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Fizz ,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

I am enjoying watching vegans battle everyone. Most people are not prepared for a conversation on veganism. Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say. They also have the easier side to argue.

Im not a vegan but I’m not talking shit to a vegan for fear of getting dragged into a veganism debate.

RecluseRamble ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    breakingcups ,

    You replied to the wrong person

    RecluseRamble ,

    Damn, thanks, moved it.

    commie ,

    Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say.

    this doesn’t make them right, and in fact often leads them to use easily debunked but rhetorically impressive arguments. that’s called sophistry.

    Fizz ,
    @Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

    I disagree. The arguments vegans use are far more morally consistent and thought out than non vegans. Non vegans don’t reason themselves into the position and often don’t have a good justification for why they’re not vegan. When they are pushed they fall apart instantly.

    commie ,

    The arguments vegans use are far more morally consistent and thought out than non vegans.

    it’s true that vegans often think far more about the moral arguments around veganism. i, however, find the arguments to be unconvincing, and often sophistic.

    commie ,

    Non vegans don’t reason themselves into the position

    most of the time, maybe. but ex-vegans certainly do, among others.

    mathemachristian ,

    The rhetorically impressive and easily debunked argument:

    A) Slavery of sentient beings is wrong
    B) Animals are sentient
    ∴ Enslaving animals is wrong

    commie ,

    animal agriculture isn’t slavery. i don’t believe even vegans believe this syllogism rings true. if they did, we’d have a lot more harriet tubmans and a lot fewer tash petersons.

    commie ,

    i used a plural. it’s not just one argument. you’re not being very honest about the breadth of the arguments made.

    commie ,

    They also have the easier side to argue.

    no, they don’t

    Fizz ,
    @Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

    Ok what’s the moral justification for eating meat?

    commie ,

    i don’t need one. there is no reason for me to believe it’s immoral. it’s probably amoral.

    naught ,

    Do you think that animals have consciousness? Do they feel pain, fear? Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being? What about 1,000,000 of those beings? Would you butcher a toddler for meat? What about an animal with similar (or more) depth of emotion and cognition than that? Is it okay because they are other species? What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture? What about the impact on climate change? I think there are many valid moral arguments that you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave. I hope you give it some more thought

    commie ,

    Is it moral for you to inflict pain and fear on a conscious being?

    i suppose that depends on circumstances.

    commie ,

    What about the deforestation caused by animal agriculture?

    that’s bad. buying beans doesn’t fix it though.

    naught ,

    This is a strawman. No one is arguing buying beans fixes deforestation. However, if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry. If legume farming was destroying the rainforest, I’d have a problem with that too

    commie ,

    If legume farming was destroying the rainforest,

    turns out, a lot of the the deforested amazon is being used to grow soy.

    commie ,

    if less meat is produced (ie less animals are raised for slaughter), then less deforestation will come as a result of the meat industry.

    but just being vegan doesn’t cause this to happen.

    commie ,

    you are outright dismissing with a mere hand wave.

    i am not. i have been fighting with vegans, primarily on issues of the environment, for i think 8 or 9 years now. i have heard about every argument (though i’m always excited to find a new one!), and i have not been convinced by any of them that i have a duty to be vegan.

    commie ,

    if you have an argument that it is immoral, make it. i don’t care for your interrogative style.

    naught ,

    I like to give people questions to ponder and explore. I think my arguments are very clear from the questions I have raised. Suffering of conscious beings is a negative thing. Particularly the egregious conditions in which we raise our “meat”. This isn’t even considering the horrible conditions that humans suffer working in and around the meat industry.

    joonazan ,

    I think it is funny to make this an ethics discussion when there is plenty of evidence that bacon and sausage cause digestive tract cancers. Meat is also pretty expensive unless heavily subsidized.

    I think the main focus should be on educating people that a healthy diet contains a very small amount of meat even though the meat industry has managed to make people think it should be in every meal.

    Viking_Hippie , (edited )

    Most people are not prepared for interested in a conversation on veganism.

    Vegans have been refining these arguments preaching at people who didn’t ask for a decade now

    and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you as a gleefully evil animal abuser no matter what you have to say.

    They also have the easier side to argue.

