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words_number ,

Um actually… Opera and Edge weren’t always based on chromium!

LeTak ,

Chrome was not always based on chromeium. Chrome was based on Apple WebKit until 2013 when they forked WebKit and made the Blink engine.

Dapado ,

Chromium was still the base before the WebKit/Blink fork. Chrome and Chromium were released simultaneously in 2008.

fidodo ,

Chromium has always existed. Originally it was wrapping web kit and later they forked web kit into blink and diverged from Web kit. Chromium is a level above the engine.

ElPussyKangaroo ,

Wha- hold up… I’m not sure I understand…

Chrome was based on WebKit?

I’m not aware about the old stuff as much so if someone could fill me in…

Dapado ,

WebKit is a rendering engine which is one of the major components of a web browser. Chrome/Chromium was released in 2008 using a modified version of WebKit as its rendering engine. Eventually in 2013 they created a fork of WebKit called Blink, which is the current rendering engine for Chrome/Chromium.

exu ,

In more history, WebKit is a fork of KHTML. That’s the reason why WebKit itself is open source.

Apparently there hasn’t been active maintenance since 2016 though and it’s officially dead since this year. RIP

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML

seitanic ,
@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Remember Konqueror? That’s KDE’s web browser, which still uses KHTML. I should try it out again and see how it’s held up.

Phrodo_00 ,

I’m not sure, but didn’t Konqueror switch to qtwebkit at some point? Or was that a different qt-based browser?

clubb ,
@clubb@lemmy.world avatar

I think thats falkon

Espi ,

I have an installer for Opera 12.18, the last one to use their Presto engine. Every once in a while I test it out to see how it has aged.

It's not pretty haha. It barely works.

jetsetdorito ,

I miss pre chromium Opera so much lol, lot of nostalgia

Tavarin ,
@Tavarin@lemmy.ca avatar

My favourite browser, abandoned it when they went chromium. RIP in peace Opera.

narc0tic_bird ,

Pre-Chromium Edge wasn’t even that bad. Sure, the engine had its issues and there was probably a bit of Edge-specific JS on some websites, but I’m sure they would’ve eventually got there.

But seeing that even Microsoft abandoned making their own browser engine, it goes to show how complex it is to make one nowadays and with new web APIs/features coming out every few weeks it feels like, it’s almost impossible to keep up.

TAG ,
@TAG@lemmy.world avatar

But seeing that even Microsoft abandoned making their own browser engine, it goes to show how complex it is to make one nowadays and with new web APIs/features coming out every few weeks it feels like, it’s almost impossible to keep up.

No, Microsoft is just historically bad at making browsers. It was not until Internet Explorer 7 that they finally implemented HTML 4 and CSS 2 without major glaring bugs.

Aux ,

Microsoft was never bad at making browsers, their issue is that they tied browser release to Windows release cycle. IE6 was the best and the most compatible browser on the market in its release date. But it didn’t get a single update during its long life. 5 years old Chrome is completely useless today even if it was a pinnacle back then.

Bene7rddso ,

Most compatible to what, itself?

Aux ,

To existing web standards at the time.

TAG ,
@TAG@lemmy.world avatar

Sure, but Windows Update was already part of the OS and web users were a customer segment that had an Internet connection. They could have pushed patches and bug fixes.

Aux ,

That’s not Microsoft philosophy. Microsoft has strong backwards compatibility. If they would change how border box is rendered on the screen, that would break a lot of apps which use IE engine as a web view. Thus they only push security updates, but ensure that rendering stays the same within one Windows version.

TWeaK ,

Opera was the shit back in the early days. It could pretend to be any other browser.

seitanic ,
@seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Can’t you do that with any browser by changing the user agent?

glibg10b ,

Yeah:

Sent from Internet Explorer 9

TWeaK ,

I’m not sure how long you’ve been able to change the user agent in config pages tbh, I just remember Opera had it as an option in the GUI settings and even the right click menu.

