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metallic_substance ,

How come reddit/Lemmy (but especially reddit) seems so obsessed with Epstein? No judgement, just curious

lefaucet ,

The guy kept a list of billionaires he was serving minor sex-traffic victims too.

It’d be great if that list were to become public so there could maybe be some justice for the victims and some punishment to deter tomorrow’s billionaire’s from following suit.

It be great it despite the blatant cover-up of Epstein’s murder the list still became public.

It’d be great if those who felt they were above the law and commited heineous crimes found they weren’t above the law.

It’d be great to see the justice system worked

TheSanSabaSongbird ,

He was also almost certainly an Israeli intelligence asset. I can’t prove it, but there’s a ton of evidence for anyone who wants to look into it. I’m surprised that this is not more widely known.

thisIsaSuperPrivate ,

I have read many theories on this. They are theories, but they are quite believable. I would not be surprised in the slightest if they were true.

MiDaBa ,

I think it’s because he represents how rich powerful people live under a different set of rules and are seemingly able to get away with almost anything. Compound that with the right wing obsession with human trafficking that usually leans into conspiracy theories that both exaggerate the real issue and somehow only blames “leftist elites”. They hope the Epstein release will finally prove their wacky theorys correct.

TorJansson ,

It will be real interesting to see who files a motion objecting to the unsealing and appeals it to a higher court.

Yearly1845 ,

PLEASE

they’ll shriek

WON’T ANYONE THINK OF THE VICTIMS

arin ,

A bit of common sense finally?

BlackPit , (edited )

January 1 - This is just the emotionally charged distraction. Keep watchful for the event that needs to go under the radar. A change in laws or policy, a new war, or anything that is meant to erode people’s privacy, security or freedom. The US has a history of implementing undesirable changes during holiday periods when there’s little opposition. Possibly something like this;

act.eff.org/…/tell-congress-they-must-defeat-hpsc…

Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is set to expire on December 31, 2023

nutsack ,

what the fuck is an associate

CPMSP ,

One who associates…

duffman ,

noun /əˈsōsēət,əˈsōSHēət/ 1. a partner or colleague in business or at work.

nutsack ,

oh

EatATaco ,

What a dumb move. All the names? The judge must know that people will not be smart enough to realize being on the list doesn’t mean you’re guilty of any crime. And it’s going to include victims? And people who might have just been included in an email?

I’m all for going after any criminals, but the problem with the outcome of this is that people are stupid and will think that inclusion on the list is the same as guilt. If we are also talking about people who fought successfully to have their names protected, it’s the rich people with means who won’t end up being made public.

If people were generally rational, this would be a good thing. But we’re not, and it seems that all sense is thrown out the window when it comes to Epstein.

JoBo ,

This isn’t the “flew on his jet a few times” sort of associates, they were named in Giuffre’s court case.

The documents are part of a settled civil lawsuit alleging Epstein’s one-time paramour Ghislaine Maxwell facilitated the sexual abuse of Virginia Giuffre. Terms of the 2017 settlement were not disclosed.

Low effort version of this post:

Nice try, Andrew.

EatATaco ,

You read part of the article, found something you think confirms your point (it does not) and then just stopped reading and thinking. Your issue is that you’re trying to be right, rather than trying to figure out what is right.

Also from the article:

Some of the names may simply have been included in depositions, email or legal documents.

And very explicitly

including Epstein’s victims, co-conspirators and innocent associates.

And also

The documents may not make clear why a certain individual became associated with Giuffre’s lawsuit,

As I said, people aren’t rational especially when it comes to Epstein. I appreciate you coming to me and demonstrating this for everyone.

JoBo ,

I did read the article, I just I didn’t realise there was any article after all the jump, sorry. Hate it when sites do that.

But I still don’t buy that argument:

Judge Loretta Preska set the release for Jan. 1, giving anyone who objects to their documents becoming public time to object. Her ruling, though, said that since some of the individuals have given media interviews their names should not stay private.

Anyone who was named in those documents knows that they were named in those documents. It is unlikely to include as many innocents as you, or rather that journalist, seem to expect.

EatATaco ,

So, it’s the articles fault you didn’t read it because of something that happens extremely regularly in articles on the Internet. I’m wrong because of words you put in my mouth (I made no claims as to how many innocents are on the list). And you’re still right based on blind speculation.

It’s like you’re desperate to demonstrate my point for me.

JoBo ,

Chill the fuck out.

EatATaco ,

You act like your first response was respectful and I should have responded in kind.