    That part is arguably true. Which is all the more reason for evangelical vegans NOT to have to behave like they’re missionaries educating savages every time they manage to trick a non-vegan into engaging with them.

    Dietary choices, religions, and dietary choices treated as if they were a religion are like penises: it’s fine that you have them and it’s super that you enjoy them, but you are not allowed to try to force them on me without my consent.

    JoMiran ,
    @JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

    I follow a plant based diet and agree with just about everything you wrote. I find that hardcore vegans can act like religious zealots yelling at little nine year old girls on the street for wearing a rainbow colored t-shirt.

    muix ,

    Your freedom ends, where the freedom of others begins. Why would that not include animals?

    commie ,

    Why would that not include animals?

    three separate reasons.

    they aren’t people. the don’t participate in our society. tehy don’t respect the freedoms of others.

    Foni ,

    Even flat-earthers have refined their arguments over the years, which doesn’t make them any less stupid. I have zero moral problems with my meat consumption and I’ll debate it with anyone.

    Fizz ,
    @Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

    Flat earth is not at all comparable to Veganism. Vegans don’t need to make up anything to justify their side. They simply care for animals and therefore they don’t eat them.

    I’m not vegan so I’m not taking you up on that debate.

    hemko ,

    Yeah. I do agree with vegans in that humans should transition to a diet that’s more sustainable and removes the animal suffering from the equation - and I do put in some effort to reduce my use of animal based products but: god damnit some people of that community are some seriously insufferable people to converse with

    commie ,

    I am enjoying watching vegans battle everyone. Most people are not prepared for a conversation on veganism.

    I think it is good that they prefer to not have to argue about the validity of their choices, so stay in their own communities. going to c/vegan and being a shit head should be instance-wide bannable (even if it’s temporary). but when they are in other communities they should be respectful of others choices, not sandbag them with sophistry.

    Passerby6497 ,

    going to c/vegan and being a shit head should be instance-wide bannable (even if it’s temporary).

    Are we singling out c/vegan as snowflakes, or are we planning on making being a shithead in communities a banable offence?

    commie ,

    going into a community and being a shithead should be a temporary instance-wide ban, yea. don’t go into c/DBZ and say “funimation sucks. dbz sucks. dragonball sucks. you are a bunch of dumb babies”.

    MapleEngineer , (edited )
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists. No one cares what you eat. You want to eat brown slop and claim its the best thing ever fill your boots. You want a vegan pet, get a rabbit. Just don’t try to shame everyone else into doing what you want and don’t feed a carnivore a vegan diet and no one will say anything.

    Kroxx ,

    Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say

    Lol they fuck they can, they couldn’t even properly present and defend their own sources.

    lemm.ee/comment/14432604

    Jimbo ,
    @Jimbo@yiffit.net avatar

    Yeah I respect vegans, and applaud them for their life choices. I’m not in a position to, or willing at this point to become a vegan, but I looked at their community… Mostly insults when referring to any meat eater. Yeah, I respect them a fair bit less now.

    davepleasebehave ,

    Person who pays for animals to be tortured feels a bit miffed.

    commie ,

    Person who pays for animals to be tortured

    no one does that

    BruceTwarzen ,

    You can keep telling yourself that if it helps.

    commie ,

    if you have evidence to the contrary, you should present it.

    fuckingkangaroos ,

    I’m guessing they mean factory farming

    commie ,

    have you ever paid anyone at a factory farm? i haven’t, and i don’t think most people have.

    commie ,

    in torture, the pain is the point. while i think factory farming is too ambivalent about suffering, i also believe the suffering is only incidental, not intentional. it’s not torture.

    davepleasebehave ,

    perhaps you could explain that subtle difference to the animals going through the system of abuse.

    Im sure it would brighten up their days no end to realise the pain they are experiencing is not the point of the system and that therefore, they are not being tortured.

    commie ,

    perhaps you could explain that subtle difference to the animals

    i don’t think i can, no. but propagandists can choose to stop using emotionally charged and incorrect terms.

    lowleveldata ,

    Yes that’s how you have a conversation. Good job.