Catweazle ,
@Catweazle@vivaldi.net avatar

@TWeaK @seitanic,also Vivaldi

https://file.coffee/u/QOBRX5BHuQU5Etg6GN6A8.png

nexguy ,
@nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

Always weren’t been

Hupf ,

Always been’t

kemsat ,

But they are now…

kniescherz ,

Right but that meme says ‘always has been’.

kemsat ,

For the majority of current users, that’s the point. For them it always has been.

anarchoplayworker ,
@anarchoplayworker@lemmy.world avatar

Also there’s now a DuckDuckGo browser!

fox2263 ,

Which uses the OS web view. So on macOS it’s the safari engine.

gamey ,
@gamey@feddit.rocks avatar

Everything on iOS uses Safari tho, Apple doesn’t allow other browser engines but at least they don’t nerf the Webkit version for third parties anymore!

Norgrimm ,

macOS != iOS

gamey ,
@gamey@feddit.rocks avatar

I specifically mention iOS in the first sentence and then say Apple is doing it in the next!

SimplePhysics ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    gamey ,
    @gamey@feddit.rocks avatar

    I specifically mention iOS in the first sentence and then say Apple is doing it in the next…

    SimplePhysics ,

    Oi, sorry, misread.

    staticnoise ,

    That is going to chance soon and Apple will be forced to allow other web engines, as well as other app stores.

    gamey ,
    @gamey@feddit.rocks avatar

    At least in the EU, luckily I from a EU citizen!

    beckerist ,

    This is why I’ve stuck with firefox through thick and thin

    sexy_peach ,

    If they ever fuck up big time I’ll go with the next obscure option.

    TAG ,
    @TAG@lemmy.world avatar

    What else is there that is not Chromium/Webkit based?

    Kata1yst ,
    @Kata1yst@kbin.social avatar

    Now that KHTML is dead, not very much at all.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_browser_engines

    exu ,

    The SerenityOS browser! /s kinda

    AceFuzzLord ,

    If a dedicated team wanted to work on it, there is the Servo engine which is currently developed by The Linux Foundation but is apparently entirely volunteer driven.

    I’m not smart enough to do this kinda shit, but I’m sure there are plenty of others who would gladly work on it to make it bigger than it already is. You could then make your own browser based on that engine. Sure it would take years if not closer to over a decade, but the payoff for privacy and free web would be enough to make me spend all that time doing it.

    hai ,
    @hai@lemmy.ml avatar

    NetSurf

    JokeDeity ,

    Been using FF for about 2 decades now and I have never seen a single good reason to switch.

    EricKendrick ,
    @EricKendrick@feddit.uk avatar

    Ditto. As much as people pretend Firefox is niche, it is the only browser with lineage back to the start of the web.

    Dashmaybe ,

    Truly. I don’t get this new “switch to Firefox!!” hype, are the people writing this very young, or am I missing something? I’ve been using Firefox since beta, I’ve never seen a reason to switch since it’s always been the superior browser, why have people been running anything else in the first place?

    Singar ,

    I made the switch to Lemmy. Time to do the same with Firefox I guess.

    MrSilkworm ,
    @MrSilkworm@lemmy.world avatar

    Firefox with add-ons. Especially, but not only, Ublock Origin.

    Nioxic ,

    So you mean Librewolf

    JokeDeity ,

    IMO any of the forks are inherently weaker than the main and there’s nothing stopping you from making Firefox work exactly like whichever flavor of fork you prefer, but with security updates the day they come out.

    stewie3128 ,

    I also just like to support Mozilla where I can. They’re not perfect, but they’re doing a lot more good for the internet than Google are.

    eestileib ,

    NoScript 🤌🏻

    vii ,

    You can use Ublock Origin in advanced mode, which allows you to block, blacklist/whitelist scripts.

    persolb ,

    I love it in theory… but it just broke so many websites I needed to use. And not always in obvious ways.

    navi ,
    @navi@lemmy.tespia.org avatar

    uBlock does this occasionally as well. Still worth it.

    persolb ,

    UBlock is much more reliable than no script in my experience. It’s also usually obvious when it breaks; no script sometimes isn’t obvious until you hit submit and notice none of what you typed actually got sent.

    z3rOR0ne , (edited )

    Then just put those sites on your trust list?

