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Eccitaze , (edited )
@Eccitaze@yiffit.net avatar

OKAY, time for some clarification as a Seattle local:

  • This was NOT an isolated incident. The Cuff Complex, which was one of the bars that got raided, had been raided so many times in the past the owner had to put up a sign warning customers not to wear jockstraps because of the heavy enforcement (which ironically caused him to lose even more business because everyone was pissed at the owner for “policing bodies”)
  • Gay bars were being targeted disproportionately to straight bars. Remember, there are a LOT more straight bars than gay bars. Raiding 4 gay bars covers a sizable chunk of all the gay bars in Seattle, but raiding 14 straight barsis a relative drop in the bucket.
  • A gay cabaret club owner crunched the numbers and found his establishment was raided 1,550% more than the average liquor licensee. The owner of the Cuff also owns another gay bar and a regular straight bar. His two gay bars are frequently raided, while the straight bar has NEVER been raided.
  • The board that enforces liquor laws is the LCB. Two funny facts: First, the rule against lewd conduct was created by… The LCB, not the state legislature. Second, the LCB stands for the Liquor and Cannabis board, which means that they are already ignoring a law when it suits their purpose (the federal prohibition against cannabis).
  • Finally, after the gay community collectively tore the LCB a new asshole during a board meeting earlier this week, the LCB reversed course and basically said “ah shit we fucked up” and is suspending enforcement of its lewd conduct rules. I strongly recommend this Mastodon thread from someone who attended the meeting, it’s truly a thing of glory and demonstrates just how close the LCB was to getting slapped with a discrimination lawsuit: partyon.xyz/
feedum_sneedson ,

well gay

KillingTimeItself ,

i feel like this has happened more than a few times in seattle in recent years.

Yall good?

nutt_goblin ,

No, in fact 😔

KillingTimeItself ,

damn, best wishes, get better soon :)

nifty ,
@nifty@lemmy.world avatar

Is this enough motivation to get people out to vote this election? Wtf Seattle!

nutt_goblin ,

Or you go out and vote and then the mayor appoints someone who lost her election to the council 🤡

doctorcrimson ,

So you don’t vote but the Christofascists do vote, that’s your solution? Political apathy is going to somehow save the day? If you don’t like the pool of candidates maybe you should study law and politics for 2 years then run for the position yourself?

nutt_goblin ,

Where did I say that??

doctorcrimson ,

Sorry, I just kind of went off on you for even alluding that a persons vote doesn’t matter in a given situation.

yesman ,

The lewd conduct violations in question were related to clothing that exposed the buttocks and nipples of patrons, which is prohibited under state law in liquor establishments, he said, noting that, in his opinion, the law needed to change to be a reflection of today’s times.

Absolute horseshit. According to the Supreme Court, the pigs have no duty to uphold law, enforce court orders, or protect citizens. We’ve seen plenty refuse to enforce gun regulations and COVID restrictions recently. Don’t ever believe them when they say they can’t pick and choose what to enforce.

Castle Rock v. Gonzales

Warren v. District of Columbia

afraid_of_zombies ,

Don’t ever believe them when they say they can’t pick and choose what to enforce.

Man the Supreme Court fucked up with that one. If the Executive branch can pick and choose that means it is taking on the duties of the other branches. Which breaks the entire concept of Checks and Balances. Who the hell wants that? Judges issue arrest warrants and cops are like “nah”, legislation changes the law and law enforcement vetos it.

SpiceDealer , (edited )
@SpiceDealer@lemmy.world avatar

I expect to see this shit go down somewhere like Alabama or my home state of Tennessee or even Utah but Seattle? I thought Seattle was one of these “progressive” cities. What the fuck is going on?

RizzRustbolt ,

Money.