    Snowpix ,
    @Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

    Dave, in fact, could not behave and could not resist a personal attack.

    davepleasebehave ,

    is it very personal?

    m3t00 ,
    @m3t00@lemmy.world avatar

    casual drive-by meme;
    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ec882630-1740-428e-a8bc-a3d4c2280fe3.jpeg

    Objection ,

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/cb91c727-4ab8-47c2-b7a9-58423e9de65a.webp

    alcoholicorn ,

    I see a lot more vegan hate than vegans.

    Warl0k3 , (edited )

    They’re easy to hate - They’re weird, eat funny foods, care about things nobody else does (who cares about chickens) and my god is there a subset of them that are the most truly obnoxious human beings (a statement that is, conveniently, true of every single group of humans). They’re basically furries for the non-internet crowd. Nobody ever interacts with them to know it, so they get defined by the strawmen people create of them.

    Edit: It’s possible my explanation of why vegans are disliked has touched a nerve. To clarify; I don’t think this, hell I eat vegan meals most of the time, but these are the qualities given to the Strawman Vegan that everyone onlines seems to love to hate. (I also quite like furries.)

    Ilovethebomb ,

    The cause has been tainted by the extremists, to the point where even some vegans are being pushed away from the movement.

    Of course, the ones that are on a niche media platform, in a community dedicated to veganism, are likely to be the nutter ones.

    Monstrosity ,
    @Monstrosity@lemm.ee avatar

    Yikes. You know, vegans are targeted by the extremely wealthy & powerful meat & dairy industries who spend untold fortunes making the vegan lifestyle look as unappealing and “crazy” as possible?

    I mean, I’m sure you’re galaxy brain is impervious to propaganda and everything, I’m just saying, you’re painting with an awfully broad brush.

    Warl0k3 ,

    I think the cause has been tainted by the rampant propagandizing and demonization across all forms of media that the movement has been subjected to. You’re doing it now, even - what the hell even is an “extremist vegan”?

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    Extreme vegans are the people who stand outside restaurants, grocery stores, butcher shops, etc. and yell at people just trying to go about their lives calling them carnists, corpose munchers, blood mouths, animal torturers, and talk about murdering animals (murder is the killing of one human by another) or eating cadavers (a cadaver is a dead human body.) They don’t simply go about their lives living their best vegan life but harass and harangue people. They do the same thing online.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    I had a pet chicken in elementary school. She was a sweetheart.

    AFC1886VCC ,

    who cares about chickens

    Most people. Anyone who isn’t a psychopath cares to some extent about animals, vegan or non-vegan

    ShinkanTrain ,

    I think it’s funny how quickly the outspoken anti-vegan types deliver the “I actually think it’s ok to torture animals” completely unprompted

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    Can you find me a sample of someone saying, “I actually thing it’s ok to torture animals”? I’d be intersted to see that if it’s actually happening. Or, are you creating a straw man?

    ShinkanTrain ,

    Literally that post’s grandparent, which is the subject of that post?

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    Can you link me to the place where it says these words?

    “I actually think it’s ok to torture animals”

    ShinkanTrain ,

    Your honor, my client never explicitly said the words “I’m requesting a bribe”.

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    This is the reason that people hate vegan extremists.

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    I hate chickens. They’re loud, obnoxious, and they kill and eat each other. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to abuse them. I take good care of my chickens despite the fact that they’re assholes.

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists.

    WarlockLawyer ,

    No one hates vegans, but everyone loves to post vegan hate or idiotic “bacon” posts.

    ShinkanTrain ,

    Of all the delicious meats to be obsessed about, redditbros went and picked one of the least appealing ones and decided to make it their entire personality 💀

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    The vast majority of people love bacon and bacon memes and jokes are part of the mainstream culture. Do you accommodate non-vegans? Why do you expect them to accommodate you?

    HonoraryMancunian ,

    I wish that was true (and I’m not even vegan) but there are many outspoken anti-vegans. But then again they’re the types who will always find an out group to denigrate (in before someone oh-so-cleverly points out I’m doing the same to them).

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    I think that you will find that these anti-vegans are reacting to the behaviour of the extremist.

    HonoraryMancunian ,

    I don’t disagree, but then they’ll apply their hatred to the whole (or at least majority) of the group

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    That, unfortunately, is how it goes. If the only vegans that most people deal with are the obnoxious assholes then they assume that every vegan is an obnoxious asshole.