It’s okay to admit you were just wrong and I made a good point.

sukhmel ,

Somehow, as of lately, when people start to talk about rationality it is mostly about some bizarre stuff like bombing datacenters or living in a country that leads an aggressive war because you earn more.

Maybe it’s just a survivor bias and everyone is about bizarre stuff in these times, though

matlag ,

I use to say “all extremes call for their opposite”. Since almost no information ever transpires about this whole scandal, the opposite is to release all the names to the public. It was to be expected. If we were trusting the justice system, this would seem inappropriate. But we have what we have, and making the whole list public is the only guarantee we have that not one of the “bad” guy can escape public’s attention. That of course, is valid only if the list is comprehensive and some names have not already been taken out.

It is indeed unfortunate that a lot of people who didn’t deserve and didn’t want any bad attention will get some.

I’m not saying I agree with the move. I’m saying it was to be expected.

[Edit made: grammar & missing words]

EatATaco ,

making the whole list public is the only guarantee we have that not one of the “bad” guy can escape public’s attention.

Problem is that we don’t know if this is the case. It was noted in the article that some people were able to get their names retracted already and that she is leaving time for other people to plead their case. We all know, and this part of the reason for lack of trust in the legal system, that it favors the rich…so for all I know it’s rich likely guilty people who were able to pay for a lawyer to argue to get themselves removed, while some poor regular joe got caught up in an email for God knows what innocent reason, who is going to get harassed by the mindless mob.

Expected? Maybe. A bad move, almost certainly. People want blood when it comes to Epstein and when that happens rationality takes a back seat.

Franzia ,

Saying “people are stupid so we shouldn’t have information” is so anti-humanist. Mob mentality. We have courts, why does public opinion matter? Its actually up to these important people to protect their image if its worth so much - but they don’t, they’re living their lives. Often with even less moral consideration than a regular guy.

And your call to wealth being a shield from danger? Bill gates seems to have lost his marriage over his involvement with Epstein. And that Prince guy in Britain, the rest of the royal family talks shit about him.

EatATaco ,

You’re really arguing with me that rich people fair better in the legal system?

Franzia ,

Well those crimes were ages ago. Who would prosecute them? Yeah, it won’t even go to trial. If they are guilty, which… Like you said, gonna be tough to prove. Rich people absolutely do better at every step of our legal system.

EatATaco ,

I’m talking about having their names released to the public, which people are going to basically equate to being a child molester, not being convicted of any crimes.

Franzia ,

I think theres a good chance people will be more understanding about it. On Epstein’s original flight list, I xan only remember the names of people who visited a LOT. And even then, some of the people who only visited a few times turned out to be child molesters. So we can’t know for sure.

EvilEyedPanda ,

Uh-oh, we bout to have a dead judge!

EatATaco ,

It’s sad that every post the top level comments are these low effort posts. I was really hoping posters like you would just stay with reddit.

Halosheep ,

It’s sad that every thread at some point has these low effort complaints. I was really hoping you would just stop being boring as hell.

chitak166 ,

I agree with him, though.

Some of you people are reddit-brained beyond repair.

1luv8008135 ,

You people? The fuck do you mean you people? Were you born out the arsehole of Christ himself? Get the fuck outta here with your holier than thou self righteousness. This is a free and open public forum. Don’t like it? Fuck off elsewhere. Poop

sukhmel ,

I agree with him, though. It was much better on Nibiru watching human gladiators fighting Mi-Go in the death pit.

chitak166 ,

I rest my case.

jeremyparker ,

You don’t have a “case,” you have an opinion that amounts to no-true-Scotsman. If any of these posts are “Reddit brained,” but yours is somehow not, then “Reddit brained” is an empty concept you fill with whatever you don’t like. Your post, like the ones you’re criticizing, is short, low-effort, unfriendly, critical, and contributes nothing to the discussion. You’re just expressing the opinion that you’re unhappy - and, as far as I can tell, no one asked. If you’re allowed to post your irrelevant, negative opinion, then why aren’t they?

If you don’t like other people, with different motives, interests, and moods, joining your social media platforms, I have bad news.

Although, this is the fediverse - you could make your own server and just defederate every time you’re about to make a post like you did here. The rest of us would be grateful to see less toxicity around here.

chitak166 ,

Okay.

pomodoro_longbreak ,
@pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

Don’t be obtuse, you know exactly what they meant: low effort “quippy,” dare I say it: Whedon-esque comments, that you can predict before even opening the comments.

jeremyparker ,

I’m not being obtuse, I’m pointing out that that person is full of shit. His/her “contribution” is just as garbage as the posts they criticized.

pomodoro_longbreak ,
@pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

But I really really agree with it. I’d like to see the culture around here step up a little bit. Circlejerks and shitposting communities are one thing, but not everything has to be a joke. And certainly not the same joke, over and over again and again.

