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AFC1886VCC ,

.world is the biggest circlejerk instance of all.

B312 ,

Wish I knew this a little sooner

Jimbo ,
@Jimbo@yiffit.net avatar

Yeah I respect vegans, and applaud them for their life choices. I’m not in a position to, or willing at this point to become a vegan, but I looked at their community… Mostly insults when referring to any meat eater. Yeah, I respect them a fair bit less now.

peopleproblems ,

Isn’t it a rule if they stop acting superior they lose their vegan card and superpowers?

Bakersfield ,
@Bakersfield@lemmy.world avatar

Did they move to .ml or hexbear?

mathemachristian ,

Both already had a vegan community and hexbear is vegan by default (carnists need to tag their post if it contains meat, dairy etc.)

prettybunnys ,

Lots of othering happening by commentators promoting to be vegan, is othering a core principle of veganism?

Roflmasterbigpimp OP ,
@Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world avatar

Both and more

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/014159cd-0b0e-43c0-b8b9-e0cf4bf2577d.png

Bakersfield ,
@Bakersfield@lemmy.world avatar

“[…] well moderated and run.”

LOL!

cheddar ,
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

Vegans and transsexuals turning to fascists is one of the things that I’ll never understand.

archonet ,

“oh no, the vegans are leaving!” said no-one ever

Stovetop ,

I like and admire vegans.

I probably should be vegan because I am lucky enough to have the economic privilege to support that kind of lifestyle.

But, as with many other communities centered around lifestyle topics, I would never want to participate in a vegan community. Lifestyle communities always become insular and echo-chambery, so you become a pariah if you don’t properly adhere to 100% of the community consensus behaviors.

Not just vegans, but you see it happen with fitness communities, diy/home decor, a lot of hobbies, etc.

mathemachristian ,

Abstaining from animal murder and torture is admirable and something I should do OTOH some internet commenters are mean about it

I wonder why they would be mean…

mogoh ,

@Stovetop did not say nor implied that he/she is not vegan, because of the community.

mathemachristian ,

I probably should be vegan … But … I would never want to participate in a vegan community.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Skua ,

You can take part in something without taking part in the community about that thing, though. I play guitar a lot, but I don't frequent any guitar-based communities

mathemachristian ,

I’m fully aware, but “I’m not going vegan because they’re so annoying” is a pretty common excuse.

DampSquid ,

It is a common excuse. And yet you’re still being really annoying.

mathemachristian ,

Sorry for not being nicer to bloodmouths. Wouldst thou please ent’rtain the notion of not enslaving sentient beings?

zalgotext ,

Yeah that isn’t what they said though

Passerby6497 ,

Then you need to go back to school for reading comprehension, because being a vegan and participating in a community about veganism are not the same thing, not even remotely close.

mathemachristian ,

and yet that seems to be the stated reason…

Passerby6497 ,

Only because you’re inferring a lot from a couple comments. You don’t know why they aren’t vegan (which could be for any number of reasons), the only thing you know, and are basing your entire assumptions on, is that they don’t want to hang out in spaces full of insufferable vegans.

Aurenkin ,

Only if you have poor reading comprehension.

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Good job! This is the comment that made them turn vegan! Mission accomplished!

mathemachristian , (edited )

If your belief lives or dies because of some internet comment it won’t last anyway.

Edit: as in, what sustains it is the actual moral implications of a non-vegan lifestyle. I was convinced to go vegan by internet comments like this.

prettybunnys ,

See here’s what’s really really funny, people over and over again say “man if the vegan people who were trying to convince me could just not be gigantic assholes about it then maybe it would be easier to join their community”

And then you come along and are a gigantic asshole about it and prove the entire point.

Super solid representation, 5/7, perfection.

mathemachristian ,

If you need people to be nice to you to convince you, you care more about appearances than the argument. If people being rude stops you from acting on something you actually believe in you won’t last a month as a vegan.

Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

The first lesson every vegan needs to learn is: there are no rewards and no one will compliment you. You are doing this out of your own conviction and not for anyone else.

prettybunnys ,

Well this has been great, thanks for being the point.

mathemachristian ,

good talk nice representation, really convinced me to be nicer to corpsemunchers going forward.

gamermanh ,
@gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Hey, asshole, you’ve been an idiot the whole time on top of being a huge asshole

The person didn’t say “Id go vegan but they’re assholes”, they said they’d not participate in a community with you dumbasses because of the behaviour people like you participate in

Also your insults suck and make people sound cool as fuck

commie ,

while i think you are actually starting to violate community rules here, i just wanna say i think your conduct up to this point has been fine.

benignintervention ,

This is precisely the circlejerking mentioned in the meme. Whether true or not, the community presents itself as unwelcoming and self-aggrandizing. These are not traits that easily convince people to listen to the cause.

mathemachristian ,

There’s nothing to listen to, either you believe animal ag is horrendous and unethical and act on it or you don’t. That’s it. No pretty pleases are going to convince someone they have to give up their beloved steak and cheese for nothing in return.

benignintervention ,

Then why are you trying so hard to explain yourself?

commie ,

Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

this should be on a billboard.

cheddar ,
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

That’s not the goal. They attack people because that makes them feel better. Animals? Who cares. Definitely not them.

BeigeAgenda ,
@BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca avatar

I’m just keeping an eye out for good recipes.

ShinkanTrain ,

Just don’t interact with communities you dislike. It’s a pretty bad excuse to blame other people for your decisions.

pjwestin ,
@pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, leaving .world is a pretty fair response. That community is full of insufferable idiots, but an admin overrode their moderating decisions, and then the admin team made up rules to retroactively justify their decision. That’s pretty egregious.

can ,

I’m no fan of Lemmy.world but I’m even less of a fan of dead cats.

pjwestin ,
@pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, to be clear, you should not feed your cat a Vegan diet. Cats are obligate carnivores. Synthetic Taurine has made vegan catfood somewhat more viable, but cats don’t just need Taurine from prey. They need several vitamins, amino acids, and fatty acids from animal protein to survive. Beyond that, their digestive tract isn’t very efficient at digesting plant matter, so even if these foods have the nutritional value they need, they might not be absorbing it. Also, a lot of these products seem to be made from grains and other carb heavy products, and cats need a very low carb, high protein diet. If you want to completely divest from the meat industry, you simply shouldn’t own a cat.

That being said, Vegan catfood products are on the market, so whether or not they are good for cats, they have been approved by several regulating bodies. You can claim that they’re unsafe (I certainly do), but having an admin nuke a comment section for claiming otherwise is a huge overreaction. It would be like going into a vape community and banning accounts that claimed vaping is safer than smoking; it probably isn’t, but I don’t need admins deciding who gets to have discourse about that.

Finally, I’m also not a fan of dead cats, but if you’re dumb enough to take veterinary advice from an internet vegan group, you’re probably too dumb to keep a cat alive anyway.

Viking_Hippie ,

Vegan catfood products are on the market, so whether or not they are good for cats, they have been approved by several regulating bodies

Yeah, that’s not how it works. Especially in countries with extreme regulatory capture like the US.

Unless a product has text that says in a very specifically worded way that it’s been tested and approved by a relevant regulatory body, it hasn’t.

The fact that something hasn’t been taken off the market YET does not necessarily mean that it’s been approved. Especially not when you’re dealing with politically volatile stuff that could lead to lengthy public lawsuits sapping the resources of the already chronically underfunded and understaffed agencies.

If it’s vegan food for obligate carnivores, it MIGHT technically be “safe” (as in won’t be outright lethal), but for the reasons you yourself mentioned, it’s likely to significantly decrease the animal’s enjoyment of life at best and more likely to be downright torturous.

It would be like going into a vape community and banning accounts that claimed vaping is safer than smoking

Except for the fact that those accounts would be absolutely right and have reams of scientific evidence from the world’s foremost experts in related fields to back up their claims. Unlike the people abusing cats in the name of not abusing animals.

it probably isn’t

It is. It’s not even anywhere near the next city over from the neighborhood of close.

but I don’t need admins deciding who gets to have discourse about that

Except limiting the spread of dangerous misinformation, such as common myths that are keeping smokers away from one of if not THE most effective smoking cessation tool, is a big part of what admins are FOR.

if you’re dumb enough to take veterinary advice from an internet vegan group, you’re probably too dumb to keep a cat alive anyway

Yeah…that’s not a valid argument either. A lot of vegans avoid getting a cat because they’re too overzealous in their veganism to even want carnivorous animals to eat meat.