    Katzastrophe ,
    @Katzastrophe@feddit.org avatar

    My biggest gripe with vegan communities is that a lot of them have an “All or Nothing” mentality, going fully vegan is a luxury not everyone can afford, and yet I find mainly malice when trying to talk about reducing ones own reliance on meat and other animal products in online communities.

    And veganism, if taken to the “no suffering of sentient beings” full extreme, forbids buying things (not just food) produced by slavery. And those things, especially electronics and clothes, are not financially viable for most to be bought without any slavery involved in any step whatsoever.

    pjwestin ,
    @pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean, leaving .world is a pretty fair response. That community is full of insufferable idiots, but an admin overrode their moderating decisions, and then the admin team made up rules to retroactively justify their decision. That’s pretty egregious.

    can ,

    I’m no fan of Lemmy.world but I’m even less of a fan of dead cats.

    pjwestin ,
    @pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, to be clear, you should not feed your cat a Vegan diet. Cats are obligate carnivores. Synthetic Taurine has made vegan catfood somewhat more viable, but cats don’t just need Taurine from prey. They need several vitamins, amino acids, and fatty acids from animal protein to survive. Beyond that, their digestive tract isn’t very efficient at digesting plant matter, so even if these foods have the nutritional value they need, they might not be absorbing it. Also, a lot of these products seem to be made from grains and other carb heavy products, and cats need a very low carb, high protein diet. If you want to completely divest from the meat industry, you simply shouldn’t own a cat.

    That being said, Vegan catfood products are on the market, so whether or not they are good for cats, they have been approved by several regulating bodies. You can claim that they’re unsafe (I certainly do), but having an admin nuke a comment section for claiming otherwise is a huge overreaction. It would be like going into a vape community and banning accounts that claimed vaping is safer than smoking; it probably isn’t, but I don’t need admins deciding who gets to have discourse about that.

    Finally, I’m also not a fan of dead cats, but if you’re dumb enough to take veterinary advice from an internet vegan group, you’re probably too dumb to keep a cat alive anyway.

    Viking_Hippie ,

    Vegan catfood products are on the market, so whether or not they are good for cats, they have been approved by several regulating bodies

    Yeah, that’s not how it works. Especially in countries with extreme regulatory capture like the US.

    Unless a product has text that says in a very specifically worded way that it’s been tested and approved by a relevant regulatory body, it hasn’t.

    The fact that something hasn’t been taken off the market YET does not necessarily mean that it’s been approved. Especially not when you’re dealing with politically volatile stuff that could lead to lengthy public lawsuits sapping the resources of the already chronically underfunded and understaffed agencies.

    If it’s vegan food for obligate carnivores, it MIGHT technically be “safe” (as in won’t be outright lethal), but for the reasons you yourself mentioned, it’s likely to significantly decrease the animal’s enjoyment of life at best and more likely to be downright torturous.

    It would be like going into a vape community and banning accounts that claimed vaping is safer than smoking

    Except for the fact that those accounts would be absolutely right and have reams of scientific evidence from the world’s foremost experts in related fields to back up their claims. Unlike the people abusing cats in the name of not abusing animals.

    it probably isn’t

    It is. It’s not even anywhere near the next city over from the neighborhood of close.

    but I don’t need admins deciding who gets to have discourse about that

    Except limiting the spread of dangerous misinformation, such as common myths that are keeping smokers away from one of if not THE most effective smoking cessation tool, is a big part of what admins are FOR.

    if you’re dumb enough to take veterinary advice from an internet vegan group, you’re probably too dumb to keep a cat alive anyway

    Yeah…that’s not a valid argument either. A lot of vegans avoid getting a cat because they’re too overzealous in their veganism to even want carnivorous animals to eat meat.

    The Venn diagram of people vegan enough to love carnivores but refuse to give them meat and people who would trust a vegan online echo chamber more than competent veterinarians is a circle within a bigger circle.

    WarlockLawyer ,

    What if we raise them in a factory farm and eat them instead? Don’t worry though. We will force feed them a carnivore diet in their tiny cages

    Trainguyrom ,

    Bruh. This is why I don’t like folks from vegan communities. So full of misinformation and vitriol regarding farming practices. Dead, malnourished and diseased cattle are worthless to a farmer, so they intentionally don’t keep them in conditions like these crazies describe.