SpacetimeMachine ,

Cops are cops everywhere. Progressive police do not exist.

aDuckk ,

City cops don’t live near the people they police.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Lower housing costs by banning zoning. People serving a community should live in the community.

mojofrododojo ,

in a word, SPOG is the problem.

publicola.com/…/how-reforms-for-off-duty-police-w…

salon.com/…/seattle-police-union-booted-from-coun…

seattletimes.com/…/seattle-police-union-responds-…

SpiceDealer ,
@SpiceDealer@lemmy.world avatar

Shit! Seattle was one of those places that I was thinking about moving to escape the south.

mojofrododojo ,

it’s still one of the best places I’ve ever lived in, including the uk, singapore, and all over the west and east coasts of the US. SPOG sucks big nuts but no place is perfect. Moved here from DFW, was DEFINITELY a major upgrade in QOL.

SpiceDealer ,
@SpiceDealer@lemmy.world avatar

I’ll keep that in mind.

werefreeatlast ,

They should checkout sniffies.com it’s literally a map of guys wanting to fuck other guys. Maybe they can raid people’s houses? That’ll teach them to not want penises in their orifices right? They are probably drinking while doing it.

I feel like we need to start a m4m for Seattle on Lemmy or mastodon. I actually started r/Seattlegay in reddit but then they banned me. Assholes. Hey if there’s such a thing already I would love to partake.

prole ,

It is so goddamn depressing how far we’ve backslid on LGBTQ+ issues since 2016.

kemsat ,

If it’s consensual between people of appropriate ages, then the government should have absolutely nothing to say or do.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

What a waste of resources. These cops could have been looking for actual crimes instead of this bullshit. Wishful thinking, I know.

Madison420 ,

Something actually risky? They don’t get paid enough for that!

Hacksaw ,

Where have you ever seen cops choose solving crimes over harassing minority groups? ACAB

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

On TV, mostly. Sometimes at the movies.

A_Random_Idiot ,

Weird how the party of freedom and the party of small government wants to take away so many freedoms and put so much government between you and everything else, huh?

kemsat ,

Yeah, it is funny that the people that came to this land for freedom ended up creating a government that restricts freedoms so much. Turns out the didn’t want to destroy the systems of control they ran from, they just wanted to be the ones in charge.

Heavybell ,
@Heavybell@lemmy.world avatar

I am very much under the impression that the freedom the original pilgrims sought was the freedom to persecute each other, yes. Like, they left England because they were being stopped from doing that. They even went to one of the Nordic countries first, and were welcomed, but they didn’t like it there because they thought the locals were too liberal or something.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Pilgirims =/= Purtains.

MutilationWave ,

Many of the earliest immigrants to North America came because they were religious regressives that didn’t fit in with their countries of origin.

afraid_of_zombies ,

A mere 128 years after the first Europeans did and +13,000 years after the first humans.

“Earliest”.

MutilationWave ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    afraid_of_zombies ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    octopus_ink ,

    Exactly true.

    The puritans were the maga of the time.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    Poor piligrams. No one ever mentions them.

    Wytch ,

    Freedom and small government for corporate interests

    Big government and fascist control for everyone else

    MonsiuerPatEBrown ,

    I believe that the Seattle polices sent more retired officers and off duty officers to terrorize people on Jan 6 in DC than any other department in the country.

    And let’s remember the Washington State Police did nothing to stop protestors from storming the WA governor’s mansion.

    Seattle is a lovely place. The SPD work at ruining that regularly.

    postmateDumbass ,

    Tear gassing the ciry council members was a signature moment.

    IamSparticles ,

    I feel like there are a couple misrepresentations in your comment: SPD did not send people to DC. They went on their own time. There were 6 of them. Two were terminated after an investigation. For the others, there was not sufficient evidence of any illegal activity to take action. Just being there wasn’t illegal. Don’t think people didn’t take notice, though.

    As for the protestors at the governor’s mansion… That has nothing to do with SPD. The state patrol had officers on standby for any violence at the capitol but they weren’t actively on site when people jumped the fence. Still, they responded and had the entire situation under control in 30 minutes. Nobody was hurt. The only damage was a broken gate. I don’t know if anyone was ever charged with anything. I think WSP have revised operating policies as a result. In their defense, nothing like that had ever happened at the governor’s mansion. Ever.

