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reverendsteveii ,

are you the brick wall in this meme?

Vuraniute OP ,
@Vuraniute@thelemmy.club avatar

yes

pearsaltchocolatebar ,

It’s illegal for them to do that, BTW. They have to prove magisk damaged your battery.

I ran into this with Dell when they tried to claim after market RAM was the reason a CPU core wasn’t responding to interrupt requests.

All it took was asking for the diagnostic data showing that the aftermarket RAM caused it to get the warranty repair approved.

You just gotta push back until they cave. Maybe ask for their mailing address for your FTC report or for the number to their legal department (most call centers are terrified of escalating anything to the actual company).

But, don’t directly threaten legal action, because they’ll stop the call right there.

db2 ,

It’s illegal for them to do that, BTW. They have to prove magisk damaged your battery.

And you have to be able to afford those rights. If you can’t afford to sue them then you’re screwed.

chiliedogg ,

That’s where the arbitration clauses they make you agree to are actually helpful.

THEY have to pay for arbitration. You don’t need an attorney, and generally they’ll just take care of you because it’s cheaper than hiring an arbiter.

funkycarrot ,

Isn’t forced arbitration when the jury deciding on the case is on the payroll of the company you’re having the problem with in the first place?

chiliedogg ,

Not exactly.

It’s when there’s a third-party arbiter. In the case of customers seeking damages against these companies, the arbitration agencies are paid for by the company, but often there’s a list of arbiters the complainant can choose between.

My personal strategy has always been to pick the most expensive one so that whether I win or lose, the company stags to lose more money on the process than by simply making me whole.

The real reason for forced arbitration is because it makes DIY class action suits impossible.

Otherwise, a company with a class action waiver would find themselves facing 10,000 cases from the same law firm instead of 1 case with 10,000 plaintiffs.

With forced arbitration they can skip out on the cost process entirely and make the defendant do more leg work.

And, importantly, there’s no precedent with arbitration. Losing the first case doesn’t necessarily snowball into you losing the next 9,999 cases with identical facts.

funkycarrot ,

Ah, interesting…

pearsaltchocolatebar ,

If you read further, I give suggestions on how to do that without a lawyer.

It’s going to cost the company more money to call their lawyers than just doing the repair, so it usually doesn’t even take a ton of push back.

Moonrise2473 ,

I fried the battery charging chip for my HTC dream when I rooted and used it as a router for the family in holiday. I felt it was hot to the touch but I thought “it’s gonna be ok, surely it has temperature sensors and it will throttle”. High draw for a long time when charging = the chip exploded and it wouldn’t charge anymore. Luckily the battery was removable and I already got an external charger for it from dealextreme. But HTC still repaired it for free under warranty even if it was my fault and I gave to them back rooted.

Same for LG when my rooted Nexus 5X boot looped, although that was an endemic problem caused by LG shitty manufacturing (they changed the stance a few months after that, never bought LG anymore)

Samsung should repair it, I thought they were the only ones root friendly left on the market…

Vuraniute OP ,
@Vuraniute@thelemmy.club avatar

I thought they were the only ones root friendly left on the market…

Not anymore.

SendMePhotos ,

Yes, they used to be.

dandu3 ,

Samsung isn’t root friendly at all. Most of their phones can’t be bootloader unlocked officially.

The only ones that do are google, moto and the chinese ones

vox ,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

wdym literally all phones can be unlocked without a waiting period, account, internet connection or any other bs (it trips the knox e-fuse tho)
you just go to the settings, enable oem unlock and run fastboot unlock.
it’s as straight forward as it gets and works on all devices that aren’t locked to a carrier or sth (which is mostly an us-exclusive issue)

vox ,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

i was using my older mi play as a router (temporary solution) until we moved and got a proper internet connection. (we were very close to the poland-ukraine border back then and only my old phone was able to pick up vodafone ua’s 4g signal across the border)
it shut itself down multiple times and was constantly turning off the tethering mode due to overheating.

it still has vibrant permanent yellow burn marks on the display around the hot spots and only drains 0.5a while charging no matter what.

