but is used to define the outgroup that is being dehumanized. Identity politics is simply an honest accounting of groups that being descriminated against. When the discrimination ends, we see the group identity evaporate. We need only look at the early 20th century definitions of Caucasian, and the identity politics of Irish and Italian Americans subsequently evaporating when that definition evolved to include all Americans of European decent, to see that identity politics is a reaction to injustice and not the other way around.

    Jimmyeatsausage ,

    I think you’re currently in a place where I was in myself many years ago. This is all assuming everything you said was in good faith. You see all of the pain and damage the -isms have caused (racism, sexism, etc) and it seems at first blush that if society simply disregarded the traits those -isms are based around, the problem would go away. There’s enough truth in the idea to make it feel like a solution and, even if it’s subconscious, it kinda takes the onus of action off of you and puts it on the people that that are actually racist or exist. I don’t want to assume your political leanings, but I was farther right on the political spectrum than than I am now, and it fit well with my ideas about personal responsibility and limited government at the time…and I feel like it was regarded as common sense with everyone in that political sphere at the time. At the time, I was a 20-something cishet white guy (I’m still all of those things, except 20), and I felt like everything I had I’d earned, and I legit thought people could pull themselves out of the mire if they wanted it enough. I didn’t like being grouped in with the -ists, but I also wasn’t likely to call out a buddy for making an offensive joke.

    That whole chain of thinking is deeply flawed, but it’s an easy place to land, especially in middle-America. I feel like a good analogy that would have hit home with me at that point in my life would have been stories about places where Christianity was outlawed. I remember I had one of those old Christian comic books that were popular in the 90s about it. If you wanted to wear a cross, you’d have to hide it, you couldn’t talk about being Christian or meet with other Christians (like a church service or prayer group) without having to worry about the law coming down on you. (Really makes me wonder where that infamous sense of persecution the right has comes from). At the time, I’d hear those stories and think, “Man, government sucks…it would be terrible to have to hide who you were like that.” I think about those stories now and I think instead about not wearing the clothes you’re comfortable in, not being able to get healthcare for legit medical diagnoses, not being able to have a club or group of similar people you couls safely meet with to build community around shared life experiences. The story about persucted Christians in some unnamed dystopia was also telling the true story of LGBTQ people in my own country. And women in my own country. And racial groups In. My. Own. Country. I never would have accepted the idea that those persecuted Christians would be OK if there just wasn’t religion. Just like I know marginalized groups today won’t be OK if whatever society deems “wrong” with them just went away. Societies have inertia, and without someone exerting some kind of force on them, they’ll maintain their current trajectory. I came to see I didn’t like my societies trajectory, so I started trying to change it, probably went a little too extreme in the other direction for a while, but eventually learned to just listen first. It’s OK if I belong to a group (or several) that have been bad actors. It means I’m in a position to leverage my privileges to help change society’s momentum. I grew up very poor, but I’ve got pretty much every other privilege society has to offer. I honestly don’t know that I’d have been as fortunate as I am today if even one of those privileges was missing. Even with the deck stacked pretty well in my favor, it was a fucking fight to get here…and even now, doing so much better than most, it feels like barely hanging on some days. I agree that humanism is what we should be striving for, but I also understand that I’m part of a group that’s done a lot of bad to a lot of other groups. I don’t think it makes sense for me to be “proud” of any immutable part of my identity, but that also means I shouldn’t feel personally attacked when people talk about that identity. Things like the whole bear thing would have probably bothered me in the past, but now it’s more nuanced. I’m sad people feel that way, but I don’t blame them, and I’ve listened enough that I believe them. Now the question I ask isn’t “How is this fair to me?” but instead. “How can I use my membership in the group to help change its momentum to something better.” Sometimes it’s voting, sometimes it’s canvassing or protesting, sometimes it’s reaching out to someone I see a part of my past self in.

    Chetzemoka ,

    I just wanna say that I appreciate the hell out of you.

    Jimmyeatsausage ,

    Thanks, stranger. I’m in stormy seas now, and that means more to me than it otherwise might.

    Socsa ,

    Cisgender is a descriptive term. If you have seen it in a derogatory context, then you should take issue with the context.

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    And trans is also a descriptive term, right?

    hikaru755 ,

    …yeah, it is. What are you implying?