    All that said, SPD has some serious issues. They were under federal DOJ oversight for over 10 years as part of a settlement over a pattern of excessive force. It was just lifted in September. I’m not sure it should have been. The fact that 6 officers went to DC for the protests shows that there’s a deep cultural divide between the police and the people of Seattle that they’re supposed to be serving.

    mojofrododojo ,

    SPOG is the problem. Any half decent union that cared about it’s ability to police would have fired those fuckwits in a heartbeat.

    SPOG defended the trump flags and fucking headstone one unit had. they’re defenders of corruption and enablers - we STILL don’t have accountability on police overtime after 12 fucking years. Officers are still pulling $200k+ from unaccountable paper reported shit.

    SPOG’s the fucking problem.

    LemmyIsFantastic ,

    Seems like they were just the ones breaking the rules.

    Postman further detailed the extent of the inspections, noting that on Friday night, the JET visited 10 locations, including two known as historic gay clubs. On Saturday, LCB officers inspected eight clubs, two of which were gay clubs. He said these inspections were part of their routine work to ensure compliance with state liquor laws.

    Annecdotal the gay clubs and festivals I’ve been too are way more sexually charged so tbh this isn’t really shocking to me.

    FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re going to tell me that college dive bars never flash some tits?

    KeenFlame ,

    Stop, can we fucking discuss why the fuck we should not be allowed to be lewd in the first place because that’s old pedo church boomer talk

    LemmyIsFantastic ,

    I couldn’t care less. But it’s a law and not targeted, which is what this is saying.

    lolcatnip ,

    The law isn’t targeted (on paper, at least), but the enforcement definitely is.

    LemmyIsFantastic ,

    No it wasn’t. At all. 2 out of 8.

    LemmyIsFantastic ,

    Once or twice, nothing even close to hanging out at a drag show.

    I’m not judging, I’m just saying that gay clubs are usually more sexually explicit in my experience 🤷‍♂️

    lolcatnip ,

    Selective enforcement is a very common mechanism for harassment.

    LemmyIsFantastic ,

    2 in 8. Not sure what’s selective about that 🤷‍♂️

    HerbalGamer ,
    @HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Stonewall season?

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    Keep your bricks handy. When Trump wins reelection in November, we’re all going to need them.

    NOT_RICK ,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Doomerism breeds apathy. Get your bricks ready just in case, but don’t forget to vote

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    Voting’s not going to matter now.

    We elected a Democratic Congress and president and abortion was still criminalized. Their only response to it was to raise money. (A cool $80,000,000 to be precise.)

    The only difference between these two groups of legislators is that one will stab you in the front while the other stabs you in the back. They’re both getting richer no matter who wins.

    Snowpix ,
    @Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

    Sorry, but who exactly is in control of the House and stonewalls any sort of progress before it could ever reach the Senate or Biden? Here’s a hint: it’s not the Democrats. Get your voter apathy nonsense outta here, people who think like you do are why the Republicans are able to win and do so much damage.

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    No, the Republicans win because we give Democrats power and still get conservative outcomes regardless.

    In half of the states it’s still legal to pay someone seven bucks an hour. A single unexpected $400 expense will drive 30-40 million Americans to take on more debt. An unexpected injury or illness will still put most Americans into bankruptcy.

    And what do Democrats do? Pretend that war is the most important issue, and move heaven and earth to ship more of our tax money overseas for it.

    That is why so many people don’t think voting matters, and they’re not wrong.

    seejur ,

    Abortion is a product of the supreme Court being stuffed by Conservatives under Trump. So yes, a precise product of letting Conservatives win the elections in 2016. It doesn’t get more direct than this

    GlendatheGayWitch ,

    If anything voting matters even more! Especially for those of us that are in red states. Thomas already said that he would reverse Lawrence v TX (2003) and Hodges v Obergefell (2015). The anti-sodomy laws are still on the books in TX and the TX AG has said that he would use that law should Lawrence be overturned.

    It’s comments like this that keep people from the polls, when we should be running towards them! We could turn TX blue, if people just bothered to show up. We were the first state to have in-person early voting (1980) and we still have terrible turnout partly due to this mentality.