    You can go through all the sites the initial HTTP request calls out to and decide which ones get a pass. This is how I ensure sites like gstatic, googletagmanager, etc. don’t collect data even though the rest of the site works.

    If that’s too much, just open the flood gates for that site and trust everything there. At least it isn’t just sending all your data out by DEFAULT.

    Aux ,

    That still breaks a lot of sites. For example, Wikipedia gets broken if you click any link and then navigate back. NoScript is just crap. If you want to actually block scripts for something without breaking everything else, use DevTools.

    z3rOR0ne ,

    I call bs. I am not experiencing that on mobile or desktop this behavior you’re describing. NoScript does not break Wikipedia.

    Aux ,

    It does it on my phone. 100% repeatable.

    hai ,
    @hai@lemmy.ml avatar

    You can use Wikiless, an alternative frontend for Wikipedia which doesn’t have JavaScript, and LibRedirect.

    gammasfor , (edited )

    Yeah these days literally every website uses JavaScript in some format as modern reactive design is easier to do if you can execute client side code. Blocking JavaScript is a sledgehammer solution to the problem.

    OfficerBribe ,

    Same here. I used NoScript in the past and remembering whitelisting way too often so dumped it in the end. Now I just use uBlock with I think some built-in javascript block of known bad hosts.

    exu ,

    uBlock Origin can act as adblocker plus NoScript combined if you enable advanced mode.

    Mikina ,

    Add-ons are a pretty huge security risk, though. Someone was just posting an article about how tempting it is to sell out with your extension, and how many offers you actually get.

    And I’ve already been burned once, and it’s not pretty. Also nothing you can do against this.

    The best solution is actually not Firefox, but Mullvad. No need for extensions, based on Tor Browser and can be bundled with a VPN that’s full of other people using the same browser - so you have exactly the same fingerprint, and they can’t tell you apart. Not by extensions, not by IP.

    exu ,

    Based on his history it seems unlikely that gorhill, the creator of uBlock Origin would sell out.
    And if something did change, there would be enough news about it to notify you. (Like the extension Avast bought a while ago)

    Aux ,

    Really? The whole story about uBlock and uBlock Origin is shady AF.

    exu ,

    Which is why I think he won’t ever risk it again.

    Aux ,

    Really?

    Holzkohlen ,

    How about crowdfunding for adblockers? Now THAT is something I’d gladly pay money for.

    stillwater ,

    It’s pretty shitty to lump uBlock Origin in with those other, shittier ad blockers blindly. After all, anyone who knew the first thing about ad blockers even back then knew that there were plenty of bad ones around but that uBO wasn’t one of them.

    WatchMySixWillYa ,

    From this band, I get more and more in love with Vivaldi, especially their Workspaces feature.

    Kichae ,

    Yeah, I use Vivaldi at work. I love it.

    It's not on my personal devices, but if work is going to default to Chrome anyway, I may as well be using the best version of it.

    Imgonnatrythis ,

    I went whole hog. The sync features are great between computer and phone app (phone app is excellent!) and they actively disable all the terrible shit from chrome. It works with bing/chat gpt too which is nice. They have been very vocal against Google proposed changes and I’m confident they will work around them if at all possible. If not, hell yeah, I’m jumping ship, but I give Vivaldi a lot of credit for what they’ve done this far. I’m hanging in there for now.