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    Cis and trans are both the same type of descriptor. If trans can be used as a slur, so can cis.

    Not saying either are slurs by default. But they most certainly can be turned into ones.

    hikaru755 ,

    Maybe we should clarify what a slur is? Because to my knowledge, a slur is a term that has such negative connotations that it is considered offensive and discriminatory against a certain group of people in itself, without any additional context. You simply do not use it unless you want to insult or offend someone from that group. If a term is only offensive based on how it’s used, it’s just a regular insult, not a slur.

    So, “can be used as a slur” is not a thing. A word is either a slur, or it isn’t. Neither trans nor cis are slurs at the moment. I’ve never seen trans be used as an insult before. And even cis is almost never meant as a direct insult, merely as a reminder that someone is talking about things they have no lived experience with and should probably check their privilege. Yes, that can be in a demeaning way, but the goal there is not to hurt you, but to make you piss off. It’s an act of self protection. Nobody is seeking cis people out and starting to call them names unless they insert themselves into trans spaces and start talking shit about trans issues. If you’re doing that, and getting told off insults you or hurts your feelings, then, frankly, that’s a you problem.

    TubularTittyFrog ,

    agender

    guess this is what i will tell people to call me now. because i don’t give a shit that i have a penis.

    100% agree with you. but sadly humanism doesn’t incite people to team-based violence, so it’s very going to be very popular. human beings very much prefer tribal thinking to global thinking.

    thebrownhaze ,

    So people should just accept what others call them?

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    The definition of cis is, “a person whose gender identity corresponds to their sex assigned at birth.” Does you gender identity correspond to the sex you were assigned at birth? Mine does.

    thebrownhaze ,

    What are the origins of the word “cis”?

    hikaru755 ,

    The prefix cis- is Latin and means on this side of.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

    Just as “trans-” means on the other side of. It’s literally just the opposite of trans.

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    The term cisgender has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis-, meaning ‘on this side of’, which is the opposite of trans-, meaning ‘across from’ or ‘on the other side of’. This usage can be seen in the cis–trans distinction in chemistry, the cis and trans sides of the Golgi apparatus in cellular biology, the ancient Roman term Cisalpine Gaul (i.e. ‘Gaul on this side of the Alps’), and Cisjordan (as distinguished from Transjordan). In cisgender, cis- describes the alignment of gender identity with assigned sex.

    TubularTittyFrog ,

    what if i feel like my gender identity is irrelevant?

    other people care a lot more about my gender and sex than i do. i can tell you that.

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    Then it’s irrelevant. It may be relevant to someone else but that’s their problem.

    thebrownhaze ,

    Also, I don’t accept I was “assigned a gender at birth”. That’s like a person of faith saying when I got a sole. Believe what you want, but don’t expect me to join in.

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    You are free to believe whatever you want to believe.

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    People made the same arguments about “heterosexual” and “straight”, at least with the latter I could see why someone would see that as a slur (it’s a term originates from animal farming), while “heterosexual” just describes someone is attracted to the opposite gender (go on, and use it as an “a ha!” moment against me by claiming it as a proof that even I know there’s only two genders, like fundamentalists do with atheists saying “oh my god!”). “Cis” is just the opposite of “trans”, even if Musk had the techbro-level idea of treating “cis” the same way most sensible people treat that “cool and funny” gamer word, he wants to say out loud in the public, like he used to do it in apartheid Africa.

    thebrownhaze ,

    So, even if I don’t like it, I have to accept being called that? My preferences don’t matter?

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    What do you want to be called instead? Normal?

    Silentiea ,
    @Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Look, some people just aren’t trans like normal people.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I know this may be a difficult concept for you, but here’s what you do:

    Someone calls you cisgendered.

    You say, “I don’t like being called cisgendered, call me _____.”

    That person agrees and calls you ______.

    -and that is all most trans people are asking of you too.

    TubularTittyFrog ,

    speak for yourself. not my experience of many trans folk at all. many of them are actively hostile. and some of them are just straight up fucking mean people. and i’ve also seen trans folks who were chill… become radicalized and whom i used to hang out with and liked… and then all the sudden i’m the ‘enemy’.

    it’s almost like trans folks are people and subject to the same errors in thinking and hateful nonsense as anyone else.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I can’t imagine why trans people might be actively hostile. Can you think of any possible reasons? Do you think it might have to do with things like Twitter treating ‘cisgender’ as a slur?