    We need more people voting to help shift the country to the left. There are lives at stake if we let the Republicans win.

    mojofrododojo ,

    Voting’s not going to matter now.

    get fucked with that rhetoric. it’s defeatist and garbage. in the process of tearing down the old system, you can still use a broken system to reduce harm. abandoning the fucking enterprise and alienating your allies is blisteringly stupid.

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    So… who are you voting for?

    mojofrododojo ,

    well let’s see. we have one who’s a mediocre president everyone says is helping war crimes.

    or we have the one who’s said he’ll be a day one dictator.

    Now, shit man, that’s a tough one… huh… let’s see… uh…

    OH THAT’S FUCKING RIGHT I ALREADY SWORE MY OATH AND I’LL BE FUCKED IF I PUT A TREASONOUS MORON BACK INTO THE FUCKING WHITE HOUSE.

    Yeah, guess that may not have been as complex as you might think.

    Disappointment? or Traitor who has a giant hardon for dictators and wants to give that lifestyle a go?

    huhhhh…

    tell you what, I’ll let you take off your shoes if using your toes helps you add it up faster.

    RizzRustbolt ,

    Ah lads… not again…

    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Wow, 60 years on and they’re still raiding gay bars. Can’t express how profoundly depressing that is.

    cyborganism ,

    How’s about investigating straight bars where dudes drug girls by sneaking GHB on their drinks or spend the night sexuality harassing and touching girls without their consent?

    No, they gotta go after the assless chaps.

    somethingsnappy ,

    Show me chaps that aren’t assless.

    Burn_The_Right ,

    Exactly. Assful chaps are just pants.

    FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    Any one got a pic of DeSantis or Gregg Abbott in chaps?

    I’m scared to Google that one.

    postmateDumbass ,

    They’ve paid good money to keep those photos hidden.

    cyborganism ,

    You just wanna see assess don’t you?

    postmateDumbass ,

    Ironically, an assless chap could not shit.

    SuckMyWang ,

    Oh is this why they are assless? I could never figure it out

    postmateDumbass ,

    That whooosh was not a fart.

    eldoom ,

    I mean they did a while ago nightclub called Foundation. But it’s been a couple years…

    Doesn’t excuse this though. Like at all.

    laughterlaughter ,

    Assless chaps? Have you seen some dudes’ asses? Or am I missing a reference?

    FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/83f94268-bc69-4400-bc73-4e2a9217cfa5.png

    Only without the bluejeans.

    cyborganism ,

    You want a reference to dude’s asses?

    laughterlaughter ,

    You don’t?

    EpeeGnome ,

    Haha, different meaning of the word. Referring to “chaps” the clothing item from the Western part of the U.S., not to folks who don’t have an ass. Chaps were made of leather and worn over jeans to protect to protect the inside seam area of them from excess wear from rubbing against the side of the saddle and the stirrup straps when spending a long time riding a horse. Or are sometimes worn without the jeans by men being lewd.

    laughterlaughter ,

    Thanks for explaining! Today I learned something new.

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    You think that doesn’t happen in gay bars?

    cyborganism ,

    Ah well. Good point. It’s just that over here it’s more prevalent in regular bars.

    Rai ,

    In gay bars, people aren’t wasting good GHB on OTHER people, we’re taking it ourselves.

    NOT_RICK ,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Doesn’t GHB basically turn off the record button on your brain? What fun is a trip you can’t remember?

    Rai ,

    Oh absolutely not! A small dose is like being a little tipsy but without the wobbles. It’s tingly and feels nice. It tastes like a tyre store smells.

    A medium dose makes sex touching feel REAAAALLY GOOD. There’s no memory loss involved. It just feels fucking awesome.

    An overdose will put you in a sleep for 1-2 hours, and you cannot be roused. It’s quite scary. You’ll probably pee. The threshold for taking a heavy dose and feeling awesome vs falling asleep for a long while is pretty small.

    Weighing out 1.75g and recoding with .5g 20 minutes later is the best way to go.