AllHailTheSheep ,

you can absolutely do it yourself. be prepared and get the right tools, look up many many guides and videos before you start, but I honestly think it’s doable for someone whose never opened a phone. those batteries are an absolute pain in the ass to remove, but as long as it’s discharged below 20% you really don’t have to worry about it it catching fire or anything catastrophic like you’re lead to believe (just be careful ofc and wear PPE)

Vuraniute OP ,
@Vuraniute@thelemmy.club avatar

Would, but I don’t have the equipment.

chiwiu ,
@chiwiu@lemmy.world avatar

where I live there are shops for laptop, console and phone repairs. I’d keep it simple and go to one of those

WalrusDragonOnABike ,

Been a while since I looked, but last time I checked around me, the starting price for any work like that was like $200 (maybe it was less?). Not exactly worth it for a $300 phone that’s already aging unless you need data off it or something. Granted, YMMV with pricing.

AllHailTheSheep ,

battery replacements usually run around 60-90 at my shop depending on the device, if I ever walked in to a shop and heard 200$ I’d walk tf out that’s insane pricing.

Tak ,
@Tak@lemmy.ml avatar

I replaced the battery in my old Pixel 3a by myself without the tools with iFixit. They shipped me the battery and tools I’d need for like $50 and all I had to do was follow the guide.

smileyhead ,

An ideal phone:

  • Fairphone 4/5 like build
  • Unlocking the bootloader without asking manufacturer for the code
  • Access to the flashing and pairing tools from the factory to eliminate bricking
  • U-boot, Coreboot or similar sane bootloader
  • (Close to) mainline Linux support for the components, to enable “lifetime” updates and OS freedom
  • Optional: headphone jack and SD card slot
Dyskolos ,

What a dream… But sadly it probably won’t happen. They manages to establish this shit as a standard and that’s it.

Imagine PCs would be like that too. Would anyone buy them if they couldn’t install EVERYTHING? Or delete or change system-stuff/-apps? Or just go and install Linux? Or win? Or both?

ReakDuck ,

My battery broke earlier because I installed GrapheneOS and abused speed charging thr entire time at night.

A stock android would slow the battery charge till the first Alarm.

a9cx34udP4ZZ0 ,

If it’s still under warranty, they HAVE to unless they can prove your modification caused the system to fail. It’s no different than the silly stickers that say “warranty void if removed” - that’s a nice fantasy for the manufacturer, but at least in the US it’s been ruled those stickers mean absolutely nothing. If they’re refusing to fix a phone under warranty, contact your local AG and enjoy watching them squirm. Loop in the FTC for good measure.

ftc.gov/…/businesspersons-guide-federal-warranty-…

michael_palmer ,

In Europe, there are unofficial Samsung phones available 15-20% cheaper than from authorized stores. Just consider how often you need warranty repairs. I’ve changed 5-7 phones during my life and haven’t had any problems with them except cracked screens and worn batteries.

lietuva ,

Unroot, lock bootloater and bring it again, lol

Vuraniute OP ,
@Vuraniute@thelemmy.club avatar

Battery died and it doesn’t power on.

BaroqueInMind ,
@BaroqueInMind@kbin.social avatar

Then how the fuck do they know magisk is running on the phone?

imPastaSyndrome ,

They replaced the battery, saw then sent back the broken one?

BaroqueInMind , (edited )
@BaroqueInMind@kbin.social avatar

So someone got payed to wait for the phone to be shipped to them, took the effort to carefully and meticulously disassemble the phone, install the new battery by micro soldering the battery leads to the mainboard, then booted it to see it blew a shitty security fuse but can still boot fine, then took the time and effort to uninstall by removing the micro solder from the battery and mainboard without damaging the phone, just to tell them they can't do it?

imPastaSyndrome ,

I wouldn’t be at ALL surprised

onion ,

Samsung puts fuses in their that blow when you install a different os

eatham ,
@eatham@aussie.zone avatar

Source?