    Xyz ,
    @Xyz@infosec.pub avatar

    I tried FF the other day instead of Vivaldi and I was like, no scroll wheel to switch tabs? No quick commands? No workspaces? Ugh I am prepared to keep using a chromium engine rather than give up all the “power user” features. It’s just sooo good.

    Been using gestures for so long I constantly catch myself using them in other apps where it doesn’t work and getting frustrated at myself.

    WatchMySixWillYa ,

    I know, right?

    I’m currently using both browsers, and I’ve been with FF for a very long time. But the things that come with Vivaldi from the very beginning make it my daily driver.

    gamey ,
    @gamey@feddit.rocks avatar

    I just wish Mozilla didn’t just tread Gecko as part of Firefox, the few who tried developing on it came to the conclusion that it’s not sustainable if the engines developer doesn’t give a fuck about you! :/

    Aurenkin ,

    Damn, that sounds like a real missed opportunity. Hopefully they come around on that one.

    gamey ,
    @gamey@feddit.rocks avatar

    Well, they always did it like that and basically cut all their bigger projects in the massive layoff so I wish they did too but I doubt it :/

    Neato ,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    Learned Electron is also chromium. So Foundry vtt is as well...

    Kata1yst ,
    @Kata1yst@kbin.social avatar

    So just use it in a tab of Firefox? I literally had no idea of an electron version of Foundry until this instant.

    Neato ,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    It's not an electron version. Foundry the program IS electron. When you run the executable, it's running electron (chromium). This also makes Foundry run like crap in non-chromium browsers and isn't recommended.

    andthenthreemore ,
    @andthenthreemore@startrek.website avatar

    It was a sad day when Opera dropped presto.

    IHeartBadCode ,
    @IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

    We wanted HTML as complex as Adobe Flash. When we got it, the standard became so complex no way smaller players that didn't dedicate massive resources to keeping up could possibly keep up.

    There was just no way to keep presto up to date with the ever evolving web without a massive new source of income for Opera.

    Swarfega ,

    What’s the source imagine from in this meme?

    Spudwart OP ,

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3a910aef-40a3-4ce7-8cbf-ac68a1f92f18.png

    Swarfega ,

    Thanks, is it from a movie?

    OfficerBribe ,

    Probably not, feel free to dig deeper if you wish.

    Maguz ,

    Firefox user since before it was called Firefox.

    papabobolious ,

    Firebird gang

    Brazzburry ,

    There’s a Phoenix metaphor here somewhere

    TAG ,
    @TAG@lemmy.world avatar

    Mozilla browser was great.

    Null ,
    @Null@pawb.social avatar

    Netscape was amazing

    Hoagie ,
    @Hoagie@lemmy.ca avatar

    I remember using Netscape to search the web with Altavista way back in the day.

    lolcatnip ,

    This is a fucking childish take. If you don’t like what Google is doing with Chromium that’s one thing, but acting as if the code itself is evil is just straight-up magical thinking.

    MaliciousKebab ,

    The thing is, Google has so much influence on chromium that even if you don’t use Chrome, using chromium based browsers means you still help google maintain its monopoly on web. Only real alternatives are Firefox, Librewolf etc.

    sexy_peach ,

    The code itself is a monoculture of browsers.

    Spudwart OP ,

    Chromium is controlled by Google.

    Browsers down steam on Chromium will either pull from chromium or fork from it.

    They hold >75% of global browser market share.

    They make a change, like enforcing Web Environment Integrity API, you either comply or your competing chromium browser will.

    Catweazle ,
    @Catweazle@vivaldi.net avatar

    @Spudwart @lolcatnip, wrong, Chromium is FOSS and every browsercompany is free to gutt it out and modify it to their like, it's not more controlled by Google than Gecko with several Google devs working in Mozilla on Firefox.
    The Problem is Google itself with it's imperialistic behavior in internet, not which browser you use. This is precisely why he invented this WEI crap, because previous attempts to control it through Browser engine APIs didn't work.

    bdonvr ,

    Sure, in theory.