The Venn diagram of people vegan enough to love carnivores but refuse to give them meat and people who would trust a vegan online echo chamber more than competent veterinarians is a circle within a bigger circle.

unexposedhazard ,

If thats true then everyone should probably start leaving .world. If they cant even behave themselves with something as simple as veganism, then you cant trust them to not powertrip with actually controversial political issues.

alcoholicorn ,

you cant trust them to not powertrip with actually controversial political issues.

I mean they “preemptively defederated hexbear as a last resort” for fear they might discuss politics, so that ship has sailed.

SkyezOpen ,

Shush tankie.

pjwestin ,
@pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe, but this seems like a problem that’s bigger than a single instance. A few months back someone came with some pretty good receipts showing .ml admins going after people for having some very fair and moderate criticisms of China. Seems like most instances either have power tripping mods or are too small to have much activity.

can ,

The issues with dot ml and dot world are hardly comparable. I’ve had my concerns with some of the world admin actions (flip-flopping, lack of communication) but I do believe they are trying in good faith. I’m still happy to be registered and to make my communities elsewhere but for now I don’t see them as being nearly as egregious as ml.

Fizz ,
@Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

I am enjoying watching vegans battle everyone. Most people are not prepared for a conversation on veganism. Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say. They also have the easier side to argue.

Im not a vegan but I’m not talking shit to a vegan for fear of getting dragged into a veganism debate.

RecluseRamble ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    breakingcups ,

    You replied to the wrong person

    RecluseRamble ,

    Damn, thanks, moved it.

    commie ,

    Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say.

    this doesn’t make them right, and in fact often leads them to use easily debunked but rhetorically impressive arguments. that’s called sophistry.

    Fizz ,
    @Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

    I disagree. The arguments vegans use are far more morally consistent and thought out than non vegans. Non vegans don’t reason themselves into the position and often don’t have a good justification for why they’re not vegan. When they are pushed they fall apart instantly.

    commie ,

    The arguments vegans use are far more morally consistent and thought out than non vegans.

    it’s true that vegans often think far more about the moral arguments around veganism. i, however, find the arguments to be unconvincing, and often sophistic.

    commie ,

    Non vegans don’t reason themselves into the position

    most of the time, maybe. but ex-vegans certainly do, among others.

    mathemachristian ,

    The rhetorically impressive and easily debunked argument:

    A) Slavery of sentient beings is wrong
    B) Animals are sentient
    ∴ Enslaving animals is wrong

    commie ,

    animal agriculture isn’t slavery. i don’t believe even vegans believe this syllogism rings true. if they did, we’d have a lot more harriet tubmans and a lot fewer tash petersons.

    commie ,

    i used a plural. it’s not just one argument. you’re not being very honest about the breadth of the arguments made.

    commie ,

    They also have the easier side to argue.

    no, they don’t

    Fizz ,
    @Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

    Ok what’s the moral justification for eating meat?

    commie ,

    i don’t need one. there is no reason for me to believe it’s immoral. it’s probably amoral.

    Viking_Hippie , (edited )

    Most people are not prepared for interested in a conversation on veganism.

    Vegans have been refining these arguments preaching at people who didn’t ask for a decade now

    and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you as a gleefully evil animal abuser no matter what you have to say.

    They also have the easier side to argue.

    That part is arguably true. Which is all the more reason for evangelical vegans NOT to have to behave like they’re missionaries educating savages every time they manage to trick a non-vegan into engaging with them.

    Dietary choices, religions, and dietary choices treated as if they were a religion are like penises: it’s fine that you have them and it’s super that you enjoy them, but you are not allowed to try to force them on me without my consent.

