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ramble81 ,

I’ve come to the conclusion, people who use vim just continue to do so out of a stubborn sense of pride for finally learning the key combinations.

psycho_driver ,

That’s funny, I feel the same way about Excel users.

techwizrd ,

I am faster, more comfortable, and more productive in Vim. I use the same keybindings in all my editors and IDEs. It’s okay for people to have different preferences.

JustAnotherKay ,

In my case it’s not a sense of pride. I can’t use anything other than Vim because I keep accidentally putting random incantations into my word documents.

“There once was a dduuuZQ:q!”

lemmesay ,
@lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

haha, same. do you use vimium as well?

hakunawazo ,

It’s just convenient that it’s pre-installed on many servers.
So I can use it now everywhere with my stubborn sense of pride for finally learning the key combinations.

Theharpyeagle ,

I honestly learned it just because I hated having to change hand position to use a mouse.

Treachery4524 ,

Can you use a mouse in nano? I always just use the arrow keys, or page up/down and home/end

I mostly use vim but I barely use the jkl; to navigate the document.

catshit_dogfart ,

I just use vi

Is that stupid? It’s all I ever bothered to learn, hasn’t failed me yet. Now I’m not some big time linux guru but I’m a sysadmin and regularly find myself elbow deep in a CLI for stuff.

pixelscript ,

I mean, yeah, kind of. In the same way pilots fly planes out of a stubborn sense of pride for knowing what all the flight deck controls do.

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

The first time I found myself in nano was when testing a distro fifteenor twenty years ago. I had to edit some files and it was the only available editor. The damn thing was a horror to use. I still have no idea who it caters to. I haven’t had to use it since though.

Jean_le_Flambeur ,

Dunno what you used, but nano is literally a text editor that may be simple simple but it just works. Shortcuts are shown to the user, buttons work like you expect them to (arrow keys, ESC, shift, etc)

With vim you open it and if you haven’t read 5pages of doc you won’t even be able to close it again. I see that its useful for power users, but for casuals who just want to edit a config once in a while nano is absolutely the way to go imho

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not that simplle or user friendly when none of the usual shortcuts work. C-a did something completely unexpected.

psycho_driver ,

nano friends rise up!

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Looks like you only got one so far.

ipkpjersi ,

There are dozens of us!

scorp ,

nah you’re wrong

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Why do you all say that? There were no replies when I added mine so that’s why I said what I said.

lemmesay ,
@lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I too use nano.

alias nano=“vi -y”

Mwa ,
@Mwa@thelemmy.club avatar

kwrite and gedit friends rise up :)

pedz ,

How do you use these when you are connecting via SSH? You enable X forwarding?

It’s fine when you have a graphical environment, but what do you do when you dont have one?

Mwa ,
@Mwa@thelemmy.club avatar

ohh yeahh then nano

pedz ,

Sometimes you don’t even have the luxury of nano. Any moderately advanced Linux user should probably learn the basics of vi. Just knowing how to insert text and save it can fix a system that’s stuck in recovery. Even if it’s just to add a comment in front of a line in a config file.

Trantarius ,

When does that even happen? If you have nano installed, wouldn’t it work too?

blazeknave ,

I spent the weekend failing to make my civ mods work, with a thousand lines of notes… 2/3 in, I think “damnit blazeknave. You spend months perfecting this stupid fucking obsidian setup, and you’ve been here in notepad+ like a fucking jabroni.”

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

I do the same all the time with anytype.

I dropped notes into sublime and then go back and put them neatly into any type. I don’t really know why I do it either It takes any type a total of three or four seconds to start up and I have to enter in a passcode. But I only have to do it once. I guess I do have to think about where I’m going to put the document and making sure that it’s tagged correctly, it’s a lot easier just a scribble something into a random text window to forget about for a decade.

bizdelnick ,

Vim (or emacs, or any other advanced text editor) is much easier to use than nano when you need to do something more complex than type couple of lines.

tetris11 ,
@tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

(…once you learn the bindings)

Jean_le_Flambeur ,

Better? Maybe!

More efficient? Surley!

But easier?! Hell no! Easy means you can use it without a lot of training or studying. It is self explanatory. And there is no way on earth that vim is easier than nano. I don’t need to know anything to use nano I need to check docs for hours before I can even start using vim

bizdelnick ,

It is easier after you learn basics. Learning is not easy, but usage is.