1luv8008135 ,

Okay

pomodoro_longbreak ,
@pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s exactly the kind of cynical doomerism I was looking to get away from

Zink ,

If we can’t joke about serious current events in our nerdy little federated corner of the internet, then what is life even for?

EatATaco ,

I guess I just find it sad that low effort infinitely recycled jokes are what make it to the top, when we can actually have a decent discussion about something.

Zink ,

I come here for both, and I tend to find both.

I get what you’re saying, and if it’s a matter of the low effort snarky/funny stuff rising to the top because of upvotes, that’s probably a systemic problem. Short quick posts will have more people read them to completion, so that probably makes upvotes more likely.

However, I bet thoughtful comments also get rewarded with further discussion in replies.

EatATaco ,

, I bet thoughtful comments also get rewarded with further discussion in replies.

If they agree with the general opinion, sure they won’t get buried, but you still have to wade through the shit to get to them.

But if it’s a dissenting opinion, even if it makes logical sense, or even just has the facts straight, it will get buried.

I just miss the days that the internet wasn’t just snarky low effort jokes and memes and you could actually find decent discussions.

Lurker ,

They are. In other comments. Some comments are just bad jokes. You can scroll past if they upset you.

VaultBoyNewVegas ,

God forbid the guy blocks users so he doesn’t see “low effort” comments.

SPRUNT ,

The reason they make it to the top is precisely because they are low-effort and infinitely recycled. Many different users think of them as a response, then see the comment and upvote it because “same”. It’s not that the joke is good or not, it’s that I thought of it and it was already there, so have an upvote.

If you want a decent discussion about something, maybe replying to a low-effort joke response isn’t the way to go about it. The great thing about the Fediverse is that you yourself choose what to interact with and what to ignore. If you are interacting with something you’d rather ignore, maybe that’s something to ponder on a personal level.

EatATaco ,

My problem is that it just begets more low effort posts; if people see that by making these low level comments, they are going to be rewarded with attention, then it just encourages more of that.

Additionally, on top of that, if people see that putting effort into posting thoughtful responses doesn’t get the same reward, they are less likely to do so.

Ive seen it happen numerous times on reddit where small niche subs were originally very good with mostly high quality conversations and discussions, but eventually those original people got crowded out by the influx of low level posts, and many of the people simple left (it was kind of like how the universe or TrueReddit subs came about).

I get there isn’t much to be done about it, or at least I can’t think of it, but I still think it’s important to bemoan something that is actually bad for high quality discussions.

JoeBigelow ,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

Dude you’re at a circus crying about all the clowns.

SPRUNT ,

something that is actually bad for high quality discussions

This is purely a matter of opinion, proven by the fact that, not only do I have no issue with a joke comment thrown around in serious posts, I prefer the minor chuckle as a break from the soul-crushing reality that is everyday news.

I’ll, once gain, point to the fact that you are the one choosing to engage these comments. It takes more effort to downvote, and immensely more effort to type out a reply, than it does to just scroll on by. When I walk into my local 7-11 to get down on a Coke-Banana Slurpee and some Takis, I don’t start bitching and moaning about the fake penis enlargement pills and trucker speed I see along the way. I head to what I’m interested in, pay the man, and make like a baby.

The world is full of shit I don’t want to deal with and would rather not see, but I don’t control the rest of the world. Learn how to make peace with that and you’ll be a lot happier.

EatATaco ,

I’ll, once gain, point to the fact that you are the one choosing to engage these comments.

Already addressed, I think it brings down the level of discussion overall, which you just handwaved away as opinion. But if it’s my opinion, then shouldn’t I speak up? And if you disagree with the reason I’m posting, shouldn’t you take your own advice and simply move on rather than trying to correct me?

SPRUNT ,

But if it’s my opinion, then shouldn’t I speak up?

Because opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and they all stink. Throwing your opinion out there when no one asked for it is like breaking wind because you appreciate your own brand. And I will admit, guilty as charged.

chitak166 ,

You can do it, that doesn’t mean people have to like it.

postmateDumbass ,

Producing value for the ruling class, idiot.

Zink ,

Dang it, you caught me Lemmying at work again!

postmateDumbass ,

At least you’re a useful idiot!