    That said I am trying to cut down on my meat consumption because meat production is more climate intensive than vegetables, and my diet is not as vegetable-heavy as it should be. But you folks make it so hard to feel good about making positive changes like that

    unexposedhazard ,

    If thats true then everyone should probably start leaving .world. If they cant even behave themselves with something as simple as veganism, then you cant trust them to not powertrip with actually controversial political issues.

    alcoholicorn ,

    you cant trust them to not powertrip with actually controversial political issues.

    I mean they “preemptively defederated hexbear as a last resort” for fear they might discuss politics, so that ship has sailed.

    SkyezOpen ,

    Shush tankie.

    pjwestin ,
    @pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

    Maybe, but this seems like a problem that’s bigger than a single instance. A few months back someone came with some pretty good receipts showing .ml admins going after people for having some very fair and moderate criticisms of China. Seems like most instances either have power tripping mods or are too small to have much activity.

    can ,

    The issues with dot ml and dot world are hardly comparable. I’ve had my concerns with some of the world admin actions (flip-flopping, lack of communication) but I do believe they are trying in good faith. I’m still happy to be registered and to make my communities elsewhere but for now I don’t see them as being nearly as egregious as ml.

    Stovetop ,

    I like and admire vegans.

    I probably should be vegan because I am lucky enough to have the economic privilege to support that kind of lifestyle.

    But, as with many other communities centered around lifestyle topics, I would never want to participate in a vegan community. Lifestyle communities always become insular and echo-chambery, so you become a pariah if you don’t properly adhere to 100% of the community consensus behaviors.

    Not just vegans, but you see it happen with fitness communities, diy/home decor, a lot of hobbies, etc.

    mathemachristian ,

    Abstaining from animal murder and torture is admirable and something I should do OTOH some internet commenters are mean about it

    I wonder why they would be mean…

    mogoh ,

    @Stovetop did not say nor implied that he/she is not vegan, because of the community.

    mathemachristian ,

    I probably should be vegan … But … I would never want to participate in a vegan community.

    Seems pretty clear to me.

    Skua ,

    You can take part in something without taking part in the community about that thing, though. I play guitar a lot, but I don't frequent any guitar-based communities

    mathemachristian ,

    I’m fully aware, but “I’m not going vegan because they’re so annoying” is a pretty common excuse.

    DampSquid ,

    It is a common excuse. And yet you’re still being really annoying.

    mathemachristian ,

    Sorry for not being nicer to bloodmouths. Wouldst thou please ent’rtain the notion of not enslaving sentient beings?

    Tar_alcaran ,

    But blood is tasty…

    zalgotext ,

    Yeah that isn’t what they said though

    PeriodicallyPedantic ,

    Take the L dude.

    Not only is that clearly not the reason in this case, of what you say is true (and I believe it considering your behavior) that’s a pretty damning indictment about your collective personalities.

    Youre blaming OTHERS for leaving your cause because YOU’RE impossible to put up with. Pathetic. The literal definition of that meme where the dude puts the stick into his bike spokes and then cries about it.

    If you hate non-vegans so much then stop talking to them. Simple as.

    mathemachristian ,

    Im saying if someone stops being vegan because of what people say they dont actually hold the moral conviction that torture, rape and murder of any animal is wrong. I’m not crying about others leavinge “the cause” Im angry at the smugness and how readily people will accept any excuse in order to keep the literal orphan crushing machine going.

    PeriodicallyPedantic ,

    You’re a poison and you’re surprised people didn’t wanna get near you.

    You’re even getting mad at people who say that veganism is good and they want to work towards it.

    You’re pathetic.

    Passerby6497 ,

    Then you need to go back to school for reading comprehension, because being a vegan and participating in a community about veganism are not the same thing, not even remotely close.

    mathemachristian ,

    and yet that seems to be the stated reason…

    Passerby6497 ,

    Only because you’re inferring a lot from a couple comments. You don’t know why they aren’t vegan (which could be for any number of reasons), the only thing you know, and are basing your entire assumptions on, is that they don’t want to hang out in spaces full of insufferable vegans.

    Aurenkin ,

    Only if you have poor reading comprehension.

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    Good job! This is the comment that made them turn vegan! Mission accomplished!

    mathemachristian , (edited )

    If your belief lives or dies because of some internet comment it won’t last anyway.