    JoMiran ,
    @JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

    I follow a plant based diet and agree with just about everything you wrote. I find that hardcore vegans can act like religious zealots yelling at little nine year old girls on the street for wearing a rainbow colored t-shirt.

    muix ,

    Your freedom ends, where the freedom of others begins. Why would that not include animals?

    commie ,

    Why would that not include animals?

    three separate reasons.

    they aren’t people. the don’t participate in our society. tehy don’t respect the freedoms of others.

    Foni ,

    Even flat-earthers have refined their arguments over the years, which doesn’t make them any less stupid. I have zero moral problems with my meat consumption and I’ll debate it with anyone.

    Fizz ,
    @Fizz@lemmy.nz avatar

    Flat earth is not at all comparable to Veganism. Vegans don’t need to make up anything to justify their side. They simply care for animals and therefore they don’t eat them.

    I’m not vegan so I’m not taking you up on that debate.

    hemko ,

    Yeah. I do agree with vegans in that humans should transition to a diet that’s more sustainable and removes the animal suffering from the equation - and I do put in some effort to reduce my use of animal based products but: god damnit some people of that community are some seriously insufferable people to converse with

    commie ,

    I am enjoying watching vegans battle everyone. Most people are not prepared for a conversation on veganism.

    I think it is good that they prefer to not have to argue about the validity of their choices, so stay in their own communities. going to c/vegan and being a shit head should be instance-wide bannable (even if it’s temporary). but when they are in other communities they should be respectful of others choices, not sandbag them with sophistry.

    Passerby6497 ,

    going to c/vegan and being a shit head should be instance-wide bannable (even if it’s temporary).

    Are we singling out c/vegan as snowflakes, or are we planning on making being a shithead in communities a banable offence?

    commie ,

    going into a community and being a shithead should be a temporary instance-wide ban, yea. don’t go into c/DBZ and say “funimation sucks. dbz sucks. dragonball sucks. you are a bunch of dumb babies”.

    MapleEngineer , (edited )
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists. No one cares what you eat. You want to eat brown slop and claim its the best thing ever fill your boots. You want a vegan pet, get a rabbit. Just don’t try to shame everyone else into doing what you want and don’t feed a carnivore a vegan diet and no one will say anything.

    Ilovethebomb ,

    Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    I had a look at the community yesterday, every post bar one was about vegan cat food for the last week. They’re not taking this well at all.

    RecluseRamble ,

    I just had a look myself after your comment and cannot confirm your claim at all. There are, understandably, quite a few posts about this debacle and the future of their sub but more than half is stuff related to veganism not related to cats.

    alcoholicorn ,

    I see a lot more vegan hate than vegans.

    Warl0k3 , (edited )

    They’re easy to hate - They’re weird, eat funny foods, care about things nobody else does (who cares about chickens) and my god is there a subset of them that are the most truly obnoxious human beings (a statement that is, conveniently, true of every single group of humans). They’re basically furries for the non-internet crowd. Nobody ever interacts with them to know it, so they get defined by the strawmen people create of them.

    Ilovethebomb ,

    The cause has been tainted by the extremists, to the point where even some vegans are being pushed away from the movement.

    Of course, the ones that are on a niche media platform, in a community dedicated to veganism, are likely to be the nutter ones.

    Monstrosity ,
    @Monstrosity@lemm.ee avatar

    Yikes. You know, vegans are targeted by the extremely wealthy & powerful meat & dairy industries who spend untold fortunes making the vegan lifestyle look as unappealing and “crazy” as possible?

    I mean, I’m sure you’re galaxy brain is impervious to propaganda and everything, I’m just saying, you’re painting with an awfully broad brush.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    I had a pet chicken in elementary school. She was a sweetheart.

    AFC1886VCC ,

    who cares about chickens

    Most people. Anyone who isn’t a psychopath cares to some extent about animals, vegan or non-vegan

    MapleEngineer ,
    @MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    No one hates vegans. Almost everyone hates vegan extremists.

    m3t00 ,
    @m3t00@lemmy.world avatar

    casual drive-by meme;
    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ec882630-1740-428e-a8bc-a3d4c2280fe3.jpeg

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