    That and the genocide?

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United…

    Honytawk ,

    Isn’t it about time to add cis to the LGBTQ+ community?

    That way we can make them get angry with themselves for being part of the group, or make them accept the rest since they now belong to them.

    IzzyScissor ,

    …no?

    We’re all already humans, and they don’t seem to treat that as an in-group, so why would it change with a different label?

    refalo ,

    There is a neofetch alternative that specializes in pride flags. Someone submitted a PR to add the “straight pride” flag, and it was rejected on the basis that it wasn’t a “marginalized community”.

    Like bruh, do you want equality or not?

    www.bu.edu/diversity/files/2021/12/Equity.jpg

    bu.edu/…/inequity-equality-equity-and-justice/

    abbotsbury ,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    I think it’s okay for a queer app to focus on queer shit and not associate with a label which is overwhelmingly used to virtue signal being a bigot, that’s not really an attack on equality.

    refalo ,

    I feel like it is an example of the paradox of tolerance.

    lud ,

    A neofetch for pride flags?

    What? How would that even work and why?

    Isn’t neofetch a tool to see basic stats about an OS and Distro?

    refalo ,

    github.com/hykilpikonna/hyfetch

    lud ,

    That answers the how, I guess.

    noxy ,
    @noxy@yiffit.net avatar

    I would also reject such a pull request. Straight folks aren’t systematically shamed for being straight. They don’t need pride to counter nonexistent shame.

    refalo ,

    why can’t everyone be included? wasn’t that the whole point?

    noxy ,
    @noxy@yiffit.net avatar

    no

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    How about a community that includes everyone?

    wildcardology ,

    That should be the human race.

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    Correct-- humanism is equality. But some people don’t want humanism, for whatever fucking reason.

    refalo ,

    love the downvotes. never change, internet

    cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    the best part about this is that elon basically is doing the john mulaney sketch where he says cis all the time to justify it but when asked why the n word is allowed, he refers to it without saying it.

    IzzyScissor ,

    “If you’re comparing two words and won’t say one of the words… That’s the worse word!”

    LaserTurboShark69 ,

    I actually kinda wish I could see the idiotic replies that the mods are removing

    Plume , (edited )
    @Plume@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    You believe that cis is a slur because that’s how you use the word trans.

    These people are so fragile. If you dare remind them that they’re cisgender, that they’re straight, that they’re white, that they’re able-bodied, they take it personally because to them, they’re just normal.

    All of the sudden, they have to think about their place in society and it absolutely terrifies them. They are like rich people when you tell them that they’re rich. They will do this whole fucking song and dance to try and tell you about how they are not that rich and how the government taxes them and everything and how they’re just like you and so on.

    They are not white, they are not cis, they are not straight, they are not able-bodied, no, they are just normal. It’s everyone else that is different. It’s them who are black, who are gay, who are trans, who are disabled. They’re different.

    But my guy, you are not. You are as much a part of the society as I am. And you’re getting just a small taste of what it’s like to be a minority in said society. Someone reminded you of what you are for just a second. Now, imagine being constantly brought back to what you are and not who you are. What that would be like.

    People like Elon Musk take offense to being called straight, white, cis or able-bodied because everything else is inferior to them.

    On a side note: Someone should remind him of what the Nazis did to disabled people. Because the dude is clearly getting cozy with a lot of them, but I don’t think being this level of clinically stupid is going to get him far in the Fourth Reich. Besides, those South African origins… erh, that may get him in trouble. And having a trans daughter? Woof, doesn’t sound like “good genes” to me. Elon, you may want to pick better friends.

    Bull205 ,

    This might be top five comment on Lemmy that I’ve seen.

    I appreciate what you put down here. I’m a white dude that is about as corn fed looking as they come. This comment made so much sense.

    Thank you for taking the time to write this out.

    Plume , (edited )
    @Plume@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Ok, I’m going to be completely honest with you. I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.