LoveSausage ,

Knox …gadgethacks.com/…/root-almost-any-galaxy-s6-s6-e… tldr; samsung sucks, older phones are possible to bypass on but with caveats such as no OTAs and no custom recovery.

eatham ,
@eatham@aussie.zone avatar

Oh I thought you were talking about a physical fuse lol.

onion ,

It is kinda physical it seems: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFuse

eatham ,
@eatham@aussie.zone avatar

That’s interesting.

Vuraniute OP ,
@Vuraniute@thelemmy.club avatar

Exposition time!

So I took it to the repair while the battery was about to die. Somehow, the battery just started working again (it kinda phased in and out of broken and not broken before dying at the time of posting) so they saw Magisk was installed. Fast Forward to the day I made the post. The phone finally died completely and wouldn’t charge no matter what, but I hadn’t uninstalled Magisk. Meaning I can’t unless its repaired. And if they repair it right now, I won’t have a chance to uninstall Magisk and will be forced to pay for it.

lemmingrad ,

You cannot imagine the lies I had to tell to the people while working for Applecare.

chiliedogg ,

That’s illegal under the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.

Send them a certified letter. Inform them that they need to prove you caused the damage, repair or replace your device, or you’ll be taking them to arbitration.

They generally have to pay for the arbiter, so it’ll be cheaper to just replace your cheap phone even if they win.

INHALE_VEGETABLES ,

He voided his warranty.

Armand1 ,

You can’t void your warranty by rooting your phone. They claim you can, but that’s only their extended warranty, not that statutory one.

sphfaar ,
@sphfaar@lemmy.world avatar

Even in cars it’s the same thing, if you tune it they don’t know where to look since it’s no longer the same, On rooted android you can install things like Advanced Charging Controller to fuck your battery, and many software that manage performance/temperature.

chiliedogg ,

But under the Act, they have to show that what you did caused the malfunction. The burden of proof is on them.

It’s why “warranty void if removed” stickers on products are unenforceable in court.

Dempf , (edited )

Maybe so, but under the Act, the burden is on the company to prove that the modification directly caused the failure in question.

They can’t just deny deny for no reason. But that’s the tactic as consumers are largely unaware of their rights under the law, and they typically get away with it until the FTC sends a bunch of nasty letters telling them that they’re breaking the law. See “warranty void if removed” stickers.

There’s some good discussion of this very issue in this article from a few years back. They touch on the sort of “overclocking” situation that you’re talking about.

vice.com/…/jailbreaking-iphone-rooting-android-do…

In my personal opinion, even a modification that can be used to push the hardware to operate beyond it’s design limits doesn’t inherently void any part of a warranty if it’s not used for that purpose. Let’s think through a few examples.

Does obtaining root on a Windows PC void the hardware warranty since it’s now possible for you to install a kernel driver that lets you overclock?

Does the presence of MSI Afterburner installed on a machine void hardware warranties? Regardless of whether you use it for overclocking or just for graphing and monitoring?

Does installing Linux on a PC that you own void the hardware warranty?

In my mind, the car example is a bit different. I don’t quite know what you mean by “tune”, but I’m going to assume it’s something like ECU remapping. To me, remapping an ECU seems similar to the act of overclocking, since you’re modifying the physical inputs to the engine itself. And I can see how out-of-spec physical inputs could cause irreversible damage to an engine. But that doesn’t mean that every conceivable ECU modification would be grounds to deny a claim for engine failure.

(Disclaimer: I have no experience with ECU remapping so I’m making some assumptions)

As another example, let’s say your car comes with an ECU that has some security mechanisms to prevent reflashing. Could the manufacturer deny a warranty claim on engine failure just because you circumvented the security mechanism? Even if you never remapped the ECU parameters?