It is those useless idiots that really have a hard go of it.

recapitated ,

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution in furthering this conversation, and your exemplary interpersonal skills.

ghastly_03_startup ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    EatATaco ,

    Literally nothing in between low-effort recycled jokes and academic level discussions. But you’re still right, I should probably create an instance.

    pomodoro_longbreak ,
    @pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I might join you. I know some k8s and shit, if you need a hand admin-ing. Actually since my instance is likely federating with threads, I was looking at pulling my account and donation eventually anyway.

    thisIsaSuperPrivate ,

    It is low effort, but, it’s a likely outcome. Not every comment needs to be a masterful literary work to be relevant.

    EatATaco ,

    it’s a likely outcome.

    Lol

    Also lol @ the idea that there is nothing between these low effort posts and masterful literary work.

    thisIsaSuperPrivate ,

    Enjoy myopia I guess? Look, it might not be true, but it’s not so far fetched either. Her father appears to be mossad. I don’t know. With more, actual info, we could draw a factual conclusion. I’m not going to blinker myself though for something that’s totally a viable outcome.

    EatATaco ,

    Look, it might not be true,

    No, almost certainly won’t be true.

    And if you think it’s even remotely likely that this will happen, it’s not me being being myopic.

    thisIsaSuperPrivate ,

    Just totally impossible huh? OK.

    EatATaco ,

    Considering you think that “almost certainly” and “totally impossible” are the same thing, I guess your position should come as no surprise.

    fosforus ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    AnarchistsForDemocracy ,
    @AnarchistsForDemocracy@lemmy.world avatar

    trump was accused of raping a 13 year old girl together with jeffrey epstein. This supposedly happened at Mar a Lago.

    here is the whole story

    KneeTitts ,
    @KneeTitts@lemmy.world avatar

    Funny how we’ve never seen any pictures of Biden with Epstein, but we have dozens of Trump with Epstein and we know they were friends for over a decade, and you still think they are “both bad people”

    Fleamo ,

    Trump appeared on Epstein’s flight logs at least 7 times confirmed in a court of law it’s not even conjecture to say he is on there.

    There is literally no evidence or reason to believe Biden is on the list.

    But BoTh sIdEs

    jeremyparker ,

    Clinton is the same person as Obama who is the same person as Biden so Biden is basically on there.

    recapitated ,

    Clinton probably. I don’t love Biden, but I don’t see it here.

    Suavevillain ,
    @Suavevillain@lemmy.world avatar

    I hope that judge is well protected and this isn’t an edited list of people.

    USSEthernet ,

    Anyone who did not successfully fight to keep their name out of the civil case could see their name become public – including Epstein’s victims, co-conspirators and innocent associates.

    Well, this tells us that we probably won’t see any notable people in the release then…

    CyberDine ,

    “Anyone not powerful, rich or politically-connected enough to scrub their names from the record will be shown.”

    This is 100% going to fuck all of the victims and none of the perpetrators.

    Son_of_dad ,

    Noam Chomsky once said that his dealings and business with Epstein were none of our business and we should fuck off. I hope we get to find out more about his and other rich people’s dealings with Epstein

    neige ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Empricorn ,

    Judging an entire race… Are you from the past?

    phoenixz ,

    Oh noes, somebody from a different race than mine, he must be bad!

    Go get fucked by an umbrella

    JoeBigelow ,
    @JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

    Why don’t you enlighten us as to what significance that has instead of dogwhistling

    Akasazh ,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    Source?

    fosforus ,

    insider.com/noam-chomsky-mit-wsj-wall-street-jour…

    fosforus ,

    insider.com/noam-chomsky-mit-wsj-wall-street-jour…

    Akasazh ,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    “What was known about Jeffrey Epstein was that he had been convicted of a crime and had served his sentence,” Chomsky told the Journal about his meetings. "According to U.S. laws and norms, that yields a clean slate.

    That’s not a bad argument. He said the discussed politics and philosophy. Nothing suggests that there was any minors involved.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I don’t see why he wouldn’t want that to be public knowledge. What Epstein did was so awful you really would want to clear your name if you had any connection to the man.

    sukhmel ,

    I agree with you, but also I have seen many times how trigger-happy internet crowd may be. Maybe he thinks that nobody will read an explanation past the first word. Or maybe he’s guilty of abuses, we’ll hopefully see

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    It is freaken Chomsky. Have you heard his name one time? Congratulations, you now have an opinion about him. And said opinion is very very extreme.