Jean_le_Flambeur ,

Well okay by that logic playing Beethoven in piano is super easy

GammaGames ,

A handful of shortcuts isn’t that hard

Fox ,

Right, it’s remembering them and using them efficiently that’s hard. It’s amusing watching coworkers try to flex in vim and then struggle at the most basic tasks.

socsa ,

This makes it seem like jerking off to MILF porn is hard because there is a learning curve

leisesprecher ,

And how often does that happen in the real world?

VIM may have been a very useful tool 20 or 30 years ago, but today it’s nothing else but a tool for one’s sense of superiority. It’s the vinyl of editors.

If you have to type that much code in a terminal, your infrastructure is outdated. Simple as that.

bizdelnick ,

Every day in my case, except holidays.

leisesprecher ,

…so your infrastructure is outdated.

timbuck2themoon ,

Yes it’s so outdated that mostly every IDE offers usage with its keybindings.

Chewt ,

You seem to believe that people only use the terminal if they HAVE to. I doubt anybody these days HAS to type any amount of code in the terminal, but choose to anyway. Like probably anyone else I have access to modern tools and infrastructure, but I choose to do work in the terminal because I’m more productive there. I use (neo)vim because I like it more than any other text editor I’ve used, and have no problem writing code and debugging in the terminal.

leisesprecher ,

You’re using the terminal, because you’re used to it. It is not the better tool, it’s simply what you happen to know already.

People who argue with productivity because of some key bindings live in the world of the 80s. You don’t just sit there and type code 12h a day, that’s not how modern software development works.

And all those blockheads down voting me are caught up in their weird superiority complex. They are the powerful superhackers, and don’t understand that we are just highly qualified plumbers.

Chewt ,

I’m actually fairly young and wasn’t around in the 80s. I graduated college with a CS degree in the past 5 years, where I was exposed to many different tools and software. What did I come out of that experience with? I like the terminal more than any IDE I had to use in any class.

Now in the real world, we don’t always get to use our favorite tools for every task, obviously. I do need to use other, more enterprise, software from time to time for work. But whenever possible I go to the terminal because I’m faster there, and I can quickly automate things.

I’m not saying the terminal is the best tool for every job, I’m just saying it is the best for ME. Notice I’m also not putting down other tools here. It seems to me like you might be the one with a superiority complex.

leisesprecher ,

No, I’d argue you simply didn’t want to invest in the other tools.

Think about it, you probably spent hours on customizing and automating vim, and then say you’re faster in that. Well, that’s called a habit.

IDE are objectively more powerful and since you can actually see options and navigate quickly, you don’t need to memorize every obscure feature.

All the terminal editor enthusiasts are actively holding us back, because they insist everything outside vim is garbage for enterprise and kiddies.

If your tool of choice is actively hostile to new users for no reason other than “that’s how it’s always been, and thus it’s better”, well then you’re digging a moat to automate your gatekeeping.

Theharpyeagle ,

I actually use VIM bindings in PyCharm, slightly cursed but actually works really well and meshes fairly nicely with the other IDE shortcuts. Being able to use it in any terminal is a nice bonus.

havocpants ,

VIM may have been a very useful tool 20 or 30 years ago, but today it’s nothing else but a tool for one’s sense of superiority. It’s the vinyl of editors.

So, because you don’t understand something, it’s outdated?

If you have to type that much code in a terminal, your infrastructure is outdated. Simple as that.

Ok, I can see you have no idea what you’re talking about.

leisesprecher ,

I understand it very well. And that’s exactly why I’m writing this.

Ok, I can see you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Then say, grandmaster delusion, what purpose does vim serve, where it is actually the best tool? Writing code? Hardly, it’s way too limited and requires a ton of upfront investment and headspace. Writing config files? Hardly, because if you write these by hand, you’re living in the 90s, that’s what Ansible, Terraform etc are for.

You just don’t want to admit, that vim is nothing more than a habit. Muscle memory.