What if your ECU fails, and you decide to install a 3rd party ECU. The new ECU has no security mechanism preventing you from reflashing, but the map that it comes with, while provided by the 3rd party, is functionally equivalent to that in the stock ECU. Can the manufacturer deny a warranty claim on an engine failure, just because without the security mechanism you could have reflashed a new map designed for more performance than stock? Even if you didn’t? Could they deny the warranty due to the 3rd party map? Even if physical inputs to the engine stay within safe parameters?

I think you do raise a good point about the logical connection that Samsung could make between the modification (root) and the failure (battery). But the point I’m making is: the legal burden is on them to make that connection, and show how one caused the other.

On the other hand, some of the questions and examples that I raised are admittedly messy, and might not have a clear answer unless tested by a court.

I guess what I’m saying though is: if the cost to seek legal relief here is relatively low (e.g., arbitration or small claims), then if I were OP I would probably go down that route, personally, and make arguments based on Magnuson Moss.

IANAL

Edit: just saw elsewhere that OP lives in Greece. Looks like the legal principles are pretty similar when it comes to warranties in the EU. The burden is still on the manufacturer to show that the modification caused the failure in question.

fsfe.org/news/2023/news-20230807-01.en.html

sphfaar ,
@sphfaar@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, by tuning I meant ECU remapping or installing aftermarket parts.

btw like anything to contest, legal action is only worthwhile if the profit at least covers the lawyer’s fees and the time lost, unfortunately.

NotMyOldRedditName ,

Wait, I knew they usually can’t void it without proof, but that’s NOT the case for an extended warranty add on?

massacre ,

If it’s under warranty, they almost certainly cannot deny the claim for this or really many bullshit reasons manufacturers say like removing a “warranty void” sticker - which is still covered. You can sue in small claims. Check out the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act should you need to prove your point.

ColeSloth ,

If magisk still works like custom stuff in the days of old, settings could very much change battery draw and charge rates that could cause premature wear of a battery.

Vuraniute OP ,
@Vuraniute@thelemmy.club avatar

Hadn’t installed any of that stuff. Just Viper4AndroidFX

ColeSloth ,

I’m sure, but how are they actually supposed to know that? You unlocked your bootloader, installed something like twrp, and obtained root access to jiggle with anything you want at that point. I used to have a lot of fun doing all that type of stuff, but I knew I voided out my warranty doing it unless I could still roll it back to factory and remove root, first. Not to mention dealing with knox.

BeardedGingerWonder ,

Except legally the burden is on Samsung to prove you damaged the battery. They don’t get to say “oh well you could have done xyz, denied”

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

No, it’s not. That’s an impossible standard for the company to hold.

You buy the product under the assessment that you will void the warranty by doing XYZ, if you want that level of access you have made changes that could have damaged the battery and they don’t have the time to grill every wannabe tech douche to make sure they didn’t fuck up the device themselves.

They tell you what you can and can’t do with the product AND still receive support up front, case closed.

BeardedGingerWonder ,

Cool story bro. Now fuck off and learn

c0mbatbag3l ,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Ah yes, a Vice article from 2016. Absolute pinnacle of the understanding of law.

If this had even a shred of truth there would have already been dozens of class action lawsuits from people like OP.

dangblingus ,

You don’t own the phone btw. It’s in the TOS.

grue ,

Stop parroting corporate propaganda.

velvetThunder ,

It sounded to me that they were pointing out how fucked up it is that we don’t even own the hardware we pay for after clicking BUY. At least I would mean that.

grue ,

We do own the hardware we buy. It’s fucked up that corporations keep trying to gaslight us that we don’t, but their delusional claims aren’t actually true.

anarchoilluminati ,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Does Google still void warranty if you install GrapheneOS on a Pixel?

Unreliable ,

Looks like it doesn’t?

anarchoilluminati ,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Very cool, thank you! This is very helpful.

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