    But putting in the work to maintain a Chromium fork whose engine significantly differs from upstream? Especially over time as more changes are made that you’ll want to remove, and new features you DO want rely on some you DON’T…

    Takes a lot of dev time/money.

    Realistically other than Microsoft I don’t think any of the alternative Chromium browsers have the resources.

    And most users are going to be on a browser fully confirming to pretty much all engine changes Google makes.

    In reality, the larger Chromium’s market share - the bigger Google’s iron fist on web development.

    lolcatnip ,

    Just because nobody else wants to do the work Google is doing, that doesn’t mean Google controls it. It just means people who have a lot more skin in the game than you do have looked at the situation and decided that making use of Google’s work is the best way for them to achieve their goals.

    lolcatnip ,

    You’re using a very strange definition of “control”.

    AncientBlueberry ,

    Google accounts for some 80%+ of Mozilla’s revenue. Firefox struck a different kind of deal with the devil than chromium browsers, but Google is the one pulling the strings.

    c0mbatbag3l ,
    @c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

    Sshhhhhh you’ll destroy the narrative!

    HappyFrog ,

    What narrative? Firefox is the only browser google doesn’t fully control. It’s the only choice if you don’t support the google monopoly.

    drathvedro ,

    Well, there’s Safari but that’s for apple only, and technically they don’t really control chromium-based browsers - they’d have to do yet another cycle of EEE to actually kill of competition. And firefox can survive without google for a while by downsizing massively and focusing on chinese market as they still have that baidu deal AFAIK.

    But overall, yes, Google has in fact cemented themselves as the middlemen for all things internet, on both mobile and desktop.

    solivine ,
    @solivine@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Could you expand on this

    gorysubparbagel ,

    Google pays Mozilla in exchange for google being Firefox’s default search engine

    can ,

    I see that as an okay compromise. Anyone who cares will also know how to change it easily.

    SpaceCowboy ,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    And I actually wouldn’t have a problem with using google for searches if it weren’t for the fact they constantly do the captcha thing when I’m connecting via VPN. Captchas for a simple google search.

    I’m not against google making money off of a good product, but they’ve enshittified it too much to be considered good now.

    Andrew15_5 ,

    Bruh, I just checked google.com again after a long time… Damn, I forgot that it was so annoying. Have been using ddg for years — no problem.

    Aux ,

    Stop using public VPN, problem solved.

    archchan ,

    A lot of people don’t bother with changing defaults and corpos like Google, Microsoft, and the likes are well aware of this which is why Google pays Mozilla hundreds of millions of dollars per year to be the default search engine.

    I understand the compromise at the surface level but the implications just result in Google gaining more power and data, making it harder for “alternatives” to replace it over time which puts us all in an a bad situation when they decide to pull shit like WEI.

    can ,

    That’s a good point, though I still think the average person is already entrenched in Google. Being the default on an alternative browser isn’t really going to make the difference to the average, uncaring individual.

    In a perfect world it wouldn’t be necessary but on the bright side Google search is already doing enough itself to make the average person want to try something else.

    letsgocrazy ,

    Yeah that’s hardly a game changer.

    CrabAndBroom ,

    Bit of a weird thought, but I wonder also if they see Mozilla as a sort of controlled opposition too? As in, keep Firefox around so they don’t get in trouble over antitrust or something like that?

    merc ,

    Mozilla.org is the corpse of Netscape that Google keeps animated so that it looks like they have competition when they really don’t.

    The existence of Firefox is something they can point to to say they’re not a monopoly. The fact that 80% of the revenue Firefox receives is from Google means that Google effectively controls them. Mozilla has to weigh every decision against the risk that it will cause Google to withdraw their funding. That severely restricts the choices they’re willing to consider.