PseudoSpock ,
@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

There is always the Joe editor, if you like good ol’ Wordstar. :)

lennivelkant ,

Butterfly gang

MonkderVierte ,

There’s always ed for masochists.

imouto ,

Ed, man! !man ed

The_Zen_Cow_Says_Mu ,

Ed is the standard editor

AeonFelis ,

I just use this:


<span style="color:#323232;">#!/bin/bash
</span><span style="color:#323232;">
</span><span style="color:#323232;">keep_generating=1
</span><span style="color:#323232;">while [[ $keep_generating == 1 ]]; do
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    dd if=/dev/random of=$1 bs=1 count=$2 status=none
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    echo Contents of $1 are:
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    cat $1
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    echo
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    read -p "Try generating again? " -s -n1 answer
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    while true; do
</span><span style="color:#323232;">        case $answer in
</span><span style="color:#323232;">            [Yy] )
</span><span style="color:#323232;">                echo
</span><span style="color:#323232;">                break
</span><span style="color:#323232;">                ;;
</span><span style="color:#323232;">            [Nn] )
</span><span style="color:#323232;">                keep_generating=0
</span><span style="color:#323232;">                break
</span><span style="color:#323232;">                ;;
</span><span style="color:#323232;">            *)
</span><span style="color:#323232;">        esac
</span><span style="color:#323232;">        read -s -n1 answer
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    done
</span><span style="color:#323232;">done
</span>
thevoidzero ,

Just ask if it’s correct. If not destroy the universe. Only The correct will survive, it’s O(1)

AeonFelis ,

What if there is no correct answer?

thevoidzero ,

It’s not fun when you have to explain it. But basically it is based on the infinite multiverse theory. Since the multiverse splits whenever you make choices, in this case the program would spawn a large number of multiverses each with different combinations of those bits, which means at least one of them would have the exactly the combination we want. If the program destroys the multiverse it is in after it determines it is not correct, only reality that remains is the one with correct combination of bytes. Making it that we will get the code we want on the first try.

AeonFelis ,

You are assuming here that I know what I want. What if there is no obviously correct answer, and even in the Everett branch that generates the optimal content for the file I’ll still think it can be improved and tell it to destroy the universe?

thevoidzero ,

I guess yeah. In that condition the algorithm would probably destroy all universe. Although you might be able to set a threshold and not destroy when it is over the threshold.

But situation where you don’t know the answer is not for this algorithm as this one came from sorting problem.

Steamymoomilk ,

Micro is where its @ <3

IndustryStandard ,

Micro for the win

Sonotsugipaa ,
@Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

No, Micro for the linux

PseudoSpock ,
@PseudoSpock@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Nah, win can have it.

Kaput ,

Isn’t this supposed to be VIM vs Emac? What’s is there point to be programming in the terminal anyway? Nano is good to fix some config files while your are in there, but if I needed to do real programming I’ll be finding something that works in the GUI.

Zozano ,
@Zozano@lemy.lol avatar

Did you just say GUI?

More like ewwwie.

deuleb_biezelbob ,
@deuleb_biezelbob@programming.dev avatar

Its GNUI

Zozano ,
@Zozano@lemy.lol avatar

What you’re referring to as GNUI, is in fact GNUI/Linux or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNUI plus Linux.

roguetrick ,

GNUssy

cakeistheanswer ,
@cakeistheanswer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Efficiency.

There’s 0 chance if you have to pick up your mouse that you can keep up with a Unix gray beard.

That’s just editing, if they’re from the emacs era there might be nothing you can do with text faster across their whole system.

I like vscode as a entry point, but if you care to get faster learning just vim motions and sys utils alone is going to cut time from the process.

Kaput ,

Oh it’s about speed. What’s the one that get your brain to be faster at programming? I use 4 fingers typing and am still typing much faster than I can think.

cakeistheanswer , (edited )
@cakeistheanswer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Definitely worth running through vim tutor at least once.

It’s beyond typing speed, things like piping out strings to utilities is using one program to write another, you aren’t just getting faster because of access, it’s a paradigm shift.

Edit just for fun: im a non Dev dummy who happened to grow up in a Unix household. Even having dropped vim for helix and bounced around the MS admin/Apple IT space for 30+ years. When I switched to Linux I could still remember binds I’d set up and last used at 9.

Kinda like riding a bike.

expr ,

It’s speed, but it’s also flow and a continuous stream of thought. If all your editing is being done with muscle memory and minimal thought, you can continue thinking about the problem at hand rather than interrupting your thoughts process to fumble through some context menu to make a change.

corsicanguppy ,

supposed to be VIM vs Emac?

30 years ago it was vi vs everything. I don’t see it changed today.

jmcs ,

Easy is relative. What are you trying to do? Replace a value in an yaml file? Then nano is easier. Trying to refactor a business critical perl/brainfuck polyglot script in production? Then you probably want to use vim (or emacs if you are one of those people)

grysbok ,
@grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Walk someone else through editing a config file on the command-line over screenshare? Nano. Omg nano is your friend.

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