    NEVER combine with alcohol.

    NOT_RICK ,
    @NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

    Makes sense, thanks for sharing.

    Rai ,

    Totally! It’s a fun substance that unfortunately shitty people do bad things with.

    mojofrododojo ,

    It tastes like a tyre store smells.

    fascinating description. pass, but thanks for sharing

    Rai ,

    Oh shit I was describing GBL. GHB has a very slight salt taste. It’s not great but it’s not bad. GBL turns to GHB while you metabolize it. GBL tastes terrible.

    They’re both fun but in a responsible manner and NO ALCOHOL.

    Sagifurius ,

    Nope, not in quantities people take for recreational purposes

    FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    so, per a thing on NPR radio… it was 4 gay bars and 6 other establishments (presumably that serve alcohol.)

    Not gonna say it wasn’t harassment - cuz it was. There is and was a better way to handle it, even if the law needs to be enforced at all. I would suggest the purpose behind the law makes sense. I know Minneapolis handles the issue by not giving places that allow nudity liquor licenses, and from experience, drunken horndogs are some of the worst humans you’ve met.

    BreakDecks ,

    I don’t see any justification at all for government-enforced dress codes in private adult-only spaces. I think the government should fuck off and stop exerting cultural control over people.

    FuglyDuck ,
    @FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

    I work in contract security… years ago, one of our clients was adjacent to a full strip club. This club added a just-detached-enough bar (I think the rule is separate entrances?). As soon as that bar opened… the client saw a 3-fold increase in incidents. 10 fold increases over violent incidents requiring the subjects be cuffed and removed.

    Drunken assholes trying to get laid by demonstrating their masculinity…. Let’s just say I’d rather deal with drug dealers.

    Aside from covering a property that was adjacent to a trump rally intake/overflow point and the Super Bowl a few years back (fucking Philly fans…)… my single-night arrest record goes to a drunken Halloween orgy.

    Booze does not mix well with most things… it especially does not mix well with hormones.

    52fighters ,

    Can we do both? Lewd behavior doesn’t belong in public.

    Sagifurius ,

    Gay bars ain’t exactly public. It’s why cops don’t charge you with drunk in public till.you leave.

    cyborganism ,

    A bar is a private establishment.

    If they do it in the bushes in a public park, that’s a different story.

    52fighters ,

    Some bars are private establishments. Those bars require memberships. The rest are public non-governmental establishments. These are open to the general public. Lewd behavior does not belong in any public establishment. If you want that type of environment, make it a membership only establishment.

    meyotch ,

    If chaps had an ass they would be pants.

    Immersive_Matthew ,

    It was more than just gay clubs visited all under enforcing liquor laws which begs the question, is this a top priority for Seattle society as surely those same police personnel could have been working on real issues as surely naked nips and exposed ass pants are doing little society harm. Meanwhile, a few more drunk drivers never got stopped. That is the real crime here. Seattle police are distracted with low priority issues. Is this ok with the people living there?

    Sunforged , (edited )

    Nah but the libs keep electing conservative Dems.

    Edit: Guarantee these downvotes are coming from people who don’t live in a solid blue city. There is only one viable party so you get all flavors of democrats, the most conservative ones always win mayor and the majority of city council.

    dwemthy ,

    The head of the city council is also against the recent referendum to shift local elections to even years, which would likely increase turn out. Higher turn out usually means more progressive votes

    Sunforged , (edited )

    I mean Sarah Nelson thought we could reduce traffic by using kayaks in Elliott Bay for freight, so she’s just a font of good ideas.

    Let’s not forget the major gerrymandering that was done to the 3rd district to push out socialist Kshama Sawant.

    eupraxia ,
    @eupraxia@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    SPD has “limited value” to the small biased sample of locals I know. They’re very unpopular in some communities, especially queer/minority communities around where these inspections took place. But as always, many others aren’t directly impacted and so they tend to be quietly neutral or supportive of the police.

    lolcatnip ,

    SPD is more or less a rogue agency. Their actions are unaffected by what Seattleites want.

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