    Firefox is only 5% of browsers, so it really doesn’t matter to Google if that 5% of users considers using a different search engine. Because of the Firefox user base, many of them will have already switched search engines, and because Google is such a dominant player, many others would switch back to Google if the browser used a different default. So, maybe 10% of that 5% would permanently switch search engines if Google stopped paying. Is that really worth billions per year? Probably not. But, pretending like you have competitors in the browser space and using that to push back on antitrust, that’s definitely worth billions per year.

    SpaceCowboy ,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Google makes something like $100 Billion a year in search ad revenue. 5% of that is $5 Billion.

    It’s odd that people think Google is incredibly worried about having too large of a market share in the browser market (which they don’t make any money from) yet their 92% market share in searches is not concerning at all in terms of the potential for regulation.

    The truth is nobody does anti-trust anymore (though they definitely should) and the big corporations aren’t worried at all about it. Google makes Chrome, Android, and pays Mozilla because they want to maintain dominance in the search market. Which is the thing they make money form. What they pay Mozilla is a drop in the bucket compared to what they pay Apple to be the default search engine on their devices.

    merc ,

    Google doesn’t directly make money from their browser, but controlling their browser means they lock in the thing that drives their revenues. They can always test it out against all their ads and make sure it works, putting out a fix if it ever doesn’t. We’ve also seen recently how they’re trying to make it so people can’t run ad blockers, something they could only consider if they lock down the entire browser market.

    DogMuffins ,

    I disagree.

    Google doesn’t “control” mozilla in that way.

    They can always test it out against all their ads and make sure it works, putting out a fix if it ever doesn’t.

    They could do this even if they weren’t funding mozilla. Ad’s aren’t exactly reliant on bleeding edge web standards anyway. You’re thinking about tracking tech, which they don’t have any input in for firefox.

    We’ve also seen recently how they’re trying to make it so people can’t run ad blockers

    Well yes, and mozilla was quite vocal in their opposition, demonstrating that Google doesn’t have much control over them.

    DogMuffins ,

    Do you have any examples of how google is pulling the strings at Mozilla ?

    kylostillreigns ,
    @kylostillreigns@lemmy.world avatar

    For an example, Mozilla being forced to use Google Location Services as default even though Mozilla has its own. I am also a Firefox user but it always makes me wonder what other TnCs forced on Mozilla as part of the search deal.

    leanleft ,
    @leanleft@lemmy.ml avatar

    go to about:config and type “google”

    CrypticCoffee ,

    For default search.

    I’m sure you’re aware Firefox isn’t in the search market. They are in the browser market and need to fund browser development. They’ve used Yahoo in the past and will go with whatever deal gives the best value. They could go with Bing if they wanted.

    Funding from them does not mean control, and your insinuation is misleading and false.

    kvinayak99 , (edited )
    @kvinayak99@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m watching The Spiffing Brit’s exploit live stream right now. Firefox cannot handle that. Edge can. On linux

    interesting

    Update: Alright. Fine! Its probably extension issue

    norawibb ,
    @norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

    What? It’s just a livestream.

    mihnt ,
    @mihnt@kbin.social avatar

    I just checked it out. Seems that The Spiffing Brit is trying to break youtube or something and is having people open as many tabs of his livestream as they can to get as many views as they can.

    norawibb ,
    @norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I just checked it out. And to test, I opened 15 tabs in firefox and refreshed. Just fine lol. Not sure what problem that person has besides maybe too many firefox extensions.

    mihnt ,
    @mihnt@kbin.social avatar

    I did the same and RAM usage on went up 20% for me. Using flatpak Firefox if that makes a difference. It's still responsive though as I type this comment.

    kvinayak99 ,
    @kvinayak99@lemmy.world avatar

    Firefox Ram usage just kept going up during that stream for some reason. It was using 6GB of 8GB ram. Edge stayed at 2GB. The stream got boring after a while tho

    norawibb ,
    @norawibb@sh.itjust.works avatar

    One livestream shouldn’t be doing that. I think you got a messed up extension or something.

    kvinayak99 ,
    @kvinayak99@lemmy.world avatar

    Its probably the emote extension. He has like 20k live viewers and no slow mode, all spamming emotes and random text

    C4Phoenix ,

    You use Edge on linux?

    kvinayak99 ,
    @kvinayak99@lemmy.world avatar

    Better than chrome on linux

    84436 , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    guyrocket ,
    @guyrocket@kbin.social avatar

    I've been using Bromite too.