    Edit: as in, what sustains it is the actual moral implications of a non-vegan lifestyle. I was convinced to go vegan by internet comments like this.

    prettybunnys ,

    See here’s what’s really really funny, people over and over again say “man if the vegan people who were trying to convince me could just not be gigantic assholes about it then maybe it would be easier to join their community”

    And then you come along and are a gigantic asshole about it and prove the entire point.

    Super solid representation, 5/7, perfection.

    mathemachristian ,

    If you need people to be nice to you to convince you, you care more about appearances than the argument. If people being rude stops you from acting on something you actually believe in you won’t last a month as a vegan.

    Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

    The first lesson every vegan needs to learn is: there are no rewards and no one will compliment you. You are doing this out of your own conviction and not for anyone else.

    prettybunnys ,

    Well this has been great, thanks for being the point.

    mathemachristian ,

    good talk nice representation, really convinced me to be nicer to corpsemunchers going forward.

    gamermanh ,
    @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Hey, asshole, you’ve been an idiot the whole time on top of being a huge asshole

    The person didn’t say “Id go vegan but they’re assholes”, they said they’d not participate in a community with you dumbasses because of the behaviour people like you participate in

    Also your insults suck and make people sound cool as fuck

    mathemachristian ,

    Hey maybe if you people would be NICER to me I would entertain the thought that I was in the wrong

    gamermanh ,
    @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Not being an asshole to people is the default behaviour, to be dropped when someone breaks the social contract and does not uphold their end

    I get that your parents didn’t teach you basic manners but that’s not our job either. Learn how not to be a bitter piece of shit or be forever considered a perfect and pathetic example of OPs point

    mathemachristian ,

    well you just arent going to convince me by being rude you have to ask me nicely and maybe Ill think about it

    Snowpix ,
    @Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

    mathemachristian is a Hexbearite, them being an asshole isn’t at all surprising.

    commie ,

    while i think you are actually starting to violate community rules here, i just wanna say i think your conduct up to this point has been fine.

    Mjpasta710 ,

    You’re a breatharian? No corpse munching from you.

    Are you pure enough that you feed the bacteria in your body without suffering?

    benignintervention ,

    This is precisely the circlejerking mentioned in the meme. Whether true or not, the community presents itself as unwelcoming and self-aggrandizing. These are not traits that easily convince people to listen to the cause.

    mathemachristian ,

    There’s nothing to listen to, either you believe animal ag is horrendous and unethical and act on it or you don’t. That’s it. No pretty pleases are going to convince someone they have to give up their beloved steak and cheese for nothing in return.

    benignintervention ,

    Then why are you trying so hard to explain yourself?

    naught ,

    Why are you so smug while plugging your ears and kicking your feet? Would you kill the animals you eat with your own two hands? I doubt that most would. We’re so far removed from the horrific violence of the industry and so inundated with farmed meat that people don’t even register what it actually is anymore. This isn’t even to mention that animal meat is carcinogenic, particularly in the amounts we eat. We don’t have a problem with people being anti-smoking or anti-violence, but as soon as “loud annoying” vegan asks you to reflect on the environment, people’s health, or the nightmarish violence we inflict on farmed animals, it’s absolute pandemonium from the meat eaters.

    IMO most don’t/won’t want to deal with the cognitive dissonance.

    benignintervention ,

    Sorry, I’m not going to participate if you’re going to be abusive.

    naught ,

    Abusive? 😂 I accept your apology.

    RedAggroBest ,

    asks

    That word is doing some heavy lifting. What does asking look like to you?

    naught ,

    What’s more apt? Demand? I literally never see a “militant” vegan emerge anywhere unless in a thread like this which demonizes a (diverse) group of people for giving a shit about animals and this planet. I think that most people who give thought to this problem will eventually realize that they aren’t primal hunters capable of taking the life of animals, let alone a new animal or more every day.

    Aphelion ,

    Right, we get it, but if you tried attracting people to veganism with amazing recipes, and annecdotes of how much healthier you feel, people might come have a conversation and try making some vegan food. Instead these communities drive anyone non-vegan right out the door.