    The man is either an intellectual titan in a wide variety of fields and the one consistent voice of morality for +60 years or batshit insane impractical plagiarism commiting fraud who thinks the best thing western civilization can do is suicide while leaving an apology note. Nothing in between.

    sukhmel ,

    Wow, yeah, I only heard part of it, think I should go read a bit

    grue ,

    I don’t see why he wouldn’t want that to be public knowledge. What Epstein did was so awful you really would want to clear your name if you had any connection to the man.

    Richard Stallman got cancelled for trying to clear Marvin Minsky’s name. Not only had Minsky himself not actually done anything wrong, but Stallman wasn’t even connected to Epstein except in a “six degrees of Kevin Bacon” sort of way. Yet he got kicked off the Free Software Foundation board for it anyway (at least until ‘truth got its boots on’ and folks came to their senses and reinstated him).

    That’s how absolutely radioactive this shit is.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    Richard Stallman got “cancelled” because he was sexually harassing everybody with boobs and walking on two legs and had been for decades according to people who dealt with him at work and conferences. Oh I am sorry were you hoping I didn’t know about that?

    stetech ,

    You’re not seriously citing Stallman as someone who should be defended, are you?

    drewdevault.com/…/2023-11-26-RMS-on-sex.html

    S_204 ,

    Chomsky lost his mind decades ago, he’s for sure on the list and would probably justify it in some pseudoscientific bs way.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    Meanwhile advocating for Ukraine to just lay down and die

    itsgroundhogdayagain ,

    Until another judge says it will stay sealed.

    yoz ,

    Why would a judge say that? Like are they defending the corrupt ? Genuinely curious

    Dragomus ,

    They’ll unseal them but all envelopes contain only an “I Owe You” from Trump, and under his signature he wrote in small font “I declassified them after I took them home”

    Sami_Uso ,

    You know Dems were in that book, too, right?

    Lemminary ,

    I don’t think anybody is making this a partisan issue.

    Chakravanti ,

    Guillotine them all.

    Sami_Uso ,

    Right, so just a Trump issue, then?

    Lemminary ,

    I don’t know how that follows

    tastysnacks ,

    He’s trying to feel like a victim

    Sami_Uso ,

    How is pointing out the fact that members of both political parties were named as acquaintances of a known pedophile “trying to feel like a victim”? Seeing the Trump comments under every single Epstein post is super hilarious and everything, but I don’t see very many posts about Hillary or Bill. Just trying to make sure they’re all accounted for, not just the guys we already don’t like.

    grue ,

    False equivalence. Trump is running for President again, which makes mentioning him relevant in a way that mentioning others is not.

    Sami_Uso ,

    Gimme a break, Hillary just came out publicly as a “key player” in the Biden campaign. Mentioning Dems affiliation with pedophiles is absolutely relevant.

    tastysnacks ,

    No. You pointed out Bill and so someone responded to kill them all. And you had issue with that. Why? You tried to make it all about Trump to play the victim. Otherwise why would you have a problem will killing bill too.

    Sami_Uso ,

    You’re mixing up my comments and other people’s comments lol I never responded in any way to the person saying “guiottine them all”. Get your facts straight before you get all bent out of shape next time, bud.

    Edit: just because the comment is below another doesn’t mean it’s a response, you have to follow the drop down lines fyi

    T00l_shed ,

    Boo hoo, throw the book at them too.

    No_Ones_Slick_Like_Gaston ,

    If they’re fucking kids send them all to jail, like they did to Matt Gaetz

    Chakravanti ,

    Guillotine.

    figaro ,

    Idk why you are pointing this out. Fuck all of them, regardless of politics. If Trump is in there, jail. If Biden is in there, jail.

    Sami_Uso ,

    Because I see comments about Trump under every Epstein, and there were way more politicians than Trump included in that passenger manifest. Is it offensive to you that I pointed that out or something?

    ChewTiger ,

    The thing is he’s running for president and likes to accuse people of things. It makes sense people are going to look towards him first when shit starts flying around. Dudes into shady stuff, spent decades ripping people off or “getting a good deal” depending on your disposition.

    Regardless, let them all burn, let’s find someone competent in the ashes. If someone is corrupt it’s in all our best interests to dump them, regardless of political affiliation, and find someone who believes in more than themselves.

    Sami_Uso ,

    Fair enough, I just wanna make sure they are all held accountable, not just the guys we already dislike. I’m all for Trump facing a firing squad, I just sort of feel like we’ve gotten to a place where those kind of people don’t really feel the same squeeze of justice that us 99%ers do.

    LEDZeppelin ,

    It’s Deja vu all over again

    paddirn ,

    Unsealed BUT with copious amounts of black marker used on the list to cover up names.

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