    Can anyone suggest a site to sideload firefox? Very unsure about what's trustworthy any more.

    84436 , (edited )

    deleted_by_author

    •
    guyrocket ,
    @guyrocket@kbin.social avatar

    Thanks for the info.

    Android, correct. And I avoid g! so I don't have a g! play acct. I do have F-droid so I will check out those you suggest.

    JokeDeity ,

    I really like Mull and it’s on FDroid I’m pretty sure. It’s a good Firefox fork.

    Aelar64 ,
    @Aelar64@kbin.social avatar

    If you use Firefox nightly (and maybe some of the other beta branches too, I'm not sure), there's a way to get any extension, they just might not work properly. I haven't really had issues with nightly, despite it being such a bleeding-edge build - although I would recommend keeping a backup browser since sometimes it decides to just stop working

    JackBruh ,

    Mozilla did say that they’re ready to bring extensions to the main branch and told devs to ready their extensions for mobile support.

    Also Bromite has not been Updated for months, I uninstalled it for that reason.

    JokeDeity ,

    I hate everything you said here.

    Anafabula ,
    @Anafabula@discuss.tchncs.de avatar
    BetaDoggo_ ,

    You can install any extension you want on the Dev version and some forks like mull by setting a custom extension collection. It’s a bit of a pain but it works.

    hi_its_me , (edited )

    Honest question… I get that Chrome has a bunch questionable privacy practices that sends data back to Google, but do the chromium based browsers do that as well? My understanding is that Chromium is just the rendering engine. How is it bad?

    Also, if Google implements their bullshit DRM features, I wonder if the derivative browsers will be able to disable it. I believe I saw that Brave said they won’t use it.

    Zuberi ,

    Yes chromium is 100% just as bad

    Ubermeisters ,

    Up to date chromium is 100% just as bad. Forked and selectively maintained version (like brave) aren’t 100% just as bad, but varying degrees well below up to maybe even slightly above this hypothetical 100% marker. Not advocating for Brave (I don’t personally use it), but the way they update is my main point here.

    Not all of chromium’s constituent components are required for a functional browser. At the end of the day, Firefox is just easier to trust and better supported than any of the chromium forks, personal opinion.

    buckykat ,

    Brave is bad for its own reasons, like the cryptocurrency scam built into it.

    Ubermeisters ,

    Like I said, I’m not advocating for it, and some forks are worse than basic chromuim.

    Shelberg ,

    Okay, but if you just ignore/disable that part of it?

    0x2d ,

    Not to mention the brave ceo

    Vilian ,

    brave also sells their ads

    Ubermeisters ,

    Pretty sure that’s what ads are made for but yeah

    sock ,

    what makes chromium bad? im a firefox user personally but im not actually sure why we dont like chromium i just know its a ram hog for my GAMING

    bdonvr ,

    Because Google controls the Chromium source.

    And when they control the vast majority of browser share (already true):

    They add non-standard features, some websites use these features which locks out browsers that follow the standards.

    Sure, you could maintain a Chromium fork that strips all the “bad” stuff. But that’s a lot of dev time and money… and it only gets worse with time as they add more. And why go through all the trouble to make your user’s experience worse?

    And now Google de-facto controls web development standards.

    The more users we can get off Chromium the better. Right now it’s literally just Firefox and Safari that are holding out.

    PixxlMan ,

    The problem is largely that it gives power to Google to implement what they want (and how they want it) and everyone else just has to go along or become incompatible with 70% of all web users

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