    What’s the expression? Honey will catch more flies?

    commie ,

    Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

    this should be on a billboard.

    cheddar ,
    @cheddar@programming.dev avatar

    That’s not the goal. They attack people because that makes them feel better. Animals? Who cares. Definitely not them.

    jdr ,

    I’m a cow and this made me feel better about my fate

    BeigeAgenda ,
    @BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m just keeping an eye out for good recipes.

    ShinkanTrain ,

    Just don’t interact with communities you dislike. It’s a pretty bad excuse to blame other people for your decisions.

    ngwoo ,

    so you become a pariah if you don’t properly adhere to 100% of the community consensus behaviors.

    You don’t pocket mulch?!

    prettybunnys ,

    I’m a level 5

    Ilovethebomb ,

    Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    I had a look at the community yesterday, every post bar one was about vegan cat food for the last week. They’re not taking this well at all.

    RecluseRamble ,

    I just had a look myself after your comment and cannot confirm your claim at all. There are, understandably, quite a few posts about this debacle and the future of their sub but more than half is stuff related to veganism not related to cats.

    Emmie , (edited )
    @Emmie@lemmings.world avatar

    Cats can thrive on vegan diets perfectly well. Mine is still with me since like 4 years and didn’t eat a single animal protein in that time…

    It’s called being a responsible human and minimizing suffering.

    PeriodicallyPedantic ,

    Isn’t this something that the fediverse was explicitly designed to support?
    We’re making fun of them for making use of one of the foundational features of the platform?

    If they don’t like it there, they can move again. And again. Or host their own instance.

    Idk what this creepy vicarious butthurt is about, or why it has become so popular.

    WarlockLawyer ,

    Circle jerking against vegans is a pasttime of the Internet denizens

    PeriodicallyPedantic ,

    Yeah, but it’s a pretty pathetic passtime. At least find a good reason, rather than doing literally the thing you want them to do.

    Like, insulting them for leaving is just as bad as them crying that their toxic behavior scares people away. It makes no sense.

    ShinkanTrain ,

    It’s just disguised metadrama. They joined the instances this instance doesn’t like.

    PeriodicallyPedantic ,

    And so they’re moving, and somehow y’all are… Upset about it??? Make it make sense

    TachyonTele ,

    I don’t see anyone upset about it.
    Making fun of them, yes. But not upset.

    JadenSmith ,

    I’m actually rather thankful for this entire drama, or rather my cats are.
    I was ‘this’ close to forgetting some ham for their once in a while treat. Thanks, /c/vegan!

    Bakersfield ,
    @Bakersfield@lemmy.world avatar

    Did they move to .ml or hexbear?

    mathemachristian ,

    Both already had a vegan community and hexbear is vegan by default (carnists need to tag their post if it contains meat, dairy etc.)

    prettybunnys ,

    Lots of othering happening by commentators promoting to be vegan, is othering a core principle of veganism?

    naught ,

    I may be wrong, but I think that veganism is about not exploiting/eating sentient creatures

    prettybunnys ,

    So the aggressive othering is just something done for fun?

    naught ,

    You might feel othered because you are different, but I for one wish all animals feel nothing but acceptance and peace (including you)

    prettybunnys ,

    Oh bless your heart my sweet summer child.

    naught ,

    Are you othering me?

    Roflmasterbigpimp OP ,
    @Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world avatar

    Both and more

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/014159cd-0b0e-43c0-b8b9-e0cf4bf2577d.png

    Bakersfield ,
    @Bakersfield@lemmy.world avatar

    “[…] well moderated and run.”

    LOL!

    cheddar ,
    @cheddar@programming.dev avatar

    Vegans and transsexuals turning to fascists is one of the things that I’ll never understand.

    ShinkanTrain ,

    transsexuals

    This is exactly why trans people flocked to a community that actually respects them.

    AFC1886VCC ,

    .world is the biggest circlejerk instance of all.

    B312 ,

    Wish I knew this a little sooner

    ShinkanTrain ,

    What’s keeping you?

    B312 ,

    I have been trying to make an account on a fediverse instance for so long and it not working each time I made an account. It finally decided to work recently when I made this account

    peopleproblems ,

    Isn’t it a rule if they stop acting superior they lose their vegan card and superpowers?

    archonet ,

    “oh no, the vegans are leaving!” said no-one ever

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