    Are you telling me that I made a shit comment? If so, please do say so because I’m gonna be honest: I am not sure about this comment and I’ve been thinking about deleting it ever since I posted it. I rewrote it like five or six times before until I finally got fed up with it and said “fuck it” and posted it. :|

    EDIT:

    So, according to all of you, I worry too much. Thanks a lot for the support, and I’m glad you liked my comment. ❤️

    boydster ,
    @boydster@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Leave it, it is very well-written and it also made my day to read

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure they’re being genuine. It’s an insightful comment!

    AngryCommieKender ,

    Considering that they didn’t use the universal /s tag, I would take it at face value. It’s a good comment.

    WanderingVentra ,

    How did you interpret a genuine compliment as so negative? You need to get some more self-esteem, friend lol. You’re valid and you have good insights!

    Empricorn ,

    Internet. Those with empathy have been wary for years…

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    Imposter syndrome’s a bitch.

    Empricorn ,

    Who said that!? I don’t know you!

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    https://media.tenor.com/KzBWXthQCiIAAAAM/bobby-hill-thats-my-purse.gif

    WalrusDragonOnABike ,

    Because obviously all compliments are actually just insults in disguise! /s

    I put /s, but like, that’s often my first assumption. IME, often compliments have been mostly been intentionally a back-handed insult, are putting themselves down in the process, or they’re trying to give a genuine compliment but its about something I dislike about myself and therefore feels insulting despite the intentions.

    radicalautonomy ,

    They are being genuine. It is a terrific analysis. You are exactly right; in their minds, they are “normal”, and anyone implying any sort of equal status between them and the “abnormals” pisses them off.

    Wav_function ,

    Your comment is spot on

    Bull205 ,

    Plume - I was being totally serious. I really think your comment hit home for me and I appreciate how you framed your points.

    Also - please don’t let internet comments from strangers linger rent free in your head. Too much awesomeness out in the world to let randoms’ comments bring you down.

    Plume ,
    @Plume@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Thank you. It really means a lot to me. 🩵🩷🤍

    potustheplant , (edited )

    they take it personally because to them, they’re just normal.

    Maybe they (including myself) might take it personally because to them you ARE normal. Regardless of your gender, skin colour or sexual orientation.

    So, if I’m treating everyone the same, why is it wrong to ask for other people to do it as well? For example, if I’m trying to talk about a certain topic and your opinion is discarded simply because “you’re cis” then yeah, I have every right to be offended. Just because I’m white and a man it doesn’t mean that I’m necessarily part of the problem.

    And no, I wouldn’t presume to know how if feels to be part of a minority that has to face constant violence and discrimination but that’s precisely why I want to have the conversation, I want to better understand what other people are going through. Although, that doesn’t mean that I will (or should) agree with everything the other person says. Being part of a minority doesn’t magically make you right about everything. Just like I might be biased due to my personal context, you can be biased because of yours.

    Plume ,
    @Plume@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I’m afraid you are putting a lot of words into my mouth and making lots of assomptions about what I’m saying here. I don’t really know how to answer to this because, well, you’re debating against things I didn’t say.

    I’m calling you cis, because it’s simply a descriptive term. You are white, you are a man, you are cisgender. That’s not a problem. I’m white, I’m a woman, I’m transgender. That’s not a problem. These, on their own, are simply descriptors. No one here is saying that you’re a problem. I’m talking about people who specifically take offense to these terms, like Musk here does, like, if you tell this man that he is “cis”, he will genuienly get upset.

    potustheplant ,

    You misunderstood my point. Context is important and, in this case, the context is using these terms in a platform for discussion (which are usually not very friendly). In my comment, I was thinking of why calling someone “cis” or “trans” or any other thing in a conversation can often be to insult or discredit the other person and why that’s wrong.

    TubularTittyFrog ,

    not understanding your point is the point. you are not human. you are the evil majority who can’t ever experience bad things… and if you do… you deserve it.

    the irony of so many oppressed people is that they dont’ want freedom from oppression, they want to oppress. they want revenge not harmony.

    and no better way to tell it when you express yourself politely and they ATTACK you for doing so and are unable to admit that trans folks can also be oppressors of each other and other people. oppression doesn’t make you a saint.

    NikkiDimes ,

    So, do you believe cis is a slur?

    potustheplant ,

    I think “slur” is not the right word but in some cases it can be used ina a derogartory or dimissive way.

    NikkiDimes ,

    I think the post you responded to may not be talking about you then lol

    potustheplant ,

    By “post” do you mean the comment I replied to or the actual OP? Because I believe that the intent behind classifying “cis” as an insult is more aligned with my interpretation.

    Silentiea ,
    @Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    If using the word “cisgender” is a ban-worthy offense, it’s not being considered “a word that can sometimes be insulting”, it’s being considered “a word that is inherently harmful to use in almost any situation”

    potustheplant ,

    I don’t think that terms that can get you banned would do so in any context. You’d have to use it and then someone else would have to report you. Might be wrong though.

    Socsa ,

    I have never been excluded from truth seeking conversations because I am cis. Everyone likes an ally. Some people actually like them a little too much in my experience.

    If you are in a queer safe space you should treat it like you are at your in-laws house. You don’t need to be expressing every diverging opinion or challenging every cultural assumption. In my experience, if you are being met with hostility, it’s because you are projecting it.

    potustheplant ,

    I have never been excluded from truth seeking conversations because I am cis.

    Congrats. Unfortunately, it has not been my experience.

    if you are being met with hostility, it’s because you are projecting it.

    I honestly don’t think I am but it is something that I could ask if it happens again.

    In my past experiences where my questions or disagreements, etc have been met with hostility, the reason seems to be that if I don’t 100% agree with what the other person is saying, it’s simply because I’m a straight white man and don’t know any better. Which, as you may guess, doesn’t lead to a very productive discussion.

    TubularTittyFrog ,

    that’s because of purists and nutjobs any disagreement whatsoever is hostile to them. the notion of civil disagreement, or just polite disagreement is met with violence, because tehy are passive aggressive nut jobs. they don’t want you to be an ally, they dont’ want to work with you to improve things, they want to you submit to their crazy.

    just like if you go into your in laws, they ask you for a cup of tea, and you know they serve shitty tea, so you decline it politely, and they go ‘oh so what is our tea not good enough for you?’

    TubularTittyFrog , (edited )

    amen.

    i keep trying to be on the side of these people, but they keep telling me i’m a shit person because of my skin color, my gentials, my education, etc. and ironically… most of these people are WAY more privileged than will ever be. I’m so sick of trans/feminist peopel telling me off that i’m a POS who got all the advantages in life… while they often got free-rides on the life train due to parental wealth and exploiting other people where as i had to struggle to get into college and pay off my debts and didn’t get a tsate of this so called of ‘privileged’ until iwas well into my 30s. all the while being constantly harassed for not being a ‘real man’ and also ‘being a man’. all i ever wanted was to be left alone to do my own thing… but no. the second i want ot empathize about being beating for my non-gender conformity, i’m told to STFU and that I’m ‘stealing’ or whatever, because apparently my expereince of my gendered life and gender violence doesn’t exist or is all lies and falsehoods because i’m not trans, or a woman. and oh by the way, if it did really happen… i clearly deserved it because of the debt i own gender minorities or something.

    like… ok i won’t be on your side anymore then. i’ll just leave you to your own bitterness and focus on folks who treat me well who aren’t pathologically violent against anyone who is different than them and who take offense at every perceived slight.

    Demdaru ,

    Because they are normal. If most of the species is the same in these aspects, it’s normal. But you know, we can also simply switch what word we use, and instead of normal use…common or average. So, they are average. :p

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    Everyone is normal. There is no different, only human. Do you disagree?

    sinedpick ,

    why not come out and make your point instead of JAQing off?

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    Because I think people’s disagreement makes my point more effectively than my words ever could.

    Luisp ,

    So it’s a gay-only platform now?

    CluckN ,

    It always has been?

    Luisp ,

    No women allowed club, only bros

    T00l_shed ,

    Hmmm sounds a little… gay…

    lolcatnip ,

    Huh? How do you figure?

    Honytawk ,

    Because cis people are banned

    lolcatnip ,

    Um…what do you think cis means?

    casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

    Gay until proven otherwise

    card797 ,

    That’s antisemitic, too.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m pretty sure Elon has no problem with antisemitism since he thinks it’s the “actual truth” that Jews (who are, apparently, not white) are oppressing white people.

    xc2215x ,

    Utterly moronic. What on earth ?

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